Join the Labour Party and save your country!

rjsterry

Would that they actually were an opposition; there's an open goal and they are bragging their vote share at the last election.

rick_chasey

Free marketer ought to be pro competiton but like most on the right actually favours a self serving monopoly.

coopster_the_1st

rjsterry wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

Well done Stevo. Your plan has worked. It was close to failing due to the incompetence of TM. Hopefully the Tories replace her with someone competent to comfortably win the next GE otherwise all this will be for nothing.

The Tories don't have my vote yet though!

It's good to know that my £3 subscription wasn't wasted

This will just entrench views on either side. Both lots of hardliners love to nurse a grievance. Result: more ineffectual government in hock to whichever special interest group wants to cause trouble and more and more of the population feeling disenfranchised.

This is likely to split the current Labour and Lib Dem vote depending on how many candidates this new party puts up.

It is now in direct competition to the LD's so you would expect them to challenge for those seats, unless some deal is done.

Then, I'm sure they'll target certain Labour seats that they think they have the best chance in but the likes of Corbyn, McDonnell & Abbott are safe as they are strong far left seats but others will not be.

They may target a few Conservative seats but I'm not sure there are many Pro-EU Conservative seats that would vote for a faux Labour MP. I would expect them to challenge in Hastings as an example but they will split the Labour vote thus letting Rudd get back in, something that was never going to happen before this split.

Stevo_666

Rick Chasey wrote:

Free marketer ought to be pro competiton but like most on the right actually favours a self serving monopoly.

I'm all for competition, this is just a case of getting a competitive advantage.

Anyway, I think you have to admit that my plan is working quite nicely

Stevo_666

Coopster the 1st wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

Well done Stevo. Your plan has worked. It was close to failing due to the incompetence of TM. Hopefully the Tories replace her with someone competent to comfortably win the next GE otherwise all this will be for nothing.

The Tories don't have my vote yet though!

It's good to know that my £3 subscription wasn't wasted

This will just entrench views on either side. Both lots of hardliners love to nurse a grievance. Result: more ineffectual government in hock to whichever special interest group wants to cause trouble and more and more of the population feeling disenfranchised.

This is likely to split the current Labour and Lib Dem vote depending on how many candidates this new party puts up.

It is now in direct competition to the LD's so you would expect them to challenge for those seats, unless some deal is done.

Then, I'm sure they'll target certain Labour seats that they think they have the best chance in but the likes of Corbyn, McDonnell & Abbott are safe as they are strong far left seats but others will not be.

They may target a few Conservative seats but I'm not sure there are many Pro-EU Conservative seats that would vote for a faux Labour MP. I would expect them to challenge in Hastings as an example but they will split the Labour vote thus letting Rudd get back in, something that was never going to happen before this split.

https://youtu.be/6W6y7YhHdVE

rick_chasey

Depends what working well means.

If you mean serving your own interests at the expense of overall national net gain then yes.

If labour had better leaders the Tories would not be so sh!t themselves.

ballysmate

Happy days indeed for the Libdems. Competition for their 11 seats.

morstar

It's not really a long term party though is it!?
There is a short term objective to allow a non-Brexit position to be openly communicated in the hope of generating some moderate Brexit / remain concensus.
There is a mid-term objective in removing JC from role of leader in the hope of returning to a more moderate Labour party.
Unless we get electoral reform (ridiculously unlikely but probably a better thing to have voted for than Brexit) you need to be in the big two parties if you want to be in government.

Stevo_666

Rick Chasey wrote:

Depends what working well means.

If you mean serving your own interests at the expense of overall national net gain then yes.

If labour had better leaders the Tories would not be so sh!t themselves.

Sh1t is relative as I'm sure you will be aware as the member of a fringe party.

In this case I believe my own interests and those of the nation are aligned. Would you want Corbyn in number 10? (It's OK, I already know the answer...)

rick_chasey

Ballysmate wrote:

Happy days indeed for the Libdems. Competition for their 11 seats.

Wrong seats

rick_chasey

Stevo 666 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Depends what working well means.

If you mean serving your own interests at the expense of overall national net gain then yes.

