The big Coronavirus thread

rick_chasey

TheBigBean said:

Former nursery has business interruption insurance which includes pandemics, but the insurer is claiming that because corona is a new disease it is not included within the policy. Boo to the insurer.

I suspect that will be easily challenged if it does indeed include 'pandemics' in the contract.

Longshot

TheBigBean said:

Former nursery has business interruption insurance which includes pandemics, but the insurer is claiming that because corona is a new disease it is not included within the policy. Boo to the insurer.

I've also been told that by one of our tenants who were looking to claim. Not sure which insurance company.

Dorset_Boy

https://abi.org.uk/news/news-articles/2020/03/statement-on-business-insurance-and-coronavirus/

Most policies will not cover closure even if it's enforced closure by the State.

pblakeney

Insurance companies are going to struggle in the future if that plays out.
I doubt there will be much sympathy.

Longshot

Dorset_Boy said:

https://abi.org.uk/news/news-articles/2020/03/statement-on-business-insurance-and-coronavirus/

Most policies will not cover closure even if it's enforced closure by the State.

OK, but it seems somewhat unfair if the business interruption (not closure) policy covers other diseases but not ones as yet known or named at the start of the policy. I guess you could argue 'read the small print' but even so...

TheBigBean

kingstongraham said:

TheBigBean said:

Former nursery has business interruption insurance which includes pandemics, but the insurer is claiming that because corona is a new disease it is not included within the policy. Boo to the insurer.

wut?

Pandemic included a specified list of possible diseases apparently. As corona wasn't around, it wasn't included.

kingstongraham

oof.

Pross

TheBigBean said:

kingstongraham said:

TheBigBean said:

Former nursery has business interruption insurance which includes pandemics, but the insurer is claiming that because corona is a new disease it is not included within the policy. Boo to the insurer.

wut?

Pandemic included a specified list of possible diseases apparently. As corona wasn't around, it wasn't included.

I heard the same from a pub owner on the radio at lunchtime. Said all the discussion about whether the Government forced them to close or advised them to was irrelevant from an insurance point of view as the insurer wasn't going to cover the outbreak. That said, Coronavirus isn't new just the Covid-19 strain.

kingstongraham

I seriously cannot imagine what it must feel like to be one of the decision makers now. Every choice is horrific, and every decision costs lives, regardless of what you decide.

Longshot

We are already getting a number of calls from tenants who will be unable to meet their rent commitments (in full or part) for the March quarter day next week. The restaurants were obvious but the diversity and number of affected businesses is sobering. We're working with them all at the moment but we can't do that forever even though we're in a much stronger position than many given that a) we are privately owned and b) we're geared very low and can cover our commitments from reserves for some time.

Pross

kingstongraham said:

I seriously cannot imagine what it must feel like to be one of the decision makers now. Every choice is horrific, and every decision costs lives, regardless of what you decide.

Exactly, it's very easy to criticise but ultimately there isn't really anything much to help them make their decisions in recent memory and the world has changed vastly since similar pandemics. All the decisions and modelling are based on some form of guesswork and I don't see any way that a health service can be set up in a way that can easily adjust to situations like this.

Stevo_666

Sunak has just unveiled a £330bn bailout package for the UK economy.

Pross

Stevo_666 said:

Sunak has just unveiled a £330bn bailout package for the UK economy.

I'll see your French €300 billion and raise you!

Hopefully the reality will be that those who need it can get access without too much hassle and red tape as quick access will be the key to many businesses surviving. It's a huge sum of money but I suspect the financial and social implications of the potential unemployment without it would be more damaging.

twotoebenny

kingstongraham said:

TheBigBean said:

Former nursery has business interruption insurance which includes pandemics, but the insurer is claiming that because corona is a new disease it is not included within the policy. Boo to the insurer.

wut?

