Energy thread

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  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,458
    edited August 2022
    First.Aspect said:

    tailwindhome said:

    Mrs TWH has been monitoring the cost of 500l of home heating oil for some weeks now

    It was slowly coming down to £400, started to tick up so she ordered at £410 last week

    Same company quoting £510 this week

    Is that not a September = Autumn change, as much as anything else?
    I don't think so.

    Maybe in so much as everyone is back off hols and caused a spike in demand by all ordering oil at the same time.

    Edit.

    They put their prices up periodically on Facebook.

    Early June and early July both quoted >500

    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,799
    First.Aspect said:

    tailwindhome said:

    Mrs TWH has been monitoring the cost of 500l of home heating oil for some weeks now

    It was slowly coming down to £400, started to tick up so she ordered at £410 last week

    Same company quoting £510 this week

    Is that not a September = Autumn change, as much as anything else?
    Probably. I stocked up in late July when it was hot on that basis.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,458
    Stevo_666 said:

    First.Aspect said:

    tailwindhome said:

    Mrs TWH has been monitoring the cost of 500l of home heating oil for some weeks now

    It was slowly coming down to £400, started to tick up so she ordered at £410 last week

    Same company quoting £510 this week

    Is that not a September = Autumn change, as much as anything else?
    Probably. I stocked up in late July when it was hot on that basis.
    How do prices compare in GB?

    NI afaik is, as in so many things, an oddity in that a very high proportion of households use oil
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,226
    I just did a calculation here https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/what-are-the-price-cap-unit-rates-/#tool based on our estimated usage on a bill.

    Realised our gas usage is high, but above everything else, I think the increase is so big since this time last year that my brain didn't quite grasp the compound effects of a 10% rise then a 50% rise then an 80% rise. When the new prices come in October, the overall cost has trebled.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,226
    In a way, you have to admire Saudi Arabia importing Russian oil at cheap prices so they have more to export at high prices to countries who are boycotting Russian oil.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,799
    tailwindhome said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    First.Aspect said:

    tailwindhome said:

    Mrs TWH has been monitoring the cost of 500l of home heating oil for some weeks now

    It was slowly coming down to £400, started to tick up so she ordered at £410 last week

    Same company quoting £510 this week

    Is that not a September = Autumn change, as much as anything else?
    Probably. I stocked up in late July when it was hot on that basis.
    How do prices compare in GB?

    NI afaik is, as in so many things, an oddity in that a very high proportion of households use oil
    I paid about 88p a litre incl. VAT for 650l so slightly higher than you, maybe because its relatively less common over here? But still a decent price at it hit 130p just after Putin rolled into Ukraine and is now about 98p.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,379
    But they are an ally and own Newcastle. Surely that excuses promoting geopolitical instability and murdering the odd journalist?
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    edited August 2022
    kingstongraham said:

    In a way, you have to admire Saudi Arabia importing Russian oil at cheap prices so they have more to export at high prices to countries who are boycotting Russian oil.

    Saudis properly know their stuff when it comes to O&G. Tough lot there. Whatever anyone's thought about the market, they're already all over it.
    _
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,226
    rick_chasey said:

    kingstongraham said:

    In a way, you have to admire Saudi Arabia importing Russian oil at cheap prices so they have more to export at high prices to countries who are boycotting Russian oil.

    Saudis properly know their stuff when it comes to O&G. Tough lot there. Whatever anyone's thought about the market, they're already all over it.
    I guess this tweet got me thinking.
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,154
    Has anybody got a petrol/diesel generator if the electrons stop moving?
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    edited August 2022
    kingstongraham said:

    rick_chasey said:

    kingstongraham said:

    In a way, you have to admire Saudi Arabia importing Russian oil at cheap prices so they have more to export at high prices to countries who are boycotting Russian oil.

    Saudis properly know their stuff when it comes to O&G. Tough lot there. Whatever anyone's thought about the market, they're already all over it.
    I guess this tweet got me thinking.
    It's a different world now though. US is a big energy exporter. They're run differently but I really don't think the US minds if OPEC play games anymore.


