Join the Labour Party and save your country!

bianchimoon

TailWindHome wrote:

Thing is. The lunatics have taken over both asylums.

Not good.

True, the whole Toby Young 'join the labour party' is politics at its worse, buying, stealing votes from genuine labour supporters to disenfranchise them, as bad as the Russians in the US elections and EU vote. Of course politics has always been dirty but to celebrate it is another matter.

bianchimoon

Stevo 666 wrote:

All I'm doing is helping tilt the tables away from the most damaging bunch, who are most definitely not middle of any road Today could be interesting. Go rebels!

Not sure what you mean, you helped the most damaging bunch get in to the detriment of a more moderate labour?

Stevo_666

bianchimoon wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

All I'm doing is helping tilt the tables away from the most damaging bunch, who are most definitely not middle of any road Today could be interesting. Go rebels!

Not sure what you mean, you helped the most damaging bunch get in to the detriment of a more moderate labour?

The 7 MPs who have just announced they are leaving a hard left Labour have just damaged that party.

More to come?

Stevo_666

bianchimoon wrote:

TailWindHome wrote:

Thing is. The lunatics have taken over both asylums.

Not good.

True, the whole Toby Young 'join the labour party' is politics at its worse, buying, stealing votes from genuine labour supporters to disenfranchise them, as bad as the Russians in the US elections and EU vote. Of course politics has always been dirty but to celebrate it is another matter.

I've been doing it since June 2015. As if I care whether that upsets people

Anyhow, it's for our own good. After all, the electorate cant be trusted with complex decisions according to the Brexit thread

rolf_f

bianchimoon wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

bianchimoon wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Pross wrote:

Expectation that several MPs are going to announce they are leaving the party today.

I love when a plan comes together

Serious question, why do you think it’s so good to have a one party state?

I don't. Labour wont go away. Also there are quite a few other parties, they just aren't very successful.

No they won't go away, but Toby Young and his followers have made it difficult for 'bog standard middle of the road voters' to have a choice, the aim to make labour unelectable, a de facto one party state. Just wondered why you wouldn't want people to have a choice.

For some reason he thinks that the Tory govt is a beacon of competency despite overwhelming evidence that they are a bunch of grossly incompetent, self serving piles of excrement. Obviously there's a lot of the same in Labour which Stevo can see but he seems not to see the similarities where the Conservatives are concerned.

Quite why anyone would vote for either party right now is completely beyond me.....

bianchimoon

Rolf F wrote:

bianchimoon wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

bianchimoon wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Pross wrote:

Expectation that several MPs are going to announce they are leaving the party today.

I love when a plan comes together

Serious question, why do you think it’s so good to have a one party state?

I don't. Labour wont go away. Also there are quite a few other parties, they just aren't very successful.

No they won't go away, but Toby Young and his followers have made it difficult for 'bog standard middle of the road voters' to have a choice, the aim to make labour unelectable, a de facto one party state. Just wondered why you wouldn't want people to have a choice.

For some reason he thinks that the Tory govt is a beacon of competency despite overwhelming evidence that they are a bunch of grossly incompetent, self serving piles of excrement. Obviously there's a lot of the same in Labour which Stevo can see but he seems not to see the similarities where the Conservatives are concerned.

Quite why anyone would vote for either party right now is completely beyond me.....

Me too, I have in my mind at least always voted for the 'least' worse party I have voted conservative, labour and liberal at various times depending on my view of the state of the country. Always trying to pour oil on troubled waters, keep everything stable and calm. That's why I can't undertand why people want to agitate. i.e. Trump, Russia, JRM,BoJo, JC/JMcD etc?

tailwindhome

The Independent Group thing is quite clever

Some Tories may decide to sit with this group temporarily

rjsterry

As posted previously, a pro-Brexit donor to the Conservative party has already registered a new party - Brexit Express - to try and force TM's arm towards a no-deal exit, which would in turn to lead to resignations from a party already unable to form a workable majority or get its business through parliament. Both parties have been undermined, and I'm not sure there is a way back.

rick_chasey

Disagree with the analysis that Brexit split labour.

Corbyn & his wing have split it.

rjsterry

Rick Chasey wrote:

Disagree with the analysis that Brexit split labour.

Corbyn & his wing have split it.

Not sure you can meaningfully separate the two.