If labour had better leaders the Tories would not be so sh!t themselves.

Sh1t is relative as I'm sure you will be aware as the member of a fringe party.

In this case I believe my own interests and those of the nation are aligned. Would you want Corbyn in number 10? (It's OK, I already know the answer...)

Not a free marketer but self serving rentier. Standard.

coopster_the_1st

Not done any research into this but I would have expected bigger moves in the share prices of Utility companies following this good news. Either the markets don't think the change of a Corbyn govt to be lower or they need to see some polling numbers before reacting to this

Stevo_666

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Depends what working well means.

If you mean serving your own interests at the expense of overall national net gain then yes.

If labour had better leaders the Tories would not be so sh!t themselves.

Sh1t is relative as I'm sure you will be aware as the member of a fringe party.

In this case I believe my own interests and those of the nation are aligned. Would you want Corbyn in number 10? (It's OK, I already know the answer...)

Not a free marketer but self serving rentier. Standard.

Whatever makes you think I'm one of those?

Nice use use of fancy words btw.

rjsterry

Coopster the 1st wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

Well done Stevo. Your plan has worked. It was close to failing due to the incompetence of TM. Hopefully the Tories replace her with someone competent to comfortably win the next GE otherwise all this will be for nothing.

The Tories don't have my vote yet though!

It's good to know that my £3 subscription wasn't wasted

This will just entrench views on either side. Both lots of hardliners love to nurse a grievance. Result: more ineffectual government in hock to whichever special interest group wants to cause trouble and more and more of the population feeling disenfranchised.

This is likely to split the current Labour and Lib Dem vote depending on how many candidates this new party puts up.

It is now in direct competition to the LD's so you would expect them to challenge for those seats, unless some deal is done.

Then, I'm sure they'll target certain Labour seats that they think they have the best chance in but the likes of Corbyn, McDonnell & Abbott are safe as they are strong far left seats but others will not be.

They may target a few Conservative seats but I'm not sure there are many Pro-EU Conservative seats that would vote for a faux Labour MP. I would expect them to challenge in Hastings as an example but they will split the Labour vote thus letting Rudd get back in, something that was never going to happen before this split.

All very interesting except it isn't a party. You can't vote for 'The Independent Group': only individual independent MPs in those 7 strongly Labour-supporting constituencies. So they will only really compete against 'official' Labour candidates at whatever point there is a GE.

rick_chasey

Stevo 666 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Depends what working well means.

If you mean serving your own interests at the expense of overall national net gain then yes.

If labour had better leaders the Tories would not be so sh!t themselves.

Sh1t is relative as I'm sure you will be aware as the member of a fringe party.

In this case I believe my own interests and those of the nation are aligned. Would you want Corbyn in number 10? (It's OK, I already know the answer...)

Not a free marketer but self serving rentier. Standard.

Whatever makes you think I'm one of those?

Nice use use of fancy words btw.

It’s a real bugbear of mine. When it really matters, people on the right are often not actually pro competiton but pro whatever suits them.

The whole advantage the right has is that proper competition has a net gain for everyone.

But instead the focus got on making those at the top of organisations richer and individualised incentives for people to “make it” rather than focusing on keeping competiton as high a possible for the net good.

Protecting a firm that has a monopoly because it’s created a bunch of billionaires rather than making sure newer entrants have a fair crack if they’re good enough.

Same applies here to politics. Both labour and Tories and indeed everyone benefits when they all put their best and most able people in the most important positions. A better Labour Party makes for a better Tory Party for everyone.

Instead, having Corbyn as leader has allowed the Tories to sink into their worst and most destructive habits, safe in the knowledge the other half is unelectable.

For a business equivalent, I can continue to rip off my customers because they’re not gonna go anywhere else.

Understand the real value of your ideology for the net good, rather than your own self serving interest.

coopster_the_1st

rjsterry wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

Well done Stevo. Your plan has worked. It was close to failing due to the incompetence of TM. Hopefully the Tories replace her with someone competent to comfortably win the next GE otherwise all this will be for nothing.

The Tories don't have my vote yet though!

