The big Coronavirus thread
Comments
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That fits with the Contractors I have heard from. They are having to close sites principally because too much of their labour is off sick. This in an industry where if you don't turn up you don't get paid. You can see why this might also be a big issue in the NHS and how muttering about unnecessary restrictions to save a few people who were about to die anyway might be missing the point.surrey_commuter said:Infection rates in groups of people still working seem to be running at 30%, if so death rate is negligible and we will soon have herd immunity.
Health warning is that these infection rates are based on people not turning up to work1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
It's interesting to see how in just a week we have gone from the majority on here and on my Facebook feed have gone from pretty much all accepting the lockdown and moved into those who think it doesn't go far enough and those who think it can't / shouldn't be sustained. I'm certainly seeing less of the 'look at the really funny things we're doing to keep our spirits up' videos already.
I think the latter camp better get used to the idea because it's going to get more stringent before it improves.
I wonder if the difference is down to those who are seeing the worst of the health side of it and those who are seeing the financial impacts more?0 -
Is there any correlation too where they are? I Imagine if you lived in a sleepy village it would all feel a bit pointless.Pross said:It's interesting to see how in just a week we have gone from the majority on here and on my Facebook feed have gone from pretty much all accepting the lockdown and moved into those who think it doesn't go far enough and those who think it can't / shouldn't be sustained. I'm certainly seeing less of the 'look at the really funny things we're doing to keep our spirits up' videos already.
I think the latter camp better get used to the idea because it's going to get more stringent before it improves.
I wonder if the difference is down to those who are seeing the worst of the health side of it and those who are seeing the financial impacts more?0 -
That's my thinking. If you don't know anyone who has had more than mild symptoms but at the same time you are in danger of losing your job / business then the shutdown will seem excessive. If you know of a lot of people who've been hospitalised, know people working on the frontline at an affected hospital or are in a busy city where people are still grouping together then the measures may not seem strong enough.0
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That is the same here so at least we are comparing like with like.kingstongraham said:
I guess it makes sense not to use limited resources to find out what somebody in a care home died of.0 -
I'm not certain it'll get more stringent - I know Boris has warned that it might but they must be aware that as someone mentioned above people are not now blindly accepting the existing measures especially when there are inconsistencies such as flights from areas of high infection still arriving in the UK with zero restrictions. Some people will resent being told (for example) that they can only spend a 30 minutes outside the house or must stay within a km of their front door when that actually creates a greater risk of cross infection than being allowed to ride/walk/run to a less built up area.Pross said:It's interesting to see how in just a week we have gone from the majority on here and on my Facebook feed have gone from pretty much all accepting the lockdown and moved into those who think it doesn't go far enough and those who think it can't / shouldn't be sustained. I'm certainly seeing less of the 'look at the really funny things we're doing to keep our spirits up' videos already.
I think the latter camp better get used to the idea because it's going to get more stringent before it improves.
I wonder if the difference is down to those who are seeing the worst of the health side of it and those who are seeing the financial impacts more?[Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]0 -
Faisal Islam is all over the U.K’s shambles when it comes to either importing or manufacturing the kit for doctors.
It’s a long thread he keeps adding to over days but work looking at.
Rather worrying that drs are already running or have run out of kit and we are nowhere near the peak.0 -
Anecdotal evidence (nurses on twitter) from NYC sounds like they’ve hit the “wartime triage” threshold.
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The only good thing about idiots breaking the guidelines (Kinnocks for example) is that if they do catch it they will then become immune, so can't spread it on. As long as enough people give the NHS and support services a fighting chance.Pross said:That's my thinking. If you don't know anyone who has had more than mild symptoms but at the same time you are in danger of losing your job / business then the shutdown will seem excessive. If you know of a lot of people who've been hospitalised, know people working on the frontline at an affected hospital or are in a busy city where people are still grouping together then the measures may not seem strong enough.
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Listening to Radio 3 this morning, they have ditched most news bulletins due to short staff at BBC NEWS. One bulletin in a 3 hr show at 8:00 broadcast across R2, R3 ans 5 Live.0
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Do you remember the Police publicly shaming any actual criminals on Twitter before all this? No me neither.focuszing723 said:
The only good thing about idiots breaking the guidelines (Kinnocks for example) is that if they do catch it they will then become immune, so can't spread it on. As long as enough people give the NHS and support services a fighting chance.Pross said:That's my thinking. If you don't know anyone who has had more than mild symptoms but at the same time you are in danger of losing your job / business then the shutdown will seem excessive. If you know of a lot of people who've been hospitalised, know people working on the frontline at an affected hospital or are in a busy city where people are still grouping together then the measures may not seem strong enough.
