The big Coronavirus thread

rjsterry

coopster_the_1st said:

Stevo_666 said:

coopster_the_1st said:

Stevo_666 said:

focuszing723 said:

Stevo_666 said:

Some good news on a device developed which will keep many Coronavirus patients out of intensive care:
https://telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/30/mercedes-f1-team-helps-create-breathing-aid-keep-coronavirus/

Yeah, good news. It goes to prove how cutting edge F1 is and how fast they can adapt to differing sets of rules and circumstance. Designed for situations like this really.

Yep, it's the speed and adaptability of companies and people that counts here. Especially in major crises like these which develop quickly and only happen once in a blue moon.

It's also great to pi$$ on the chips of those who have over the last 4 years decided all they can do is talk the UK down. Some are still doing it!

That's another reason for posting it This thread needs a bit of balance in that respect.

Worth mentioning it was developed in the UK...

It's similar to the British companies like of Dyson and Gtech who are in advanced stages of having solutions in providing the UK with more ventilators. Yet some are still blinded by their political views. These designs will also be produced in the UK, quickly and meeting the numbers required

It's great that they are getting involved. I've still not really understood why Dyson et al want to apparently reinvent something rather than just make more of them. Volume of production would seem to be the main issue.
I see what is "blinded by politics" in questioning why this mobilisation wasn't started a bit earlier, but we are where we are. Let's hope we are better prepared for the next wave.

coopster_the_1st

rjsterry said:

coopster_the_1st said:

Stevo_666 said:

coopster_the_1st said:

Stevo_666 said:

focuszing723 said:

Stevo_666 said:

Some good news on a device developed which will keep many Coronavirus patients out of intensive care:
https://telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/30/mercedes-f1-team-helps-create-breathing-aid-keep-coronavirus/

Yeah, good news. It goes to prove how cutting edge F1 is and how fast they can adapt to differing sets of rules and circumstance. Designed for situations like this really.

Yep, it's the speed and adaptability of companies and people that counts here. Especially in major crises like these which develop quickly and only happen once in a blue moon.

It's also great to pi$$ on the chips of those who have over the last 4 years decided all they can do is talk the UK down. Some are still doing it!

That's another reason for posting it This thread needs a bit of balance in that respect.

Worth mentioning it was developed in the UK...

It's similar to the British companies like of Dyson and Gtech who are in advanced stages of having solutions in providing the UK with more ventilators. Yet some are still blinded by their political views. These designs will also be produced in the UK, quickly and meeting the numbers required

It's great that they are getting involved. I've still not really understood why Dyson et al want to apparently reinvent something rather than just make more of them. Volume of production would seem to be the main issue.
I see what is "blinded by politics" in questioning why this mobilisation wasn't started a bit earlier, but we are where we are. Let's hope we are better prepared for the next wave.

It seems the likes of Dyson have found a way that will allow them to make these devices a lot faster from scratch. I believe the Dyson one does not require electricity to function.

This sort of innovation is a good thing for this country and the world.

I also can't help thinking that this has exposed the current producers and their previous stranglehold on the market and this is now why they are complaining in the news today where they cast doubt on the ventilator target.
The question we should be asking is why can someone like Dyson and MercedesF1 do this in a couple of weeks but the current supplier(s) have not over a number of years?

kingstongraham

German manufacturer of ventilators who doubled their production volume in February, and are now quadrupling it.

https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/german-ventilator-manufacturer-absolutely-mission-impossible-a-549d1e18-8c21-45f1-846f-cf5ca254b008

Stevo_666

Jeremy.89 said:

kingstongraham said:

Should there be a further debate about why our economic system encourages people with amazing skills who can come up with world changing ideas and produce life saving equipment at the drop of a hat to use that amazing brain power to make a car go round in circles a bit faster?

Surely all the physics/maths etc boffins getting into banking is a greater waste?

I'm sure you're not the first Jeremy to say that

Wheelspinner

If UK is anything like Australia in terms of the hospital procedures, then having an unlimited supply of ventilators will only address one stumbling block.

Hospitals here have noted than in order to be able to *use* the ventilator, the patient will require intubation, since there is no (common) use of the "bubble helmets" that assist in the lung pressurisation that the ventilator enables.

IN order for that intubation to be done, the patient has to be in ICU. The procedure itself is considered highly susceptible to infection transmission to the practitioner who does it, so it will NOT be done unless the medic is appropriately protected - masks, gowns, gloves, whatever. The instructions are that medical staff must not risk themselves.

