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  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,549
    Comments from Soubry, Wollaston and Allen: entryism is as much a problem in CCPs as in Labour CLPs.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,436
    rjsterry wrote:
    Comments from Soubry, Wollaston and Allen: entryism is as much a problem in CCPs as in Labour CLPs.

    IIRC it's these 3 plus Grieve and Boles who have been targeted by Leave EU
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,549
    TailWindHome wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Comments from Soubry, Wollaston and Allen: entryism is as much a problem in CCPs as in Labour CLPs.

    IIRC it's these 3 plus Grieve and Boles who have been targeted by Leave EU

    Yes. They've seen it work so well for the hard left in Labour so can't be surprised that they've adopted the tactics.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,436
    Hatton's been suspended from the Labour Party
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • coopster_the_1st
    coopster_the_1st Posts: 5,158
    TailWindHome wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Comments from Soubry, Wollaston and Allen: entryism is as much a problem in CCPs as in Labour CLPs.

    IIRC it's these 3 plus Grieve and Boles who have been targeted by Leave EU

    They are really selective around which democratic votes they like...

    I'm sure they are all for calling a "People's vote" in their constituencies :lol::lol::lol:
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,549
    Love how neither Corbyn nor May mentioned the defections at PMQ.

    Act normal; nothing has changed.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 15,930
    The Indy group are already out polling the Libdems. They haven't even got a spokesperson yet, never mind any policies.

    https://news.sky.com/story/independent- ... l-11642205
  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 15,930
    Coopster the 1st wrote:
    TailWindHome wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    Comments from Soubry, Wollaston and Allen: entryism is as much a problem in CCPs as in Labour CLPs.

    IIRC it's these 3 plus Grieve and Boles who have been targeted by Leave EU

    They are really selective around which democratic votes they like...

    I'm sure they are all for calling a "People's vote" in their constituencies :lol::lol::lol:

    As much as it must gall some on here to admit it, Coopster ain't wrong is he? :wink:
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,396
    Ballysmate wrote:
    They haven't even got a spokesperson yet, never mind any policies.
    Sounds a lot like the Lib Dems in a couple of respects then :D
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • sgt.pepper
    sgt.pepper Posts: 300
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    TailWindHome wrote:
    This is the remain block forming

    About f***ing time.
    Possibly too late.

    Although look on the bright side, in the space of 2 days they have pretty much same level of parliamentary clout as the Lib Dems have in over 30 years :D

    Because of a pathetic electoral system, not lack of popularity.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    The bigger question for me is whether the Lib Dem’s are really so toxic that they couldn’t invite these folks into their party.
    _
  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 15,930
    Sgt.Pepper wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    TailWindHome wrote:
    This is the remain block forming

    About f***ing time.
    Possibly too late.

    Although look on the bright side, in the space of 2 days they have pretty much same level of parliamentary clout as the Lib Dems have in over 30 years :D

    Because of a pathetic electoral system, not lack of popularity.

    The same pathetic electoral system that prevented UKIP winning about 100 seats in 215 after polling as many votes as SNP and Libdems combined?
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,396
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    The bigger question for me is whether the Lib Dem’s are really so toxic that they couldn’t invite these folks into their party.
    Pretty sure Chukka ruled out a merger with the Lib Dems from day 1. I guess he wants to give his new party a fighting chance of success.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 15,930
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    Rick Chasey wrote:
    The bigger question for me is whether the Lib Dem’s are really so toxic that they couldn’t invite these folks into their party.
    Pretty sure Chukka ruled out a merger with the Lib Dems from day 1. I guess he wants to give his new party a fighting chance of success.

    No, its much simpler than that Stevo. Chukka hasn't got a pair of sandals.
  • tailwindhome
    tailwindhome Posts: 19,436
    Apparently the lawyer who sued Katie Hopkins on behalf of Jack Monroe is suing Corbynista Twitter on behalf of Rachel Riley
    “New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!
  • sgt.pepper
    sgt.pepper Posts: 300
    Ballysmate wrote:
    Sgt.Pepper wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    TailWindHome wrote:
    This is the remain block forming

    About f***ing time.
    Possibly too late.