SJH76

TailWindHome wrote:

The Independent Group thing is quite clever

Some Tories may decide to sit with this group temporarily

It's a case of self sacrifice really. Come the next election their seats will be taken by another labour candidate. The labour party is big enough to replace them. Apart from Chuka Umunna, the rest are pretty anonymous.

They can say they want to change the direction the party is going and condemn the anti-Semitism in the party but would that not be better done from the inside ? This just keeps the Tories in power. So come the next election, you lose your seat, you lose your influence and you hand power to the opposition.

rick_chasey

I mean a Jewish MP leaving mainly because of the rampant anti-semitism in the leading left wing party in the U.K. is a travesty and ought not be swept under the carpet.

mrfpb

Any sign of Owen Smith in Westminster today?

kingstonian

Rick Chasey wrote:

I mean a Jewish MP leaving mainly because of the rampant anti-semitism in the leading left wing party in the U.K. is a travesty and ought not be swept under the carpet.

Spot on.

shirley_basso

Didn’t we have a discussion as to what anti Semitic actually means?

It’s quite a severe allegation in my mind whereas the definition of an anti semilite is quite broad.

rjsterry

Rick Chasey wrote:

I mean a Jewish MP leaving mainly because of the rampant anti-semitism in the leading left wing party in the U.K. is a travesty and ought not be swept under the carpet.

Brooms are in evidence.

Corbyn said he was “disappointed that these MPs have felt unable to continue to work together for the Labour policies that inspired millions at the last election and saw us increase our vote by the largest share since 1945”.

National vote share means nothing in a FPTP system, but sure, let's talk about that instead :roll:.

bobmcstuff

Shirley Basso wrote:

Didn’t we have a discussion as to what anti Semitic actually means?

It’s quite a severe allegation in my mind whereas the definition of an anti semilite is quite broad.

Yes, the IHRA definition of anti-semitism is very broad and in practice can be used to define criticism of Israel as anti-Semitism which is why Corbyn wouldn't sign up to it https://www.holocaustremembrance.com/wo ... tisemitism

In particular this bit: "Applying double standards by requiring of it a behavior not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation", because it is very subjective.

However some of the stuff that's alleged to have gone on and is proven to have gone on in the Labour party is quite a bit beyond that.

rick_chasey

Shirley Basso wrote:

Didn’t we have a discussion as to what anti Semitic actually means?

It’s quite a severe allegation in my mind whereas the definition of an anti semilite is quite broad.

Prejudiced against Jews?

tailwindhome

Angela Smith owes someone at Honda a pint.

coopster_the_1st

Well done Stevo. Your plan has worked. It was close to failing due to the incompetence of TM. Hopefully the Tories replace her with someone competent to comfortably win the next GE otherwise all this will be for nothing.

The Tories don't have my vote yet though!

tangled_metal

Someone mentioned the phrase "middle of the road parties". Can anyone tell me which party fits that b description because I really can't think of one in the UK.

The next GE looks set to be about picking which inmates you want to run the asylum. I used to vote on the basis of mostly tory but at times I find them beyond my politics tastes so I vote for the least worse option available. Although that has been conservatives as well at times. Right now there isn't a least worse option. I'm glad a GE isn't until 2022. That's possibly long enough to sort the politics out.

I wonder if more Labour MPs join the seven then the v split might be high enough for the tories to ditch the ERG? The best option is for Labour to disintegrate leaving the looney Lefties and the ERG get fcuked.

rjsterry

Stevo 666 wrote:

bianchimoon wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

bianchimoon wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Pross wrote:

Expectation that several MPs are going to announce they are leaving the party today.

I love when a plan comes together

Serious question, why do you think it’s so good to have a one party state?

I don't. Labour wont go away. Also there are quite a few other parties, they just aren't very successful.

No they won't go away, but Toby Young and his followers have made it difficult for 'bog standard middle of the road voters' to have a choice, the aim to make labour unelectable, a de facto one party state. Just wondered why you wouldn't want people to have a choice.

They do have a choice; it's not my problem if not enough people vote for the 'middle of the road' parties.

All I'm doing is helping tilt the tables away from the most damaging bunch, who are most definitely not middle of any road unless it's the trans Venezuelan highway - hence the thread title.

Today could be interesting. Go rebels!

I don't think 7 defections changes much for either of the main parties. Whether the next election is soon or in 2022, I think a big swing in voting in those constituencies is unlikely, so the 7 will either keep their seats or be replaced by a Corbyn loyalist. If they keep their seats they are more than likely going to vote with Labour on most matters and very unlikely to vote with the Conservatives unless they have a dramatic change of direction. More of the same for now, I fear.

