The big Coronavirus thread
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I have noticed in France that big corporate chains like Decathlon and McDonald's have been able to enforce a mask rule whereas smaller shops have been afraid of losing clients. I went to McDonald's on the way back from holiday. It was like a maze and no matter where you went you were in the wrong 'zone'.ddraver said:
A lot of people in France had abandoned wearing masks in shops a few weeks back, and those that were, were almost always the reusable fabric ("cool") masks. I think countries handling this sensibly allow a certain amount of leeway to allow people to settle in to what they think is reasonable.TheBigBean said:
It's a shame reusable ones didn't get used or approved.kingstongraham said:
I'm not complaining about paying what was needed, but if we hadn't had a shortage, we wouldn't have needed to spend so much in a hurry when prices were highest. Would have been ridiculous to not buy them when needed given the money being thrown out everywhere.TheBigBean said:
Nothing useful. I have noted that the same people who were complaining about the shortage are now complaining abut the cost.rjsterry said:Anyone seen anything that has got to the bottom of the £15bn for PPE supply?
I saw an article saying that France were using 45 million masks a week, so several billion items of PPE sounds reasonable for the UK to fulfill demand and rebuild a stockpile.
And France will be in a similar situation having burnt a billion masks.
donc, c'etait dans une Zone Vert...0 -
Claire Cohen in the Telegraph- https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/09/astonished-had-covid-19-without-symptoms/
'For two weeks in March I’d had a cough'
'Turns out, I’m likely one of the two-thirds of asymptomatic people identified by the ONS this week, for whom coronavirus comes and goes unnoticed.'0 -
If you had a two week cough when everyone was talking about persistent coughs can you really be said to be asymptomatic, or just ignoring your mild symptoms.nickice said:Claire Cohen in the Telegraph- https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/09/astonished-had-covid-19-without-symptoms/
'For two weeks in March I’d had a cough'
'Turns out, I’m likely one of the two-thirds of asymptomatic people identified by the ONS this week, for whom coronavirus comes and goes unnoticed.'1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition1 -
Eh I actually posted it because I found it quite amusing for that exact reason. She did then say that her two-week cough 'wasn't persistent'.rjsterry said:
If you had a two week cough when everyone was talking about persistent coughs can you really be said to be asymptomatic, or just ignoring your mild symptoms.nickice said:Claire Cohen in the Telegraph- https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/09/astonished-had-covid-19-without-symptoms/
'For two weeks in March I’d had a cough'
'Turns out, I’m likely one of the two-thirds of asymptomatic people identified by the ONS this week, for whom coronavirus comes and goes unnoticed.'0 -
I'm struggling a bit today. 😕nickice said:
Eh I actually posted it because I found it quite amusing for that exact reason. She did then say that her two-week cough 'wasn't persistent'.rjsterry said:
If you had a two week cough when everyone was talking about persistent coughs can you really be said to be asymptomatic, or just ignoring your mild symptoms.nickice said:Claire Cohen in the Telegraph- https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/07/09/astonished-had-covid-19-without-symptoms/
'For two weeks in March I’d had a cough'
'Turns out, I’m likely one of the two-thirds of asymptomatic people identified by the ONS this week, for whom coronavirus comes and goes unnoticed.'1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition1 -
Try again in the right thread..."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0
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And all it took was Sunak getting some bad press for not wearing one 😀
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you haven't read it yet state "odd for a paper with New York in its name to ignore the more local example"TheBigBean said:
it required me to register to read which is a step too far. I know it is a national paper, but it seemed odd for a paper with New York in its name to ignore the more local example. Call it whataboutery if it makes you happy.rick_chasey said:
Sure.TheBigBean said:
If Sweden is a cautionary tale, what's New York?rick_chasey said:https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/07/business/sweden-economy-coronavirus.html
NY Times on "Sweden Has Become the World’s Cautionary Tale"This is what has happened: Not only have thousands more people died than in neighboring countries that imposed lockdowns, but Sweden’s economy has fared little better.
“They literally gained nothing,” said Jacob F. Kirkegaard, a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics in Washington. “It’s a self-inflicted wound, and they have no economic gains.”
Now, I appreciate I have a horse in this, but I guess it's worth reitterating.Here is one takeaway with potentially universal import: It is simplistic to portray government actions such as quarantines as the cause of economic damage. The real culprit is the virus itself.
ie. Pandemics Depress the Economy, Public Health Interventions Do Not
I mean, I know you're a fan of pointing out whataboutery...