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Give it a rest Shortfall, your police state paranoia is getting boring now. It's public shaming to give the support services a chance to deal with the exceptional circumstances.shortfall said:
Do you remember the Police publicly shaming any actual criminals on Twitter before all this? No me neither.focuszing723 said:
The only good thing about idiots breaking the guidelines (Kinnocks for example) is that if they do catch it they will then become immune, so can't spread it on. As long as enough people give the NHS and support services a fighting chance.Pross said:That's my thinking. If you don't know anyone who has had more than mild symptoms but at the same time you are in danger of losing your job / business then the shutdown will seem excessive. If you know of a lot of people who've been hospitalised, know people working on the frontline at an affected hospital or are in a busy city where people are still grouping together then the measures may not seem strong enough.
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Short memory then? This is not a new thing.shortfall said:
Do you remember the Police publicly shaming any actual criminals on Twitter before all this? No me neither.focuszing723 said:
The only good thing about idiots breaking the guidelines (Kinnocks for example) is that if they do catch it they will then become immune, so can't spread it on. As long as enough people give the NHS and support services a fighting chance.Pross said:That's my thinking. If you don't know anyone who has had more than mild symptoms but at the same time you are in danger of losing your job / business then the shutdown will seem excessive. If you know of a lot of people who've been hospitalised, know people working on the frontline at an affected hospital or are in a busy city where people are still grouping together then the measures may not seem strong enough.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
shortfall said:
Do you remember the Police publicly shaming any actual criminals on Twitter before all this? No me neither.focuszing723 said:
The only good thing about idiots breaking the guidelines (Kinnocks for example) is that if they do catch it they will then become immune, so can't spread it on. As long as enough people give the NHS and support services a fighting chance.Pross said:That's my thinking. If you don't know anyone who has had more than mild symptoms but at the same time you are in danger of losing your job / business then the shutdown will seem excessive. If you know of a lot of people who've been hospitalised, know people working on the frontline at an affected hospital or are in a busy city where people are still grouping together then the measures may not seem strong enough.
Perhaps that is a measure of the problem we face.
If the country faced a massive terrorist threat I'm sure the people moaning now about the police enforcing any restrictions would be the same ones calling for more stringent powers.0 -
Not any old publication, but the Lancet, has published this:
https://doi.org/10.1016/S0140-6736(20)30727-3Offline: COVID-19 and the NHS—“a national scandal”
Here are the opening lines“When this is all over, the NHS England board should resign in their entirety.” So wrote one National Health Service (NHS) health worker last weekend. The scale of anger and frustration is unprecedented, and coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) is the cause. The UK Government's Contain–Delay–Mitigate–Research strategy failed0 -
Yes, it happens all the time with my local force.shortfall said:
Do you remember the Police publicly shaming any actual criminals on Twitter before all this? No me neither.focuszing723 said:
The only good thing about idiots breaking the guidelines (Kinnocks for example) is that if they do catch it they will then become immune, so can't spread it on. As long as enough people give the NHS and support services a fighting chance.Pross said:That's my thinking. If you don't know anyone who has had more than mild symptoms but at the same time you are in danger of losing your job / business then the shutdown will seem excessive. If you know of a lot of people who've been hospitalised, know people working on the frontline at an affected hospital or are in a busy city where people are still grouping together then the measures may not seem strong enough.
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You obviously think former Supreme Court judge Jonathan Sumption who last week warned about a Police State emerging in an essay published in the Times is also paranoid? Funny that, I thought you lot were keen on experts. Maybe Cycleclinic had a point last week when he said this forum was hostile to opposing views. Let's see how the land lies in a few months.focuszing723 said:
Give it a rest Shortfall, your police state paranoia is getting boring now. It's public shaming to give the support services a chance to deal with the exceptional circumstances.shortfall said:
Do you remember the Police publicly shaming any actual criminals on Twitter before all this? No me neither.focuszing723 said:
The only good thing about idiots breaking the guidelines (Kinnocks for example) is that if they do catch it they will then become immune, so can't spread it on. As long as enough people give the NHS and support services a fighting chance.Pross said:That's my thinking. If you don't know anyone who has had more than mild symptoms but at the same time you are in danger of losing your job / business then the shutdown will seem excessive. If you know of a lot of people who've been hospitalised, know people working on the frontline at an affected hospital or are in a busy city where people are still grouping together then the measures may not seem strong enough.
