Join the Labour Party and save your country!

shortfall

rjsterry wrote:

bompington wrote:

Shortfall wrote:

I don't mind McDonnell criticising Churchill (a great man indeed but with many indisputable flaws) but why does he remain tight lipped on the bloodstained left wing tyrants who have slaughtered millions in the name of his beloved Marxist ideology?

Oh, I don't know about tight lipped:

McDonnell wrote:

Asked to name the “most significant” influences on his thought, McDonnell (who was then standing for the Labour leadership) replied: “The fundamental Marxist writers of Marx, Lenin and Trotsky, basically.”

Holding Marx responsible for Stalin's crimes is a bit of a stretch.

I don't hold Marx directly responsible but it does seem to be a feature of many Marxist regimes that they end in either famine, tyranny, economic collapse of any combination of thereof. If John McDonnell is on record being critical of left wing dictators and failed Marxist regimes then it's escaped me but I have seen plenty of evidence of him either offering support or apologizing for them. What for instance has he had to say about the unfolding tragedy in Venezuela? Where are his criticisms of the leaders and the regime that have brought the country to it's knees?

bompington

Shortfall wrote:

If John McDonnell is on record being critical of left wing dictators and failed Marxist regimes then it's escaped me but I have seen plenty of evidence of him either offering support or apologizing for them. What for instance has he had to say about the unfolding tragedy in Venezuela? Where are his criticisms of the leaders and the regime that have brought the country to it's knees?

It's a simple trick - each new socialist regime is held up as "at last, real socialism that we can all admire and imitate" until it collapses in oppression, poverty and chaos, and then without apparent effort it suddenly becomes "but that wasn't real socialism at all, it was a distortion and the next one will be the real thing"

surrey_commuter

Shortfall wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

bompington wrote:

Shortfall wrote:

I don't mind McDonnell criticising Churchill (a great man indeed but with many indisputable flaws) but why does he remain tight lipped on the bloodstained left wing tyrants who have slaughtered millions in the name of his beloved Marxist ideology?

Oh, I don't know about tight lipped:

McDonnell wrote:

Asked to name the “most significant” influences on his thought, McDonnell (who was then standing for the Labour leadership) replied: “The fundamental Marxist writers of Marx, Lenin and Trotsky, basically.”

Holding Marx responsible for Stalin's crimes is a bit of a stretch.

I don't hold Marx directly responsible but it does seem to be a feature of many Marxist regimes that they end in either famine, tyranny, economic collapse of any combination of thereof. If John McDonnell is on record being critical of left wing dictators and failed Marxist regimes then it's escaped me but I have seen plenty of evidence of him either offering support or apologizing for them. What for instance has he had to say about the unfolding tragedy in Venezuela? Where are his criticisms of the leaders and the regime that have brought the country to it's knees?

As a theory Marxism makes more sense than most. It's advocates would argue that it has never been fully implemented

shortfall

bompington wrote:

Shortfall wrote:

If John McDonnell is on record being critical of left wing dictators and failed Marxist regimes then it's escaped me but I have seen plenty of evidence of him either offering support or apologizing for them. What for instance has he had to say about the unfolding tragedy in Venezuela? Where are his criticisms of the leaders and the regime that have brought the country to it's knees?

It's a simple trick - each new socialist regime is held up as "at last, real socialism that we can all admire and imitate" until it collapses in oppression, poverty and chaos, and then without apparent effort it suddenly becomes "but that wasn't real socialism at all, it was a distortion and the next one will be the real thing"

See post by Bompington above. It's a very well worn and extremely thin excuse.

rjsterry

Talk of a breakaway from both Labour and the Conservatives seems to be becoming a bit more than just a rumour. Momentum are ruffled enough to have put out a statement claiming it won't amount to anything because socialism is now the mainstream and there is no public support for a Blairite agenda. Um, OK, sure.

Momentum really don't seem to get that still being behind the Conservatives in the polls when the latter is not even functioning as a government, is not a sign public endorsement.

rick_chasey

Baffled by Tories getting so snooty about the student climate change march.

They do know by 2022 they’ll all be voters, right?

They do know they do not have a majority for anyone under the age of 40, right?

They do know what is going on re climate change?

Increasingly becoming the party of old age influenced nihilism.

rick_chasey

Meanwhile, the degredation of the democratic system continues.

No surprises those who want to degrade it target women

female MPs have been forced to move house and hire bodyguards as tensions over Brexit fuel intimidation and abuse, The Times can reveal.

