Tour de France 2023 build up

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  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,912
    UAE and JUMBO are a level above ...
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • commuterlegs
    commuterlegs Posts: 271
    Assuming Ineos will be going there with the sole aim of the Team Classification and hoping for a stage win bonus from Pidders.

    Really hope they go stage hunting bonanza ala Giro 2020 but unlikely unless they have a disastrous first few days.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,592
    andyp said:

    More likely to end up 5th, 8th, 9th and 13th.

    The all important team prize!
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,592
    blazing_saddles said:

    r0bh said:

    Ineos:

    Egan Bernal
    Jonathan Castroviejo
    Omar Fraile
    Michal Kwiatkowski
    Daniel Martinez
    Tom Pidcock
    Carlos Rodriguez
    Ben Turner

    IMO Giro team > Tour team.
    Both of them are pretty strong on paper, they just lack that rider who is a genuine candidate to win. It reflects the Ineos recruitment of the last few years where they've taken on a lot of riders who showed early promise that hasn't yet been fulfilled. Ben Turner seems destined to be the new Luke Rowe.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,592
    andyp said:

    AG2R go all in on Ben O'Connor.

    At least they've made it easy to work out which Paret-Peintre has got in the day's break.
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,691
    More interesting in the Astana lineup is Cees Bol, who's barely raced alongside Cav thiss season. Are they really hoping Renshaw can turn him into a leadout during the race? He was always suspect at DSM, though they were.... strange in how they thought about sprints
    Warning No formatter is installed for the format
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    No_Ta_Doctor said:

    More interesting in the Astana lineup is Cees Bol, who's barely raced alongside Cav thiss season. Are they really hoping Renshaw can turn him into a leadout during the race? He was always suspect at DSM, though they were.... strange in how they thought about sprints

    Agreed, though if there is any sprinter who can marshal a team around in a sprint it's Cav.
    _
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,227
    No_Ta_Doctor said:

    More interesting in the Astana lineup is Cees Bol, who's barely raced alongside Cav thiss season. Are they really hoping Renshaw can turn him into a leadout during the race? He was always suspect at DSM, though they were.... strange in how they thought about sprints

    He has a knack of launching too early, which I suppose means he's vaguely in the right place.

    They raced together at the UAE tour and there seemed to be no coordination between them at all - I didn't see the zlm tour where they both raced.
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,691
    kingstongraham said:

    No_Ta_Doctor said:

    More interesting in the Astana lineup is Cees Bol, who's barely raced alongside Cav thiss season. Are they really hoping Renshaw can turn him into a leadout during the race? He was always suspect at DSM, though they were.... strange in how they thought about sprints

    He has a knack of launching too early, which I suppose means he's vaguely in the right place.

    They raced together at the UAE tour and there seemed to be no coordination between them at all - I didn't see the zlm tour where they both raced.
    Too early and maybe too hard. I don't think he's quite mastered the art of the gradual wind-up in pace
    Warning No formatter is installed for the format
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,575
    No_Ta_Doctor said:

    More interesting in the Astana lineup is Cees Bol, who's barely raced alongside Cav thiss season. Are they really hoping Renshaw can turn him into a leadout during the race? He was always suspect at DSM, though they were.... strange in how they thought about sprints

    I think their best chance of instant success is to hire Geraint Thomas as sprint consultant.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,262
    I'll do PTP tomorrow in case anyone's wondering
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 13,269
    Bzzt. Cav can't be in that there jersey now, now belongs to Fred.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,912
    RichN95. said:

    I'll do PTP tomorrow in case anyone's wondering

    Cheers .....it would be fun if no one is allowed to pick pog or Jonas ..... Just a though. 🤔☺️

    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • takethehighroad
    takethehighroad Posts: 6,823
    orraloon said:

    Bzzt. Cav can't be in that there jersey now, now belongs to Fred.

    I'll change my avatar when he wins his 35th TDF stage
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,575
  • shirley_basso
    shirley_basso Posts: 6,195
    Will morkov lead cav out for old times sake or sit on his wheel and nick the win?
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,575
    Morkov is a professional, he'll lead out the sprinter he's paid to lead out, not one on a rival team.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,912
    shirley_basso said:

    Will morkov lead cav out for old times sake or sit on his wheel and nick the win?

    No.... It's not like his team has no skin in the sprint game .

    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,227
    What if Jakobsen doesn't make it to Paris?
  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 13,269
    Just watching the GCN Cycling Show episode, interview with Egan B (and some clips I had not seen before of his starting to be able to move again, not nice). Sounds like it's a just try it and see how I get on but there's more to life than the TdF. I do hope he is able to perform.
  • roscoe
    roscoe Posts: 532
    Really fear that Bernal may never fulfil his potential now. He had back issues before his crash and that must have made things worse. Real shame.
  • super_davo
    super_davo Posts: 1,229
    roscoe said:

    Really fear that Bernal may never fulfil his potential now. He had back issues before his crash and that must have made things worse. Real shame.

