Energy thread
Comments
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Sounds like a good idea.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
The last sentence of the article makes me nervous.rjsterry said:Sounds like a good idea.
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Well, sure. I think we are at the point where we need to just bypass obstacles like that. Either help or GTFOOTW.First.Aspect said:
The last sentence of the article makes me nervous.rjsterry said:Sounds like a good idea.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Possible small catch in the last sentence of the second paragraph, as I'm sure the definition of 'rich' will be pretty broad if they want to get enough money in."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0
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Assumed that would be higher rate payers as an easy identifier.Stevo_666 said:Possible small catch in the last sentence of the second paragraph, as I'm sure the definition of 'rich' will be pretty broad if they want to get enough money in.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
So that would be quite broad as it covers everyone making over £50k a year. Seem to recall seeing in the news recently that a good proportion of people earning close to that amount might need help with their bills...rjsterry said:
Assumed that would be higher rate payers as an easy identifier.Stevo_666 said:Possible small catch in the last sentence of the second paragraph, as I'm sure the definition of 'rich' will be pretty broad if they want to get enough money in.
https://theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/aug/27/people-earning-45000-could-struggle-with-bills-says-chancellor"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Well yes. If it's not broad it doesn't raise much money, does it?Stevo_666 said:
So that would be quite broad as it covers everyone making over £50k a year. Seem to recall seeing in the news recently that a good proportion of people earning close to that amount might need help with their bills...rjsterry said:
Assumed that would be higher rate payers as an easy identifier.Stevo_666 said:Possible small catch in the last sentence of the second paragraph, as I'm sure the definition of 'rich' will be pretty broad if they want to get enough money in.
https://theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/aug/27/people-earning-45000-could-struggle-with-bills-says-chancellor0 -
Sure, but a lot less help than the 85% of the population who earn under £50k.Stevo_666 said:
So that would be quite broad as it covers everyone making over £50k a year. Seem to recall seeing in the news recently that a good proportion of people earning close to that amount might need help with their bills...rjsterry said:
Assumed that would be higher rate payers as an easy identifier.Stevo_666 said:Possible small catch in the last sentence of the second paragraph, as I'm sure the definition of 'rich' will be pretty broad if they want to get enough money in.
https://theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/aug/27/people-earning-45000-could-struggle-with-bills-says-chancellor- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
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Adds up, about 15% of the working population.rick_chasey said:How many people are in the 40% bracket? About 4 and a half million.
- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
Bought 3 by the way.pangolin said:
https://www.uniqlo.com/uk/en/product/heattech-v-neck-thermal-t-shirt-450526.htmlrick_chasey said:Yes thanks. ANyone know of any decent v necked thermal layers? Struggling to find any that are available. Much more helpful under shirts for video calls etc.
https://www.uniqlo.com/uk/en/product/heattech-v-neck-long-sleeved-thermal-top-456803.html0 -
I guess it depends when the tax is collected. Certainly no point robbing Peter to pay Paul, but generally, I think the broader the better.Stevo_666 said:
So that would be quite broad as it covers everyone making over £50k a year. Seem to recall seeing in the news recently that a good proportion of people earning close to that amount might need help with their bills...rjsterry said:
Assumed that would be higher rate payers as an easy identifier.Stevo_666 said:Possible small catch in the last sentence of the second paragraph, as I'm sure the definition of 'rich' will be pretty broad if they want to get enough money in.
https://theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/aug/27/people-earning-45000-could-struggle-with-bills-says-chancellor1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
So potentially people who will be helped with their energy bills might be asked to pay more tax to fund it...pangolin said:
Sure, but a lot less help than the 85% of the population who earn under £50k.Stevo_666 said:
So that would be quite broad as it covers everyone making over £50k a year. Seem to recall seeing in the news recently that a good proportion of people earning close to that amount might need help with their bills...rjsterry said:
Assumed that would be higher rate payers as an easy identifier.Stevo_666 said:Possible small catch in the last sentence of the second paragraph, as I'm sure the definition of 'rich' will be pretty broad if they want to get enough money in.
