The big Coronavirus thread

Jezyboy

john80 said:

Ncovidius said:

rick_chasey said:

https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1467158668391161863?s=21

So if this happens more it’ll be lockdown again.

It’s already too late. The 23rd of December lockdown is being pushed by the medics. It’s not looking good.

I would be pretty annoyed if Xmas is cancelled for a second time when we are all capable of managing our own risk. Is the Venn diagram two overlapping circles of people who don't like their families over those who want a lockdown.

We could have had a couple of hospitals built for all the antivaxers to attend with covid by now. Sure the care might have been rubbish but who cares.

I'd be weary about listening to certain posters.

pangolin

john80 said:

Ncovidius said:

rick_chasey said:

https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1467158668391161863?s=21

So if this happens more it’ll be lockdown again.

It’s already too late. The 23rd of December lockdown is being pushed by the medics. It’s not looking good.

I would be pretty annoyed if Xmas is cancelled for a second time when we are all capable of managing our own risk. Is the Venn diagram two overlapping circles of people who don't like their families over those who want a lockdown.

We could have had a couple of hospitals built for all the antivaxers to attend with covid by now. Sure the care might have been rubbish but who cares.

If I can't see a Dr because they're clogged up with morons who don't want to get vaccinated how do I manage my own risk? Try hard not to get anything that benefits from early diagnosis for a couple more years?

briantrumpet

focuszing723 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Paq17X6ucQ
Sounding positive.

I'm sure I wasn't the only one suggesting that a few days ago (though obviously with only tea leaves to go on, rather than any expertise).

I wonder how they'll 'let it rip', if this does turn out to be true. (Mind you, Devon's doing pretty well at the task, without any prompting, at the mo.)

kingstonian

briantrumpet said:

focuszing723 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Paq17X6ucQ
Sounding positive.

I'm sure I wasn't the only one suggesting that a few days ago (though obviously with only tea leaves to go on, rather than any expertise).

I wonder how they'll 'let it rip', if this does turn out to be true. (Mind you, Devon's doing pretty well at the task, without any prompting, at the mo.)

If it is indeed less severe, it will be interesting to see if countries wind back the extra measures put in place in the past few days.

imposter2.0

briantrumpet said:

focuszing723 said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Paq17X6ucQ
Sounding positive.

I'm sure I wasn't the only one suggesting that a few days ago (though obviously with only tea leaves to go on, rather than any expertise).

I wonder how they'll 'let it rip', if this does turn out to be true. (Mind you, Devon's doing pretty well at the task, without any prompting, at the mo.)

The worst thing about that is that spaffer will claim he was right all along...

drhaggis

kingstongraham said:

drhaggis said:

Am flying abroad next weekend to see family over Xmas. I'm out for a couple of weeks, and I totally see having to pony up for a quarantine hotel.

If they'll let you into the country you're going to.

Are the quarantine hotels set up for anything other than southern african countries? I'll be in Spain, which has never been on the red list.

Two PCR's, I can do. Paying through your nose to stay in a cuasi-prison, it's a tough call. Flying back early would be bad personally, but managed quarantine is just nuts. What's worse is that I've done self-isolation twice before, to the letter of the law, and it's the morons not doing it that ruin necessary travel for the rest of us.

john80

pangolin said:

john80 said:

Ncovidius said:

rick_chasey said:

https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1467158668391161863?s=21

So if this happens more it’ll be lockdown again.

It’s already too late. The 23rd of December lockdown is being pushed by the medics. It’s not looking good.

I would be pretty annoyed if Xmas is cancelled for a second time when we are all capable of managing our own risk. Is the Venn diagram two overlapping circles of people who don't like their families over those who want a lockdown.

We could have had a couple of hospitals built for all the antivaxers to attend with covid by now. Sure the care might have been rubbish but who cares.

If I can't see a Dr because they're clogged up with morons who don't want to get vaccinated how do I manage my own risk? Try hard not to get anything that benefits from early diagnosis for a couple more years?

Given if you have covid you are not supposed to go to a GP it is not covid patients clogging up surgeries. So round my way appointments are as available as before. Once you get your referral to then you up will be seen. If the argument is that it is not quick enough then it is more likely to be a NHS capacity rather than covid delay. This is a separate issue probably related to too many old people who want to keep all their assets and get a diminishing tax base to fund it.😀

rjsterry

I'm enjoying Andrew Neil disappointing all his fanbois on Twitter by vigorously arguing for vaccine passports.

kingstongraham

drhaggis said:

kingstongraham said:

drhaggis said:

Am flying abroad next weekend to see family over Xmas. I'm out for a couple of weeks, and I totally see having to pony up for a quarantine hotel.

If they'll let you into the country you're going to.