The supplies of those items are also critically limited. The ventilator can only be of use if there is space in the ICU for the patient to be prepped correctly to use it (here at least).

YMMV - I dunno what the UK protocol is for those machines. Having Dyson et al produce another hundred thousand or so machines is a very helpful thing, but it may not be the only thing needed.

rjsterry

coopster_the_1st said:

rjsterry said:

coopster_the_1st said:

Stevo_666 said:

coopster_the_1st said:

Stevo_666 said:

focuszing723 said:

Stevo_666 said:

Some good news on a device developed which will keep many Coronavirus patients out of intensive care:
https://telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/30/mercedes-f1-team-helps-create-breathing-aid-keep-coronavirus/

Yeah, good news. It goes to prove how cutting edge F1 is and how fast they can adapt to differing sets of rules and circumstance. Designed for situations like this really.

Yep, it's the speed and adaptability of companies and people that counts here. Especially in major crises like these which develop quickly and only happen once in a blue moon.

It's also great to pi$$ on the chips of those who have over the last 4 years decided all they can do is talk the UK down. Some are still doing it!

That's another reason for posting it This thread needs a bit of balance in that respect.

Worth mentioning it was developed in the UK...

It's similar to the British companies like of Dyson and Gtech who are in advanced stages of having solutions in providing the UK with more ventilators. Yet some are still blinded by their political views. These designs will also be produced in the UK, quickly and meeting the numbers required

It's great that they are getting involved. I've still not really understood why Dyson et al want to apparently reinvent something rather than just make more of them. Volume of production would seem to be the main issue.
I see what is "blinded by politics" in questioning why this mobilisation wasn't started a bit earlier, but we are where we are. Let's hope we are better prepared for the next wave.

It seems the likes of Dyson have found a way that will allow them to make these devices a lot faster from scratch. I believe the Dyson one does not require electricity to function.

This sort of innovation is a good thing for this country and the world.

I also can't help thinking that this has exposed the current producers and their previous stranglehold on the market and this is now why they are complaining in the news today where they cast doubt on the ventilator target.
The question we should be asking is why can someone like Dyson and MercedesF1 do this in a couple of weeks but the current supplier(s) have not over a number of years?

I remember some conversation about batteries so that could be it. Got anything specific to back up your stranglehold proposition or is this just a guess? I would imagine with only one major customer in the UK, the buyer determines production.

Mercedes F1 is addressing a very different piece of equipment, but like Dyson will have a suddenly idle workforce with management looking to find paying employment for them. Nothing wrong with that of course, but fairly easy to see how they can do what they have done.

morstar

Wheelspinner said:

If UK is anything like Australia in terms of the hospital procedures, then having an unlimited supply of ventilators will only address one stumbling block.

Hospitals here have noted than in order to be able to *use* the ventilator, the patient will require intubation, since there is no (common) use of the "bubble helmets" that assist in the lung pressurisation that the ventilator enables.

IN order for that intubation to be done, the patient has to be in ICU. The procedure itself is considered highly susceptible to infection transmission to the practitioner who does it, so it will NOT be done unless the medic is appropriately protected - masks, gowns, gloves, whatever. The instructions are that medical staff must not risk themselves.

The supplies of those items are also critically limited. The ventilator can only be of use if there is space in the ICU for the patient to be prepped correctly to use it (here at least).

YMMV - I dunno what the UK protocol is for those machines. Having Dyson et al produce another hundred thousand or so machines is a very helpful thing, but it may not be the only thing needed.

Think that’s part of the appeal of the CPap machine.
More readily deployed and can assist cases where some intervention is required but full ventilator possibly overkill.
Also doesn’t require ICU bed.

ballysmate

Wheelspinner said:

If UK is anything like Australia in terms of the hospital procedures, then having an unlimited supply of ventilators will only address one stumbling block.

Hospitals here have noted than in order to be able to *use* the ventilator, the patient will require intubation, since there is no (common) use of the "bubble helmets" that assist in the lung pressurisation that the ventilator enables.

IN order for that intubation to be done, the patient has to be in ICU. The procedure itself is considered highly susceptible to infection transmission to the practitioner who does it, so it will NOT be done unless the medic is appropriately protected - masks, gowns, gloves, whatever. The instructions are that medical staff must not risk themselves.

The supplies of those items are also critically limited. The ventilator can only be of use if there is space in the ICU for the patient to be prepped correctly to use it (here at least).