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I'm pretty certain it's going to happen. The company my wife manages has been asked to register all their staff ready for enforcement of only critical services being able to travel for work.DeVlaeminck said:
I'm not certain it'll get more stringent - I know Boris has warned that it might but they must be aware that as someone mentioned above people are not now blindly accepting the existing measures especially when there are inconsistencies such as flights from areas of high infection still arriving in the UK with zero restrictions. Some people will resent being told (for example) that they can only spend a 30 minutes outside the house or must stay within a km of their front door when that actually creates a greater risk of cross infection than being allowed to ride/walk/run to a less built up area.Pross said:It's interesting to see how in just a week we have gone from the majority on here and on my Facebook feed have gone from pretty much all accepting the lockdown and moved into those who think it doesn't go far enough and those who think it can't / shouldn't be sustained. I'm certainly seeing less of the 'look at the really funny things we're doing to keep our spirits up' videos already.
I think the latter camp better get used to the idea because it's going to get more stringent before it improves.
I wonder if the difference is down to those who are seeing the worst of the health side of it and those who are seeing the financial impacts more?0 -
shortfall said:
Do you remember the Police publicly shaming any actual criminals on Twitter before all this? No me neither.focuszing723 said:
The only good thing about idiots breaking the guidelines (Kinnocks for example) is that if they do catch it they will then become immune, so can't spread it on. As long as enough people give the NHS and support services a fighting chance.Pross said:That's my thinking. If you don't know anyone who has had more than mild symptoms but at the same time you are in danger of losing your job / business then the shutdown will seem excessive. If you know of a lot of people who've been hospitalised, know people working on the frontline at an affected hospital or are in a busy city where people are still grouping together then the measures may not seem strong enough.
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That lancet article is the most damning piece I have read about the NHS in a long long time. Absolutely brutal.
You can feel the anger.0 -
Bloody fascists shaming poor drug dealers going about their business.kingstongraham said:shortfall said:
Do you remember the Police publicly shaming any actual criminals on Twitter before all this? No me neither.focuszing723 said:
The only good thing about idiots breaking the guidelines (Kinnocks for example) is that if they do catch it they will then become immune, so can't spread it on. As long as enough people give the NHS and support services a fighting chance.Pross said:That's my thinking. If you don't know anyone who has had more than mild symptoms but at the same time you are in danger of losing your job / business then the shutdown will seem excessive. If you know of a lot of people who've been hospitalised, know people working on the frontline at an affected hospital or are in a busy city where people are still grouping together then the measures may not seem strong enough.
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I'm not being hostile, just stating fact. It doesn't matter what anyone posts, your complete agenda is to push it to a police state. That's it from me I won't be feeding another one of your paranoid gambits.shortfall said:
You obviously think former Supreme Court judge Jonathan Sumption who last week warned about a Police State emerging in an essay published in the Times is also paranoid? Funny that, I thought you lot were keen on experts. Maybe Cycleclinic had a point last week when he said this forum was hostile to opposing views. Let's see how the land lies in a few months.focuszing723 said:
Give it a rest Shortfall, your police state paranoia is getting boring now. It's public shaming to give the support services a chance to deal with the exceptional circumstances.shortfall said:
Do you remember the Police publicly shaming any actual criminals on Twitter before all this? No me neither.focuszing723 said:
The only good thing about idiots breaking the guidelines (Kinnocks for example) is that if they do catch it they will then become immune, so can't spread it on. As long as enough people give the NHS and support services a fighting chance.Pross said:That's my thinking. If you don't know anyone who has had more than mild symptoms but at the same time you are in danger of losing your job / business then the shutdown will seem excessive. If you know of a lot of people who've been hospitalised, know people working on the frontline at an affected hospital or are in a busy city where people are still grouping together then the measures may not seem strong enough.
