The big Coronavirus thread

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  • First.Aspect
    First.Aspect Posts: 17,167
    briantrumpet said:

    Why are plastic screens still seen as at all helpful in controlling spread?

    After nearly two years out of school, some children in Manila, the capital of the Philippines, began returning to classrooms on Monday, amid extensive infection control measures.

    The children, part of a trial at 28 schools in the capital region, were sat down at desks fitted with plastic screens, wearing face masks, Reuters reported.

    The government aims to reopen all schools in January, as it tries to return the country to normal after imposing some of the world’s toughest pandemic restrictions.


    On a heartening note, at yesterday's concert at Dartington Hall, I opened some windows during the rehearsal, with a strong enough breeze that you could feel the constant airflow, and it got quite cool/cold. But no-one asked if they could close all the windows, and people just went and got extra layers of clothes. The audience sat there in their winter wear, and didn't complain.

    Maybe the ventilation thing is getting through at last.
    That's why the average age there is still above 80. With age comes wisdom.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,329
    briantrumpet said:

    Why are plastic screens still seen as at all helpful in controlling spread?

    I'd have thought the plastic screens were more efficient than mask for direct airborne transmission. Different once you consider the room as a whole.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    pblakeney said:

    briantrumpet said:

    Why are plastic screens still seen as at all helpful in controlling spread?

    I'd have thought the plastic screens were more efficient than mask for direct airborne transmission. Different once you consider the room as a whole.
    Useful for droplets, but not so much for aerosol transmission. I assume not spitting directly on each other does something to reduce transmission, but if you are in the same room for hours, it's probably of limited benefit.
  • john80
    john80 Posts: 2,965
    pangolin said:

    john80 said:

    So we are 18 months on and we still can't stop a variant coming into the country or stop it when it is in the country. Who really believes the UK could ever have run a new Zealand policy effectively.

    How is us not closing our borders and letting the virus in again proof that the virus would get in if we did close our borders?

    We would need a bit of a seismic shift in the haulage sector to meaningfully close the borders would we not. It seems to me that if every traveller had to stay in a quarantine hotel we might not even be able to keep it in the hotel based out last 18 month performance. Is anyone who was in awe of Arden think that maybe we could never have achieved. My point is more about people overlooking geography.

  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,329
    john80 said:

    pangolin said:

    john80 said:

    So we are 18 months on and we still can't stop a variant coming into the country or stop it when it is in the country. Who really believes the UK could ever have run a new Zealand policy effectively.

    How is us not closing our borders and letting the virus in again proof that the virus would get in if we did close our borders?

    We would need a bit of a seismic shift in the haulage sector to meaningfully close the borders would we not. It seems to me that if every traveller had to stay in a quarantine hotel we might not even be able to keep it in the hotel based out last 18 month performance. Is anyone who was in awe of Arden think that maybe we could never have achieved. My point is more about people overlooking geography.

    This has already been covered in depth 1-1/2 years ago.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • john80
    john80 Posts: 2,965
    pblakeney said:

    john80 said:

    pangolin said:

    john80 said:

    So we are 18 months on and we still can't stop a variant coming into the country or stop it when it is in the country. Who really believes the UK could ever have run a new Zealand policy effectively.

    How is us not closing our borders and letting the virus in again proof that the virus would get in if we did close our borders?

    We would need a bit of a seismic shift in the haulage sector to meaningfully close the borders would we not. It seems to me that if every traveller had to stay in a quarantine hotel we might not even be able to keep it in the hotel based out last 18 month performance. Is anyone who was in awe of Arden think that maybe we could never have achieved. My point is more about people overlooking geography.

    This has already been covered in depth 1-1/2 years ago.
    Yes and the majority concluded it was achievable and the reason it was not is because of government incompetence. This majority can't even look back and see that what they wanted was essentially impossible to achieve even with the testing tools we have now.
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,365
    kingstongraham said:

    pblakeney said:

    briantrumpet said:

    Why are plastic screens still seen as at all helpful in controlling spread?

    I'd have thought the plastic screens were more efficient than mask for direct airborne transmission. Different once you consider the room as a whole.
    Useful for droplets, but not so much for aerosol transmission. I assume not spitting directly on each other does something to reduce transmission, but if you are in the same room for hours, it's probably of limited benefit.

    I'm not even sure if droplet transmission is a thing with covid. My reading of it is that it is vanishingly rare, and nearly always transmitted by being breathed into the lungs, rather than any sort of ingestion (hence the surface transmission route also being a red herring).

    I think we get back to the theatre of 'being seen to be doing something' aspect seen with sanitisation: screens fall into the same category, along with the visors that people seemed to think would magically stop a virus.