https://theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/aug/27/people-earning-45000-could-struggle-with-bills-says-chancellor
Still, its only a proposal on the interweb at present."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Well deduced.rick_chasey said:
Well yes. If it's not broad it doesn't raise much money, does it?Stevo_666 said:
So that would be quite broad as it covers everyone making over £50k a year. Seem to recall seeing in the news recently that a good proportion of people earning close to that amount might need help with their bills...rjsterry said:
Assumed that would be higher rate payers as an easy identifier.Stevo_666 said:Possible small catch in the last sentence of the second paragraph, as I'm sure the definition of 'rich' will be pretty broad if they want to get enough money in.
https://theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/aug/27/people-earning-45000-could-struggle-with-bills-says-chancellor"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I just posted something to the same effect.rjsterry said:
Certainly no point robbing Peter to pay PaulStevo_666 said:
So that would be quite broad as it covers everyone making over £50k a year. Seem to recall seeing in the news recently that a good proportion of people earning close to that amount might need help with their bills...rjsterry said:
Assumed that would be higher rate payers as an easy identifier.Stevo_666 said:Possible small catch in the last sentence of the second paragraph, as I'm sure the definition of 'rich' will be pretty broad if they want to get enough money in.
https://theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/aug/27/people-earning-45000-could-struggle-with-bills-says-chancellor"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Why not just borrow the money? As you've explained before there's no real limit to national debt.rick_chasey said:How many people are in the 40% bracket? About 4 and a half million.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
We do it currently don't we? There are large chunks of income brackets where people pay tax then get some back for things like child benefit.Stevo_666 said:
So potentially people who will be helped with their energy bills might be asked to pay more tax to fund it...pangolin said:
Sure, but a lot less help than the 85% of the population who earn under £50k.Stevo_666 said:
So that would be quite broad as it covers everyone making over £50k a year. Seem to recall seeing in the news recently that a good proportion of people earning close to that amount might need help with their bills...rjsterry said:
Assumed that would be higher rate payers as an easy identifier.Stevo_666 said:Possible small catch in the last sentence of the second paragraph, as I'm sure the definition of 'rich' will be pretty broad if they want to get enough money in.
https://theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/aug/27/people-earning-45000-could-struggle-with-bills-says-chancellor
Still, its only a proposal on the interweb at present.- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
So I am all for borrowing to improve growth & productivity, right?Stevo_666 said:
Why not just borrow the money? As you've explained before there's no real limit to national debt.rick_chasey said:How many people are in the 40% bracket? About 4 and a half million.
That pays for itself many times over. Absolute numbers don't matter, doubly so when you're growing.
Alas, a decade and a half of no growth has rather blunted the ability to borrow down the road.
A lot of borrowing will be happening anyway as we are going to go into a pretty chunky recession, so I doubt there is that much room left over, without better evidence that there is growth at the end of the tunnel.
So far, there are very few indicators that Britain can shake off the productivity problem.0 -
That's because we are lazy.rick_chasey said:
So I am all for borrowing to improve growth & productivity, right?Stevo_666 said:
Why not just borrow the money? As you've explained before there's no real limit to national debt.rick_chasey said:How many people are in the 40% bracket? About 4 and a half million.
That pays for itself many times over. Absolute numbers don't matter, doubly so when you're growing.
Alas, a decade and a half of no growth has rather blunted the ability to borrow down the road.
A lot of borrowing will be happening anyway as we are going to go into a pretty chunky recession, so I doubt there is that much room left over, without better evidence that there is growth at the end of the tunnel.
So far, there are very few indicators that Britain can shake off the productivity problem.
Liz said so.
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What would you suggest to avoid that?Stevo_666 said:
So potentially people who will be helped with their energy bills might be asked to pay more tax to fund it...pangolin said:
Sure, but a lot less help than the 85% of the population who earn under £50k.Stevo_666 said:
So that would be quite broad as it covers everyone making over £50k a year. Seem to recall seeing in the news recently that a good proportion of people earning close to that amount might need help with their bills...rjsterry said:
Assumed that would be higher rate payers as an easy identifier.Stevo_666 said:Possible small catch in the last sentence of the second paragraph, as I'm sure the definition of 'rich' will be pretty broad if they want to get enough money in.
https://theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/aug/27/people-earning-45000-could-struggle-with-bills-says-chancellor
Still, its only a proposal on the interweb at present.0 -
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you are right, let's go back to doing nothingStevo_666 said:Possible small catch in the last sentence of the second paragraph, as I'm sure the definition of 'rich' will be pretty broad if they want to get enough money in.
