The big Coronavirus thread

TheBigBean

It will be interesting to see what happens in Melbourne and Hong Kong.

First.Aspect

rick_chasey said:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/07/why-covid-death-rate-down/613945/

COVID-19 Cases Are Rising, So Why Are Deaths Flatlining?
The gap between soaring cases and falling deaths is being weaponized by the right to claim a hollow victory in the face of shameless failure. What’s really going on?

The gap between spiking cases and falling-then-flatlining deaths has become the latest partisan flashpoint.

What is going on.

Interesting article. There are a lot of potential positives, mainly the hospitalisation death rate. But the potential long term health legacy is worrying.

rick_chasey

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/07/why-covid-death-rate-down/613945/

COVID-19 Cases Are Rising, So Why Are Deaths Flatlining?
The gap between soaring cases and falling deaths is being weaponized by the right to claim a hollow victory in the face of shameless failure. What’s really going on?

The gap between spiking cases and falling-then-flatlining deaths has become the latest partisan flashpoint.

What is going on.

Interesting article. There are a lot of potential positives, mainly the hospitalisation death rate. But the potential long term health legacy is worrying.

I find the politicisation of the stats remarkable.

First.Aspect

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/07/why-covid-death-rate-down/613945/

COVID-19 Cases Are Rising, So Why Are Deaths Flatlining?
The gap between soaring cases and falling deaths is being weaponized by the right to claim a hollow victory in the face of shameless failure. What’s really going on?

The gap between spiking cases and falling-then-flatlining deaths has become the latest partisan flashpoint.

What is going on.

Interesting article. There are a lot of potential positives, mainly the hospitalisation death rate. But the potential long term health legacy is worrying.

I find the politicisation of the stats remarkable.

I barely noticed. Is it so different to this thread?

rick_chasey

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/07/why-covid-death-rate-down/613945/

COVID-19 Cases Are Rising, So Why Are Deaths Flatlining?
The gap between soaring cases and falling deaths is being weaponized by the right to claim a hollow victory in the face of shameless failure. What’s really going on?

The gap between spiking cases and falling-then-flatlining deaths has become the latest partisan flashpoint.

What is going on.

Interesting article. There are a lot of potential positives, mainly the hospitalisation death rate. But the potential long term health legacy is worrying.

I find the politicisation of the stats remarkable.

I barely noticed. Is it so different to this thread?

Probably not.

Stevo_666

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

First.Aspect said:

rick_chasey said:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/07/why-covid-death-rate-down/613945/

COVID-19 Cases Are Rising, So Why Are Deaths Flatlining?
The gap between soaring cases and falling deaths is being weaponized by the right to claim a hollow victory in the face of shameless failure. What’s really going on?

The gap between spiking cases and falling-then-flatlining deaths has become the latest partisan flashpoint.

What is going on.

Interesting article. There are a lot of potential positives, mainly the hospitalisation death rate. But the potential long term health legacy is worrying.

I find the politicisation of the stats remarkable.

I barely noticed. Is it so different to this thread?

That's exactly what has been happening for most of this thread. I'm very surprised that Rick finds it remarkable.

rick_chasey

Well on that note, what's the upside to the UK opting out of the EU coronavirus vaccine programme?

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

Well on that note, what's the upside to the UK opting out of the EU coronavirus vaccine programme?

I was wondering how long it would take for you to post that!

The article I read had a reasonable explanation.

rick_chasey

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

Well on that note, what's the upside to the UK opting out of the EU coronavirus vaccine programme?

I was wondering how long it would take for you to post that!

The article I read had a reasonable explanation.

...which was?

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

Well on that note, what's the upside to the UK opting out of the EU coronavirus vaccine programme?

I was wondering how long it would take for you to post that!

The article I read had a reasonable explanation.

...which was?

The UK would have no say over volumes or pricing as it is not in the EU. The UK has seen no evidence of buyer power as most pharmaceuticals are offering everything at the same price to everyone, so the UK sees limited upside.

Of the vaccines in development, two are in the UK and one and a half are in the EU, but the two in the UK are way ahead of the other EU's ones. By participating in the deal, the UK would be volume capped on the two being generated in the UK without any say.

Overall therefore, the only way the UK would do well out of the deal would be if the two vaccines in the UK fail, all the others in the world also fail and one of the EU ones succeeds. Then UK would miss out on some guaranteed volume.

TheBigBean

Mexico is not having a good time at the moment.

rick_chasey

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

Well on that note, what's the upside to the UK opting out of the EU coronavirus vaccine programme?

I was wondering how long it would take for you to post that!

The article I read had a reasonable explanation.

...which was?

The UK would have no say over volumes or pricing as it is not in the EU. The UK has seen no evidence of buyer power as most pharmaceuticals are offering everything at the same price to everyone, so the UK sees limited upside.

Of the vaccines in development, two are in the UK and one and a half are in the EU, but the two in the UK are way ahead of the other EU's ones. By participating in the deal, the UK would be volume capped on the two being generated in the UK without any say.

