Energy thread

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Comments

  • sungod
    sungod Posts: 17,268
    rick_chasey said:

    What use is a tax cut to someone already not earning very much?

    Say you’re on £24k and your energy bill has gone up from £1200 a year to £7000 a year. What use is a tax cut going to be?

    i'd think owners and senior management of the daily mail/express/etc. would enjoy a tax cut, seems likely the party members would too
    my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,157
    sungod said:

    rick_chasey said:

    What use is a tax cut to someone already not earning very much?

    Say you’re on £24k and your energy bill has gone up from £1200 a year to £7000 a year. What use is a tax cut going to be?

    i'd think owners and senior management of the daily mail/express/etc. would enjoy a tax cut, seems likely the party members would too
    Yup. Must be remembered who the intended audience is.
    Forget all notions that they are doing what is best for the country.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • masjer
    masjer Posts: 2,613
    I guess levelling up is going to be put on the back burner.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,049
    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    focuszing723 said:

    skyblueamateur said:

    I don't know a huge amount about the energy market so excuse my ignorance but if Norway are proposing stopping exports of their gas why are we not doing the same with North Sea gas? Would that make us self-sufficient?

    I'm sure fracking will be on the agenda now.
    It is, and a certain party is still doing it's best to stop it.
    https://telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/08/27/ed-davey-proud-have-stopped-fracking-despite-energy-crisis/
    Safe to say that with the planning system as it is, any fracking operation not already up and running will not be helping out this winter.
    Maybe. Seems that it would have been easier if Ed Davey etc had not been putting a spoke in the wheels previously.
    Who knows; they're all at it. I think Truss is currently campaigning against PV . Energy seems to be one of those things everyone wants to be produced elsewhere. And the timescale of projects is too long for politicians attention spans. I remember Hinckley Point C being planned while I was still at school and Pross is only working on it now.
    Also, who knows about timescales, both of how long the Russia issue will persist and how long it takes more fracking to come back on stream.
    In any case we should be moving to using less gas, not finding ways to get the stuff that wasn't previously viable.
    As a short to medium term solution, we should be looking at both - IMO. Unless you are sure we can reduce usage enough to be OK.

    No issues with PV here, although in the short term it doesn't help people who heat their homes and cook with gas.
    Can you see a fracking operation in the North Downs being popular? Would you support it if there was shale gas there (which there is if not in useful quantities)?
    If in useful quantities, then I'd be OK with it.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • sungod
    sungod Posts: 17,268
    masjer said:

    I guess levelling up is going to be put on the back burner.

    well, they have to burn something to keep warm
    my bike - faster than god's and twice as shiny
  • mully79
    mully79 Posts: 904
    Latest poll 23% turning heating off altogether.
    23% planning to use credit cards
    10% planning a loan.

    33% using credit is going to be dangerous given it’s unlikely bills are going to come down anytime soon.
  • Jezyboy
    Jezyboy Posts: 3,560
    surrey_commuter said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    focuszing723 said:

    skyblueamateur said:

    I don't know a huge amount about the energy market so excuse my ignorance but if Norway are proposing stopping exports of their gas why are we not doing the same with North Sea gas? Would that make us self-sufficient?

    I'm sure fracking will be on the agenda now.
    It is, and a certain party is still doing it's best to stop it.
    https://telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/08/27/ed-davey-proud-have-stopped-fracking-despite-energy-crisis/
    Safe to say that with the planning system as it is, any fracking operation not already up and running will not be helping out this winter.
    Maybe. Seems that it would have been easier if Ed Davey etc had not been putting a spoke in the wheels previously.
    Who knows; they're all at it. I think Truss is currently campaigning against PV . Energy seems to be one of those things everyone wants to be produced elsewhere. And the timescale of projects is too long for politicians attention spans. I remember Hinckley Point C being planned while I was still at school and Pross is only working on it now.
    Also, who knows about timescales, both of how long the Russia issue will persist and how long it takes more fracking to come back on stream.
    In any case we should be moving to using less gas, not finding ways to get the stuff that wasn't previously viable.
    As a short to medium term solution, we should be looking at both - IMO. Unless you are sure we can reduce usage enough to be OK.

    No issues with PV here, although in the short term it doesn't help people who heat their homes and cook with gas.
    Can you see a fracking operation in the North Downs being popular? Would you support it if there was shale gas there (which there is if not in useful quantities)?
    A mate of mine works in the gas industry and whilst he is broadly in favour of fracking thinks that doing it where people live is madness
    Don't worry too much SC, I'm sure it will be saved for up north.