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What happened to your belief in free markets?surrey_commuter said:
you are right, let's go back to doing nothingStevo_666 said:Possible small catch in the last sentence of the second paragraph, as I'm sure the definition of 'rich' will be pretty broad if they want to get enough money in.
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On the hand, no different to receiving child benefit and then getting it taxed back.Stevo_666 said:
I just posted something to the same effect.rjsterry said:
ttoStevo_666 said:
So that would be quite broad as it covers everyone making over £50k a year. Seem to recall seeing in the news recently that a good proportion of people earning close to that amount might need help with their bills...rjsterry said:
Assumed that would be higher rate payers as an easy identifier.Stevo_666 said:Possible small catch in the last sentence of the second paragraph, as I'm sure the definition of 'rich' will be pretty broad if they want to get enough money in.
https://theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/aug/27/people-earning-45000-could-struggle-with-bills-says-chancellor
Certainly no point robbing Peter to pay Paul1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
reading that article it suggests the problem is caused by Govt intervention in the marketTheBigBean said:
What happened to your belief in free markets?surrey_commuter said:
you are right, let's go back to doing nothingStevo_666 said:Possible small catch in the last sentence of the second paragraph, as I'm sure the definition of 'rich' will be pretty broad if they want to get enough money in.
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Not sure that is really the case.surrey_commuter said:
reading that article it suggests the problem is caused by Govt intervention in the marketTheBigBean said:
What happened to your belief in free markets?surrey_commuter said:
you are right, let's go back to doing nothingStevo_666 said:Possible small catch in the last sentence of the second paragraph, as I'm sure the definition of 'rich' will be pretty broad if they want to get enough money in.
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We do in other areas, but regardless of that, what's the point?pangolin said:
We do it currently don't we? There are large chunks of income brackets where people pay tax then get some back for things like child benefit.Stevo_666 said:
So potentially people who will be helped with their energy bills might be asked to pay more tax to fund it...pangolin said:
Sure, but a lot less help than the 85% of the population who earn under £50k.Stevo_666 said:
So that would be quite broad as it covers everyone making over £50k a year. Seem to recall seeing in the news recently that a good proportion of people earning close to that amount might need help with their bills...rjsterry said:
Assumed that would be higher rate payers as an easy identifier.Stevo_666 said:Possible small catch in the last sentence of the second paragraph, as I'm sure the definition of 'rich' will be pretty broad if they want to get enough money in.
https://theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/aug/27/people-earning-45000-could-struggle-with-bills-says-chancellor
Still, its only a proposal on the interweb at present.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
You said that, not me.surrey_commuter said:
you are right, let's go back to doing nothingStevo_666 said:Possible small catch in the last sentence of the second paragraph, as I'm sure the definition of 'rich' will be pretty broad if they want to get enough money in.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
But as above, what's the point?rjsterry said:
On the hand, no different to receiving child benefit and then getting it taxed back.Stevo_666 said:
I just posted something to the same effect.rjsterry said:
ttoStevo_666 said:
So that would be quite broad as it covers everyone making over £50k a year. Seem to recall seeing in the news recently that a good proportion of people earning close to that amount might need help with their bills...rjsterry said:
Assumed that would be higher rate payers as an easy identifier.Stevo_666 said:Possible small catch in the last sentence of the second paragraph, as I'm sure the definition of 'rich' will be pretty broad if they want to get enough money in.
https://theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/aug/27/people-earning-45000-could-struggle-with-bills-says-chancellor
Certainly no point robbing Peter to pay Paul
You just said above that there's no point robbing Peter to pay Paul."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
On this note, rates on gilts rose at their fastest in 35 years today.rick_chasey said:
So I am all for borrowing to improve growth & productivity, right?Stevo_666 said:
Why not just borrow the money? As you've explained before there's no real limit to national debt.rick_chasey said:How many people are in the 40% bracket? About 4 and a half million.
That pays for itself many times over. Absolute numbers don't matter, doubly so when you're growing.
Alas, a decade and a half of no growth has rather blunted the ability to borrow down the road.
A lot of borrowing will be happening anyway as we are going to go into a pretty chunky recession, so I doubt there is that much room left over, without better evidence that there is growth at the end of the tunnel.
So far, there are very few indicators that Britain can shake off the productivity problem.
In the same way I was saying that markets were telling the govt to borrow more when rates were low, as rates go higher the markets are saying we want you to borrow less.
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