The big Coronavirus thread

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  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Fairly sharp pick up in Asia.

    perhaps they're heading into a second 'wave'.
    _
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,574
    India is the worrying one. Huge population and the lock down appears to have been botched leading to a mass migration out of cities.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • mrfpb
    mrfpb Posts: 4,569
    This should be a game changer. This is part of the instructions for the (strictly rationed) test kits now arriving at my workplace:

    6. TEST RESULTS AND INTERPRETATION
    6.1. A single coloured line (Control line) visible
    Negative result.
    In an individual with symptoms, this indicates they are very early on in the infection stage and therefore isolation for 7 days is advised.
    In an individual without symptoms, this indicates they have not been infected by the absence of antibodies. The individual should continue to observe good infection control hygiene practice and guidance.
    6.2. 2 coloured lines (Control line and IgM) visible
    Positive result
    This indicates that the individual has just developed antibodies and therefore can be a source of infection. The individual should isolate for 7 days
    6.3. 3 coloured lines (Control line, IgM and IgG) visible
    Positive result
    This indicates that the individual has developed immunity and almost out of the infection phase. This individual can carry on working/return to work if member of staff. Should it be a patients they will not need to isolate.

    6.4. 2 coloured lines (Control line and IgG) Visible
    Positive Result
    This indicates that the individual has developed long lasting immunity
    This individual can carry on working/return to work if member of staff. Should it be a patients there will not need to isolate.

    6.5. The results of the test should be recorded on the monitoring form, Covid-19 IgG-IgM Rapid Test Log, with all the fields completed to ensure we are able to collect the data. Please ensure you note all the actions taken after the test.


    So that's a single test for both current presence of the virus, previous infection and immunity.
  • mrfpb
    mrfpb Posts: 4,569
    The test takes about 15 minutes (including ten waiting for the lines to appear).
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,154
    That's fantastic. Whoever was involved in
    developing this test is a hero.

    Is that a blood finger pr!ck test?
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,428
    rick_chasey said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:



    Liars.

    You install fervent hardliners and you get sub-standard decision making. In a crisis that literally costs lives.
    This doesn't make my top 10 Coronavirus criticisms of the government.
    Some people are looking very hard to find criticisms. I suppose it gives them a purpose now the Brexit thread is in hibernation.
    Rightly or wrongly, the death scorecard at the end of all of this is how all governments will be measured.

    Worth remembering that when rubbishing concerns that the gov't isn't handling this well.

    i think my response to Sunak's budget demonstrates beyond doubt I don't give a sh!t who is making the decisions, as long as they are the ones I think are right.

    Unlike you, I should add.
    I didn't mention anyone by name ;)
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,428
    mrfpb said:

    This should be a game changer. This is part of the instructions for the (strictly rationed) test kits now arriving at my workplace:

    6. TEST RESULTS AND INTERPRETATION
    6.1. A single coloured line (Control line) visible
    Negative result.
    In an individual with symptoms, this indicates they are very early on in the infection stage and therefore isolation for 7 days is advised.
    In an individual without symptoms, this indicates they have not been infected by the absence of antibodies. The individual should continue to observe good infection control hygiene practice and guidance.
    6.2. 2 coloured lines (Control line and IgM) visible
    Positive result
    This indicates that the individual has just developed antibodies and therefore can be a source of infection. The individual should isolate for 7 days
    6.3. 3 coloured lines (Control line, IgM and IgG) visible
    Positive result
    This indicates that the individual has developed immunity and almost out of the infection phase. This individual can carry on working/return to work if member of staff. Should it be a patients they will not need to isolate.

    6.4. 2 coloured lines (Control line and IgG) Visible
    Positive Result
    This indicates that the individual has developed long lasting immunity
    This individual can carry on working/return to work if member of staff. Should it be a patients there will not need to isolate.

    6.5. The results of the test should be recorded on the monitoring form, Covid-19 IgG-IgM Rapid Test Log, with all the fields completed to ensure we are able to collect the data. Please ensure you note all the actions taken after the test.

    So that's a single test for both current presence of the virus, previous infection and immunity.


    Agree, game changer.

    Are you a key worker mrfpb? Now wondering how long before these are generally available.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,151
    kingstongraham said:

    That's fantastic. Whoever was involved in
    developing this test is a hero.

    Is that a blood finger pr!ck test?

    Yeah, if that is proved to work it will make a big difference. Quick too!
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    focuszing723 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    That's fantastic. Whoever was involved in
    developing this test is a hero.

    Is that a blood finger pr!ck test?