    He's won a TdF and a Giro which isn't a bad return, and even before injury I doubt he'd beat Pog or Vinegaard from 2021 onwards. He'd need to be significantly better in the mountains to compensate for his inferiority in TTs, and he patently isn't. If anything he got his Tour in the small window he could between the Froome and Pog eras. Injury obviously a shame though.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,262
    super_davo said:



    He's won a TdF and a Giro which isn't a bad return, and even before injury I doubt he'd beat Pog or Vinegaard from 2021 onwards. He'd need to be significantly better in the mountains to compensate for his inferiority in TTs, and he patently isn't. If anything he got his Tour in the small window he could between the Froome and Pog eras. Injury obviously a shame though.

    There's no a lot of TTing these days though. Only 16km of flat this year and that's got a 150m climb in it.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,575
    RichN95. said:

    super_davo said:



    He's won a TdF and a Giro which isn't a bad return, and even before injury I doubt he'd beat Pog or Vinegaard from 2021 onwards. He'd need to be significantly better in the mountains to compensate for his inferiority in TTs, and he patently isn't. If anything he got his Tour in the small window he could between the Froome and Pog eras. Injury obviously a shame though.

    There's no a lot of TTing these days though. Only 16km of flat this year and that's got a 150m climb in it.
    It's on the cusp of being a mountain TT, the last 5 kms are very definitely uphill and there is a smaller climb early on. To me it looks very similar to the last week TT in the 2016 Tour that Froome won from Dumoulin and Aru, of all people.
  • andyrac
    andyrac Posts: 1,204
    super_davo said:

    roscoe said:

    Really fear that Bernal may never fulfil his potential now. He had back issues before his crash and that must have made things worse. Real shame.

    He's won a TdF and a Giro which isn't a bad return, and even before injury I doubt he'd beat Pog or Vinegaard from 2021 onwards. He'd need to be significantly better in the mountains to compensate for his inferiority in TTs, and he patently isn't. If anything he got his Tour in the small window he could between the Froome and Pog eras. Injury obviously a shame though.
    He could always return to his roots in XC MTB - he was twice a junior Worlds medallist.
    All Road/ Gravel: tbcWinter: tbcMTB: tbcRoad: tbc"Look at the time...." "he's fallen like an old lady on a cruise ship..."
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,575
    super_davo said:

    roscoe said:

    Really fear that Bernal may never fulfil his potential now. He had back issues before his crash and that must have made things worse. Real shame.

    He's won a TdF and a Giro which isn't a bad return, and even before injury I doubt he'd beat Pog or Vinegaard from 2021 onwards. He'd need to be significantly better in the mountains to compensate for his inferiority in TTs, and he patently isn't. If anything he got his Tour in the small window he could between the Froome and Pog eras. Injury obviously a shame though.
    I'm not convinced he's done yet. He's still on the road to recovery from the injuries he received 18 months ago and is not far off being competitive at World Tour level (8th on GC at Romandie, 12th at the Dauphine). Obviously that's below his previous level, but a full season of racing this year and a good winter could see him being a contender again.

    I still think he could be a genuine challenger to Pogacar and Vingegaard, if he fully recovers from his injuries. He was definitely at that level before his crash.
  • super_davo
    super_davo Posts: 1,229
    andyp said:

    super_davo said:

    roscoe said:

    Really fear that Bernal may never fulfil his potential now. He had back issues before his crash and that must have made things worse. Real shame.

    He's won a TdF and a Giro which isn't a bad return, and even before injury I doubt he'd beat Pog or Vinegaard from 2021 onwards. He'd need to be significantly better in the mountains to compensate for his inferiority in TTs, and he patently isn't. If anything he got his Tour in the small window he could between the Froome and Pog eras. Injury obviously a shame though.
    I'm not convinced he's done yet. He's still on the road to recovery from the injuries he received 18 months ago and is not far off being competitive at World Tour level (8th on GC at Romandie, 12th at the Dauphine). Obviously that's below his previous level, but a full season of racing this year and a good winter could see him being a contender again.

    I still think he could be a genuine challenger to Pogacar and Vingegaard, if he fully recovers from his injuries. He was definitely at that level before his crash.
    Agree he's not done yet, but even pre injury genuine challenger to Pog?

    I just struggle to see anywhere he's going to claw back the time he'll lose from TTs and punchy finishes. Same for Vingegaard.

    A tier 2 rider definitely but behind the big guns.
  • joeyhalloran
    joeyhalloran Posts: 1,080
    Difficult to say, he was pretty young when he crashed, who's to say he didn't have more growth in him to challenge Pog and Ving?
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 12,035
    I would agree he definitely has the potential, when he won, most people were saying he was going to dominate the tour for the next 5 years - but then the accident happened, and Pog happened.

    Then everyone said Pog would dominate for the next 5 years, and to be fair he pretty much has, bar the one slip last year which let Vingers nip through, and then maintain that lead to the end - my money is on Pog this year.

    I think Bernal has the potential to improve, and probably his TT-ing as well, he's likely at the best possible team to achieve it really, what with Ganna and Bigham there.
    Whether he had that capacity to improve before his crash we will never know, but I', hopeful, though maybe not too optimistic that he can return to his previous form, and I personally think he would need to exceed it to challenge the worlds best.
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  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,227
    The Lidl-Trek kit is really minging.

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