Pross

Tangled Metal wrote:

Someone mentioned the phrase "middle of the road parties". Can anyone tell me which party fits that b description because I really can't think of one in the UK.

The next GE looks set to be about picking which inmates you want to run the asylum. I used to vote on the basis of mostly tory but at times I find them beyond my politics tastes so I vote for the least worse option available. Although that has been conservatives as well at times. Right now there isn't a least worse option. I'm glad a GE isn't until 2022. That's possibly long enough to sort the politics out.

I wonder if more Labour MPs join the seven then the v split might be high enough for the tories to ditch the ERG? The best option is for Labour to disintegrate leaving the looney Lefties and the ERG get fcuked.

Lib Dems possibly but we live in a strange country politically where for some reason a vast majority of people will only consider voting for one of the two 'big' parties no matter how much history shows them to have messed up.

tangled_metal

At one point LibDems were more left wing than Labour. Where are they positioned now?

I'm really not sure these days. I suspect they haven't moved but labour has leapfrogged them to come out more left wing. Interested enough to ask you guys.

Pross

Tangled Metal wrote:

At one point LibDems were more left wing than Labour. Where are they positioned now?

I'm really not sure these days. I suspect they haven't moved but labour has leapfrogged them to come out more left wing. Interested enough to ask you guys.

Who knows, they don't seem to say anything or at least lack the charisma to get anything they do say reported. Other than opposing Brexit I don't know a single one of their policies but I suspect you are right and they are left of centre whereas Labour have lurched towards the Far Left and the Tories are in danger of being controlled by those leaning towards the Far Right so centre left is about as middle of the road as you can currently get.

rjsterry

Tangled Metal wrote:

At one point LibDems were more left wing than Labour. Where are they positioned now?

I'm really not sure these days. I suspect they haven't moved but labour has leapfrogged them to come out more left wing. Interested enough to ask you guys.

Not sure how they were ever to the left of Labour, even at peak Blair. They cover a spectrum like any party.

bobmcstuff

Pross wrote:

Tangled Metal wrote:

At one point LibDems were more left wing than Labour. Where are they positioned now?

I'm really not sure these days. I suspect they haven't moved but labour has leapfrogged them to come out more left wing. Interested enough to ask you guys.

Who knows, they don't seem to say anything or at least lack the charisma to get anything they do say reported. Other than opposing Brexit I don't know a single one of their policies but I suspect you are right and they are left of centre whereas Labour have lurched towards the Far Left and the Tories are in danger of being controlled by those leaning towards the Far Right so centre left is about as middle of the road as you can currently get.

They are liberals - both socially and economically. As compared to Labour and the Conservatives who are only liberal in one of those categories and illiberal in the other.

I suppose that makes them centrist.

But as above there's a spectrum.

I don't know a lot about their current policies either.

Stevo_666

Coopster the 1st wrote:

Well done Stevo. Your plan has worked. It was close to failing due to the incompetence of TM. Hopefully the Tories replace her with someone competent to comfortably win the next GE otherwise all this will be for nothing.

The Tories don't have my vote yet though!

It's good to know that my £3 subscription wasn't wasted

rjsterry

Stevo 666 wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

Well done Stevo. Your plan has worked. It was close to failing due to the incompetence of TM. Hopefully the Tories replace her with someone competent to comfortably win the next GE otherwise all this will be for nothing.

The Tories don't have my vote yet though!

It's good to know that my £3 subscription wasn't wasted

This will just entrench views on either side. Both lots of hardliners love to nurse a grievance. Result: more ineffectual government in hock to whichever special interest group wants to cause trouble and more and more of the population feeling disenfranchised.

Stevo_666

rjsterry wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Coopster the 1st wrote:

Well done Stevo. Your plan has worked. It was close to failing due to the incompetence of TM. Hopefully the Tories replace her with someone competent to comfortably win the next GE otherwise all this will be for nothing.

The Tories don't have my vote yet though!

It's good to know that my £3 subscription wasn't wasted

This will just entrench views on either side. Both lots of hardliners love to nurse a grievance. Result: more ineffectual government in hock to whichever special interest group wants to cause trouble and more and more of the population feeling disenfranchised.

But more importantly it appears to be entrenching Labour in opposition, which was the whole point in the first place