    Yeah, if that is proved to work it will make a big difference. Quick too!
    If they can make a billion of them then yes it's a good way of getting some way back to normality without putting people at unnecessary risk.
    _
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,151
    rick_chasey said:

    focuszing723 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    That's fantastic. Whoever was involved in
    developing this test is a hero.

    Is that a blood finger pr!ck test?

    Yeah, if that is proved to work it will make a big difference. Quick too!
    If they can make a billion of them then yes it's a good way of getting some way back to normality without putting people at unnecessary risk.
    I was thinking more the people in the front line who have to self isolate. Allow them to feel secure and able to contribute.
  • mrfpb
    mrfpb Posts: 4,569
    Stevo_666 said:

    mrfpb said:

    This should be a game changer. This is part of the instructions for the (strictly rationed) test kits now arriving at my workplace:

    6. TEST RESULTS AND INTERPRETATION
    6.1. A single coloured line (Control line) visible
    Negative result.
    In an individual with symptoms, this indicates they are very early on in the infection stage and therefore isolation for 7 days is advised.
    In an individual without symptoms, this indicates they have not been infected by the absence of antibodies. The individual should continue to observe good infection control hygiene practice and guidance.
    6.2. 2 coloured lines (Control line and IgM) visible
    Positive result
    This indicates that the individual has just developed antibodies and therefore can be a source of infection. The individual should isolate for 7 days
    6.3. 3 coloured lines (Control line, IgM and IgG) visible
    Positive result
    This indicates that the individual has developed immunity and almost out of the infection phase. This individual can carry on working/return to work if member of staff. Should it be a patients they will not need to isolate.

    6.4. 2 coloured lines (Control line and IgG) Visible
    Positive Result
    This indicates that the individual has developed long lasting immunity
    This individual can carry on working/return to work if member of staff. Should it be a patients there will not need to isolate.

    6.5. The results of the test should be recorded on the monitoring form, Covid-19 IgG-IgM Rapid Test Log, with all the fields completed to ensure we are able to collect the data. Please ensure you note all the actions taken after the test.

    So that's a single test for both current presence of the virus, previous infection and immunity.
    Agree, game changer.

    Are you a key worker mrfpb? Now wondering how long before these are generally available.

    I'm with a private NHS contractor. We have 2,000 kits to cover a UK wide operation, with 2,000 more to come. That's less than one per patient, let alone staff.

    It can be done with blood from any route, including fingerprick.
  • kingstonian
    kingstonian Posts: 2,847
    that's a big step forward. Will no doubt take time to ramp up production and then distribute etc but it is positive nonetheless.
  • coopster_the_1st
    coopster_the_1st Posts: 5,158
    edited March 2020
    mrfpb said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    mrfpb said:

    This should be a game changer. This is part of the instructions for the (strictly rationed) test kits now arriving at my workplace:

    6. TEST RESULTS AND INTERPRETATION
    6.1. A single coloured line (Control line) visible
    Negative result.
    In an individual with symptoms, this indicates they are very early on in the infection stage and therefore isolation for 7 days is advised.
    In an individual without symptoms, this indicates they have not been infected by the absence of antibodies. The individual should continue to observe good infection control hygiene practice and guidance.
    6.2. 2 coloured lines (Control line and IgM) visible
    Positive result
    This indicates that the individual has just developed antibodies and therefore can be a source of infection. The individual should isolate for 7 days
    6.3. 3 coloured lines (Control line, IgM and IgG) visible
    Positive result
    This indicates that the individual has developed immunity and almost out of the infection phase. This individual can carry on working/return to work if member of staff. Should it be a patients they will not need to isolate.

    6.4. 2 coloured lines (Control line and IgG) Visible
    Positive Result
    This indicates that the individual has developed long lasting immunity
    This individual can carry on working/return to work if member of staff. Should it be a patients there will not need to isolate.

    6.5. The results of the test should be recorded on the monitoring form, Covid-19 IgG-IgM Rapid Test Log, with all the fields completed to ensure we are able to collect the data. Please ensure you note all the actions taken after the test.

    So that's a single test for both current presence of the virus, previous infection and immunity.
    Agree, game changer.

    Are you a key worker mrfpb? Now wondering how long before these are generally available.

    I'm with a private NHS contractor. We have 2,000 kits to cover a UK wide operation, with 2,000 more to come. That's less than one per patient, let alone staff.

    It can be done with blood from any route, including fingerprick.
    These are great step forward.

