The big Coronavirus thread
Comments
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Yep, it's no criticism of Mercedes F1. I think it's more just to do with the reporting - it makes it sexier if F1 is 'developing' new technology rather than a bunch of nerdy medical engineers.kingstonian said:Pross said:
Yep, I was surprised that of all the companies it was a very specialist operation that ended up handling the manufacturing. I initially assumed they'd come up with the solution but then I guess they're used to having to turn things out quickly and to an extermely high standard.mrfpb said:Ye, UCL engineers provided the product design know how, Merc F1 did the scaled up production. Quite novel for an F1 team to mass produce something.
I wonder if there is a desire in govnt to make a big thing of it to almost shame other companies into stepping up.
Also, to be fair the F1 team could have sat back and not bothered, but they've rolled up their sleeves and put their best people on it in a super-quick time so fair play0 -
I think they can’t stop worrying about the presentation so want to give some good PR to Brexit supporters and attach themselves to companies like RR and F1. Not as glamorous as Buggins metal basher in the West Midlandskingstonian said:Pross said:
Yep, I was surprised that of all the companies it was a very specialist operation that ended up handling the manufacturing. I initially assumed they'd come up with the solution but then I guess they're used to having to turn things out quickly and to an extermely high standard.mrfpb said:Ye, UCL engineers provided the product design know how, Merc F1 did the scaled up production. Quite novel for an F1 team to mass produce something.
I wonder if there is a desire in govnt to make a big thing of it to almost shame other companies into stepping up.
Also, to be fair the F1 team could have sat back and not bothered, but they've rolled up their sleeves and put their best people on it in a super-quick time so fair play
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Many doctors would list themselves as the best people. Many other people would do too. No one bats an eyelid about the person who invented or improved the ventilator. In contrast, if the same person makes a F1 car faster by a nano second, there would be all round appreciation shown from his/her team.Your point, I think, is that that is simply economics and the F1 team pays more. My point is that I wonder how much of it is do with being valued in other ways.kingstongraham said:
Completely not my point. I was thinking about how incentives can push the best people into the worst industries.TheBigBean said:
It is not all about the economic system. For example, it shouldn't be long until a GP can be replaced by a nurse and a computer. The computer having instant access to every possible condition and treatment. The problem is whether the medical profession will accept this.kingstongraham said:Should there be a further debate about why our economic system encourages people with amazing skills who can come up with world changing ideas and produce life saving equipment at the drop of a hat to use that amazing brain power to make a car go round in circles a bit faster?
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There's certainly a whiff of that.surrey_commuter said:
I think they can’t stop worrying about the presentation so want to give some good PR to Brexit supporters and attach themselves to companies like RR and F1. Not as glamorous as Buggins metal basher in the West Midlandskingstonian said:Pross said:
Yep, I was surprised that of all the companies it was a very specialist operation that ended up handling the manufacturing. I initially assumed they'd come up with the solution but then I guess they're used to having to turn things out quickly and to an extermely high standard.mrfpb said:Ye, UCL engineers provided the product design know how, Merc F1 did the scaled up production. Quite novel for an F1 team to mass produce something.
I wonder if there is a desire in govnt to make a big thing of it to almost shame other companies into stepping up.
Also, to be fair the F1 team could have sat back and not bothered, but they've rolled up their sleeves and put their best people on it in a super-quick time so fair play1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
I doubt the F1 team pays more. Not before bonuses at any rate.TheBigBean said:
Many doctors would list themselves as the best people. Many other people would do too. No one bats an eyelid about the person who invented or improved the ventilator. In contrast, if the same person makes a F1 car faster by a nano second, there would be all round appreciation shown from his/her team.Your point, I think, is that that is simply economics and the F1 team pays more. My point is that I wonder how much of it is do with being valued in other ways.kingstongraham said:
Completely not my point. I was thinking about how incentives can push the best people into the worst industries.TheBigBean said:
It is not all about the economic system. For example, it shouldn't be long until a GP can be replaced by a nurse and a computer. The computer having instant access to every possible condition and treatment. The problem is whether the medical profession will accept this.kingstongraham said:Should there be a further debate about why our economic system encourages people with amazing skills who can come up with world changing ideas and produce life saving equipment at the drop of a hat to use that amazing brain power to make a car go round in circles a bit faster?
