The big Coronavirus thread

kingstongraham · July 2020

tailwindhome said:
Booked a holiday yet?

Had to rebook after some flight cancellations, but still got a booking for end of August to go to France. Very low key though, and cancelled my Pyrenees portion of the trip due to no cycling.

coopster_the_1st · July 2020

tailwindhome said:
Booked a holiday yet?

10 weeks and counting.

I'm not confident the January holiday will go ahead.

Both abroad

rick_chasey · July 2020

TheBigBean said:
The T-cell stuff is a lot more positive. I still find it interesting why the virus seems to be dying out in London.

I don't know about this stuff, but wasn't T cell stuff always going to be there.

I mean, I thought the whole point with the virus in the people who were getting really ill was that they didn't have enough anti-bodies to stop the virus spreading, so then the T-cells ended up attacking anything and everything. Hence the "Cytokine Storm"??

TheBigBean · July 2020

kingstongraham said:
But if those of us who have already had it get exposed to it naturally every few months, couldn't that potentially boost the immunity without major symptoms? Those who are at risk get vaccinated with boosters when needed.

I posted in the other corona thread that it would be highly unusual for a virus to be worse the second time around - only Dengue fever seems to be in this camp, and a lot of studies have gone into why this is. Therefore, I find it a bit frustrating when people talk about how immunity may be lost as a justification for anything. It reminds me very much of the face mask discussion in March - people claiming that it was silly to wear them because they weren't 100% effective.

TheBigBean · July 2020

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:
The T-cell stuff is a lot more positive. I still find it interesting why the virus seems to be dying out in London.
I don't know about this stuff, but wasn't T cell stuff always going to be there.

I mean, I thought the whole point with the virus in the people who were getting really ill was that they didn't have enough anti-bodies to stop the virus spreading, so then the T-cells ended up attacking anything and everything. Hence the "Cytokine Storm"??

I don't have much of an understanding, but I thought the T-cells were the first line of defence, so if somebody's T-cells do the job, they don't need antibodies. Even if you do need the antibodies the T-cells still develop protection for the future and then remember for a lot longer, so see study that 100% of people with SARS have the T-cells to fight C-19.

So if 20% of London has the antibodies it might be the case that another 40% has the T-cells, and herd immunity has been reached.

I still haven't heard a satisfactory explanation as to why kids don't get it / suffer with it. I don't really buy the one about them having so many colds they are used to fighting it as that doesn't apply to newborns.

rick_chasey · July 2020

Fair enough. I could full well be getting it totally wrong.

briantrumpet · July 2020

tailwindhome said:
Booked a holiday yet?

Driving to my house in SE France for 6 weeks. Normally I'd fly/train.bus, but not ready for that yet, so booked ferry/Eurotunnel a couple of days ago. Given how quickly the Eurotunnel prices went up between when I first looked and a couple of days after that, I'd guess that plenty of people are planning French getaways.

pblakeney · July 2020

tailwindhome said:
Booked a holiday yet?

Booked up north in September by when there will hopefully be a sense of normality, but before the predicted second wave. Fingers crossed on the weather.
Not considering booking flights until after the winter to see how flights/companies come out of this.

ddraver · July 2020

tailwindhome said:
Booked a holiday yet?

Getting bored typing it, so I'm sure you're bored of reading it but the situation is really quite strikingly better abroad than the UK.

Go for it!!

I notice Easyjet Flights to Geneva this month are bloomin' expensive all of a sudden so people are heading out...

tailwindhome · July 2020

I'm becoming less convinced about the Eat Out Help Out scheme.

TheBigBean · July 2020

For those going abroad for their holidays, what is your travel insurance plan with regard to C-19?

rjsterry · July 2020

A useful thread on the current state of understanding on immune response to SARS-CoV-2.

https://twitter.com/BallouxFrancois/status/1277885591376535553?s=19

rjsterry · July 2020

TheBigBean said:

tailwindhome said:
Booked a holiday yet?
No. Turns out it is tough to holiday in the UK.