    From the reporting I have seen they were going to concentrate the first tests on front line NHS staff. That way they can get a good idea of the spread of the virus in the general population. Is this how you are aware this testing happening?
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,428
    The other thing that the instructions clearly imply is that once you had the illness and have the antibodies, then you do have natural immunity. I think there were previously some questions over whether you could catch it again.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • bompington
    bompington Posts: 7,674
    Stevo_666 said:

    The other thing that the instructions clearly imply is that once you had the illness and have the antibodies, then you do have natural immunity. I think there were previously some questions over whether you could catch it again.

    Unless there's anything more definitive come out in the last couple of days, this isn't proven scientifically yet but the evidence so far suggests that this is the case.
  • mrfpb
    mrfpb Posts: 4,569
    Stevo_666 said:

    The other thing that the instructions clearly imply is that once you had the illness and have the antibodies, then you do have natural immunity. I think there were previously some questions over whether you could catch it again.

    I've seen nothing that confirms that you can't catch it again. I'm hoping it's not just an assumption by the manufacturers.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,428
    I was hoping that they would have checked this point first - assumption being the mother of all **** ups etc.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • focuszing723
    focuszing723 Posts: 8,151
    I would have thought it's a safe assumption, otherwise why bother with vaccines?
  • orraloon
    orraloon Posts: 13,230
    Would be totally sensible to concentrate on front line NHS et all workers.

    Example. Stepson is an NHS call handler, takes the 999s. He developed a bit of a wheeze and throat (we are into tree pollen season) and his view is that in normal times he would simply have taken a lemsip and throat lozenge and carried on at work. Instead he is at home, not at work for 7 days isolation, just in case, thereby unable to contribute and adding to the overstretch on those still in work.

    So a reliable check would be a v good thing indeed.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    mrfpb said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    mrfpb said:

    This should be a game changer. This is part of the instructions for the (strictly rationed) test kits now arriving at my workplace:

    6. TEST RESULTS AND INTERPRETATION
    6.1. A single coloured line (Control line) visible
    Negative result.
    In an individual with symptoms, this indicates they are very early on in the infection stage and therefore isolation for 7 days is advised.
    In an individual without symptoms, this indicates they have not been infected by the absence of antibodies. The individual should continue to observe good infection control hygiene practice and guidance.
    6.2. 2 coloured lines (Control line and IgM) visible
    Positive result
    This indicates that the individual has just developed antibodies and therefore can be a source of infection. The individual should isolate for 7 days
    6.3. 3 coloured lines (Control line, IgM and IgG) visible
    Positive result
    This indicates that the individual has developed immunity and almost out of the infection phase. This individual can carry on working/return to work if member of staff. Should it be a patients they will not need to isolate.

    6.4. 2 coloured lines (Control line and IgG) Visible
    Positive Result
    This indicates that the individual has developed long lasting immunity
    This individual can carry on working/return to work if member of staff. Should it be a patients there will not need to isolate.

    6.5. The results of the test should be recorded on the monitoring form, Covid-19 IgG-IgM Rapid Test Log, with all the fields completed to ensure we are able to collect the data. Please ensure you note all the actions taken after the test.

    So that's a single test for both current presence of the virus, previous infection and immunity.
    Agree, game changer.

    Are you a key worker mrfpb? Now wondering how long before these are generally available.
    I'm with a private NHS contractor. We have 2,000 kits to cover a UK wide operation, with 2,000 more to come. That's less than one per patient, let alone staff.

    It can be done with blood from any route, including fingerprick.


    Assuming a negative test how soon would they suggest a follow up test.
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,698
    Stevo_666 said:

    I was hoping that they would have checked this point first - assumption being the mother of all **** ups etc.

    Other way round I think. They need the antibody test in order to test if people are immune or not...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • mrfpb
    mrfpb Posts: 4,569
    surrey_commuter said:

    mrfpb said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    mrfpb said:

    This should be a game changer. This is part of the instructions for the (strictly rationed) test kits now arriving at my workplace:

    6. TEST RESULTS AND INTERPRETATION
    6.1. A single coloured line (Control line) visible
    Negative result.
    In an individual with symptoms, this indicates they are very early on in the infection stage and therefore isolation for 7 days is advised.
    In an individual without symptoms, this indicates they have not been infected by the absence of antibodies. The individual should continue to observe good infection control hygiene practice and guidance.
    6.2. 2 coloured lines (Control line and IgM) visible
    Positive result
    This indicates that the individual has just developed antibodies and therefore can be a source of infection. The individual should isolate for 7 days
    6.3. 3 coloured lines (Control line, IgM and IgG) visible
    Positive result
    This indicates that the individual has developed immunity and almost out of the infection phase. This individual can carry on working/return to work if member of staff. Should it be a patients they will not need to isolate.