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I read an article a while ago which said "a few years", but it is not something I have looked into. I was using it to make a point. There's a lot wrong with GP surgeries, but I think that is for another thread.rjsterry said:
Professions/protected roles are part of the economic system. Not sure what timescale you mean by shouldn't be long, but success in one or two specific conditions seems like a big leap from your prediction when SC's surgery still uses a fax machine.TheBigBean said:
It is not all about the economic system. For example, it shouldn't be long until a GP can be replaced by a nurse and a computer. The computer having instant access to every possible condition and treatment. The problem is whether the medical profession will accept this.kingstongraham said:Should there be a further debate about why our economic system encourages people with amazing skills who can come up with world changing ideas and produce life saving equipment at the drop of a hat to use that amazing brain power to make a car go round in circles a bit faster?
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I know trumpeters dribble a lot, but choirs seem to be a dangerous place to be...
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So if these people are the best, what incentivises them to choose to devote their lives to improving an F1 car?Jeremy.89 said:
I doubt the F1 team pays more. Not before bonuses at any rate.TheBigBean said:
Many doctors would list themselves as the best people. Many other people would do too. No one bats an eyelid about the person who invented or improved the ventilator. In contrast, if the same person makes a F1 car faster by a nano second, there would be all round appreciation shown from his/her team.Your point, I think, is that that is simply economics and the F1 team pays more. My point is that I wonder how much of it is do with being valued in other ways.kingstongraham said:
Completely not my point. I was thinking about how incentives can push the best people into the worst industries.TheBigBean said:
It is not all about the economic system. For example, it shouldn't be long until a GP can be replaced by a nurse and a computer. The computer having instant access to every possible condition and treatment. The problem is whether the medical profession will accept this.kingstongraham said:Should there be a further debate about why our economic system encourages people with amazing skills who can come up with world changing ideas and produce life saving equipment at the drop of a hat to use that amazing brain power to make a car go round in circles a bit faster?
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I'm doomed then, I sing in two choirs! Luckily the one stopped quite quickly and before any shutdown as the every age of members must be well over 70 with a lot of them having worked in heavy industry with its long term health issues.0
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Because (i) they like F1 racing and (ii) they are valued. In contrast, there are plenty of people with a god complex, which broadly equates to liking F1, but presumably don't feel sufficiently valued working in some industries such as medicine.kingstongraham said:
So if these people are the best, what incentivises them to choose to devote their lives to improving an F1 car?Jeremy.89 said:
I doubt the F1 team pays more. Not before bonuses at any rate.TheBigBean said:
Many doctors would list themselves as the best people. Many other people would do too. No one bats an eyelid about the person who invented or improved the ventilator. In contrast, if the same person makes a F1 car faster by a nano second, there would be all round appreciation shown from his/her team.Your point, I think, is that that is simply economics and the F1 team pays more. My point is that I wonder how much of it is do with being valued in other ways.kingstongraham said:
Completely not my point. I was thinking about how incentives can push the best people into the worst industries.TheBigBean said:
It is not all about the economic system. For example, it shouldn't be long until a GP can be replaced by a nurse and a computer. The computer having instant access to every possible condition and treatment. The problem is whether the medical profession will accept this.kingstongraham said:Should there be a further debate about why our economic system encourages people with amazing skills who can come up with world changing ideas and produce life saving equipment at the drop of a hat to use that amazing brain power to make a car go round in circles a bit faster?
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Pross said:
I'm doomed then, I sing in two choirs! Luckily the one stopped quite quickly and before any shutdown as the every age of members must be well over 70 with a lot of them having worked in heavy industry with its long term health issues.