It's good to know that my £3 subscription wasn't wasted

This will just entrench views on either side. Both lots of hardliners love to nurse a grievance. Result: more ineffectual government in hock to whichever special interest group wants to cause trouble and more and more of the population feeling disenfranchised.

This is likely to split the current Labour and Lib Dem vote depending on how many candidates this new party puts up.

It is now in direct competition to the LD's so you would expect them to challenge for those seats, unless some deal is done.

Then, I'm sure they'll target certain Labour seats that they think they have the best chance in but the likes of Corbyn, McDonnell & Abbott are safe as they are strong far left seats but others will not be.

They may target a few Conservative seats but I'm not sure there are many Pro-EU Conservative seats that would vote for a faux Labour MP. I would expect them to challenge in Hastings as an example but they will split the Labour vote thus letting Rudd get back in, something that was never going to happen before this split.

All very interesting except it isn't a party. You can't vote for 'The Independent Group': only individual independent MPs in those 7 strongly Labour-supporting constituencies. So they will only really compete against Labour, at whatever point there is a GE.

Are you saying that they will only stand in their current 7 seats?

And not stand in other constituencies?

I expect they may gain a Conservative MP or 2 in the coming weeks but I doubt that any that do jump would retain their seat in the next GE

rjsterry

Coopster the 1st wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

Well done Stevo. Your plan has worked. It was close to failing due to the incompetence of TM. Hopefully the Tories replace her with someone competent to comfortably win the next GE otherwise all this will be for nothing.

The Tories don't have my vote yet though!

It's good to know that my £3 subscription wasn't wasted

This will just entrench views on either side. Both lots of hardliners love to nurse a grievance. Result: more ineffectual government in hock to whichever special interest group wants to cause trouble and more and more of the population feeling disenfranchised.

This is likely to split the current Labour and Lib Dem vote depending on how many candidates this new party puts up.

It is now in direct competition to the LD's so you would expect them to challenge for those seats, unless some deal is done.

Then, I'm sure they'll target certain Labour seats that they think they have the best chance in but the likes of Corbyn, McDonnell & Abbott are safe as they are strong far left seats but others will not be.

They may target a few Conservative seats but I'm not sure there are many Pro-EU Conservative seats that would vote for a faux Labour MP. I would expect them to challenge in Hastings as an example but they will split the Labour vote thus letting Rudd get back in, something that was never going to happen before this split.

All very interesting except it isn't a party. You can't vote for 'The Independent Group': only individual independent MPs in those 7 strongly Labour-supporting constituencies. So they will only really compete against Labour, at whatever point there is a GE.

Are you saying that they will only stand in their current 7 seats?

And not stand in other constituencies?

I expect they may gain a Conservative MP or 2 in the coming weeks but I doubt that any that do jump would retain their seat in the next GE

Why would they stand elsewhere? They all have strong support where they are (notwithstanding local CLP plotting). The Independent Group is just a limited company for fundraising.

coopster_the_1st

rjsterry wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

Well done Stevo. Your plan has worked. It was close to failing due to the incompetence of TM. Hopefully the Tories replace her with someone competent to comfortably win the next GE otherwise all this will be for nothing.

The Tories don't have my vote yet though!

It's good to know that my £3 subscription wasn't wasted

This will just entrench views on either side. Both lots of hardliners love to nurse a grievance. Result: more ineffectual government in hock to whichever special interest group wants to cause trouble and more and more of the population feeling disenfranchised.

This is likely to split the current Labour and Lib Dem vote depending on how many candidates this new party puts up.

It is now in direct competition to the LD's so you would expect them to challenge for those seats, unless some deal is done.

Then, I'm sure they'll target certain Labour seats that they think they have the best chance in but the likes of Corbyn, McDonnell & Abbott are safe as they are strong far left seats but others will not be.

They may target a few Conservative seats but I'm not sure there are many Pro-EU Conservative seats that would vote for a faux Labour MP. I would expect them to challenge in Hastings as an example but they will split the Labour vote thus letting Rudd get back in, something that was never going to happen before this split.

All very interesting except it isn't a party. You can't vote for 'The Independent Group': only individual independent MPs in those 7 strongly Labour-supporting constituencies. So they will only really compete against Labour, at whatever point there is a GE.