YMMV - I dunno what the UK protocol is for those machines. Having Dyson et al produce another hundred thousand or so machines is a very helpful thing, but it may not be the only thing needed.

The ventilator issue is the thing being highlighted by the media but as you say, it is more complex.

Stevo_666

morstar said:

Wheelspinner said:

If UK is anything like Australia in terms of the hospital procedures, then having an unlimited supply of ventilators will only address one stumbling block.

Hospitals here have noted than in order to be able to *use* the ventilator, the patient will require intubation, since there is no (common) use of the "bubble helmets" that assist in the lung pressurisation that the ventilator enables.

IN order for that intubation to be done, the patient has to be in ICU. The procedure itself is considered highly susceptible to infection transmission to the practitioner who does it, so it will NOT be done unless the medic is appropriately protected - masks, gowns, gloves, whatever. The instructions are that medical staff must not risk themselves.

The supplies of those items are also critically limited. The ventilator can only be of use if there is space in the ICU for the patient to be prepped correctly to use it (here at least).

YMMV - I dunno what the UK protocol is for those machines. Having Dyson et al produce another hundred thousand or so machines is a very helpful thing, but it may not be the only thing needed.

Think that’s part of the appeal of the CPap machine.
More readily deployed and can assist cases where some intervention is required but full ventilator possibly overkill.
Also doesn’t require ICU bed.

That's right and effectively what it says in the link. Hence why its so useful as it avoids all the other things that are a part of intensive care, including both equipment and staff.

ddraver

Sorry for your loss Pross.

More tales from Verbier,

As I enter my 4th week of 'isolation' and the town enters it's 3rd, Posts on the community Facebook group have begun to take a turn for the frustrated. How long do I need to sit in my room now? Last week I felt down, had a funny taste in my mouth and didn't feel like I could drink enough fluids. Was that virus or was it the worse symptoms I had a month ago now? 3 housemates tested positive last week, 1 has left and 1 was negative. I was not tested. Why the difference?? Many people are starting to feel the same.

We must remain thankful that we are allowed out without forms or restrictions as long as we stay apart but many people - most of them (us?) being young and used to regular parties are wanting a bit of human interaction - this, generally, being the time of the season when we are able to relax and enjoy ourselves. Especially those of us whose housemates are perfectly civil but not really friends...

Always a night owl, my wake ups are getting later and later, especially as the weather isnt so good the past few days. Lord knows I'm not a genius but I require a little purposeful mental stimulation and The Tiger King does not provide it. Moods appear to go in waves, some days are good and some bad. In another age, it would be interesting to note that my knee pain appears to fluctuate in a similar way. Whilst I appreciate that clever people are working very hard on this, the antibody test is beginning to become a social necessity as people need to start living a life again.

elbowloh

I have my own cpap machine, the wife says she'll end up killing me if we had to donate it to the NHS! ;-)

TheBigBean

kingstongraham said:

Should there be a further debate about why our economic system encourages people with amazing skills who can come up with world changing ideas and produce life saving equipment at the drop of a hat to use that amazing brain power to make a car go round in circles a bit faster?

It is not all about the economic system. For example, it shouldn't be long until a GP can be replaced by a nurse and a computer. The computer having instant access to every possible condition and treatment. The problem is whether the medical profession will accept this.

Wheelspinner

TheBigBean said:

kingstongraham said:

Should there be a further debate about why our economic system encourages people with amazing skills who can come up with world changing ideas and produce life saving equipment at the drop of a hat to use that amazing brain power to make a car go round in circles a bit faster?

It is not all about the economic system. For example, it shouldn't be long until a GP can be replaced by a nurse and a computer. The computer having instant access to every possible condition and treatment. The problem is whether the medical profession will accept this.

Also whether the patient will accept it too.

ballysmate

TheBigBean said:

kingstongraham said:

Should there be a further debate about why our economic system encourages people with amazing skills who can come up with world changing ideas and produce life saving equipment at the drop of a hat to use that amazing brain power to make a car go round in circles a bit faster?

It is not all about the economic system. For example, it shouldn't be long until a GP can be replaced by a nurse and a computer. The computer having instant access to every possible condition and treatment. The problem is whether the medical profession will accept this.

Tbh my gp surgery has become little more than a referral office. No wonder hospitals were under pressure before the virus.

rjsterry

ballysmate said:

Wheelspinner said:

If UK is anything like Australia in terms of the hospital procedures, then having an unlimited supply of ventilators will only address one stumbling block.