    There is also the consideration that they are actually worse than useless, as they disrupt airflow and create vortexes, so what viruses are in the air can get concentrated into particular currents, rather than being dispersed and expelled.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    john80 said:

    pblakeney said:

    john80 said:

    pangolin said:

    john80 said:

    So we are 18 months on and we still can't stop a variant coming into the country or stop it when it is in the country. Who really believes the UK could ever have run a new Zealand policy effectively.

    How is us not closing our borders and letting the virus in again proof that the virus would get in if we did close our borders?

    We would need a bit of a seismic shift in the haulage sector to meaningfully close the borders would we not. It seems to me that if every traveller had to stay in a quarantine hotel we might not even be able to keep it in the hotel based out last 18 month performance. Is anyone who was in awe of Arden think that maybe we could never have achieved. My point is more about people overlooking geography.

    This has already been covered in depth 1-1/2 years ago.
    Yes and the majority concluded it was achievable and the reason it was not is because of government incompetence. This majority can't even look back and see that what they wanted was essentially impossible to achieve even with the testing tools we have now.
    Your memory is different to mine. I don't think anyone concluded anything.

    However, I still don't see how you can extrapolate from what has just happened where we didn't try to close the borders to say that it would have had no effect if we had tried to restrict travel more in the early stages of 2020.

    We have always been too far away from having that as any sort of ambition to say whether it was possible or not.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,104
    I find it sad that those young kids have missed 18 months of physically going into school and are now expected to be taught like that wearing masks, divided by perspex with no contact. With each other. This is basically not to protect them but to protect others.

    I just hope they are allowed to mix and play with each other outdoors.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    As New Zealand was mentioned - I think it's not too early to say they've done well.





  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,648
    DeVlaeminck said:

    I find it sad that those young kids have missed 18 months of physically going into school and are now expected to be taught like that wearing masks, divided by perspex with no contact. With each other. This is basically not to protect them but to protect others.

    I just hope they are allowed to mix and play with each other outdoors.

    This is the case with most covid precautions... A point many still fail to grasp.
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 27,329
    edited December 2021
    john80 said:

    pblakeney said:

    john80 said:

    pangolin said:

    john80 said:

    So we are 18 months on and we still can't stop a variant coming into the country or stop it when it is in the country. Who really believes the UK could ever have run a new Zealand policy effectively.

    How is us not closing our borders and letting the virus in again proof that the virus would get in if we did close our borders?

    We would need a bit of a seismic shift in the haulage sector to meaningfully close the borders would we not. It seems to me that if every traveller had to stay in a quarantine hotel we might not even be able to keep it in the hotel based out last 18 month performance. Is anyone who was in awe of Arden think that maybe we could never have achieved. My point is more about people overlooking geography.

    This has already been covered in depth 1-1/2 years ago.
    Yes and the majority concluded it was achievable and the reason it was not is because of government incompetence. This majority can't even look back and see that what they wanted was essentially impossible to achieve even with the testing tools we have now.
    No. The majority did not. Some (myself included) thought it was the best solution to a pandemic given that we are an island. Others thought we are too linked to make it possible. Most wondered about the practicalities.
    The only general consensus was that it was too late given the numbers in this country.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,104
    pangolin said:

    DeVlaeminck said:

    I find it sad that those young kids have missed 18 months of physically going into school and are now expected to be taught like that wearing masks, divided by perspex with no contact. With each other. This is basically not to protect them but to protect others.

    I just hope they are allowed to mix and play with each other outdoors.

    This is the case with most covid precautions... A point many still fail to grasp.
    Yes but it's a bit different for young kids who rarely get very ill with Covid - they don't directly get the reciprocal benefits of others taking precautions.

    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • drhaggis
    drhaggis Posts: 1,150
    kingstongraham said:

    drhaggis said:

    kingstongraham said:

    drhaggis said:

    Am flying abroad next weekend to see family over Xmas. I'm out for a couple of weeks, and I totally see having to pony up for a quarantine hotel.

    If they'll let you into the country you're going to.
    Are the quarantine hotels set up for anything other than southern african countries? I'll be in Spain, which has never been on the red list.

    Two PCR's, I can do. Paying through your nose to stay in a cuasi-prison, it's a tough call. Flying back early would be bad personally, but managed quarantine is just nuts. What's worse is that I've done self-isolation twice before, to the letter of the law, and it's the morons not doing it that ruin necessary travel for the rest of us.
    You should be alright coming back in a few weeks, we'll be all Omicron by then.

    I meant about Spain putting restrictions on people flying in, but that also seems unlikely.
    Ah, OK, I see! I understood it the other way around

    Spain's rules are currently confirmed until Sunday, 23:59, so I should be good. They changed rules for Britons last week... now banning non-vaccinated people. Ironicallly enough, Spain's not asking for any negative test, which is something that I don't understand, even if it saves me £40-80.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,463
    kingstongraham said:

    As New Zealand was mentioned - I think it's not too early to say they've done well.