Some MPs have been bullied into changing their position on crucial votes after being targeted by extremists, according to senior figures such as Harriet Harman, the former deputy Labour leader.

One female parliamentarian has been advised by police not to travel at night on her own, another has been told not to drive herself and a third has been advised not to run in her local park.

Several of those targeted say that police are failing to clamp down on the threats and in some cases are siding with the abusers."

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brex ... 1550303802

shortfall

Rick Chasey wrote:

Baffled by Tories getting so snooty about the student climate change march.

They do know by 2022 they’ll all be voters, right?

They do know they do not have a majority for anyone under the age of 40, right?

They do know what is going on re climate change?

Increasingly becoming the party of old age influenced nihilism.

Call me a Gammon but should it really the Conservative Party's shtick to support kids going on strike? All this vote grabbing sh1te ever did was to make the Tories and New Labour largely indistinguishable from one another. Conservatism is supposedly about actually conserving things like marriage, religion, the monarchy and the nation's defences and finances and so on. The Conservative party seems to have forgotten all that and exist merely as a machine to win office.
They're not even very good at that any more.

robert88

Shortfall wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Baffled by Tories getting so snooty about the student climate change march.

They do know by 2022 they’ll all be voters, right?

They do know they do not have a majority for anyone under the age of 40, right?

They do know what is going on re climate change?

Increasingly becoming the party of old age influenced nihilism.

Call me a Gammon but should it really the Conservative Party's shtick to support kids going on strike? All this vote grabbing sh1te ever did was to make the Tories and New Labour largely indistinguishable from one another. Conservatism is supposedly about actually conserving things like marriage, religion, the monarchy and the nation's defences and finances and so on. The Conservative party seems to have forgotten all that and exist merely as a machine to win office.
They're not even very good at that any more.

According to some Tory minister the UK is the world's leading country at combatting climate change. There are some kind of statistics that back this up - all to do with relative gdp, population, type of economy and who you ask.

So there you are, they must be very clued up indeed on climate change.

What we also have to remember is that if there is a no-deal-brexit, Trump will be out there batting for Britain. He won't like climate change protests so they will have to be stopped.

Stevo_666

Well said:
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/02/if-children-want-to-protest-against-climate-change-why-not-do-it-at-the-weekend/

Or do it next week when its the half term hols.

shortfall

Stevo 666 wrote:

Well said:
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/02/if-children-want-to-protest-against-climate-change-why-not-do-it-at-the-weekend/

Or do it next week when its the half term hols.

+1
I live near a school. If kids want to help the environment they could get their fat, lazy little @rses out of their mums massive 4x4s and walk or cycle to school instead. Those who do walk and claim to be concerned about the planet might start by not dropping mountains of litter and fast food cartons on the pavements around the school. As Jordan Peterson was apt to say, set your own house in perfect order before you criticise the world.

rick_chasey

Aaahahaha

Not sure either of you know what the students mean by a ‘strike’ then?

rjsterry

Shortfall wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Well said:
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/02/if-children-want-to-protest-against-climate-change-why-not-do-it-at-the-weekend/

Or do it next week when its the half term hols.

+1
I live near a school. If kids want to help the environment they could get their fat, lazy little @rses out of their mums massive 4x4s and walk or cycle to school instead. Those who do walk and claim to be concerned about the planet might start by not dropping mountains of litter and fast food cartons on the pavements around the school. As Jordan Peterson was apt to say, set your own house in perfect order before you criticise the world.

That idea is from the New Testament, not a Canadian YouTuber. Shall we apply the principle to May's comment about wasting time, too?

Stevo_666

Rick Chasey wrote:

Aaahahaha

Not sure either of you know what the students mean by a ‘strike’ then?

Neither do you. If it is a 'strike' then they're withholding their own education, which harms them. I couldn't care less if they do that, but they might in future.

Stevo_666

rjsterry wrote:

Shortfall wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Well said:
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/02/if-children-want-to-protest-against-climate-change-why-not-do-it-at-the-weekend/

Or do it next week when its the half term hols.

+1
I live near a school. If kids want to help the environment they could get their fat, lazy little @rses out of their mums massive 4x4s and walk or cycle to school instead. Those who do walk and claim to be concerned about the planet might start by not dropping mountains of litter and fast food cartons on the pavements around the school. As Jordan Peterson was apt to say, set your own house in perfect order before you criticise the world.

That idea is from the New Testament, not a Canadian YouTuber. Shall we apply the principle to May's comment about wasting time, too?