Are you saying that they will only stand in their current 7 seats?

And not stand in other constituencies?

I expect they may gain a Conservative MP or 2 in the coming weeks but I doubt that any that do jump would retain their seat in the next GE

Why would they stand elsewhere? They all have strong support where they are (notwithstanding local CLP plotting). The Independent Group is just a limited company for fundraising.

They are not going to put forward candidates in other seats?

rjsterry

Coopster the 1st wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

Well done Stevo. Your plan has worked. It was close to failing due to the incompetence of TM. Hopefully the Tories replace her with someone competent to comfortably win the next GE otherwise all this will be for nothing.

The Tories don't have my vote yet though!

It's good to know that my £3 subscription wasn't wasted

This will just entrench views on either side. Both lots of hardliners love to nurse a grievance. Result: more ineffectual government in hock to whichever special interest group wants to cause trouble and more and more of the population feeling disenfranchised.

This is likely to split the current Labour and Lib Dem vote depending on how many candidates this new party puts up.

It is now in direct competition to the LD's so you would expect them to challenge for those seats, unless some deal is done.

Then, I'm sure they'll target certain Labour seats that they think they have the best chance in but the likes of Corbyn, McDonnell & Abbott are safe as they are strong far left seats but others will not be.

They may target a few Conservative seats but I'm not sure there are many Pro-EU Conservative seats that would vote for a faux Labour MP. I would expect them to challenge in Hastings as an example but they will split the Labour vote thus letting Rudd get back in, something that was never going to happen before this split.

All very interesting except it isn't a party. You can't vote for 'The Independent Group': only individual independent MPs in those 7 strongly Labour-supporting constituencies. So they will only really compete against Labour, at whatever point there is a GE.

Are you saying that they will only stand in their current 7 seats?

And not stand in other constituencies?

I expect they may gain a Conservative MP or 2 in the coming weeks but I doubt that any that do jump would retain their seat in the next GE

Why would they stand elsewhere? They all have strong support where they are (notwithstanding local CLP plotting). The Independent Group is just a limited company for fundraising.

They are not going to put forward candidates in other seats?

They. Aren't. A. Party.

That's not what this is about. They are just 7 Labour MPs who have understandably, had enough of Corbyn.

sgt.pepper

rjsterry wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

Well done Stevo. Your plan has worked. It was close to failing due to the incompetence of TM. Hopefully the Tories replace her with someone competent to comfortably win the next GE otherwise all this will be for nothing.

The Tories don't have my vote yet though!

It's good to know that my £3 subscription wasn't wasted

This will just entrench views on either side. Both lots of hardliners love to nurse a grievance. Result: more ineffectual government in hock to whichever special interest group wants to cause trouble and more and more of the population feeling disenfranchised.

This is likely to split the current Labour and Lib Dem vote depending on how many candidates this new party puts up.

It is now in direct competition to the LD's so you would expect them to challenge for those seats, unless some deal is done.

Then, I'm sure they'll target certain Labour seats that they think they have the best chance in but the likes of Corbyn, McDonnell & Abbott are safe as they are strong far left seats but others will not be.

They may target a few Conservative seats but I'm not sure there are many Pro-EU Conservative seats that would vote for a faux Labour MP. I would expect them to challenge in Hastings as an example but they will split the Labour vote thus letting Rudd get back in, something that was never going to happen before this split.

All very interesting except it isn't a party. You can't vote for 'The Independent Group': only individual independent MPs in those 7 strongly Labour-supporting constituencies. So they will only really compete against Labour, at whatever point there is a GE.

Are you saying that they will only stand in their current 7 seats?

And not stand in other constituencies?

I expect they may gain a Conservative MP or 2 in the coming weeks but I doubt that any that do jump would retain their seat in the next GE

Why would they stand elsewhere? They all have strong support where they are (notwithstanding local CLP plotting). The Independent Group is just a limited company for fundraising.

They are not going to put forward candidates in other seats?

They. Aren't. A. Party.

That's not what this is about. They are just 7 Labour MPs who have understandably, had enough of Corbyn.

They aren't a party, yet.