Really? We just rang up our usual place in East Devon.

pblakeney · July 2020

CoverForYou insurance that I have actually sent out an email saying that they had specifically added 100% cover for all C-19 related impact. Which was nice.

TheBigBean · July 2020

pblakeney said:
CoverForYou insurance that I have actually sent out an email saying that they had specifically added 100% cover for all C-19 related impact. Which was nice.

Mine wrote to me in March to say it was a known event and now specifically excluded.

TheBigBean · July 2020

rjsterry said:

TheBigBean said:

tailwindhome said:
Booked a holiday yet?
No. Turns out it is tough to holiday in the UK.

Really? We just rang up our usual place in East Devon.

I have no experience of how to do it. A brief search seemed to find that most things were either (i) expensive (e.g. £1k/week) (ii) fully booked (iii) not all that desirable (e.g. a flat in a town).

I would be delighted to hear if you have a recommendation in East Devon. Sounds nice. Perhaps a PM if you have time.

kingstongraham · July 2020

My insurance says "If you catch Coronavirus or require medical treatment whilst away, then yes cover will be in place for emergency and necessary treatment, so long as you have not travelled against FCO advice."

It also says "Unfortunately, the policy will not provide cover for cancellation in the event that the Foreign and Commonwealth Office have advised against travel."

So they wouldn't have paid out for anything that we needed to cancel, but all the providers have paid back anyway.

ballysmate · July 2020

tailwindhome said:
Booked a holiday yet?

Already had 2 cancelled but still have Almeria and Madeira to come. Not that confident tbh.
Last week I booked for Fuerteventura in January.
If you don't book you can't go can you?
Worst case scenario cancellation and a refund.

surrey_commuter · July 2020

TheBigBean said:

rjsterry said:

TheBigBean said:

tailwindhome said:
Booked a holiday yet?
No. Turns out it is tough to holiday in the UK.

Really? We just rang up our usual place in East Devon.
I have no experience of how to do it. A brief search seemed to find that most things were either (i) expensive (e.g. £1k/week) (ii) fully booked (iii) not all that desirable (e.g. a flat in a town).

I would be delighted to hear if you have a recommendation in East Devon. Sounds nice. Perhaps a PM if you have time.

holidaying in the UK is not cheap, like most things you get what you pay for so ficus on what you really want.

Check out the Isle of wight is cheaper and closer than Devon and feels like you have gone somewhere because you get on a ferry. North side is expensive as that is where the yachties are.

pblakeney · July 2020

TheBigBean said:

rjsterry said:

TheBigBean said:

tailwindhome said:
Booked a holiday yet?
No. Turns out it is tough to holiday in the UK.

Really? We just rang up our usual place in East Devon.
I have no experience of how to do it. A brief search seemed to find that most things were either (i) expensive (e.g. £1k/week) (ii) fully booked (iii) not all that desirable (e.g. a flat in a town).

I would be delighted to hear if you have a recommendation in East Devon. Sounds nice. Perhaps a PM if you have time.

This is precisely why people went abroad. Why would you risk the weather when the Med will often be cheaper, better weather, and nicer if you pick location carefully.
Captive market for the foreseeable assuming flights are difficult and/or expensive.

TheBigBean · July 2020

surrey_commuter said:

TheBigBean said:

rjsterry said:

TheBigBean said:

tailwindhome said:
Booked a holiday yet?
No. Turns out it is tough to holiday in the UK.

Really? We just rang up our usual place in East Devon.
I have no experience of how to do it. A brief search seemed to find that most things were either (i) expensive (e.g. £1k/week) (ii) fully booked (iii) not all that desirable (e.g. a flat in a town).

I would be delighted to hear if you have a recommendation in East Devon. Sounds nice. Perhaps a PM if you have time.
holidaying in the UK is not cheap, like most things you get what you pay for so ficus on what you really want.

Check out the Isle of wight is cheaper and closer than Devon and feels like you have gone somewhere because you get on a ferry. North side is expensive as that is where the yachties are.

Thanks for the tip. The Isle of Wight is also good for the car free as the train/boat combo is nice, but obviously not so good for the socially distant.