I thought of you when I saw that. It does suggest that it had already spread widely in the US before any measures were taken... that's an astonishing level of infection.0 -
Hmmm, go and design some widget to go in a medical machine, that will take years to develop with countless design reviews that add little to the process, or go work in a sport that you've watched for years, where you have to produce a new prototype car every year which needs updating through the season. Which sounds more interesting?kingstongraham said:
So if these people are the best, what incentivises them to choose to devote their lives to improving an F1 car?Jeremy.89 said:
I doubt the F1 team pays more. Not before bonuses at any rate.TheBigBean said:
Many doctors would list themselves as the best people. Many other people would do too. No one bats an eyelid about the person who invented or improved the ventilator. In contrast, if the same person makes a F1 car faster by a nano second, there would be all round appreciation shown from his/her team.Your point, I think, is that that is simply economics and the F1 team pays more. My point is that I wonder how much of it is do with being valued in other ways.kingstongraham said:
Completely not my point. I was thinking about how incentives can push the best people into the worst industries.TheBigBean said:
It is not all about the economic system. For example, it shouldn't be long until a GP can be replaced by a nurse and a computer. The computer having instant access to every possible condition and treatment. The problem is whether the medical profession will accept this.kingstongraham said:Should there be a further debate about why our economic system encourages people with amazing skills who can come up with world changing ideas and produce life saving equipment at the drop of a hat to use that amazing brain power to make a car go round in circles a bit faster?
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Maybe there are different mutations passing around, or it depends how much of the virus a person comes into contact with?0
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Indeed, I never said it was an easy problem to solve.Jeremy.89 said:
Hmmm, go and design some widget to go in a medical machine, that will take years to develop with countless design reviews that add little to the process, or go work in a sport that you've watched for years, where you have to produce a new prototype car every year which needs updating through the season. Which sounds more interesting?kingstongraham said:
So if these people are the best, what incentivises them to choose to devote their lives to improving an F1 car?Jeremy.89 said:
I doubt the F1 team pays more. Not before bonuses at any rate.TheBigBean said:
Many doctors would list themselves as the best people. Many other people would do too. No one bats an eyelid about the person who invented or improved the ventilator. In contrast, if the same person makes a F1 car faster by a nano second, there would be all round appreciation shown from his/her team.Your point, I think, is that that is simply economics and the F1 team pays more. My point is that I wonder how much of it is do with being valued in other ways.kingstongraham said:
Completely not my point. I was thinking about how incentives can push the best people into the worst industries.TheBigBean said:
It is not all about the economic system. For example, it shouldn't be long until a GP can be replaced by a nurse and a computer. The computer having instant access to every possible condition and treatment. The problem is whether the medical profession will accept this.kingstongraham said:Should there be a further debate about why our economic system encourages people with amazing skills who can come up with world changing ideas and produce life saving equipment at the drop of a hat to use that amazing brain power to make a car go round in circles a bit faster?
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Interesting interview with Lord Sumpton- https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m000gt59. Starts at 17 minutes.0
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'Viral load' does seem to be an issue, and why so many medics are getting infected or dying. The more exposure (time and amount) people have (so the theory goes), the more you are likely to succumb. Well, some people are suggesting that, though the jury's out as yet... https://www.newscientist.com/article/2238819-does-a-high-viral-load-or-infectious-dose-make-covid-19-worse/focuszing723 said:Maybe there are different mutations passing around, or it depends how much of the virus a person comes into contact with?
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Viral load plays a role in how bad an infection is though there isn't any evidence of this for this one. Some people are just unlucky. There are perfectly healthy people who die from viral infections that wouldn't cause other people many problems.focuszing723 said:Some first hand reality.
Maybe there are different mutations passing around, or it depends how much of the virus a person comes into contact with?
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Yes. I certainly wouldn't want to make light of it and I have heard about those cases too.nickice said:
Viral load plays a role in how bad an infection is though there isn't any evidence of this for this one. Some people are just unlucky. There are perfectly healthy people who die from viral infections that wouldn't cause other people many problems.focuszing723 said:Some first hand reality.
Maybe there are different mutations passing around, or it depends how much of the virus a person comes into contact with?0 -
Professor Neil Ferguson says there are signs of spread are slowing and that we can credit social distancing measures. Wouldn't it be too early to attribute to the lock down rather than voluntary social distancing, in which case, you do wonder if it was necessary.1
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Yep, definitely. Just one example.nickice said:
Viral load plays a role in how bad an infection is though there isn't any evidence of this for this one. Some people are just unlucky. There are perfectly healthy people who die from viral infections that wouldn't cause other people many problems.focuszing723 said:Some first hand reality.