Insurance is a racket. I've had critical illness for >20 years. Over the last few years I've been diagnosed with a number of chronic illnesses that weren't "specified" so don't count.

surrey_commuter

Pross said:

Stevo_666 said:

Sunak has just unveiled a £330bn bailout package for the UK economy.

I'll see your French €300 billion and raise you!

Hopefully the reality will be that those who need it can get access without too much hassle and red tape as quick access will be the key to many businesses surviving. It's a huge sum of money but I suspect the financial and social implications of the potential unemployment without it would be more damaging.

14 days to hit the quarterly rent and monthly wages, not a chance of Govt sorting anything.

With everything else they have p1ssed against the wall that will get debt well over 100% and soaring like a rocket.

surrey_commuter

Pross said:

kingstongraham said:

I seriously cannot imagine what it must feel like to be one of the decision makers now. Every choice is horrific, and every decision costs lives, regardless of what you decide.

Exactly, it's very easy to criticise but ultimately there isn't really anything much to help them make their decisions in recent memory and the world has changed vastly since similar pandemics. All the decisions and modelling are based on some form of guesswork and I don't see any way that a health service can be set up in a way that can easily adjust to situations like this.

You really think we have nothing to learn from other countries who have had the current virus?

Interesting story about Obama - every decision is hard (ie lose lose) because if it was easy it would not reach my desk. So don’t feel sorry for them as they chose the role.

rick_chasey

surrey_commuter said:

Pross said:

Stevo_666 said:

Sunak has just unveiled a £330bn bailout package for the UK economy.

I'll see your French €300 billion and raise you!

Hopefully the reality will be that those who need it can get access without too much hassle and red tape as quick access will be the key to many businesses surviving. It's a huge sum of money but I suspect the financial and social implications of the potential unemployment without it would be more damaging.

14 days to hit the quarterly rent and monthly washes, not a chance of Govt sorting anything.

With everything else they have p1ssed against the wall that will get debt well over 100% and soaring like a rocket.

It's more prudent to keep the economy from absolutely tanking. The cost is worth it.

Not quite sure you're appreciating how much the economy is tanking by.

surrey_commuter

awavey said:

rick_chasey said:

Pross said:

surrey_commuter said:

This thread is only six days old.

Am I right in thinking the PM has binned his strategy already?

Has he? When I heard the CSA talking last week he was talking about moving away from containment to slowing the rate of spread when the time was right. Isn't this just that change of focus? The main change seems to be that he has belatedly accepted that he needs to personally be seen communicating with the country.

I'm still not sure what people think other countries are doing that is better. Singapore, South Korea and Japan seem to be having better results but other than that the world seems to be on variations of the same theme as us. There really does seem to be a very fine line between minimising loss of life and minimising catastrophic impact on the economy and I'm not sure it's possible to walk it.

They’re doing a lot different.

but I dont see that as theyve binned their strategy at all, the strategy was and still is, Contain, Delay,(Research) & Mitigate, we moved from Contain to Delay, even the news reporters who appeared half alseep in yesterdays press conference at least picked that bit up.

moving to Delay means the virus has become established in the UK, and further measures to reduce the rate and extent of the spread then happen, which include social distancing, encouraging wfh if possible, reducing large scale gatherings etc etc.

and thats exactly what is happening now we are firmly in Delay,and those measures will escalate if the spread increases rapidly in spite of these curtailment actions, theyve been open and honest about saying that.

so think of the strategy as absolutely nothing has been ruled out, just because this week theyve said we arent doing specifically this type of action yet, doesnt mean next week wont be the moment it happens instead, timing has been stressed throughout as the critical thing, and the right timing at that.

Well the initial strategy was do nothing, from memory contain lasted about 4 days. So a day into delay, how long do you think it will last.

Do you think he abandoned Delay because he realised he is an idiot or because the electorate found out he was prepared to sacrifice half a million of them

Pross

surrey_commuter said:

Pross said:

kingstongraham said:

I seriously cannot imagine what it must feel like to be one of the decision makers now. Every choice is horrific, and every decision costs lives, regardless of what you decide.