Hospitals here have noted than in order to be able to *use* the ventilator, the patient will require intubation, since there is no (common) use of the "bubble helmets" that assist in the lung pressurisation that the ventilator enables.

IN order for that intubation to be done, the patient has to be in ICU. The procedure itself is considered highly susceptible to infection transmission to the practitioner who does it, so it will NOT be done unless the medic is appropriately protected - masks, gowns, gloves, whatever. The instructions are that medical staff must not risk themselves.

The supplies of those items are also critically limited. The ventilator can only be of use if there is space in the ICU for the patient to be prepped correctly to use it (here at least).

YMMV - I dunno what the UK protocol is for those machines. Having Dyson et al produce another hundred thousand or so machines is a very helpful thing, but it may not be the only thing needed.

The ventilator issue is the thing being highlighted by the media but as you say, it is more complex.

Agreed. I read somewhere this morning that the main limiting was staffing levels as each ICU bed needs ideally 5-6 nurses, so pretty easy to see why the Nightingale hospital is starting off with 'only' 500 beds.

kingstongraham

TheBigBean said:

kingstongraham said:

Should there be a further debate about why our economic system encourages people with amazing skills who can come up with world changing ideas and produce life saving equipment at the drop of a hat to use that amazing brain power to make a car go round in circles a bit faster?

It is not all about the economic system. For example, it shouldn't be long until a GP can be replaced by a nurse and a computer. The computer having instant access to every possible condition and treatment. The problem is whether the medical profession will accept this.

Completely not my point. I was thinking about how incentives can push the best people into the worst industries.

Stevo_666

kingstongraham said:

German manufacturer of ventilators who doubled their production volume in February, and are now quadrupling it.

https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/german-ventilator-manufacturer-absolutely-mission-impossible-a-549d1e18-8c21-45f1-846f-cf5ca254b008

Its also good to see German companies step up to address the expected shortage of ventilators in that country.

rjsterry

TheBigBean said:

kingstongraham said:

Should there be a further debate about why our economic system encourages people with amazing skills who can come up with world changing ideas and produce life saving equipment at the drop of a hat to use that amazing brain power to make a car go round in circles a bit faster?

It is not all about the economic system. For example, it shouldn't be long until a GP can be replaced by a nurse and a computer. The computer having instant access to every possible condition and treatment. The problem is whether the medical profession will accept this.

Professions/protected roles are part of the economic system. Not sure what timescale you mean by shouldn't be long, but success in one or two specific conditions seems like a big leap from your prediction when SC's surgery still uses a fax machine.

ballysmate

rjsterry said:

TheBigBean said:

kingstongraham said:

Should there be a further debate about why our economic system encourages people with amazing skills who can come up with world changing ideas and produce life saving equipment at the drop of a hat to use that amazing brain power to make a car go round in circles a bit faster?

It is not all about the economic system. For example, it shouldn't be long until a GP can be replaced by a nurse and a computer. The computer having instant access to every possible condition and treatment. The problem is whether the medical profession will accept this.

Professions/protected roles are part of the economic system. Not sure what timescale you mean by shouldn't be long, but success in one or two specific conditions seems like a big leap from your prediction when SC's surgery still uses a fax machine.

But tbf it has the UK's best supply of leeches.

mrfpb

coopster_the_1st said:

rjsterry said:

coopster_the_1st said:

Stevo_666 said:

coopster_the_1st said:

Stevo_666 said:

focuszing723 said:

Stevo_666 said:

Some good news on a device developed which will keep many Coronavirus patients out of intensive care:
https://telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/30/mercedes-f1-team-helps-create-breathing-aid-keep-coronavirus/

Yeah, good news. It goes to prove how cutting edge F1 is and how fast they can adapt to differing sets of rules and circumstance. Designed for situations like this really.

Yep, it's the speed and adaptability of companies and people that counts here. Especially in major crises like these which develop quickly and only happen once in a blue moon.

It's also great to pi$$ on the chips of those who have over the last 4 years decided all they can do is talk the UK down. Some are still doing it!

That's another reason for posting it This thread needs a bit of balance in that respect.

Worth mentioning it was developed in the UK...