Are the quarantine hotels set up for anything other than southern african countries? I'll be in Spain, which has never been on the red list.

Two PCR's, I can do. Paying through your nose to stay in a cuasi-prison, it's a tough call. Flying back early would be bad personally, but managed quarantine is just nuts. What's worse is that I've done self-isolation twice before, to the letter of the law, and it's the morons not doing it that ruin necessary travel for the rest of us.

You should be alright coming back in a few weeks, we'll be all Omicron by then.

I meant about Spain putting restrictions on people flying in, but that also seems unlikely.

TheBigBean

Omicron could be the beginning of the end of the pandemic. It sounds like it is sufficiently contagious that no amount of lockdowns will stop it, so we will all shortly be exposed to it.

briantrumpet

kingstongraham said:

drhaggis said:

kingstongraham said:

drhaggis said:

Am flying abroad next weekend to see family over Xmas. I'm out for a couple of weeks, and I totally see having to pony up for a quarantine hotel.

If they'll let you into the country you're going to.

Are the quarantine hotels set up for anything other than southern african countries? I'll be in Spain, which has never been on the red list.

Two PCR's, I can do. Paying through your nose to stay in a cuasi-prison, it's a tough call. Flying back early would be bad personally, but managed quarantine is just nuts. What's worse is that I've done self-isolation twice before, to the letter of the law, and it's the morons not doing it that ruin necessary travel for the rest of us.

You should be alright coming back in a few weeks, we'll be all Omicron by then.

I meant about Spain putting restrictions on people flying in, but that also seems unlikely.

I think it's very unlikely that Spain or France (for example) would require hotel quarantine on return (I suspect it would be impossible to rig up enough hotels at short notice, even with Spaffer's mates' rates being offered), but given the unpredictability of such an incompetent government, and the speed at which things change, I'm not going to take the risk.

It's annoying, as I think omicron's well and truly out of the bag and will be unstoppable, so the current panic is well after the horse has bolted, so it'll all be pretty much in vain. In that regard, Spaffer's putting all his eggs in the vaccine basket might well have been the right call.

briantrumpet

Still don't know what's going on with the US figures, but the Europe ones are still encouraging. given the rapid rise in infections in mainland Europe.

My prediction is that these case fatality rates will drop even further (and possibly sharply) as omicron spreads... that's all assuming the infections are actually picked up, given that 70% of the cases detected in the South Africa report above were only detected in people going into hospital for other reasons.

john80

So we are 18 months on and we still can't stop a variant coming into the country or stop it when it is in the country. Who really believes the UK could ever have run a new Zealand policy effectively.

kingstongraham

john80 said:

So we are 18 months on and we still can't stop a variant coming into the country or stop it when it is in the country. Who really believes the UK could ever have run a new Zealand policy effectively.

In this case, we haven't closed the borders when the variant was already in the country. I don't think you can extrapolate too far from that regarding any attempt to delay it in the first instance.

First.Aspect

TheBigBean said:

Omicron could be the beginning of the end of the pandemic. It sounds like it is sufficiently contagious that no amount of lockdowns will stop it, so we will all shortly be exposed to it.

S. Africa is in its fourth such wave.

The only way you would be close to correct is if the variant has less severe outcomes. Still too early to tell.

TheBigBean

First.Aspect said:

TheBigBean said:

Omicron could be the beginning of the end of the pandemic. It sounds like it is sufficiently contagious that no amount of lockdowns will stop it, so we will all shortly be exposed to it.

S. Africa is in its fourth such wave.

The only way you would be close to correct is if the variant has less severe outcomes. Still too early to tell.

Why does the outcome matter?

DeVlaeminck

TheBigBean said:

First.Aspect said:

TheBigBean said:

Omicron could be the beginning of the end of the pandemic. It sounds like it is sufficiently contagious that no amount of lockdowns will stop it, so we will all shortly be exposed to it.

S. Africa is in its fourth such wave.

The only way you would be close to correct is if the variant has less severe outcomes. Still too early to tell.

Why does the outcome matter?

Presumably because we wouldn't lock down if the virus became much less harmful. The idea that the only way out is for the virus to mutate into something on a par with a cold or mild flu.

kingstongraham

DeVlaeminck said:

TheBigBean said:

First.Aspect said:

TheBigBean said:

Omicron could be the beginning of the end of the pandemic. It sounds like it is sufficiently contagious that no amount of lockdowns will stop it, so we will all shortly be exposed to it.

S. Africa is in its fourth such wave.

The only way you would be close to correct is if the variant has less severe outcomes. Still too early to tell.

Why does the outcome matter?

Presumably because we wouldn't lock down if the virus became much less harmful. The idea that the only way out is for the virus to mutate into something on a par with a cold or mild flu.