It's one for the unpopular opinions thread, but holidaying in Europe is so overrated.

Pross · July 2020

john80 said:

kingstongraham said:

nickice said:

rick_chasey said:
Ah, sorry.

I forgot the reading comprehension is lacking.
I don't like the way he expresses it but Coopster is right. If antibodies don't last long then a vaccine will not be effective. His case has always been 'there's not much we can do about it so we should continue as close to normal as possible'. This supports that case more than it does yours.

There is a strong possibility that even if the antibodies don't last a reinfection would be more akin to the common cold. Yes, it does mean herd immunity is not possible but it also means that this virus is coming for everyone so we might as well just accept it.

What was the lack of reading comprehension on his part?
Coopster's position has been that we need to protect the vulnerable while getting on with establishing herd immunity in the rest of the population during the summer, so we can get back to normal. Without herd immunity that doesn't really work.

I don't understand why vaccines giving immunity lasting a few months would be useless? Can someone explain?
It is a sliding scale of practicality. If it lasts a year then getting the population inoculated once a year is clearly possible because we do this with flu. If it lasts two months then we need to inoculate the population 6 times a year again possibly doable but likely expensive. If it lasts a month or a couple of weeks then I will let you think about the logic of that.

This is before we compare who gets a flu jab versus who might need to get a covid jab as if it is everyone then the above numbers just got more difficult. Public health is all just a numbers game to try to achieve the best outcome with a fixed amount of money that a population will bear through general taxation. Those that think the pot is endless don't live in the real world.

You could still do it annually and it would substantially cut the risk of transference surely? If you spread the annual vaccine throughout the year and it lasted 2 months then a sixth of the population would be immune at any given time. A flu vaccine doesn't provide immunity for a full year (I think it's about 6 months) so is given when the risk of catching it is highest.

surrey_commuter · July 2020

TheBigBean said:

surrey_commuter said:

TheBigBean said:

rjsterry said:

TheBigBean said:

tailwindhome said:
Booked a holiday yet?
No. Turns out it is tough to holiday in the UK.

Really? We just rang up our usual place in East Devon.
I have no experience of how to do it. A brief search seemed to find that most things were either (i) expensive (e.g. £1k/week) (ii) fully booked (iii) not all that desirable (e.g. a flat in a town).

I would be delighted to hear if you have a recommendation in East Devon. Sounds nice. Perhaps a PM if you have time.
holidaying in the UK is not cheap, like most things you get what you pay for so ficus on what you really want.

Check out the Isle of wight is cheaper and closer than Devon and feels like you have gone somewhere because you get on a ferry. North side is expensive as that is where the yachties are.
Thanks for the tip. The Isle of Wight is also good for the car free as the train/boat combo is nice, but obviously not so good for the socially distant.

It's one for the unpopular opinions thread, but holidaying in Europe is so overrated.

you might be surprised how empty the trains are, I went on a commuter time train and it was virtually empty
sit outside on the ferry

rjsterry · July 2020

TheBigBean said:

rjsterry said:

TheBigBean said:

tailwindhome said:
Booked a holiday yet?
No. Turns out it is tough to holiday in the UK.

Really? We just rang up our usual place in East Devon.
I have no experience of how to do it. A brief search seemed to find that most things were either (i) expensive (e.g. £1k/week) (ii) fully booked (iii) not all that desirable (e.g. a flat in a town).

I would be delighted to hear if you have a recommendation in East Devon. Sounds nice. Perhaps a PM if you have time.

PM'd you.

rick_chasey · July 2020

TheBigBean said:

surrey_commuter said:

TheBigBean said:

rjsterry said:

TheBigBean said:

tailwindhome said:
Booked a holiday yet?
No. Turns out it is tough to holiday in the UK.

Really? We just rang up our usual place in East Devon.
I have no experience of how to do it. A brief search seemed to find that most things were either (i) expensive (e.g. £1k/week) (ii) fully booked (iii) not all that desirable (e.g. a flat in a town).