    Two waves in early 2020 and another two waves in late 2021 by the looks of it if you really really zoom in, same as us :wink:
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,416
    edited December 2021
    Pross said:

    kingstongraham said:

    As New Zealand was mentioned - I think it's not too early to say they've done well.





    Two waves in early 2020 and another two waves in late 2021 by the looks of it if you really really zoom in, same as us :wink:
    This sums up the NZ situation quite well.

    https://www.facebook.com/matthew.tukaki/videos/jacinda-arden-on-spitting-image/366984127679897/
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Facebook links?!
    _
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    Spitting Image??? That used to be relevant when I was a kid.
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,365
    kingstongraham said:

    Spitting Image??? That used to be relevant when I was a kid.


    I'm not even sure what that is supposed to say about Arden... the only punch it seems to land is to suggest she's a machete-weilding maniac, and I seem to have missed that in the news...
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,416
    rick_chasey said:

    Facebook links?!

    Would you like a different link to the same thing?
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,416
    briantrumpet said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Spitting Image??? That used to be relevant when I was a kid.


    I'm not even sure what that is supposed to say about Arden... the only punch it seems to land is to suggest she's a machete-weilding maniac, and I seem to have missed that in the news...
    Humour not your thing then Brian? Maybe farming floats your boat instead? :)
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,416
    kingstongraham said:

    Spitting Image??? That used to be relevant when I was a kid.

    It's a recent one KG. Doesn't tickle your funny bone then ?
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,365
    Stevo_666 said:

    briantrumpet said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Spitting Image??? That used to be relevant when I was a kid.


    I'm not even sure what that is supposed to say about Arden... the only punch it seems to land is to suggest she's a machete-weilding maniac, and I seem to have missed that in the news...
    Humour not your thing then Brian? Maybe farming floats your boat instead? :)

    You forgot to mention ketchup.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Spitting Image??? That used to be relevant when I was a kid.

    It's a recent one KG. Doesn't tickle your funny bone then ?
    I didn't bother, I've seen enough of the recent clips to know they just are consistently desperately weak.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    Actually now I look, that was from last year, so was one of the ones that helped form my opinion.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,416
    kingstongraham said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Spitting Image??? That used to be relevant when I was a kid.

    It's a recent one KG. Doesn't tickle your funny bone then ?
    I didn't bother, I've seen enough of the recent clips to know they just are consistently desperately weak.
    I didn't really expect any other reaction in here. Cake Stop: "The place for more serious off-topic questions, light-hearted banter and friendly chat". Good for one out three at least...
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    It seems quite pro Ardern though.
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,416
    briantrumpet said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    briantrumpet said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Spitting Image??? That used to be relevant when I was a kid.


    I'm not even sure what that is supposed to say about Arden... the only punch it seems to land is to suggest she's a machete-weilding maniac, and I seem to have missed that in the news...
    Humour not your thing then Brian? Maybe farming floats your boat instead? :)

    You forgot to mention ketchup.
    Funny thing is, it was originally posted on here by twh a while back and he didn't get the same reaction at all. Interesting test, now get back under your bridge ;)
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    Stevo_666 said:

    briantrumpet said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    briantrumpet said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Spitting Image??? That used to be relevant when I was a kid.


    I'm not even sure what that is supposed to say about Arden... the only punch it seems to land is to suggest she's a machete-weilding maniac, and I seem to have missed that in the news...
    Humour not your thing then Brian? Maybe farming floats your boat instead? :)

    You forgot to mention ketchup.
    Funny thing is, it was originally posted on here by twh a while back and he didn't get the same reaction at all. Interesting test, now get back under your bridge ;)
    Maybe that was back when people were giving spitting image a try in case it was good.

    Like I say, I watched it and its not great.

    Message is that Ardern banned assault weapons, brought in a living wage and kept covid out. Fair comment I guess.
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 20,365
    Stevo_666 said:

    briantrumpet said:

    Stevo_666 said:

    briantrumpet said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Spitting Image??? That used to be relevant when I was a kid.


    I'm not even sure what that is supposed to say about Arden... the only punch it seems to land is to suggest she's a machete-weilding maniac, and I seem to have missed that in the news...
    Humour not your thing then Brian? Maybe farming floats your boat instead? :)

    You forgot to mention ketchup.
    Funny thing is, it was originally posted on here by twh a while back and he didn't get the same reaction at all. Interesting test, now get back under your bridge ;)

    Did TWH get funny about others not finding it funny?

    I like a good savage satirical romp, but that's not one.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois

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