What's wrong with the reasoning in the article?
as someone who reads it daily, i know that the nyt has never ignored the local situationmy bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny0 -
The US has just said 'fuck it'
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
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More information on T-Cell immune response (some of the replies are more informative than the video)
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Isn't he about as resoected As Corbyns brother ? Lots of claims that he's lied about ?0
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Well that's a bit grim.
https://metro.co.uk/2020/07/11/young-man-died-coronavirus-trying-catch-covid-party-prove-was-hoax-12976195/amp/?__twitter_impression=true1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/12/immunity-to-covid-19-could-be-lost-in-months-uk-study-suggests
If this is true then it puts a rather big hole in “herd immunity”0 -
Means I can catch it again before I'm over the last bout? Fuck.
Given the Sikora bit above about T cells, there's still hope, but as it's early days still, I'm erring on the side of caution regarding putting myself in situations with a relatively increased risk.0 -
From the article:
Prof Jonathan Heeney, a virologist at the University of Cambridge, said the study confirmed a growing body of evidence that immunity to Covid-19 is short-lived. “Most importantly, it puts another nail in the coffin of the dangerous concept of herd immunity,” he said.
“I cannot underscore how important it is that the public understands that getting infected by this virus is not a good thing. Some of the public, especially the youth, have become somewhat cavalier about getting infected, thinking that they would contribute to herd immunity. Not only will they place themselves at risk, and others, by getting infected, and losing immunity, they may even put themselves at greater risk of more severe lung disease if they get infected again in the years to come.”
For you, Coopster.0 -
Two points(keeping it simple as it is you):rick_chasey said:From the article:
Prof Jonathan Heeney, a virologist at the University of Cambridge, said the study confirmed a growing body of evidence that immunity to Covid-19 is short-lived. “Most importantly, it puts another nail in the coffin of the dangerous concept of herd immunity,” he said.
“I cannot underscore how important it is that the public understands that getting infected by this virus is not a good thing. Some of the public, especially the youth, have become somewhat cavalier about getting infected, thinking that they would contribute to herd immunity. Not only will they place themselves at risk, and others, by getting infected, and losing immunity, they may even put themselves at greater risk of more severe lung disease if they get infected again in the years to come.”
For you, Coopster.
1) If this is true, any vaccine is going to be equally as impotent. I'll leave you to think about how that will affect you but it means you won't be leaving your house again for the rest of your miserable life.
2) Anti-body immunity has been known to be short-lived for a while now. Anti-bodies have a half-life of about 3 weeks which is where this knowledge has come from. However, memory T-Cells seem to carry better long term immunity, and while they won't stop you getting infected again, the infection will have less, in any symptoms.
It goes back to my original approach, we can't beat this without significant medical advancement, which is not on the horizon, so just have to live with it. So the intentional trashing of the economy and huge govt spending has all been a waste.2 -
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There was a professor on the news just now talking about. He said it isn't unusual with viruses for antibodies to reduce over time and therefore for those who had more mild infections to lose immunity.rick_chasey said:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/12/immunity-to-covid-19-could-be-lost-in-months-uk-study-suggests
If this is true then it puts a rather big hole in “herd immunity”0 -
Which is why the 'herd immunity' "the dead will be dead anyway" approach was always wrong.Pross said:
There was a professor on the news just now talking about. He said it isn't unusual with viruses for antibodies to reduce over time and therefore for those who had more mild infections to lose immunity.rick_chasey said:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/12/immunity-to-covid-19-could-be-lost-in-months-uk-study-suggests
If this is true then it puts a rather big hole in “herd immunity”0 -
Take out the "herd immunity" bit, and the logic still stands for those who think it's more essential to carry on with normal life without any changes.rick_chasey said:
Which is why the 'herd immunity' "the dead will be dead anyway" approach was always wrong.Pross said:
There was a professor on the news just now talking about. He said it isn't unusual with viruses for antibodies to reduce over time and therefore for those who had more mild infections to lose immunity.rick_chasey said:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/12/immunity-to-covid-19-could-be-lost-in-months-uk-study-suggests
If this is true then it puts a rather big hole in “herd immunity”0 -
The problem is that most people don't want to get it, so the disease has already changed behaviours.kingstongraham said:
Take out the "herd immunity" bit, and the logic still stands for those who think it's more essential to carry on with normal life without any changes.rick_chasey said:
Which is why the 'herd immunity' "the dead will be dead anyway" approach was always wrong.Pross said:
There was a professor on the news just now talking about. He said it isn't unusual with viruses for antibodies to reduce over time and therefore for those who had more mild infections to lose immunity.rick_chasey said:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jul/12/immunity-to-covid-19-could-be-lost-in-months-uk-study-suggests
If this is true then it puts a rather big hole in “herd immunity”
You can't just pretend it's not there. People won't and aren't doing that.
