The big Coronavirus thread
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Netherlands first case was nearly 4 weeks after the UK. You would therefore expect their figures to match ours with a 4-week offset. I can't find the relative date that they instituted their lock down. They initially made a point of having a specific herd immunity policy, but have since backtracked as they have realised that this policy will overwhelm their healthcare provision. They also haven't been doing much testing and so their mortality rate looks much worse. As far as I can tell we were on the same path but changed tack and brought in restrictions sooner (relative to first outbreak).1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
British American Tobacco (BAT) has a potential coronavirus vaccine in development using tobacco plants.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/apr/01/british-american-tobacco-plant-based-coronavirus-vaccine
I can only assume this is an April fools joke.0 -
Well five days later he upped the lie tenfold https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2020/mar/25/uk-coronavirus-live-news-covid-19-pmqs-boris-johnson-parliament-to-close-early-for-easter-recesspblakeney said:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/mar/18/uk-coronavirus-testing-will-increase-to-25000-a-day-says-boris-johnsonsurrey_commuter said:
When did he promise 250,000? I suspect they will find upping the lie to be counterproductive. I am sure they have done the angry pointless question as a distraction which only leave blaming JF and denouncing the accuser as a traitor.rick_chasey said:2 weeks ago today BoJo promised 25,000 tests a day. Not even half they number
It will be a real test of voting for a monkey so long as it has a blue rosette when the monkey’s indolence and arrogance dramatically increases your chance of a horrible premature death.
To have any impact he would have to up to everybody in the country having a weekly test. Probably better to blame the foreigners.0 -
kingstongraham said:
I know the Dutch didn't lockdown until later, and wanted to be more cavalier with the spread, like the UK's initial response. They took longer to move on.
God he is good - has deflected you all into a pointless debate about the Netherlands.
Why not discuss Sweden as that would be us if Boris had held his nerve0 -
focuszing723 said:
British American Tobacco (BAT) has a potential coronavirus vaccine in development using tobacco plants.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/apr/01/british-american-tobacco-plant-based-coronavirus-vaccine
I can only assume this is an April fools joke.
It would be exceptionally poor taste to make an April Fool joke out of this topic. I’m not a Guardian reader but my general perception is that it is above such gutter journalism.0 -
I probably should have said sounds like an April fools joke.kingstonian said:focuszing723 said:British American Tobacco (BAT) has a potential coronavirus vaccine in development using tobacco plants.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/apr/01/british-american-tobacco-plant-based-coronavirus-vaccine
I can only assume this is an April fools joke.
It would be exceptionally poor taste to make an April Fool joke out of this topic. I’m not a Guardian reader but my general perception is that it is above such gutter journalism.0 -
focuszing723 said:
I probably should have said sounds like an April fools joke.kingstonian said:focuszing723 said:British American Tobacco (BAT) has a potential coronavirus vaccine in development using tobacco plants.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/apr/01/british-american-tobacco-plant-based-coronavirus-vaccine
I can only assume this is an April fools joke.
It would be exceptionally poor taste to make an April Fool joke out of this topic. I’m not a Guardian reader but my general perception is that it is above such gutter journalism.
Well, if it is, it's made it out into the wild... https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-04-01/coronavirus-vaccine-race-gets-unlikely-partner-big-tobacco0 -
Happy to. If it works for them, we can learn from it.surrey_commuter said:kingstongraham said:I know the Dutch didn't lockdown until later, and wanted to be more cavalier with the spread, like the UK's initial response. They took longer to move on.
God he is good - has deflected you all into a pointless debate about the Netherlands.
Why not discuss Sweden as that would be us if Boris had held his nerve
There's a sample of different approaches to compare.0 -
Funny, that. Who would have thought that Trump would have given Republican-controlled states all that they asked for, and not Democrat-controlled ones?
The US sinks lower by the day.
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None of them are that different. The only way to stop infections is isolation. It's just a question of when and how you isolate.kingstongraham said:
Happy to. If it works for them, we can learn from it.surrey_commuter said:kingstongraham said:I know the Dutch didn't lockdown until later, and wanted to be more cavalier with the spread, like the UK's initial response. They took longer to move on.
God he is good - has deflected you all into a pointless debate about the Netherlands.
Why not discuss Sweden as that would be us if Boris had held his nerve
There's a sample of different approaches to compare.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Not at all. It's interesting to see that they actually were doing the same thing as us but just pulled the lever a bit later.surrey_commuter said:kingstongraham said:I know the Dutch didn't lockdown until later, and wanted to be more cavalier with the spread, like the UK's initial response. They took longer to move on.
God he is good - has deflected you all into a pointless debate about the Netherlands.
Why not discuss Sweden as that would be us if Boris had held his nerve1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Sweden is different by quite a degree. It's basically the UK's original approach.rjsterry said:
None of them are that different. The only way to stop infections is isolation. It's just a question of when and how you isolate.kingstongraham said:
Happy to. If it works for them, we can learn from it.surrey_commuter said:kingstongraham said:I know the Dutch didn't lockdown until later, and wanted to be more cavalier with the spread, like the UK's initial response. They took longer to move on.
God he is good - has deflected you all into a pointless debate about the Netherlands.
Why not discuss Sweden as that would be us if Boris had held his nerve
There's a sample of different approaches to compare.
Belarus is different though, if you want another control group..
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Ooh now I know how Nostradamus must have felt! Maybe I can predict the lottery numbers too.briantrumpet said:Funny, that. Who would have thought that Trump would have given Republican-controlled states all that they asked for, and not Democrat-controlled ones?