It also matters the degree to which it affects the vaccinated/previously infected.

If it's only unvaccinated who are taking up the ICU beds, there's much more justification for treating those who are unvaccinated over a certain age as a vulnerable population who must shelter.

Still early days.

First.Aspect

TheBigBean said:

First.Aspect said:

TheBigBean said:

Omicron could be the beginning of the end of the pandemic. It sounds like it is sufficiently contagious that no amount of lockdowns will stop it, so we will all shortly be exposed to it.

S. Africa is in its fourth such wave.

The only way you would be close to correct is if the variant has less severe outcomes. Still too early to tell.

Why does the outcome matter?

Are you being deliberately obtuse? Sorry, I mean, you are being deliberately obtuse.

kingstongraham

First.Aspect said:

TheBigBean said:

First.Aspect said:

TheBigBean said:

Omicron could be the beginning of the end of the pandemic. It sounds like it is sufficiently contagious that no amount of lockdowns will stop it, so we will all shortly be exposed to it.

S. Africa is in its fourth such wave.

The only way you would be close to correct is if the variant has less severe outcomes. Still too early to tell.

Why does the outcome matter?

Are you being deliberately obtuse? Sorry, I mean, you are being deliberately obtuse.

If we're all going to catch it anyway eventually, we'd be back to squashing the sombrero. Which might still mean lockdowns if it goes badly.

Fingers are crossed and booster jab booked (and fingers crossed the booster jab does its job).

First.Aspect

kingstongraham said:

First.Aspect said:

TheBigBean said:

First.Aspect said:

TheBigBean said:

Omicron could be the beginning of the end of the pandemic. It sounds like it is sufficiently contagious that no amount of lockdowns will stop it, so we will all shortly be exposed to it.

S. Africa is in its fourth such wave.

The only way you would be close to correct is if the variant has less severe outcomes. Still too early to tell.

Why does the outcome matter?

Are you being deliberately obtuse? Sorry, I mean, you are being deliberately obtuse.

If we're all going to catch it anyway eventually, we'd be back to squashing the sombrero. Which might still mean lockdowns if it goes badly.

Fingers are crossed and booster jab booked (and fingers crossed the booster jab does its job).

Agree. Sounds not like the end of the pandemic to me. Unless Omicron is a great deal milder. Let's hope.

TheBigBean

First.Aspect said:

TheBigBean said:

First.Aspect said:

TheBigBean said:

Omicron could be the beginning of the end of the pandemic. It sounds like it is sufficiently contagious that no amount of lockdowns will stop it, so we will all shortly be exposed to it.

S. Africa is in its fourth such wave.

The only way you would be close to correct is if the variant has less severe outcomes. Still too early to tell.

Why does the outcome matter?

Are you being deliberately obtuse? Sorry, I mean, you are being deliberately obtuse.

Not all. My point was that it seems sufficiently contagious to infect everyone irrespective of social distancing measures. Whether it kills everyone or gives them all sniffle doesn't impact whether it infects everyone.

First.Aspect

TheBigBean said:

First.Aspect said:

TheBigBean said:

First.Aspect said:

TheBigBean said:

Omicron could be the beginning of the end of the pandemic. It sounds like it is sufficiently contagious that no amount of lockdowns will stop it, so we will all shortly be exposed to it.

S. Africa is in its fourth such wave.

The only way you would be close to correct is if the variant has less severe outcomes. Still too early to tell.

Why does the outcome matter?

Are you being deliberately obtuse? Sorry, I mean, you are being deliberately obtuse.

Not all. My point was that it seems sufficiently contagious to infect everyone irrespective of social distancing measures. Whether it kills everyone or gives them all sniffle doesn't impact whether it infects everyone.

Would mass infection mean the end of the pandemic though? There's nothing so far from SA to suggest that is there.

TheBigBean

First.Aspect said:

TheBigBean said:

First.Aspect said:

TheBigBean said:

First.Aspect said:

TheBigBean said:

Omicron could be the beginning of the end of the pandemic. It sounds like it is sufficiently contagious that no amount of lockdowns will stop it, so we will all shortly be exposed to it.

S. Africa is in its fourth such wave.

The only way you would be close to correct is if the variant has less severe outcomes. Still too early to tell.

Why does the outcome matter?

Are you being deliberately obtuse? Sorry, I mean, you are being deliberately obtuse.

Not all. My point was that it seems sufficiently contagious to infect everyone irrespective of social distancing measures. Whether it kills everyone or gives them all sniffle doesn't impact whether it infects everyone.

Would mass infection mean the end of the pandemic though? There's nothing so far from SA to suggest that is there.

I would have thought so.