    6.4. 2 coloured lines (Control line and IgG) Visible
    Positive Result
    This indicates that the individual has developed long lasting immunity
    This individual can carry on working/return to work if member of staff. Should it be a patients there will not need to isolate.

    6.5. The results of the test should be recorded on the monitoring form, Covid-19 IgG-IgM Rapid Test Log, with all the fields completed to ensure we are able to collect the data. Please ensure you note all the actions taken after the test.

    So that's a single test for both current presence of the virus, previous infection and immunity.
    Agree, game changer.

    Are you a key worker mrfpb? Now wondering how long before these are generally available.
    I'm with a private NHS contractor. We have 2,000 kits to cover a UK wide operation, with 2,000 more to come. That's less than one per patient, let alone staff.

    It can be done with blood from any route, including fingerprick.
    Assuming a negative test how soon would they suggest a follow up test.

    Did I mention they will be rationed? None have reached a front line site yet. I'm WFH so not sure how quickly this is happening.

    Current policy in house is that only symptomatic patients or staff will get tested. Patients get MEWS obs done twice daily, staff are offered temperature checks twice daily. So symptoms should be spotted earlier than just waiting for a persistent cough to develop.
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,648
    orraloon said:

    Would be totally sensible to concentrate on front line NHS et all workers.

    Example. Stepson is an NHS call handler, takes the 999s. He developed a bit of a wheeze and throat (we are into tree pollen season) and his view is that in normal times he would simply have taken a lemsip and throat lozenge and carried on at work. Instead he is at home, not at work for 7 days isolation, just in case, thereby unable to contribute and adding to the overstretch on those still in work.

    So a reliable check would be a v good thing indeed.

    Is that not a job they can do remotely? Or do they not have the IT infrastructure.
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Eventually they will need to test everyone and keep testing everyone, so you will need around a billion just for Europe, assuming each person will on average need three tests.

    The challenge isn't really developing a test - it is developing a test you can make 100s of millions of in fairly short notice.
    _
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,154
    Something I didn't understand was the James McAvoy story where he was donating to get PPE for the NHS.

    Surely it isn't lack of funds?????
  • mrfpb
    mrfpb Posts: 4,569
    pangolin said:

    orraloon said:

    Would be totally sensible to concentrate on front line NHS et all workers.

    Example. Stepson is an NHS call handler, takes the 999s. He developed a bit of a wheeze and throat (we are into tree pollen season) and his view is that in normal times he would simply have taken a lemsip and throat lozenge and carried on at work. Instead he is at home, not at work for 7 days isolation, just in case, thereby unable to contribute and adding to the overstretch on those still in work.

    So a reliable check would be a v good thing indeed.

    Is that not a job they can do remotely? Or do they not have the IT infrastructure.
    More to do with IG and GDPR safeguards and the whole cofidentiality issue. Also the work is too stressful to do in your own home. Staff need access to face to face debrief. Otherwise, who are you going to vent to after a bad call? The wife and kids?
  • coopster_the_1st
    coopster_the_1st Posts: 5,158
    Stevo_666 said:

    I was hoping that they would have checked this point first - assumption being the mother of all **** ups etc.

    This is a laymans view from what I have read/heard.

    Covid-19 is in the same group of viruses as the common cold. So once you have had C19 your body has the mechanism to produce the anti-bodies to stop you getting the virus again. However your body over time (1-2 years) forgets how to produce these anti-bodies unless it is stimulated to do so again (ie has to fight the virus).

    It seems like the scientists believe they can produce a vaccine, however I'm guessing that it will have to be administered every year.

    However I don't know if herd immunity will cause C19 to die out. Logic says over a number of years it will do as to stay alive it needs to find hosts that are not immune to it.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    In hindsight, how on earth was the gov't going to do 'herd immunity' without any testing?

    The response until about March 15th in hindsight looks absolutely terrible.
    _
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,921
    rick_chasey said:

    Eventually they will need to test everyone and keep testing everyone, so you will need around a billion just for Europe, assuming each person will on average need three tests.

    The challenge isn't really developing a test - it is developing a test you can make 100s of millions of in fairly short notice.

    You may only need to test those at high risk and sample the rest of the population to see if herd immunity has been reached.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    rick_chasey said:

    Eventually they will need to test everyone and keep testing everyone, so you will need around a billion just for Europe, assuming each person will on average need three tests.

    The challenge isn't really developing a test - it is developing a test you can make 100s of millions of in fairly short notice.

    Not really, there comes a point of diminishing returns.

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