Maybe there are different mutations passing around, or it depends how much of the virus a person comes into contact with?0 -
I want out for a walk with our baby today. Streets almost deserted but half of the few people I did see were wearing masks. I even saw someone driving wearing a mask the other day. If you could catch it walking on near-deserted streets, everyone would have it.0
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I think this is a positive development. If we get used to wearing masks out and about, there'll be fewer lockdowns.0
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Why not just get use to staying 2m apart?kingstongraham said:I think this is a positive development. If we get used to wearing masks out and about, there'll be fewer lockdowns.
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I understand your point but I think there is a certain element of paranoia. Firstly, surgical masks are not particularly effective (most people are wearing those types) and they should consider saving any masks for occasions where they might be more necessary (e.g. the supermarket).kingstongraham said:I think this is a positive development. If we get used to wearing masks out and about, there'll be fewer lockdowns.
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Any mask reduces the amount of germs spread from the wearer. This has to be a good thing.nickice said:
I understand your point but I think there is a certain element of paranoia. Firstly, surgical masks are not particularly effective (most people are wearing those types) and they should consider saving any masks for occasions where they might be more necessary (e.g. the supermarket).kingstongraham said:I think this is a positive development. If we get used to wearing masks out and about, there'll be fewer lockdowns.
It also stops you touching your face.0 -
Or avoid being in a confined space with someone for 15 minutes or longer. People are treating this like it's some kind of supervirus that can be easily caught by just walking past someone.coopster_the_1st said:
Why not just get use to staying 2m apart?kingstongraham said:I think this is a positive development. If we get used to wearing masks out and about, there'll be fewer lockdowns.
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Shouldn't we all all be wearing masks all the time then? I'm as worried about this as everyone but there seems to be mass hysteria going on here.kingstongraham said:
Any mask reduces the amount of germs spread from the wearer. This has to be a good thing.nickice said:
I understand your point but I think there is a certain element of paranoia. Firstly, surgical masks are not particularly effective (most people are wearing those types) and they should consider saving any masks for occasions where they might be more necessary (e.g. the supermarket).kingstongraham said:I think this is a positive development. If we get used to wearing masks out and about, there'll be fewer lockdowns.
It also stops you touching your face.
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I actually wonder if I'm currently fighting it. Have felt pretty ropey for much of last week and particularly since Thursday, with aching limbs but no fever or dry cough. Went to bed early last night, slept for 11 hours (which is unheard of for me) and was sweating like a pig all night. Woke up this morning and it felt that I'd been kicked by a horse, but have slowly felt better as the day has progressed. Could well just be one of the million other flu-like bugs circling around, but don't know for sure.
My wife dialled the NHS helpline number and as expected once they'd triaged that I'm a) not geriatric, b) don't have underlying breathing conditions, and c) don't currently have difficulty breathing, told her I should just rest up at home and forget about it.
It did make me realise that until sufficient tests, which are swift and easy to administer, are available to the masses there'll be loads of NHS/Police/other frontline workers that will have the same symptoms as me and end up being confined to their house for 2 weeks when in reality it is probably something fairly minor and 4-5 days of recovery is all that's needed.1 -
You may well have had it. One person I know in France currently has a suspected case of it (her boss and boss's husband also had it) as well as two other couples who are friends of my wife's cousin. None of these people are counted in the official statistics. I think it's a little late for flu, isn't it?0
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Overall I agree with you however I do think the old and vulnerable should be very cautious.nickice said:
Or avoid being in a confined space with someone for 15 minutes or longer. People are treating this like it's some kind of supervirus that can be easily caught by just walking past someone.coopster_the_1st said:
Why not just get use to staying 2m apart?kingstongraham said:I think this is a positive development. If we get used to wearing masks out and about, there'll be fewer lockdowns.
This paranoia is going to take years to unwind and some of those who were neurotic with cleaning before this (we all know at least one person like this). What are they going to be like now?
This Japanese proverb is very relevant right now “fear is often greater than the danger itself”1