First.Aspect

TheBigBean said:

First.Aspect said:

TheBigBean said:

First.Aspect said:

TheBigBean said:

First.Aspect said:

TheBigBean said:

Omicron could be the beginning of the end of the pandemic. It sounds like it is sufficiently contagious that no amount of lockdowns will stop it, so we will all shortly be exposed to it.

S. Africa is in its fourth such wave.

The only way you would be close to correct is if the variant has less severe outcomes. Still too early to tell.

Why does the outcome matter?

Are you being deliberately obtuse? Sorry, I mean, you are being deliberately obtuse.

Not all. My point was that it seems sufficiently contagious to infect everyone irrespective of social distancing measures. Whether it kills everyone or gives them all sniffle doesn't impact whether it infects everyone.

Would mass infection mean the end of the pandemic though? There's nothing so far from SA to suggest that is there.

I would have thought so.

Depends. Will it stop mutating? If not, SA's experience suggests immunity wanes and leaves the population exposed to repeated waves of infection. These are occurring so closely after one another that even countries hoarding vaccines can keep up.

How are you reasoning it would be over?

TheBigBean

First.Aspect said:

TheBigBean said:

First.Aspect said:

TheBigBean said:

First.Aspect said:

TheBigBean said:

First.Aspect said:

TheBigBean said:

Omicron could be the beginning of the end of the pandemic. It sounds like it is sufficiently contagious that no amount of lockdowns will stop it, so we will all shortly be exposed to it.

S. Africa is in its fourth such wave.

The only way you would be close to correct is if the variant has less severe outcomes. Still too early to tell.

Why does the outcome matter?

Are you being deliberately obtuse? Sorry, I mean, you are being deliberately obtuse.

Not all. My point was that it seems sufficiently contagious to infect everyone irrespective of social distancing measures. Whether it kills everyone or gives them all sniffle doesn't impact whether it infects everyone.

Would mass infection mean the end of the pandemic though? There's nothing so far from SA to suggest that is there.

I would have thought so.

Depends. Will it stop mutating? If not, SA's experience suggests immunity wanes and leaves the population exposed to repeated waves of infection. These are occurring so closely after one another that even countries hoarding vaccines can keep up.

How are you reasoning it would be over?

I'm assuming that reinfection results in a less severe infection, so it becomes like other coronaviruses.

First.Aspect

TheBigBean said:

First.Aspect said:

TheBigBean said:

First.Aspect said:

TheBigBean said:

First.Aspect said:

TheBigBean said:

First.Aspect said:

TheBigBean said:

Omicron could be the beginning of the end of the pandemic. It sounds like it is sufficiently contagious that no amount of lockdowns will stop it, so we will all shortly be exposed to it.

S. Africa is in its fourth such wave.

The only way you would be close to correct is if the variant has less severe outcomes. Still too early to tell.

Why does the outcome matter?

Are you being deliberately obtuse? Sorry, I mean, you are being deliberately obtuse.

Not all. My point was that it seems sufficiently contagious to infect everyone irrespective of social distancing measures. Whether it kills everyone or gives them all sniffle doesn't impact whether it infects everyone.

Would mass infection mean the end of the pandemic though? There's nothing so far from SA to suggest that is there.

I would have thought so.

Depends. Will it stop mutating? If not, SA's experience suggests immunity wanes and leaves the population exposed to repeated waves of infection. These are occurring so closely after one another that even countries hoarding vaccines can keep up.

How are you reasoning it would be over?

I'm assuming that reinfection results in a less severe infection, so it becomes like other coronaviruses.

Let's hope. But it is still an assumption. Might not happen though.

pangolin

john80 said:

So we are 18 months on and we still can't stop a variant coming into the country or stop it when it is in the country. Who really believes the UK could ever have run a new Zealand policy effectively.

How is us not closing our borders and letting the virus in again proof that the virus would get in if we did close our borders?

DeVlaeminck

I didn't realise until just now that if your PCR shows you have Omicron then close contacts - even vaccinated ones - have to isolate.

briantrumpet

Why are plastic screens still seen as at all helpful in controlling spread?

After nearly two years out of school, some children in Manila, the capital of the Philippines, began returning to classrooms on Monday, amid extensive infection control measures.

The children, part of a trial at 28 schools in the capital region, were sat down at desks fitted with plastic screens, wearing face masks, Reuters reported.

The government aims to reopen all schools in January, as it tries to return the country to normal after imposing some of the world’s toughest pandemic restrictions.

On a heartening note, at yesterday's concert at Dartington Hall, I opened some windows during the rehearsal, with a strong enough breeze that you could feel the constant airflow, and it got quite cool/cold. But no-one asked if they could close all the windows, and people just went and got extra layers of clothes. The audience sat there in their winter wear, and didn't complain.

Maybe the ventilation thing is getting through at last.