    Maybe earthquakes will provide a levelling up opportunity.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,336
    edited August 2022
    Stevo_666 said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    focuszing723 said:

    skyblueamateur said:

    I don't know a huge amount about the energy market so excuse my ignorance but if Norway are proposing stopping exports of their gas why are we not doing the same with North Sea gas? Would that make us self-sufficient?

    I'm sure fracking will be on the agenda now.
    It is, and a certain party is still doing it's best to stop it.
    https://telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/08/27/ed-davey-proud-have-stopped-fracking-despite-energy-crisis/
    Safe to say that with the planning system as it is, any fracking operation not already up and running will not be helping out this winter.
    Maybe. Seems that it would have been easier if Ed Davey etc had not been putting a spoke in the wheels previously.
    Who knows; they're all at it. I think Truss is currently campaigning against PV . Energy seems to be one of those things everyone wants to be produced elsewhere. And the timescale of projects is too long for politicians attention spans. I remember Hinckley Point C being planned while I was still at school and Pross is only working on it now.
    Also, who knows about timescales, both of how long the Russia issue will persist and how long it takes more fracking to come back on stream.
    In any case we should be moving to using less gas, not finding ways to get the stuff that wasn't previously viable.
    As a short to medium term solution, we should be looking at both - IMO. Unless you are sure we can reduce usage enough to be OK.

    No issues with PV here, although in the short term it doesn't help people who heat their homes and cook with gas.
    Can you see a fracking operation in the North Downs being popular? Would you support it if there was shale gas there (which there is if not in useful quantities)?
    If in useful quantities, then I'd be OK with it.
    We seem to be in a minority. There is a waste incinerator down the road that provides heat to several hundred dwellings - I seem to be the only person who thinks it's a good idea and better than landfill. If I've understood correctly there's only one place where it is even halfway viable in mainland UK: Bowland Basin. They have been exploring this for over a decade and even with tax breaks end the PM (Cameron) endorsing it, they couldn't make a go of it. Clearly it's not a short term anything but even in the medium term it looks unlikely to make any contribution.

    Similarly, extravagant plans about many nuclear power stations we are going to build are not going to help anyone's energy needs this side of the mid 2030s.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • masjer
    masjer Posts: 2,613
    Maybe Truss will unveil her master plan and start a whaling fleet again.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,391
    rjsterry said:

    blazing_saddles said:

    tailwindhome said:


    Says someone who is neither 70 nor a teenager.
    Seems quite bitter for some reason.
    The big difference is when you did get ice on the inside of the window, most rooms had a fireplace. Boasting about not having central heating is less impressive when you just mean that you had to light the fire.
    In 1982 my sister’s north facing bedroom had ice on the inside wall let alone window. We had a gas fire in the living room and that was it. The only other heat source was a paraffin heater we had in the bathroom when it was really cold. Hot water was from an immersion heater. Our household included my Nan who was in her late 70s. We did get central heating around 1983/84 in the end.

    It was grim in hindsight although I never really noticed it at the time as it was all I knew. I wouldn’t want to go back there but I do think people have got too used to their homes being (overly?) warm. Insulating houses is great but insulating yourself is cheaper and easier.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,049
    Pross said:

    rjsterry said:

    blazing_saddles said:

    tailwindhome said:


    Says someone who is neither 70 nor a teenager.
    Seems quite bitter for some reason.
    The big difference is when you did get ice on the inside of the window, most rooms had a fireplace. Boasting about not having central heating is less impressive when you just mean that you had to light the fire.
    In 1982 my sister’s north facing bedroom had ice on the inside wall let alone window. We had a gas fire in the living room and that was it. The only other heat source was a paraffin heater we had in the bathroom when it was really cold. Hot water was from an immersion heater. Our household included my Nan who was in her late 70s. We did get central heating around 1983/84 in the end.

    It was grim in hindsight although I never really noticed it at the time as it was all I knew. I wouldn’t want to go back there but I do think people have got too used to their homes being (overly?) warm. Insulating houses is great but insulating yourself is cheaper and easier.
    True, luckily I don't like overly warm houses and prefer to sleep in a cool bedroom under a decent duvet. And I'm a Northerner which means I can stand the cold better :smile:
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • bonk_king
    bonk_king Posts: 277
    I had a wood burner fitted in November 2021, before everything started getting really silly. I can get as much clean, dry wood from work as I want, it's limitless.....and completely free!

    The way things have spiralled over the past few months it may turn into one of the best purchases I've ever made.

    Granted, it doesn't help the electric usage much, I've got other measures in place there, but it will mean my gas usage will be a bare minimum due to the central heating hardly being on through winter, if at all!!