Where does it mention whataboutery in the New Testament?

rick_chasey

Stevo 666 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Aaahahaha

Not sure either of you know what the students mean by a ‘strike’ then?

Neither do you. If it is a 'strike' then they're withholding their own education, which harms them. I couldn't care less if they do that, but they might in future.

So why criticise them for it if you couldn’t care less?

Stevo_666

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Aaahahaha

Not sure either of you know what the students mean by a ‘strike’ then?

Neither do you. If it is a 'strike' then they're withholding their own education, which harms them. I couldn't care less if they do that, but they might in future.

So why criticise them for it if you couldn’t care less?

Because it's a stupid thing to do.

surrey_commuter

Rick Chasey wrote:

Aaahahaha

Not sure either of you know what the students mean by a ‘strike’ then?

Make that three of us - what do they mean?

robert88

We don't need no education
We don't need no thought control
No dark sarcasm in the classroom
Teachers leave them kids alone
Hey, teachers, leave them kids alone
All in all it's just another brick in the wall
All in all you're just another brick in the wall
We don't need no education
We don't need no thought control
No dark sarcasm in the classroom
Teachers leave those kids alone
Hey teachers, leave those kids alone
All in all you're just another brick in the wall
All in all you're just another brick in the wall

rjsterry

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Aaahahaha

Not sure either of you know what the students mean by a ‘strike’ then?

Make that three of us - what do they mean?

Well it's a good job that sneering at children reduces CO2 emissions. We can all say we've done our bit.

I'd say the bleeding obvious conclusion is that children are disgusted at the grindingly slow pace of action on the matter. More specifically when pollution around schools is bad enough that they feel the need to fit air filters to the classrooms, and a government has to be repeatedly taken to court by its own citizens in order to make it abide by its own legislation, what would you suggest children do? Shrug their shoulders and assume that their 'elders' have it all in hand?

shortfall

rjsterry wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Aaahahaha

Not sure either of you know what the students mean by a ‘strike’ then?

Make that three of us - what do they mean?

Well it's a good job that sneering at children reduces CO2 emissions. We can all say we've done our bit.

I'd say the bleeding obvious conclusion is that children are disgusted at the grindingly slow pace of action on the matter. More specifically when pollution around schools is bad enough that they feel the need to fit air filters to the classrooms, and a government has to be repeatedly taken to court by its own citizens in order to make it abide by its own legislation, what would you suggest children do? Shrug their shoulders and assume that their 'elders' have it all in hand?

Get out of their parents cars that are causing a lot of that pollution and maybe walk to school? That would actually achieve something, cost nothing and not damage their education.

shortfall

rjsterry wrote:

Shortfall wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Well said:
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/02/if-children-want-to-protest-against-climate-change-why-not-do-it-at-the-weekend/

Or do it next week when its the half term hols.

+1
I live near a school. If kids want to help the environment they could get their fat, lazy little @rses out of their mums massive 4x4s and walk or cycle to school instead. Those who do walk and claim to be concerned about the planet might start by not dropping mountains of litter and fast food cartons on the pavements around the school. As Jordan Peterson was apt to say, set your own house in perfect order before you criticise the world.

That idea is from the New Testament, not a Canadian YouTuber. Shall we apply the principle to May's comment about wasting time, too?

Not a fan of his then I take it RJS?

Stevo_666

rjsterry wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Aaahahaha

Not sure either of you know what the students mean by a ‘strike’ then?

Make that three of us - what do they mean?

Well it's a good job that sneering at children reduces CO2 emissions. We can all say we've done our bit.

I'd say the bleeding obvious conclusion is that children are disgusted at the grindingly slow pace of action on the matter. More specifically when pollution around schools is bad enough that they feel the need to fit air filters to the classrooms, and a government has to be repeatedly taken to court by its own citizens in order to make it abide by its own legislation, what would you suggest children do? Shrug their shoulders and assume that their 'elders' have it all in hand?

How about protesting outside of schools hours and not damaging their education?

Anyhow I've done my bit. My kid is learning to drive and I bought her a 1l VW Polo, a car so short on power and grindingly slow that I wouldn't fancy its chances against a fully laden milk float. I might have to wear a disguise if I ever have to drive it myself

rjsterry

Shortfall wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Shortfall wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Well said:
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/02/if-children-want-to-protest-against-climate-change-why-not-do-it-at-the-weekend/

Or do it next week when its the half term hols.