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Absolutely loaded with brutal commentsrick_chasey said:Not any old publication, but the Lancet, has published this:
https://doi.org/10.1016/S0140-6736(20)30727-3Offline: COVID-19 and the NHS—“a national scandal”
Here are the opening lines“When this is all over, the NHS England board should resign in their entirety.” So wrote one National Health Service (NHS) health worker last weekend. The scale of anger and frustration is unprecedented, and coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19) is the cause. The UK Government's Contain–Delay–Mitigate–Research strategy failedThe situation is so dire that staff are frequently breaking down in tears. As one physician wrote, “The utter failure of sound clinical leadership will lead to an absolute explosion of nosocomial COVID-19 infection.” Front-line staff are already contracting and dying from the disease.0 -
And on the point of the economic benefits of social distancing in a pandemic?This paper estimates and monetizes the impact of moderate social distancing on deaths due to
COVID-19 in the United States. Using the Imperial College simulation model of COVID-19’s
spread and mortality impacts (Ferguson et al. 2020), we project that moderate social distancing
would save 1.7 million lives between March 1 and October 1, with 630,000 due to avoided
overwhelming of hospital intensive care units. Using the projected age-specific reductions in
death and age-varying estimates of the value of a statistical life (VSL), we find that the mortality benefits of social distancing are over $8 trillion or $60,000 per US household. About 90% of the monetized benefits are projected to accrue to people age 50 or older. Overall, the analysis
suggests that social distancing initiatives and policies in response to the COVID-19 epidemic
have substantial economic benefits.
https://bfi.uchicago.edu/wp-content/uploads/BFI_WP_202026.pdf?fbclid=IwAR2-s82W8dpUCu1KjK_fnkuPwSKw0E3TB6SQQzropRbKb9rjg4Qs4u5uwMc0 -
I have no issue with what Stephen Kinnock did and the reasons for doing it, possible his only error was posting it on Twitter.focuszing723 said:
The only good thing about idiots breaking the guidelines (Kinnocks for example) is that if they do catch it they will then become immune, so can't spread it on. As long as enough people give the NHS and support services a fighting chance.Pross said:That's my thinking. If you don't know anyone who has had more than mild symptoms but at the same time you are in danger of losing your job / business then the shutdown will seem excessive. If you know of a lot of people who've been hospitalised, know people working on the frontline at an affected hospital or are in a busy city where people are still grouping together then the measures may not seem strong enough.
I do have an issue with the way the police responded. If I was Stephen Kinnock I would have replied to the police message "F*ck off".The police needed to use common sense here and did not.1 -
My sister-in-law is a GP and is terrified by what's coming down the line.rick_chasey said:The situation is so dire that staff are frequently breaking down in tears. As one physician wrote, “The utter failure of sound clinical leadership will lead to an absolute explosion of nosocomial COVID-19 infection.” Front-line staff are already contracting and dying from the disease.
Data out of Italy suggests that medical staff are at greater risk due to the nature of their exposure to the virus.
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
No my agenda is to question the efficacy of the lockdown and the wider implications that might have in terms of lives ruined and overall deaths and whether the assault on civil liberties is justified. Looks like most of you prefer the echo chamber though. Please put me on mute if you don't like me putting forward my dissenting views in a polite and calm manner.focuszing723 said:
I'm not being hostile, just stating fact. It doesn't matter what anyone posts, your complete agenda is to push it to a police state. That's it from me I won't be feeding another one of your paranoid gambits.shortfall said:
You obviously think former Supreme Court judge Jonathan Sumption who last week warned about a Police State emerging in an essay published in the Times is also paranoid? Funny that, I thought you lot were keen on experts. Maybe Cycleclinic had a point last week when he said this forum was hostile to opposing views. Let's see how the land lies in a few months.focuszing723 said:
Give it a rest Shortfall, your police state paranoia is getting boring now. It's public shaming to give the support services a chance to deal with the exceptional circumstances.shortfall said:
Do you remember the Police publicly shaming any actual criminals on Twitter before all this? No me neither.focuszing723 said:
The only good thing about idiots breaking the guidelines (Kinnocks for example) is that if they do catch it they will then become immune, so can't spread it on. As long as enough people give the NHS and support services a fighting chance.Pross said:That's my thinking. If you don't know anyone who has had more than mild symptoms but at the same time you are in danger of losing your job / business then the shutdown will seem excessive. If you know of a lot of people who've been hospitalised, know people working on the frontline at an affected hospital or are in a busy city where people are still grouping together then the measures may not seem strong enough.
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It's amazing how often the police make arses of themselves on social media.
“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0