It's a curious over-statement of what governments are doing. They are following this virus and the societal response to it. They are not leading it.0 -
I don't like the way he expresses it but Coopster is right. If antibodies don't last long then a vaccine will not be effective. His case has always been 'there's not much we can do about it so we should continue as close to normal as possible'. This supports that case more than it does yours.rick_chasey said:Ah, sorry.
I forgot the reading comprehension is lacking.
There is a strong possibility that even if the antibodies don't last a reinfection would be more akin to the common cold. Yes, it does mean herd immunity is not possible but it also means that this virus is coming for everyone so we might as well just accept it.
What was the lack of reading comprehension on his part?1 -
Coopster's position has been that we need to protect the vulnerable while getting on with establishing herd immunity in the rest of the population during the summer, so we can get back to normal. Without herd immunity that doesn't really work.nickice said:
I don't like the way he expresses it but Coopster is right. If antibodies don't last long then a vaccine will not be effective. His case has always been 'there's not much we can do about it so we should continue as close to normal as possible'. This supports that case more than it does yours.rick_chasey said:Ah, sorry.
I forgot the reading comprehension is lacking.
There is a strong possibility that even if the antibodies don't last a reinfection would be more akin to the common cold. Yes, it does mean herd immunity is not possible but it also means that this virus is coming for everyone so we might as well just accept it.
What was the lack of reading comprehension on his part?
I don't understand why vaccines giving immunity lasting a few months would be useless? Can someone explain?0 -
kingstongraham said:
Coopster's position has been that we need to protect the vulnerable while getting on with establishing herd immunity in the rest of the population during the summer, so we can get back to normal. Without herd immunity that doesn't really work.nickice said:
I don't like the way he expresses it but Coopster is right. If antibodies don't last long then a vaccine will not be effective. His case has always been 'there's not much we can do about it so we should continue as close to normal as possible'. This supports that case more than it does yours.rick_chasey said:Ah, sorry.
I forgot the reading comprehension is lacking.
There is a strong possibility that even if the antibodies don't last a reinfection would be more akin to the common cold. Yes, it does mean herd immunity is not possible but it also means that this virus is coming for everyone so we might as well just accept it.
What was the lack of reading comprehension on his part?
I don't understand why vaccines giving immunity lasting a few months would be useless? Can someone explain?
I think Coopster's position is probably survival of the fittest but he wanted to protect the vulnerable in order to make it more palatable.
Do you mean that people could have regular boosters? I suppose that could work and there's always the evidence that even though the macaques in the Oxford trial still became infected, they had a very mild version of the disease. So, although it won't stop infection it will help with symptoms. However, even a cold-causing coronavirus can have a high fatality rate in a care home.
The other problem is that vaccines are not particularly effective in older members of the population and these are the people who, generally, tend to suffer the most.
If reinfection is a possibility (maybe in a few months or years) herd immunity from vaccination is not possible unless it's 100% compulsory and is repeated every few months (or however long antibodies last) and I doubt many people will agree with that especially as it's asymptomatic in most people.0 -
It is a sliding scale of practicality. If it lasts a year then getting the population inoculated once a year is clearly possible because we do this with flu. If it lasts two months then we need to inoculate the population 6 times a year again possibly doable but likely expensive. If it lasts a month or a couple of weeks then I will let you think about the logic of that.kingstongraham said:
Coopster's position has been that we need to protect the vulnerable while getting on with establishing herd immunity in the rest of the population during the summer, so we can get back to normal. Without herd immunity that doesn't really work.nickice said:
I don't like the way he expresses it but Coopster is right. If antibodies don't last long then a vaccine will not be effective. His case has always been 'there's not much we can do about it so we should continue as close to normal as possible'. This supports that case more than it does yours.rick_chasey said:Ah, sorry.
I forgot the reading comprehension is lacking.
There is a strong possibility that even if the antibodies don't last a reinfection would be more akin to the common cold. Yes, it does mean herd immunity is not possible but it also means that this virus is coming for everyone so we might as well just accept it.
What was the lack of reading comprehension on his part?
I don't understand why vaccines giving immunity lasting a few months would be useless? Can someone explain?
This is before we compare who gets a flu jab versus who might need to get a covid jab as if it is everyone then the above numbers just got more difficult. Public health is all just a numbers game to try to achieve the best outcome with a fixed amount of money that a population will bear through general taxation. Those that think the pot is endless don't live in the real world.1 -
The T-cell stuff is a lot more positive. I still find it interesting why the virus seems to be dying out in London.0
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But if those of us who have already had it get exposed to it naturally every few months, couldn't that potentially boost the immunity without major symptoms? Those who are at risk get vaccinated with boosters when needed.0
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Booked a holiday yet?“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0
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