The US sinks lower by the day.0 -
What a crap effort at question dodging - not sure we expected anything else though. Is it a bit uncomfortable for you being shown other countries faring worse than us?rick_chasey said:Stevo I don’t know much about the Dutch situation so I can’t really answer.
You seem to know a bit so enlighten me."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Get us back on track then, Mr. Angrysurrey_commuter said:kingstongraham said:I know the Dutch didn't lockdown until later, and wanted to be more cavalier with the spread, like the UK's initial response. They took longer to move on.
God he is good - has deflected you all into a pointless debate about the Netherlands.
Why not discuss Sweden as that would be us if Boris had held his nerve
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Oh well that is a relief. I've been going out of my mind worrying about who to feel superior to.Stevo_666 said:... other countries faring worse than us?
🇳🇱 0 - 1 🇬🇧 🙄
Not that it's even clear that they are doing worse than us. About half the number of deaths that we've had, which is what you would expect with the outbreak starting later there. Deaths since 3 cases, we look to be doing slightly worse from these charts, but again that's probably just our head start.
https://www.ft.com/coronavirus-latest
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Pross said:
Ooh now I know how Nostradamus must have felt! Maybe I can predict the lottery numbers too.briantrumpet said:Funny, that. Who would have thought that Trump would have given Republican-controlled states all that they asked for, and not Democrat-controlled ones?
The US sinks lower by the day.
A one-time Republican strategist who sees Trump for what he is wrote a book called 'Everything Trump Touches Dies' - I don't think even he foresaw that the dying would actually involve tens or hundreds of thousands of actual people through Trump's incompetence and inhumanity. But it's not entirely unsurprising when partisanship becomes the overriding political aim. History repeats itself.
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Looks like most of the front pages including the telegraph and mail are asking the same questions SC & others has been asking about the shambles that is testing and protective kit.0
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That shows that the Netherlands is a country with an outbreak of coronavirus, that has a relatively small population.Stevo_666 said:
See my post above and here it is again in case you claim you can't be bothered to look a few posts up the thread:rick_chasey said:
What is the data?Stevo_666 said:
As I have mentioned above, what other countries are doing and how they are faring in this common crisis is relevant.rick_chasey said:
Why have I focused on the UK's shortcomings? Because we all live in the UK and this is a UK forum. Who should we be discussing? India? Brazil? Monaco?Stevo_666 said:
You don't deny you are banging on about it. If weren't trying to imply we were bottom of the heap why the focus solely on the UK's perceived shortcomings? And point me to where you have said we are doing anything better than any other country.rick_chasey said:
Where have I said it's at the 'bottom of the heap'?Stevo_666 said:
It is very relevant when someone is continually banging on about how badly the UK is handling this crisis and making out that we are 'bottom of the heap'. When that does not appear to be the case looking at the facts.rick_chasey said:
It's not really relevant to the UK is it? I could also bang on about how terrible Iran has handled it but again.Stevo_666 said:
Maybe you should go and have a look - below is a link to help you. Their stats are markedly worse than ours on both a cases and deaths per million of population - and people there were still free to wander around outside until after we went into lock down.rick_chasey said:
I don't know anything about the Dutch response, but I do know their behaviour in the EU is shameful and they should be given a firm smack behind closed doors.Pross said:
Rick is unusually quiet on the way the Dutch are doing things whilst acting as though the UK response is the worst in Europe.ddraver said:See also the surgery in S. Wales who tried to persuade similar people to sign pre-emptive DNRs...
The Netherlands have certainly taken an interesting approach...
I do know there is a culture around quality of end-of-life and there are endless discussions about the perils of living too long or living with terrible health, and they are more fatalistic about their life than in the UK, so the idea of a Dr telling an 80 yr old man the above is not an enormous shock to me.
I have no idea if they're any better than the UK. I suspect on a very basic level, Netherlands, Scandis etc, have less poverty and so are naturally a little healthier on balance, but who knows.
https://worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
Have you considered going and preaching to the Dutch about what they're doing wrong?
If they've made the same mistake as the UK gov't had then shame on their gov't. They have not covered themselves in international glory already.
it's supposed to be a world leader in healthcare, but yet it can't equip the health staff, nor can it make anywhere near enough tests?
Do you think the shortage of protective kit for hospital staff is a problem? If not, why not?
Now care to answer my questions?
And care to comment on the Netherlands data? That's where you have strong family links to so reasonable to suppose it is relevant to you.
https://worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries
Specifically; cases per million population and deaths per million population.
So far, I think their absolute numbers are following the same as most other countries' outbreaks. If it starts to go steeper, then it indicates they've made worse choices. If new cases continue to rise, then they've made worse choices.0 -
Yeah, liar caught lying again is not a shocker. The fact that it is expected from our prime minister is more than disappointing.surrey_commuter said:
Well five days later he upped the lie tenfold https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2020/mar/25/uk-coronavirus-live-news-covid-19-pmqs-boris-johnson-parliament-to-close-early-for-easter-recesspblakeney said:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/mar/18/uk-coronavirus-testing-will-increase-to-25000-a-day-says-boris-johnsonsurrey_commuter said:
When did he promise 250,000? I suspect they will find upping the lie to be counterproductive. I am sure they have done the angry pointless question as a distraction which only leave blaming JF and denouncing the accuser as a traitor.rick_chasey said:2 weeks ago today BoJo promised 25,000 tests a day. Not even half they number
It will be a real test of voting for a monkey so long as it has a blue rosette when the monkey’s indolence and arrogance dramatically increases your chance of a horrible premature death.
To have any impact he would have to up to everybody in the country having a weekly test. Probably better to blame the foreigners.
Never mind, as long as we are better than Holland, eh?
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
The papers giveth and the papers taketh away“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0
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“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
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