    Although look on the bright side, in the space of 2 days they have pretty much same level of parliamentary clout as the Lib Dems have in over 30 years :D

    Because of a pathetic electoral system, not lack of popularity.

    The same pathetic electoral system that prevented UKIP winning about 100 seats in 215 after polling as many votes as SNP and Libdems combined?

    Is that a good thing? I might not agree with their policies, but if people want to vote for UKIP then surely they have a right to have their democratic voices heard?

    And don't forget that sort of tedious elitism is exactly what led to the rise of UKIP in the first place.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    Sgt.Pepper wrote:
    Ballysmate wrote:
    Sgt.Pepper wrote:
    Stevo 666 wrote:
    rjsterry wrote:
    TailWindHome wrote:
    This is the remain block forming

    About f***ing time.
    Possibly too late.

    Although look on the bright side, in the space of 2 days they have pretty much same level of parliamentary clout as the Lib Dems have in over 30 years :D

    Because of a pathetic electoral system, not lack of popularity.

    The same pathetic electoral system that prevented UKIP winning about 100 seats in 215 after polling as many votes as SNP and Libdems combined?

    Is that a good thing? I might not agree with their policies, but if people want to vote for UKIP then surely they have a right to have their democratic voices heard?

    And don't forget that sort of tedious elitism is exactly what led to the rise of UKIP in the first place.

    Agree, that demonstrates the wrongness of our electoral system
  • ballysmate
    ballysmate Posts: 15,930
    Never mind. UKIP were able to translate their electoal votes into pressure on the government in the end to force a referendum. Their voters got the representation in the end that their share of the polls warranted so everyone is happy, no?
  • sgt.pepper
    sgt.pepper Posts: 300
    Ballysmate wrote:
    Never mind. UKIP were able to translate their electoal votes into pressure on the government in the end to force a referendum. Their voters got the representation in the end that their share of the polls warranted so everyone is happy, no?

    True, except that they were ignored for about 2-3 decades prior to that and only got a chance to voice their frustration on the freak event that a leader had a referendum to quell his own internal party squabbles.

    The delicious irony being that he only did so as he thought he'd win it, because that section of the population is so forgotten about that all the Oxbridge lot (in both parties) running the country didn't even know they existed (or wished they didn't).
  • shirley_basso
    shirley_basso Posts: 6,195
    rjsterry wrote:
    Love how neither Corbyn nor May mentioned the defections at PMQ.

    Act normal; nothing has changed.

    BBC reporting
    "PMQ has the aire of a middle class supper party where everyone is pretending there hasn't been an enormous social faux pas"
  • morstar
    morstar Posts: 6,190
    Ballysmate wrote:
    Never mind. UKIP were able to translate their electoal votes into pressure on the government in the end to force a referendum. Their voters got the representation in the end that their share of the polls warranted so everyone is happy, no?

    I disagree. Yes it had an effect definitely but as we can see with Brexit, people can read whatever meaning they want into results. e.g. people voted Brexit because... is easily applied to they voted UKIP because...

    The right thing to have happened was for UKIP to have had representation in the HOC and push their agenda as is/was, not as somebody else interpreted it and how to counter the threat to themselves. UKIP would have either been effective or not and that would influence how people voted next time round. That's democracy, not the current choice between hard left shambles and hard right shambles.

    I can't stand UKIP but fptp is not currently delivering effective or representative governance.
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,104
    : "Jewish people with any sense of humanity need to start speaking out publicly against the ruthless murdering being carried out by Israel."

    Apparently tweeting that several years ago when you aren't a member of the party will get you suspended should you ever choose to join Labour.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 28,152
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    : "Jewish people with any sense of humanity need to start speaking out publicly against the ruthless murdering being carried out by Israel."