Yes, Corbyn is a joke and McDonnell/Abbott are borderline dangerous, BUT;

1 - they have an open goal as May is useless
2 - the country has been through this before in the 1980s and the SDP, and gave Thatcher free reign to decimate the country
3 - this will make no difference to the Labour cult of personality

It's self indulgence, nothing more.

mrfpb

Roy Jenkins, who led the SDP split, was the mot powerful Labour MP not to lead the Labour Party, but he never got the SDP past a high watermark of 28 MPs in the initial phase, and this shrank at the '83 and '87 elections. After that they ceased to exist.

There is no one in the 7 or anyone (as far as I know) contemplating joining them who is likely to do any better than the SDP managed back then. I'd be surprised if they manged to get as far as the next election intact. Even if the election happens 4 weeks after Brexit day.

rjsterry

Sgt.Pepper wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

Well done Stevo. Your plan has worked. It was close to failing due to the incompetence of TM. Hopefully the Tories replace her with someone competent to comfortably win the next GE otherwise all this will be for nothing.

The Tories don't have my vote yet though!

It's good to know that my £3 subscription wasn't wasted

This will just entrench views on either side. Both lots of hardliners love to nurse a grievance. Result: more ineffectual government in hock to whichever special interest group wants to cause trouble and more and more of the population feeling disenfranchised.

This is likely to split the current Labour and Lib Dem vote depending on how many candidates this new party puts up.

It is now in direct competition to the LD's so you would expect them to challenge for those seats, unless some deal is done.

Then, I'm sure they'll target certain Labour seats that they think they have the best chance in but the likes of Corbyn, McDonnell & Abbott are safe as they are strong far left seats but others will not be.

They may target a few Conservative seats but I'm not sure there are many Pro-EU Conservative seats that would vote for a faux Labour MP. I would expect them to challenge in Hastings as an example but they will split the Labour vote thus letting Rudd get back in, something that was never going to happen before this split.

All very interesting except it isn't a party. You can't vote for 'The Independent Group': only individual independent MPs in those 7 strongly Labour-supporting constituencies. So they will only really compete against Labour, at whatever point there is a GE.

Are you saying that they will only stand in their current 7 seats?

And not stand in other constituencies?

I expect they may gain a Conservative MP or 2 in the coming weeks but I doubt that any that do jump would retain their seat in the next GE

Why would they stand elsewhere? They all have strong support where they are (notwithstanding local CLP plotting). The Independent Group is just a limited company for fundraising.

They are not going to put forward candidates in other seats?

They. Aren't. A. Party.

That's not what this is about. They are just 7 Labour MPs who have understandably, had enough of Corbyn.

They aren't a party, yet.

Yes, Corbyn is a joke and McDonnell/Abbott are borderline dangerous, BUT;

1 - they have an open goal as May is useless
2 - the country has been through this before in the 1980s and the SDP, and gave Thatcher free reign to decimate the country
3 - this will make no difference to the Labour cult of personality

It's self indulgence, nothing more.

I hardly think it's self indulgent to be effectively constructively dismissed from the party. Behind the expressions of sadness, the Corbynites can barely contain their glee that the unbelievers have gone. Should they just sit tight and put up with being called traitor by their supposed colleagues?

pinno

It's slightly ironic when a while back Umunna was in the mix for Labour Party Leader.
What happens if they gain momentum and collectively wield a bit of power, without being a party or having a manifesto?

morstar

mrfpb wrote:

Roy Jenkins, who led the SDP split, was the mot powerful Labour MP not to lead the Labour Party, but he never got the SDP past a high watermark of 28 MPs in the initial phase, and this shrank at the '83 and '87 elections. After that they ceased to exist.

There is no one in the 7 or anyone (as far as I know) contemplating joining them who is likely to do any better than the SDP managed back then. I'd be surprised if they manged to get as far as the next election intact. Even if the election happens 4 weeks after Brexit day.

I'm inclined to agree, but surely Trump and Brexit indicate that anything is possible. The internet is disrupting life as we knew/know it. e.g. shopping, music, communication, education and so on. Politics is no more immune than any other aspect of life.

sgt.pepper

rjsterry wrote:

Sgt.Pepper wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

Well done Stevo. Your plan has worked. It was close to failing due to the incompetence of TM. Hopefully the Tories replace her with someone competent to comfortably win the next GE otherwise all this will be for nothing.