Overall therefore, the only way the UK would do well out of the deal would be if the two vaccines in the UK fail, all the others in the world also fail and one of the EU ones succeeds. Then UK would miss out on some guaranteed volume.

So, honest question, why would anyone be part of the EU scheme?

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

Well on that note, what's the upside to the UK opting out of the EU coronavirus vaccine programme?

I was wondering how long it would take for you to post that!

The article I read had a reasonable explanation.

...which was?

The UK would have no say over volumes or pricing as it is not in the EU. The UK has seen no evidence of buyer power as most pharmaceuticals are offering everything at the same price to everyone, so the UK sees limited upside.

Of the vaccines in development, two are in the UK and one and a half are in the EU, but the two in the UK are way ahead of the other EU's ones. By participating in the deal, the UK would be volume capped on the two being generated in the UK without any say.

Overall therefore, the only way the UK would do well out of the deal would be if the two vaccines in the UK fail, all the others in the world also fail and one of the EU ones succeeds. Then UK would miss out on some guaranteed volume.

So, honest question, why would anyone be part of the EU scheme?

If a country is in the EU (so has a say), is not developing its own vaccine and believes in buyer power, then it would make sense.

rick_chasey

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

Well on that note, what's the upside to the UK opting out of the EU coronavirus vaccine programme?

I was wondering how long it would take for you to post that!

The article I read had a reasonable explanation.

...which was?

The UK would have no say over volumes or pricing as it is not in the EU. The UK has seen no evidence of buyer power as most pharmaceuticals are offering everything at the same price to everyone, so the UK sees limited upside.

Of the vaccines in development, two are in the UK and one and a half are in the EU, but the two in the UK are way ahead of the other EU's ones. By participating in the deal, the UK would be volume capped on the two being generated in the UK without any say.

Overall therefore, the only way the UK would do well out of the deal would be if the two vaccines in the UK fail, all the others in the world also fail and one of the EU ones succeeds. Then UK would miss out on some guaranteed volume.

So, honest question, why would anyone be part of the EU scheme?

If a country is in the EU (so has a say), is not developing its own vaccine and believes in buyer power, then it would make sense.

Hmm. Seems an odd way to incentivise nations to develop vaccines. Doesn't quite add up to me.

coopster_the_1st

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

Well on that note, what's the upside to the UK opting out of the EU coronavirus vaccine programme?

I was wondering how long it would take for you to post that!

The article I read had a reasonable explanation.

...which was?

The UK would have no say over volumes or pricing as it is not in the EU. The UK has seen no evidence of buyer power as most pharmaceuticals are offering everything at the same price to everyone, so the UK sees limited upside.

Of the vaccines in development, two are in the UK and one and a half are in the EU, but the two in the UK are way ahead of the other EU's ones. By participating in the deal, the UK would be volume capped on the two being generated in the UK without any say.

Overall therefore, the only way the UK would do well out of the deal would be if the two vaccines in the UK fail, all the others in the world also fail and one of the EU ones succeeds. Then UK would miss out on some guaranteed volume.

Remoaners must be hugely conflicted with the UK having two vaccines in development that are way ahead of any vaccine being developed by the EU. Really does not fit their narrative that the UK is rubbish and the EU is better

Remoaners are so bitter that they probably want the UK vaccines to fail so they can attack the UK...

kingstongraham

Depends on what the vaccine scheme is - if it is a pooling of all requirements and then whatever the members of the scheme buy is shared, then I can't see the benefit to the UK of joining. We aren't in the EU.

If it is just an additional option (like the PPE scheme was), then I can't see the down side of joining.

rjsterry

Anyone seen anything that has got to the bottom of the £15bn for PPE supply?

First.Aspect

coopster_the_1st said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

Well on that note, what's the upside to the UK opting out of the EU coronavirus vaccine programme?

I was wondering how long it would take for you to post that!

The article I read had a reasonable explanation.

...which was?

The UK would have no say over volumes or pricing as it is not in the EU. The UK has seen no evidence of buyer power as most pharmaceuticals are offering everything at the same price to everyone, so the UK sees limited upside.

Of the vaccines in development, two are in the UK and one and a half are in the EU, but the two in the UK are way ahead of the other EU's ones. By participating in the deal, the UK would be volume capped on the two being generated in the UK without any say.

Overall therefore, the only way the UK would do well out of the deal would be if the two vaccines in the UK fail, all the others in the world also fail and one of the EU ones succeeds. Then UK would miss out on some guaranteed volume.

Remoaners must be hugely conflicted with the UK having two vaccines in development that are way ahead of any vaccine being developed by the EU. Really does not fit their narrative that the UK is rubbish and the EU is better

Remoaners are so bitter that they probably want the UK vaccines to fail so they can attack the UK...

Well this is nonsensical even by your standards.

The UK has always been a brilliantly innovative and scientific country. It is better able to do this by collaborating with scientists around the world, and vice versa. Unfortunately BJ isn't a details guy so this isn't really on his radar.