  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,049
    edited August 2022
    Also our Ukrainian house guest should turn up next month, which means a decent monthly sub for the heating bills, although it remains to be seen whether Kerosene prices will go as high as gas in any event.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Stevo_666 said:

    Also our Ukrainian house guest should turn up next moth, which means a decent monthly sub for the heating bills, although it remains to be seen whether Kerosene prices will go as high as gas in any event.

    Global slowdowns usually depress kerosene prices
    _
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,049
    rick_chasey said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Also our Ukrainian house guest should turn up next moth, which means a decent monthly sub for the heating bills, although it remains to be seen whether Kerosene prices will go as high as gas in any event.

    Global slowdowns usually depress kerosene prices
    Hopefully, although it has been permanently higher post invasion of Ukraine as you'd expect.
    https://boilerjuice.com/heating-oil-prices-england/
    Still, probably cheaper than gas for the time being.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,391
    It’s interesting that (car) fuel prices have dropped considerably in recent weeks. I just passed a Tesco where diesel is ‘down’ to 175p. I assume that is down to other markets opening their reserves and it is obviously easier to change suppliers of liquid fuel.
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,711
    Pross said:

    It’s interesting that (car) fuel prices have dropped considerably in recent weeks. I just passed a Tesco where diesel is ‘down’ to 175p. I assume that is down to other markets opening their reserves and it is obviously easier to change suppliers of liquid fuel.

    Meanwhile, electric powered cars are starting to look rather pricey.
    The savings will be mostly wiped out with the October cap and come January, assuming petrol prices are roughly the same,( a big question mark over that I’ll grant you) electric vehicles will cost significantly more to keep on the road. They are already quite a bit more expensive to put on the road in the first place.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,049
    edited August 2022
    Pross said:

    It’s interesting that (car) fuel prices have dropped considerably in recent weeks. I just passed a Tesco where diesel is ‘down’ to 175p. I assume that is down to other markets opening their reserves and it is obviously easier to change suppliers of liquid fuel.

    True, regular unleaded now below 165p round here. I guess supply is getting better compared to demand. As mentioned above, this also bodes well for my oil fired central heating this winter.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,058
    edited August 2022
    ...
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,058
    People who signed up on one of the early PV solar tariffs must be laughing.

  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,336
    Stevo_666 said:

    Also our Ukrainian house guest should turn up next moth, which means a decent monthly sub for the heating bills, although it remains to be seen whether Kerosene prices will go as high as gas in any event.

    Hope that works out this time.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,049
    rjsterry said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    Also our Ukrainian house guest should turn up next moth, which means a decent monthly sub for the heating bills, although it remains to be seen whether Kerosene prices will go as high as gas in any event.

    Hope that works out this time.
    Ta - she has all her paperwork sorted and we've all had our council inspections and DBS checks back, so she's just got to sort her travel out with a bit of help from the charity. Fingers crossed.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,750
    focuszing723 said:

    People who signed up on one of the early PV solar tariffs must be laughing.

    They paid a lot more for their panels and if residential are only receiving 3.2p/kWh for exported stuff.
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,313
    Mrs TWH has been monitoring the cost of 500l of home heating oil for some weeks now

    It was slowly coming down to £400, started to tick up so she ordered at £410 last week

    Same company quoting £510 this week
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    tailwindhome said:

    Mrs TWH has been monitoring the cost of 500l of home heating oil for some weeks now

    It was slowly coming down to £400, started to tick up so she ordered at £410 last week

    Same company quoting £510 this week

    OPEC declared they want crude at $100 last week, though I'd be surprised if the retail prices are that sensitive
    _
  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 16,958
    tailwindhome said:

    Mrs TWH has been monitoring the cost of 500l of home heating oil for some weeks now

    It was slowly coming down to £400, started to tick up so she ordered at £410 last week

    Same company quoting £510 this week

    Is that not a September = Autumn change, as much as anything else?
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Back in the office.

    Straw poll of the 8 near me - only one has an ideal of the scale of the increases.

    Eek.
    _
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,391
    rick_chasey said:

    Back in the office.

    Straw poll of the 8 near me - only one has an ideal of the scale of the increases.

    Eek.

    A sign they are well enough off that it doesn’t really make a difference to them?
  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 13,227
    Pross said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Back in the office.

    Straw poll of the 8 near me - only one has an ideal of the scale of the increases.

    Eek.

    A sign they are well enough off that it doesn’t really make a difference to them?
    Or, like 'our' Chancellor, this week's anyway, they can claim the cost of heating their horse stables on expenses?

  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Pross said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Back in the office.

    Straw poll of the 8 near me - only one has an ideal of the scale of the increases.

    Eek.

    A sign they are well enough off that it doesn’t really make a difference to them?
    Mostly grads...
    _

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