Exactly, it's very easy to criticise but ultimately there isn't really anything much to help them make their decisions in recent memory and the world has changed vastly since similar pandemics. All the decisions and modelling are based on some form of guesswork and I don't see any way that a health service can be set up in a way that can easily adjust to situations like this.

You really think we have nothing to learn from other countries who have had the current virus?

Interesting story about Obama - every decision is hard (ie lose lose) because if it was easy it would not reach my desk. So don’t feel sorry for them as they chose the role.

I've never said that, in fact I've asked several times without any real answer what others are doing that people we should be following and why. It feels like we're on a very similar path to others so I'm not sure why you are so convinced it is wrong.

Of course politicians are paid for making decisions in difficult circumstances but not many have to deal with something like this. It's unprecedented in my lifetime and surely the biggest global crisis since WW2. Sorting that for a salary of £150k? No thanks.

rjsterry

surrey_commuter said:

awavey said:

rick_chasey said:

Pross said:

surrey_commuter said:

This thread is only six days old.

Am I right in thinking the PM has binned his strategy already?

Has he? When I heard the CSA talking last week he was talking about moving away from containment to slowing the rate of spread when the time was right. Isn't this just that change of focus? The main change seems to be that he has belatedly accepted that he needs to personally be seen communicating with the country.

I'm still not sure what people think other countries are doing that is better. Singapore, South Korea and Japan seem to be having better results but other than that the world seems to be on variations of the same theme as us. There really does seem to be a very fine line between minimising loss of life and minimising catastrophic impact on the economy and I'm not sure it's possible to walk it.

They’re doing a lot different.

but I dont see that as theyve binned their strategy at all, the strategy was and still is, Contain, Delay,(Research) & Mitigate, we moved from Contain to Delay, even the news reporters who appeared half alseep in yesterdays press conference at least picked that bit up.

moving to Delay means the virus has become established in the UK, and further measures to reduce the rate and extent of the spread then happen, which include social distancing, encouraging wfh if possible, reducing large scale gatherings etc etc.

and thats exactly what is happening now we are firmly in Delay,and those measures will escalate if the spread increases rapidly in spite of these curtailment actions, theyve been open and honest about saying that.

so think of the strategy as absolutely nothing has been ruled out, just because this week theyve said we arent doing specifically this type of action yet, doesnt mean next week wont be the moment it happens instead, timing has been stressed throughout as the critical thing, and the right timing at that.

Well the initial strategy was do nothing, from memory contain lasted about 4 days. So a day into delay, how long do you think it will last.

Do you think he abandoned Delay because he realised he is an idiot or because the electorate found out he was prepared to sacrifice half a million of them

We get it. You hate Johnson with a passion but right now he is the only PM we've got. I can't begin to guess why you think any of this is his idea. He's not an originator of ideas.

surrey_commuter

Pross said:

surrey_commuter said:

Pross said:

kingstongraham said:

I seriously cannot imagine what it must feel like to be one of the decision makers now. Every choice is horrific, and every decision costs lives, regardless of what you decide.

Exactly, it's very easy to criticise but ultimately there isn't really anything much to help them make their decisions in recent memory and the world has changed vastly since similar pandemics. All the decisions and modelling are based on some form of guesswork and I don't see any way that a health service can be set up in a way that can easily adjust to situations like this.

You really think we have nothing to learn from other countries who have had the current virus?

Interesting story about Obama - every decision is hard (ie lose lose) because if it was easy it would not reach my desk. So don’t feel sorry for them as they chose the role.

I've never said that, in fact I've asked several times without any real answer what others are doing that people we should be following and why. It feels like we're on a very similar path to others so I'm not sure why you are so convinced it is wrong.

Of course politicians are paid for making decisions in difficult circumstances but not many have to deal with something like this. It's unprecedented in my lifetime and surely the biggest global crisis since WW2. Sorting that for a salary of £150k? No thanks.