It's similar to the British companies like of Dyson and Gtech who are in advanced stages of having solutions in providing the UK with more ventilators. Yet some are still blinded by their political views. These designs will also be produced in the UK, quickly and meeting the numbers required

It's great that they are getting involved. I've still not really understood why Dyson et al want to apparently reinvent something rather than just make more of them. Volume of production would seem to be the main issue.
I see what is "blinded by politics" in questioning why this mobilisation wasn't started a bit earlier, but we are where we are. Let's hope we are better prepared for the next wave.

It seems the likes of Dyson have found a way that will allow them to make these devices a lot faster from scratch. I believe the Dyson one does not require electricity to function.

This sort of innovation is a good thing for this country and the world.

I also can't help thinking that this has exposed the current producers and their previous stranglehold on the market and this is now why they are complaining in the news today where they cast doubt on the ventilator target.
The question we should be asking is why can someone like Dyson and MercedesF1 do this in a couple of weeks but the current supplier(s) have not over a number of years?

I suspect the removal of "burdonesome" procurement and QA processes may help. And the fact that we didn't need them before - see a certain former Mayor of London's comments on not procuring lots of expensive snow ploughs.

Stevo_666

kingstongraham said:

TheBigBean said:

kingstongraham said:

Should there be a further debate about why our economic system encourages people with amazing skills who can come up with world changing ideas and produce life saving equipment at the drop of a hat to use that amazing brain power to make a car go round in circles a bit faster?

It is not all about the economic system. For example, it shouldn't be long until a GP can be replaced by a nurse and a computer. The computer having instant access to every possible condition and treatment. The problem is whether the medical profession will accept this.

Completely not my point. I was thinking about how incentives can push the best people into the worst industries.

What incentives are you referring to?

And out of interest, who decides what are the 'worst' industries?

DeVlaeminck

ddraver said:

Sorry for your loss Pross.

More tales from Verbier,

As I enter my 4th week of 'isolation' and the town enters it's 3rd, Posts on the community Facebook group have begun to take a turn for the frustrated. How long do I need to sit in my room now? Last week I felt down, had a funny taste in my mouth and didn't feel like I could drink enough fluids. Was that virus or was it the worse symptoms I had a month ago now? 3 housemates tested negative last week, 1 has left and 1 was negative. I was not tested. Why the difference?? Many people are starting to feel the same.

We must remain thankful that we are allowed out without forms or restrictions as long as we stay apart but many people - most of them (us?) being young and used to regular parties are wanting a bit of human interaction - this, generally, being the time of the season when we are able to relax and enjoy ourselves. Especially those of us whose housemates are perfectly civil but not really friends...

Always a night owl, my wake ups are getting later and later, especially as the weather isnt so good the past few days. Lord knows I'm not a genius but I require a little purposeful mental stimulation and The Tiger King does not provide it. Moods appear to go in waves, some days are good and some bad. In another age, it would be interesting to note that my knee pain appears to fluctuate in a similar way. Whilst I appreciate that clever people are working very hard on this, the antibody test is beginning to become a social necessity as people need to start living a life again.

Did you not feel sorry for Joe Exotic?

Sounds absolutely crap - how long and how far are you allowed out - I've taken to going on long walks .

ddraver

^ I've just started it I admit,

Yeah we are allowed out as much as we can. People are ski touring and biking and stuff and I must say it does seem that people are being careful to stay within themselves. Walking is all I can do to pre-hab the knee for whenever the operation gets rescheduled so doing a lot of that.

I'm aware my situation will not elicit much sympathy, but thus far our little microcosm does track larger society and occupies an interesting position twixt Italy and UK/

Jeremy.89

rjsterry said:

coopster_the_1st said:

rjsterry said:

coopster_the_1st said:

Stevo_666 said:

coopster_the_1st said:

Stevo_666 said:

focuszing723 said:

Stevo_666 said:

Some good news on a device developed which will keep many Coronavirus patients out of intensive care:
https://telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/30/mercedes-f1-team-helps-create-breathing-aid-keep-coronavirus/

Yeah, good news. It goes to prove how cutting edge F1 is and how fast they can adapt to differing sets of rules and circumstance. Designed for situations like this really.

Yep, it's the speed and adaptability of companies and people that counts here. Especially in major crises like these which develop quickly and only happen once in a blue moon.

It's also great to pi$$ on the chips of those who have over the last 4 years decided all they can do is talk the UK down. Some are still doing it!

That's another reason for posting it This thread needs a bit of balance in that respect.

Worth mentioning it was developed in the UK...