The Tories don't have my vote yet though!

It's good to know that my £3 subscription wasn't wasted

This will just entrench views on either side. Both lots of hardliners love to nurse a grievance. Result: more ineffectual government in hock to whichever special interest group wants to cause trouble and more and more of the population feeling disenfranchised.

This is likely to split the current Labour and Lib Dem vote depending on how many candidates this new party puts up.

It is now in direct competition to the LD's so you would expect them to challenge for those seats, unless some deal is done.

Then, I'm sure they'll target certain Labour seats that they think they have the best chance in but the likes of Corbyn, McDonnell & Abbott are safe as they are strong far left seats but others will not be.

They may target a few Conservative seats but I'm not sure there are many Pro-EU Conservative seats that would vote for a faux Labour MP. I would expect them to challenge in Hastings as an example but they will split the Labour vote thus letting Rudd get back in, something that was never going to happen before this split.

All very interesting except it isn't a party. You can't vote for 'The Independent Group': only individual independent MPs in those 7 strongly Labour-supporting constituencies. So they will only really compete against Labour, at whatever point there is a GE.

Are you saying that they will only stand in their current 7 seats?

And not stand in other constituencies?

I expect they may gain a Conservative MP or 2 in the coming weeks but I doubt that any that do jump would retain their seat in the next GE

Why would they stand elsewhere? They all have strong support where they are (notwithstanding local CLP plotting). The Independent Group is just a limited company for fundraising.

They are not going to put forward candidates in other seats?

They. Aren't. A. Party.

That's not what this is about. They are just 7 Labour MPs who have understandably, had enough of Corbyn.

They aren't a party, yet.

Yes, Corbyn is a joke and McDonnell/Abbott are borderline dangerous, BUT;

1 - they have an open goal as May is useless
2 - the country has been through this before in the 1980s and the SDP, and gave Thatcher free reign to decimate the country
3 - this will make no difference to the Labour cult of personality

It's self indulgence, nothing more.

I hardly think it's self indulgent to be effectively constructively dismissed from the party. Behind the expressions of sadness, the Corbynites can barely contain their glee that the unbelievers have gone. Should they just sit tight and put up with being called traitor by their supposed colleagues?

Yes. I don't deny that it's a terrible situation, but under FPTP you don't have a choice. For all his later mistakes, the Blair government achieved some amazing feats because they kept their mouths shut through the Foot years.

I'd say 'it's not their fault we have such a terrible electoral system,' but considering the shambolic AV referendum it hilariously kind of is.

pinno

Nobody listens to me.

Stevo_666

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Depends what working well means.

If you mean serving your own interests at the expense of overall national net gain then yes.

If labour had better leaders the Tories would not be so sh!t themselves.

Sh1t is relative as I'm sure you will be aware as the member of a fringe party.

In this case I believe my own interests and those of the nation are aligned. Would you want Corbyn in number 10? (It's OK, I already know the answer...)

Not a free marketer but self serving rentier. Standard.

Whatever makes you think I'm one of those?

Nice use use of fancy words btw.

It’s a real bugbear of mine. When it really matters, people on the right are often not actually pro competiton but pro whatever suits them.

The whole advantage the right has is that proper competition has a net gain for everyone.

But instead the focus got on making those at the top of organisations richer and individualised incentives for people to “make it” rather than focusing on keeping competiton as high a possible for the net good.

Protecting a firm that has a monopoly because it’s created a bunch of billionaires rather than making sure newer entrants have a fair crack if they’re good enough.

Same applies here to politics. Both labour and Tories and indeed everyone benefits when they all put their best and most able people in the most important positions. A better Labour Party makes for a better Tory Party for everyone.

Instead, having Corbyn as leader has allowed the Tories to sink into their worst and most destructive habits, safe in the knowledge the other half is unelectable.

For a business equivalent, I can continue to rip off my customers because they’re not gonna go anywhere else.