+1
I live near a school. If kids want to help the environment they could get their fat, lazy little @rses out of their mums massive 4x4s and walk or cycle to school instead. Those who do walk and claim to be concerned about the planet might start by not dropping mountains of litter and fast food cartons on the pavements around the school. As Jordan Peterson was apt to say, set your own house in perfect order before you criticise the world.

That idea is from the New Testament, not a Canadian YouTuber. Shall we apply the principle to May's comment about wasting time, too?

Not a fan of his then I take it RJS?

No. He obviously says some things that are comforting to a certain demographic, and has capitalised on that, but I find the idea that he is a modern sage with startling new insights to be a massive stretch.

rjsterry

Stevo 666 wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Aaahahaha

Not sure either of you know what the students mean by a ‘strike’ then?

Make that three of us - what do they mean?

Well it's a good job that sneering at children reduces CO2 emissions. We can all say we've done our bit.

I'd say the bleeding obvious conclusion is that children are disgusted at the grindingly slow pace of action on the matter. More specifically when pollution around schools is bad enough that they feel the need to fit air filters to the classrooms, and a government has to be repeatedly taken to court by its own citizens in order to make it abide by its own legislation, what would you suggest children do? Shrug their shoulders and assume that their 'elders' have it all in hand?

How about protesting outside of schools hours and not damaging their education?

Anyhow I've done my bit. My kid is learning to drive and I bought her a 1l VW Polo, a car so short on power and grindingly slow that I wouldn't fancy its chances against a fully laden milk float. I might have to wear a disguise if I ever have to drive it myself

I won't tell a soul. 8)

Sure, they could have done it next week, but doing it on a school day does make a bit more of a point. I do find the 'every hour counts' a bit much when teachers are apparently incapable of fitting their CPD around teaching time and shut the school at the slightest hint of bad weather. Not to mention the end of term film watching.

rick_chasey

Stevo 666 wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Aaahahaha

Not sure either of you know what the students mean by a ‘strike’ then?

Make that three of us - what do they mean?

Well it's a good job that sneering at children reduces CO2 emissions. We can all say we've done our bit.

I'd say the bleeding obvious conclusion is that children are disgusted at the grindingly slow pace of action on the matter. More specifically when pollution around schools is bad enough that they feel the need to fit air filters to the classrooms, and a government has to be repeatedly taken to court by its own citizens in order to make it abide by its own legislation, what would you suggest children do? Shrug their shoulders and assume that their 'elders' have it all in hand?

How about protesting outside of schools hours and not damaging their education?

You know that’s the point they’re making, right?

That they feel it’s so important to their future it trumps a day learning for their future?

Stevo_666

rjsterry wrote:

I won't tell a soul. 8)

Sure, they could have done it next week, but doing it on a school day does make a bit more of a point. I do find the 'every hour counts' a bit much when teachers are apparently incapable of fitting their CPD around teaching time and shut the school at the slightest hint of bad weather. Not to mention the end of term film watching.

Teachers/schools are not blameless here but why make it worse for themselves by protesting on a school day when there are plenty of weekend and half term options?

Also guess who supported them in damaging their own education :roll:
https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/1096358314743685120

tailwindhome

The Friday before half term is a pivotal day in a child's education.
Who knew?

Stevo_666

TailWindHome wrote:

The Friday before half term is a pivotal day in a child's education.
Who knew?

More important than today or the next week

shortfall

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Surrey Commuter wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

Aaahahaha

Not sure either of you know what the students mean by a ‘strike’ then?

Make that three of us - what do they mean?

Well it's a good job that sneering at children reduces CO2 emissions. We can all say we've done our bit.

I'd say the bleeding obvious conclusion is that children are disgusted at the grindingly slow pace of action on the matter. More specifically when pollution around schools is bad enough that they feel the need to fit air filters to the classrooms, and a government has to be repeatedly taken to court by its own citizens in order to make it abide by its own legislation, what would you suggest children do? Shrug their shoulders and assume that their 'elders' have it all in hand?

How about protesting outside of schools hours and not damaging their education?

You know that’s the point they’re making, right?

That they feel it’s so important to their future it trumps a day learning for their future?

Maybe for some of them. But I bet there's a large proportion of them who get driven to and from school everyday when they could easily walk or cycle. I bet there's a lot of them who spend all their pocket money in fast food outlets and then throw the containers in the street. I bet there's a lot of them who don't give 2 f.cks about the climate but have jumped on this as either a way to annoy their teachers and parents or get a free day off school.