The successful countries acted quickly and decisively. In other countries who delayed found it rapidly ran out of control.

Boris open to let it run and then squash it down so that the optimum number of people were accessing the NHS. Turns out this will cost half a million lives and believing you can control it like a tap is cloud cuckoo land. But how could he possibly have known that?

People don’t fight all their lives to become PM for the £150k and if they don’t like tough decisions they should have found another ambition in life.

He is such an irresponsible cvnt playing his games with other peoples lives that he deserves to be one of the victims.

awavey

Pross said:

TheBigBean said:

kingstongraham said:

TheBigBean said:

Former nursery has business interruption insurance which includes pandemics, but the insurer is claiming that because corona is a new disease it is not included within the policy. Boo to the insurer.

wut?

Pandemic included a specified list of possible diseases apparently. As corona wasn't around, it wasn't included.

I heard the same from a pub owner on the radio at lunchtime. Said all the discussion about whether the Government forced them to close or advised them to was irrelevant from an insurance point of view as the insurer wasn't going to cover the outbreak. That said, Coronavirus isn't new just the Covid-19 strain.

indeed,it was actually in pub industry news yesterday morning, and I think was mentioned as a likely impact when it started getting abit more serious in January.

but it gave lots of people on social media something to complain about so it kept them occupied for a while

kingstonian

Wow, you really do hate Boris don’t you. I don’t like him, but come on......

I would have thought even his haters would begrudgingly recognise that it has been a science-led response to this crisis, which has evolved over time, rather than Boris just coming up with a plan by himself. And seeing as the Scottish approach is pretty much mirroring the approach in England, I guess you view Sturgeon as an irresponsible cvnt playing her games too? She’s also been in the COBRA meetings, has heard all the data and modelling, and agreed with the approach, and I can’t see her ever wanting to agree with a Tory if she can help it.

As for the half a million number, my understanding is that is the very upper levels of a range. Is the full range something like 5000 to 500,000 which is a ridiculously large range to be considering.

rick_chasey

Somewhere there has been a f@ck up in the UK policy. An assumption for too long they the proportion of people requiring critical care was 1/8th of what it is.

tailwindhome

rick_chasey said:

Somewhere there has been a f@ck up in the UK policy. An assumption for too long they the proportion of people requiring critical care was 1/8th of what it is.

The data they updated was what people were observing in Italian and saying 'FFS look what's happening in Italy'

rick_chasey

Another example of a f@ck up, this time the “not compulsory shut down of pubs, cafés” etc

https://twitter.com/bickerrecord/status/1239982599688335360?s=21

rick_chasey

rick_chasey said:

Somewhere there has been a f@ck up in the UK policy. An assumption for too long they the proportion of people requiring critical care was 1/8th of what it is.

7 weeks too long apparently.

awavey

surrey_commuter said:

Well the initial strategy was do nothing, from memory contain lasted about 4 days. So a day into delay, how long do you think it will last.

Do you think he abandoned Delay because he realised he is an idiot or because the electorate found out he was prepared to sacrifice half a million of them

If I knew how long it would last, I probably wouldnt be sitting here chatting about it

the strategy wasnt do nothing, whether governments preparing for possible pandemics need to explain and detail everything theyve been upto the past 4 months up front so we as the mob can debate it for them and scare ourselves witless about it is itself debateable, Im sure in years to come books will be written explaining whats been going on, what worked what didnt, what was missed.

they progressed to the next stage of the plan, because the evidence they were getting and the modelling told them it was necessary to do so, just as the next stage of restrictions will come in on the same basis.

Pross

rick_chasey said:

Somewhere there has been a f@ck up in the UK policy. An assumption for too long they the proportion of people requiring critical care was 1/8th of what it is.

But can any country realistically provide the level of critical care we now require as a matter of course in case there's a major global pandemic?

mrb123

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/osborne-road-bars-rammed-24-17939778

Meanwhile in Newcastle...