    Apparently tweeting that several years ago when you aren't a member of the party will get you suspended should you ever choose to join Labour.

    (If you have a history like Degsy.)
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    Chris Davies charged for fiddling expenses - Tory
    _
  • DeVlaeminck
    DeVlaeminck Posts: 9,104
    It's a problem though if adults in public life can't discuss issues for fear of falling foul of being called anti Semitic. It is being used as a way of shutting down debate over Israel and more widely of simply smearing political opponents. If I were say a Labour councillor I'd probably be risking suspension just for this post.
    [Castle Donington Ladies FC - going up in '22]
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,549
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    : "Jewish people with any sense of humanity need to start speaking out publicly against the ruthless murdering being carried out by Israel."

    Apparently tweeting that several years ago when you aren't a member of the party will get you suspended should you ever choose to join Labour.

    Derek Hatton? I mean it's odd that they picked that particular thing to bring up, but any reason will do.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,549
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    It's a problem though if adults in public life can't discuss issues for fear of falling foul of being called anti Semitic. It is being used as a way of shutting down debate over Israel and more widely of simply smearing political opponents. If I were say a Labour councillor I'd probably be risking suspension just for this post.

    Is that really what you think Hatton was doing?

    Never trust anyone that makes up their own nickname.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 61,396
    rjsterry wrote:
    Never trust anyone that makes up their own nickname.
    True, especially on this forum.
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • tangled_metal
    tangled_metal Posts: 4,021
    rjsterry wrote:
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    : "Jewish people with any sense of humanity need to start speaking out publicly against the ruthless murdering being carried out by Israel."

    Apparently tweeting that several years ago when you aren't a member of the party will get you suspended should you ever choose to join Labour.

    Derek Hatton? I mean it's odd that they picked that particular thing to bring up, but any reason will do.
    Do you mean to say that if you wanted a reason to kick him out these days you could have picked any number of better reasons than that tweet? You're probably right.

    He's probably said or typed far worse but perhaps they couldn't use it because key Corbyn supporters have said those other things without sanctions too. Just an idea.
  • Thigh_burn
    Thigh_burn Posts: 489
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    : "Jewish people with any sense of humanity need to start speaking out publicly against the ruthless murdering being carried out by Israel."

    Apparently tweeting that several years ago when you aren't a member of the party will get you suspended should you ever choose to join Labour.

    Ok let me explain why this is antisemitic and why it isn't an attempt at stifling debate, which I'm inferring you're getting at based on:
    DeVlaeminck wrote:
    It's a problem though if adults in public life can't discuss issues for fear of falling foul of being called anti Semitic. It is being used as a way of shutting down debate over Israel and more widely of simply smearing political opponents.
    Jewish people
    He's calling to everyone based on their religion and assuming they'll have one view/opinion. (anti-semitic trope right there)
    ...with any sense of humanity...
    Jews who don't agree with him aren't human (antisemitic trope right there)
    ...need to start...
    They haven't done it to date and given what he's said already, we know that makes all Jews sub-human (antisemitic trope right there)
    ...ruthless murdering being carried out by Israel...
    Why's it incumbent on all (to-date) sub-human Jews to comment on Israel? Is it perhaps because he thinks we have unfailing and unquestioning loyalty to Israel - what could be described at best as dual-loyalty? (guess what, antisemitic trope right there).

    So what he said was dripping with antisemitism. That's why he was suspended. It's also why he shouldn't have been allowed in.

    On a broader point, having been born in this country and being Jewish and now middle age, I am genuinely scared and saddened that so many people could not care less about the vile racism that is being flaunted. I don't understand why the response is so often a shrug of the shoulders or dismissive. I know this is self-interested, but I would have thought that with so many Jews saying "this is antisemitic, it is hurtful", others would listen. The weird thing is, too often the response to that is "oh it's not that bad, and anyway Israel..."

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