    The optimist in me does think that 2023 will be the nadir for European energy and the future will be a lot greener, more diverse and a lot less reliant on fossil fuels.

    The pessimist in me sees this as the forerunner to a much bigger European/intercontinental war, but I'm really trying hard to keep those thoughts at bay.
    _
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,379
    Unless it's nuclear, there's not going to be a continental war. Russia has over extended itself to get a smallish part of southern Ukraine and simply doesn't have the capacity. Some of the poorer Eastern parts of the EU might break ranks on sanctions if the prices stay where they are through tonthis time next year, but it is a stretch to imagine them turning their backs on the EU entirely in favour of Russia.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    edited August 2022
    First.Aspect said:

    Unless it's nuclear, there's not going to be a continental war. Russia has over extended itself to get a smallish part of southern Ukraine and simply doesn't have the capacity. Some of the poorer Eastern parts of the EU might break ranks on sanctions if the prices stay where they are through tonthis time next year, but it is a stretch to imagine them turning their backs on the EU entirely in favour of Russia.

    I am more broadly worried about the polarisation of politics in the west and the rise of the far right as well as the growing authoritarianism around the rest of the world.

    It never ends well when this is the direction of travel.

    Without putting too finer point on it, the prospect of this current iteration of the Republican party getting elected and being in charge of the world's biggest military (by a long way) and nuclear arsenal fills me with utter dread. I have a rep for alarmist, but the stuff these republicans are saying is straight out fash and they would be off the leash second time around with Trump.
    _
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,379
    The one crumb of comfort with the republicans is that they are very inward looking and to start a war with someone, or join one to help someone, first you have to care. So i'd say the Democrats are more likely to be involved in deterring a war, starting one or joining one, whereas the risk from the republicans is going missing when the world needs the US to take a stance.

    Besides, not clear how November will play out. Could be by that time Trump is covered in even more sh1t and the Republican party realise that mobilising a dwindling lunatic base is not going to get them quite far enough.

    The republicans have also just badly alienated a large proportion of women. And there are more alienated women than there are white working class uneducated men, I suspect.

    Time will tell.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    And there is no reason to say Europe won’t have a big country with a far right or extremist government either.
    _
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,379
    rick_chasey said:

    And there is no reason to say Europe won’t have a big country with a far right or extremist government either.

    We already have one.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    First.Aspect said:

    rick_chasey said:

    And there is no reason to say Europe won’t have a big country with a far right or extremist government either.

    We already have one.
    Now who's being alarmist, which country?

    This pathetic excuse for a government is not *far* right.
    _
  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 13,268
    I've been looking at roof PVs, today got in touch (eventually) with Scottish Power's solar unit. They're busy, surprise surprise. At least they are using a smarter telephone system, get engaged tone rather than hanging on in a long queue, got through then was 2nd in line.

    Take details, location, usage, house config, etc info which gets passed through to produce estimates of size / cost options. Their normal response time for that is 2 weeks, currently 6-8 weeks. Indicative of levels of increase in households looking to ameliorate energy costs, in the subset of population who could afford the upfront £ costs.
  • laurentian
    laurentian Posts: 2,568
    orraloon said:

    I've been looking at roof PVs, today got in touch (eventually) with Scottish Power's solar unit. They're busy, surprise surprise. At least they are using a smarter telephone system, get engaged tone rather than hanging on in a long queue, got through then was 2nd in line.

    Take details, location, usage, house config, etc info which gets passed through to produce estimates of size / cost options. Their normal response time for that is 2 weeks, currently 6-8 weeks. Indicative of levels of increase in households looking to ameliorate energy costs, in the subset of population who could afford the upfront £ costs.

    This was us a few years ago. In a position to be able to afford PV (and battery storage) and figured it would help keep energy costs lower as we approach retirement. The "payback" was never going to look like it was viable although I haven't done the sums based on the latest hikes.

    Unsurprisingly, the last three or four summers, we have basically had "free" electricity (notwithstanding the standing charge)
    Wilier Izoard XP
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    edited August 2022
    Called up British gas to go for the fixed price. It's been pulled and no more available for now :( Rookie mistake!