It's similar to the British companies like of Dyson and Gtech who are in advanced stages of having solutions in providing the UK with more ventilators. Yet some are still blinded by their political views. These designs will also be produced in the UK, quickly and meeting the numbers required

It's great that they are getting involved. I've still not really understood why Dyson et al want to apparently reinvent something rather than just make more of them. Volume of production would seem to be the main issue.
I see what is "blinded by politics" in questioning why this mobilisation wasn't started a bit earlier, but we are where we are. Let's hope we are better prepared for the next wave.

It seems the likes of Dyson have found a way that will allow them to make these devices a lot faster from scratch. I believe the Dyson one does not require electricity to function.

This sort of innovation is a good thing for this country and the world.

I also can't help thinking that this has exposed the current producers and their previous stranglehold on the market and this is now why they are complaining in the news today where they cast doubt on the ventilator target.
The question we should be asking is why can someone like Dyson and MercedesF1 do this in a couple of weeks but the current supplier(s) have not over a number of years?

I remember some conversation about batteries so that could be it. Got anything specific to back up your stranglehold proposition or is this just a guess? I would imagine with only one major customer in the UK, the buyer determines production.

Mercedes F1 is addressing a very different piece of equipment, but like Dyson will have a suddenly idle workforce with management looking to find paying employment for them. Nothing wrong with that of course, but fairly easy to see how they can do what they have done.

The core competency of the medical equipment companies will likely be more to do with regulatory requirements than outright top class engineering (although arguably the F1 engineering is all about playing within the rulebook and finding out where the holes are)

Dyson see their core competency as moving air around, so it's not surprising that they have gone after this opportunity. I do think that in more normal times they might struggle to bring a product to market though.

Pross

I feel that Mercedes are getting slightly undue credit on that breathing system. Yes, it's great that they have stepped up to help get it manufactured in significant numbers and they deserve credit for adapting to help with that. However, from what I saw on TV this morning it was a product that was already in use and that was modified by medical scientists (at UCL I think from memory). All the headlines seem to imply that Mercedes F1 invented the thing.

mrfpb

Ye, UCL engineers provided the product design know how, Merc F1 did the scaled up production. Quite novel for an F1 team to mass produce something.

rjsterry

Pross said:

I feel that Mercedes are getting slightly undue credit on that breathing system. Yes, it's great that they have stepped up to help get it manufactured in significant numbers and they deserve credit for adapting to help with that. However, from what I saw on TV this morning it was a product that was already in use and that was modified by medical scientists (at UCL I think from memory). All the headlines seem to imply that Mercedes F1 invented the thing.

Similarly the news from other ventilator manufacturers was that they were gearing up to increase production but had been asked not to make a big fuss about it, only for the overpriced vacuum guy to barge in and shout about how wonderful he is being. Good luck to Dyson, but maybe he shouldn't give himself quite such a big pat on the back just yet.

Pross

mrfpb said:

Ye, UCL engineers provided the product design know how, Merc F1 did the scaled up production. Quite novel for an F1 team to mass produce something.

Yep, I was surprised that of all the companies it was a very specialist operation that ended up handling the manufacturing. I initially assumed they'd come up with the solution but then I guess they're used to having to turn things out quickly and to an extermely high standard.

kingstongraham

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

TheBigBean said:

kingstongraham said:

Should there be a further debate about why our economic system encourages people with amazing skills who can come up with world changing ideas and produce life saving equipment at the drop of a hat to use that amazing brain power to make a car go round in circles a bit faster?

It is not all about the economic system. For example, it shouldn't be long until a GP can be replaced by a nurse and a computer. The computer having instant access to every possible condition and treatment. The problem is whether the medical profession will accept this.

Completely not my point. I was thinking about how incentives can push the best people into the worst industries.

What incentives are you referring to?

I don't know - whichever incentives have caused them to make that choice.

kingstonian

Pross said:

mrfpb said:

Ye, UCL engineers provided the product design know how, Merc F1 did the scaled up production. Quite novel for an F1 team to mass produce something.

Yep, I was surprised that of all the companies it was a very specialist operation that ended up handling the manufacturing. I initially assumed they'd come up with the solution but then I guess they're used to having to turn things out quickly and to an extermely high standard.

I wonder if there is a desire in govnt to make a big thing of it to almost shame other companies into stepping up.

Also, to be fair the F1 team could have sat back and not bothered, but they've rolled up their sleeves and put their best people on it in a super-quick time so fair play