Understand the real value of your ideology for the net good, rather than your own self serving interest.

I dont care if you do have a chip on your shoulder about it.

You called me a rentier (so we all know you're a well educated job salesman) when I've already stated I'm all for competition and all I'm doing is competing. If you don't like the methods, tough.

Anyway, Sadiq has it right:
https://www.itv.com/news/london/2019-02-18/sadiq-khan-labour-shockingly-poor-at-dealing-with-anti-semitism/

"History tells us that when the Labour Party splits, it leads to the Conservative Party winning the next election and the one after that and the one after that."

– SADIQ KHAN, MAYOR OF LONDON

Bring it on!

DeVlaeminck

I don't think this is that bad for Labour. Better having the opposition outside the party than inside. Yes of course it would be better to have a united party without this split but that hasn't been the case for a while.

If these 7 sink without trace it may make some others toe the line for fear of sacrificing their own careers, of course if they garner support then we may see a full scale Labour split as others jump on the bandwagon but I don't see how they stay relevant as a group of 7 unless they come clean on a future plan for something bigger.

rjsterry

Sgt.Pepper wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Sgt.Pepper wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

Well done Stevo. Your plan has worked. It was close to failing due to the incompetence of TM. Hopefully the Tories replace her with someone competent to comfortably win the next GE otherwise all this will be for nothing.

The Tories don't have my vote yet though!

It's good to know that my £3 subscription wasn't wasted

This will just entrench views on either side. Both lots of hardliners love to nurse a grievance. Result: more ineffectual government in hock to whichever special interest group wants to cause trouble and more and more of the population feeling disenfranchised.

This is likely to split the current Labour and Lib Dem vote depending on how many candidates this new party puts up.

It is now in direct competition to the LD's so you would expect them to challenge for those seats, unless some deal is done.

Then, I'm sure they'll target certain Labour seats that they think they have the best chance in but the likes of Corbyn, McDonnell & Abbott are safe as they are strong far left seats but others will not be.

They may target a few Conservative seats but I'm not sure there are many Pro-EU Conservative seats that would vote for a faux Labour MP. I would expect them to challenge in Hastings as an example but they will split the Labour vote thus letting Rudd get back in, something that was never going to happen before this split.

All very interesting except it isn't a party. You can't vote for 'The Independent Group': only individual independent MPs in those 7 strongly Labour-supporting constituencies. So they will only really compete against Labour, at whatever point there is a GE.

Are you saying that they will only stand in their current 7 seats?

And not stand in other constituencies?

I expect they may gain a Conservative MP or 2 in the coming weeks but I doubt that any that do jump would retain their seat in the next GE

Why would they stand elsewhere? They all have strong support where they are (notwithstanding local CLP plotting). The Independent Group is just a limited company for fundraising.

They are not going to put forward candidates in other seats?

They. Aren't. A. Party.

That's not what this is about. They are just 7 Labour MPs who have understandably, had enough of Corbyn.

They aren't a party, yet.

Yes, Corbyn is a joke and McDonnell/Abbott are borderline dangerous, BUT;

1 - they have an open goal as May is useless
2 - the country has been through this before in the 1980s and the SDP, and gave Thatcher free reign to decimate the country
3 - this will make no difference to the Labour cult of personality

It's self indulgence, nothing more.

I hardly think it's self indulgent to be effectively constructively dismissed from the party. Behind the expressions of sadness, the Corbynites can barely contain their glee that the unbelievers have gone. Should they just sit tight and put up with being called traitor by their supposed colleagues?

Yes. I don't deny that it's a terrible situation, but under FPTP you don't have a choice. For all his later mistakes, the Blair government achieved some amazing feats because they kept their mouths shut through the Foot years.

I'd say 'it's not their fault we have such a terrible electoral system,' but considering the shambolic AV referendum it hilariously kind of is.

Blair became an MP the year Foot stepped down so don't think there was any need to keep his mouth shut.

DeVlaeminck

It wouldn't actually surprise me if 1 or 2 end up as Tory or Lib Dem MPs and Chukka takes the Miliband route and gets some high profile job with an NGO or major charity. Something that will feed his ego but disguises the fact he has no constituency in the country.