The "elbows out" approach to getting in first to a vaccine and screw the rest of the world is not only sociopathic, but actually could backfire in an extreme way if you actually lose the race. So aside from being selfish and idiotic, it is a good idea.

Remainers love the UK so much, they wanted the best for it.

Leavers love themselves so much, they blamed everything that might be wrong with the UK on other people.

TheBigBean

rjsterry said:

Anyone seen anything that has got to the bottom of the £15bn for PPE supply?

Nothing useful. I have noted that the same people who were complaining about the shortage are now complaining abut the cost.

kingstongraham

TheBigBean said:

rjsterry said:

Anyone seen anything that has got to the bottom of the £15bn for PPE supply?

Nothing useful. I have noted that the same people who were complaining about the shortage are now complaining abut the cost.

If it means we are spending what it takes to get more than enough for the winter, then you'd expect it to be a very large number.

Throwing money at companies who could deliver is absolutely what should have been done given the situation three months ago. If we were throwing money at companies who couldn't deliver, then not so much.

Stevo_666

TheBigBean said:

rjsterry said:

Anyone seen anything that has got to the bottom of the £15bn for PPE supply?

Nothing useful. I have noted that the same people who were complaining about the shortage are now complaining abut the cost.

Agreed. Is the issue now that we are spending too much on protecting people?

rjsterry

TheBigBean said:

rjsterry said:

Anyone seen anything that has got to the bottom of the £15bn for PPE supply?

Nothing useful. I have noted that the same people who were complaining about the shortage are now complaining abut the cost.

Not so much complaining as wondering how on earth they have arrived at that figure. It's I think 15l times what they normally spend in a year. They are going to need a really big shed.

rick_chasey

Stevo_666 said:

TheBigBean said:

rjsterry said:

Anyone seen anything that has got to the bottom of the £15bn for PPE supply?

Nothing useful. I have noted that the same people who were complaining about the shortage are now complaining abut the cost.

Agreed. Is the issue now that we are spending too much on protecting people?

4 aircraft carriers worth. Who knows if it's too much or not.

Stevo_666

There's no pleasing some people.

kingstongraham

TheBigBean said:

rjsterry said:

Anyone seen anything that has got to the bottom of the £15bn for PPE supply?

Nothing useful. I have noted that the same people who were complaining about the shortage are now complaining abut the cost.

I'm not complaining about paying what was needed, but if we hadn't had a shortage, we wouldn't have needed to spend so much in a hurry when prices were highest. Would have been ridiculous to not buy them when needed given the money being thrown out everywhere.

I saw an article saying that France were using 45 million masks a week, so several billion items of PPE sounds reasonable for the UK to fulfill demand and rebuild a stockpile.

And France will be in a similar situation having burnt a billion masks.

TheBigBean

kingstongraham said:

TheBigBean said:

rjsterry said:

Anyone seen anything that has got to the bottom of the £15bn for PPE supply?

Nothing useful. I have noted that the same people who were complaining about the shortage are now complaining abut the cost.

I'm not complaining about paying what was needed, but if we hadn't had a shortage, we wouldn't have needed to spend so much in a hurry when prices were highest. Would have been ridiculous to not buy them when needed given the money being thrown out everywhere.

I saw an article saying that France were using 45 million masks a week, so several billion items of PPE sounds reasonable for the UK to fulfill demand and rebuild a stockpile.

And France will be in a similar situation having burnt a billion masks.

It's a shame reusable ones didn't get used or approved.

N0bodyOfTheGoat

rjsterry said:

Anyone seen anything that has got to the bottom of the £15bn for PPE supply?

Another dodgy looking contract award starter for ten...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-53117011

kingstongraham

Bit weird. But they seem to have delivered?

https://www.pestfix.co.uk/default.asp

tailwindhome

tailwindhome said:

Bitter sweet milestone in NI as there are now ZERO cases of Covid 19 in an ICU bed.

It's now over 2 weeks since an ICU bed in NI was occupied by a Covid 19 patient

ddraver

TheBigBean said:

kingstongraham said:

TheBigBean said:

rjsterry said:

Anyone seen anything that has got to the bottom of the £15bn for PPE supply?

Nothing useful. I have noted that the same people who were complaining about the shortage are now complaining abut the cost.

I'm not complaining about paying what was needed, but if we hadn't had a shortage, we wouldn't have needed to spend so much in a hurry when prices were highest. Would have been ridiculous to not buy them when needed given the money being thrown out everywhere.

I saw an article saying that France were using 45 million masks a week, so several billion items of PPE sounds reasonable for the UK to fulfill demand and rebuild a stockpile.

And France will be in a similar situation having burnt a billion masks.

It's a shame reusable ones didn't get used or approved.

A lot of people in France had abandoned wearing masks in shops a few weeks back, and those that were, were almost always the reusable fabric ("cool") masks. I think countries handling this sensibly allow a certain amount of leeway to allow people to settle in to what they think is reasonable.

donc, c'etait dans une Zone Vert...