    Also no chance for a smart meter to be fitted - obviously everyone had my thought 3 weeks ago.
    _
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,482
    rick_chasey said:

    Called up British gas to go for the fixed price. It's been pulled and no more available for now :( Rookie mistake!

    Also no chance for a smart meter to be fitted - obviously everyone had my thought 3 weeks ago.

    Wouldn't worry about that. All it saves is providing readings.
    Unless you want to know what costs what but if I'm using something it is for a reason.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    Sure. I have no clue what I'm using other than the snapshot metre readings which I then have to convert and it's a faff.

    _
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,482
    rick_chasey said:

    Sure. I have no clue what I'm using other than the snapshot metre readings which I then have to convert and it's a faff.

    Curious. What do you have to convert?
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    pblakeney said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Sure. I have no clue what I'm using other than the snapshot metre readings which I then have to convert and it's a faff.

    Curious. What do you have to convert?
    well the reading into what I've used in kilowatts and then the price per kilowatt.

    I run the house pretty hot so I have quite a bit of savings to be made this winter, but it'd be nice to know how much ahead of time.
    _
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    Anyway, my view on European politics is nicely summed up by the Dutch saying:

    Als de armoede binnenkomt, vliegt de liefde het raam uit.

    Literally: “When poverty comes in, love flies out the window.”
    _
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,154
    I think it's a disgrace families have to mess about with what are essential utilities. It's yet another, if you can run faster than the next man policy/situation.

    I understand the utilities were inefficient, but the Milk Snatcher shouldn't have done this.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,482
    rick_chasey said:

    pblakeney said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Sure. I have no clue what I'm using other than the snapshot metre readings which I then have to convert and it's a faff.

    Curious. What do you have to convert?
    well the reading into what I've used in kilowatts and then the price per kilowatt.

    I run the house pretty hot so I have quite a bit of savings to be made this winter, but it'd be nice to know how much ahead of time.
    I can see the point in that but a smart meter won't do that for you either.
    (Mine didn't anyway and as smart meters don't know future costs...)
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,660
    pblakeney said:

    rick_chasey said:

    pblakeney said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Sure. I have no clue what I'm using other than the snapshot metre readings which I then have to convert and it's a faff.

    Curious. What do you have to convert?
    well the reading into what I've used in kilowatts and then the price per kilowatt.

    I run the house pretty hot so I have quite a bit of savings to be made this winter, but it'd be nice to know how much ahead of time.
    I can see the point in that but a smart meter won't do that for you either.
    (Mine didn't anyway and as smart meters don't know future costs...)
    Sure but it does tell you real time what you've spent that day
    _
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,482
    rick_chasey said:

    pblakeney said:

    rick_chasey said:

    pblakeney said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Sure. I have no clue what I'm using other than the snapshot metre readings which I then have to convert and it's a faff.

    Curious. What do you have to convert?
    well the reading into what I've used in kilowatts and then the price per kilowatt.

    I run the house pretty hot so I have quite a bit of savings to be made this winter, but it'd be nice to know how much ahead of time.
    I can see the point in that but a smart meter won't do that for you either.
    (Mine didn't anyway and as smart meters don't know future costs...)
    Sure but it does tell you real time what you've spent that day
    Hard to say as I've not had heating on since April.
    As said above, if I'm using something it is for a reason. Costs will be justified and met.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,379
    rick_chasey said:

    pblakeney said:

    rick_chasey said:

    pblakeney said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Sure. I have no clue what I'm using other than the snapshot metre readings which I then have to convert and it's a faff.

    Curious. What do you have to convert?
    well the reading into what I've used in kilowatts and then the price per kilowatt.

    I run the house pretty hot so I have quite a bit of savings to be made this winter, but it'd be nice to know how much ahead of time.
    I can see the point in that but a smart meter won't do that for you either.
    (Mine didn't anyway and as smart meters don't know future costs...)
    Sure but it does tell you real time what you've spent that day
    Is it really going to be that bad for you? I guess I'm already used to keeping the house at 15-18C, and my cut backs will be less use of the electric oil heaters. This might even force me into the office.

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