I would be delighted to hear if you have a recommendation in East Devon. Sounds nice. Perhaps a PM if you have time.
holidaying in the UK is not cheap, like most things you get what you pay for so ficus on what you really want.

Check out the Isle of wight is cheaper and closer than Devon and feels like you have gone somewhere because you get on a ferry. North side is expensive as that is where the yachties are.
Thanks for the tip. The Isle of Wight is also good for the car free as the train/boat combo is nice, but obviously not so good for the socially distant.

It's one for the unpopular opinions thread, but holidaying in Europe is so overrated.

Isle of white is wall-to-wall chins however, so if you don't like rubbing up against them, figuratively, it might not be so great.

capt_slog · July 2020

rick_chasey said:

Isle of white is wall-to-wall chins however, so if you don't like rubbing up against them, figuratively, it might not be so great.

A new one on me, who or what are they?

rick_chasey · July 2020

Is the sort of vibe.

Think posh boarding school types who say “jah” a lot

blazing_saddles · July 2020

ballysmate said:

tailwindhome said:
Booked a holiday yet?
Already had 2 cancelled but still have Almeria and Madeira to come. Not that confident tbh.
Last week I booked for Fuerteventura in January.
If you don't book you can't go can you?
Worst case scenario cancellation and a refund.

Same for me. One holiday in Mallorca lost, but re-book for June, next year.
One in the pipeline to Mallorca towards the end of September, with next september already sorted.

Also looking towards the Canaries in January. Seem to be some decent deals about.

2 conflicting points re-immunity.

1) Isn't it likely that if someone has had C19, their immune system would recognised the virus and likely produce the required antibodies?
Heard it mentioned today again that as yet, nobody who has had it, has had it again as a bad dose.

2) If immunity is short lived and a vaccine found, isn't it likely that repeated vaccines could trigger a variant or lose potency?
The same reason why repeated antibiotic prescriptions are warned against.

coopster_the_1st · July 2020

blazing_saddles said:

ballysmate said:

tailwindhome said:
Booked a holiday yet?
Already had 2 cancelled but still have Almeria and Madeira to come. Not that confident tbh.
Last week I booked for Fuerteventura in January.
If you don't book you can't go can you?
Worst case scenario cancellation and a refund.
Same for me. One holiday in Mallorca lost, but re-book for June, next year.
One in the pipeline to Mallorca towards the end of September, with next september already sorted.

Also looking towards the Canaries in January. Seem to be some decent deals about.

2 conflicting points re-immunity.

1) Isn't it likely that if someone has had C19, their immune system would recognised the virus and likely produce the required antibodies?
Heard it mentioned today again that as yet, nobody who has had it, has had it again as a bad dose.

2) If immunity is short lived and a vaccine found, isn't it likely that repeated vaccines could trigger a variant or lose potency?
The same reason why repeated antibiotic prescriptions are warned against.

1) Current understanding is this is down to memory T-Cells triggering the memory B-Cells to produce the required anti-bodies. The anti-bodies will still have the 3 week half-life as they do now.

nickice · July 2020

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:
The T-cell stuff is a lot more positive. I still find it interesting why the virus seems to be dying out in London.
I don't know about this stuff, but wasn't T cell stuff always going to be there.

I mean, I thought the whole point with the virus in the people who were getting really ill was that they didn't have enough anti-bodies to stop the virus spreading, so then the T-cells ended up attacking anything and everything. Hence the "Cytokine Storm"??
I don't have much of an understanding, but I thought the T-cells were the first line of defence, so if somebody's T-cells do the job, they don't need antibodies. Even if you do need the antibodies the T-cells still develop protection for the future and then remember for a lot longer, so see study that 100% of people with SARS have the T-cells to fight C-19.

So if 20% of London has the antibodies it might be the case that another 40% has the T-cells, and herd immunity has been reached.

I still haven't heard a satisfactory explanation as to why kids don't get it / suffer with it. I don't really buy the one about them having so many colds they are used to fighting it as that doesn't apply to newborns.

It's been a long time since I studies it but I don't think the T cells stop you getting it, it just means it's very mild.

The big Coronavirus thread

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