Road tubeless tyres, where and how much?

cycleclinic

lucky you when a tubeless tyre goes on by hand for me I know it wont inflate. it is very tyre rim combo dependent.

ugo.santalucia

thecycleclinic wrote:

lucky you when a tubeless tyre goes on by hand for me I know it wont inflate. it is very tyre rim combo dependent.

It does with the airshot normally, especially if you remove the valve top

g00se

ugo.santalucia wrote:

thecycleclinic wrote:

lucky you when a tubeless tyre goes on by hand for me I know it wont inflate. it is very tyre rim combo dependent.

It does with the airshot normally, especially if you remove the valve top

THIS!

cycleclinic

That sometimes works but it seems not all tubeless tyres want to lock in place on some tubeless compatible rims or more to the point with some tubeless rims/wheels tubeless tyres cant seem to lock in place in which case the removing the valve core trick does not work.

I have tried all the tricks and sometimes you just get hassle.

Beside a airshot which I do use is a cheat. a true tubeless compatible rim and tyre should go up with a track pump alone. if it does not I class the rims are not so tubeless compatible. I have a long list of rims like that.

bigmitch41

Don't suppose you have Scwalbe pro1's and Fulcrum racing 5's combo on your "bugger to inflate" list by chance, struggling to inflate even with an air shot

cycleclinic

yes I do well IRC on fulcrum wheels, IRC's and schwables are sized in the same way. the bead wont lock in place. Also the valve hole is too big for normal valves so a layer of tubeless tape is needed on sealed rims as the valve seat wont seal against the rim. Maybe that is where your leak is.

svetty

Just tried to remount a Bontrager R3 tubeless tyre having re-rimmed the wheel. When new the tyre was a complete bas***d to mount but went up with a track pump (same with both wheels). Now after several 000 miles use and with a new rim the tyre is easier to mount - being pre-stretched - but just won't seal even with an airshot (tried valve in and out) and pre-filled with sealant. I tried inflating it with a tube inside to get one bead seated before then removing the tube after 24hrs and trying to get the remaining bead to seat - it just wasn't having any of it, the air just pisses out :evil:

After a lot of faff I've just given up and stuck a tube in it for now. I assume the other wheel will be similar when I replace the rim in a few months time. I could always just buy new tubeless tyres but these are only half worn: TBH given that I only puncture every 2-3000 miles on clinchers I'm just about ready to ditch the tubeless idea as an solution to a non-existent problem for road use.....

bobones

Svetty wrote:

Just tried to remount a Bontrager R3 tubeless tyre having re-rimmed the wheel. When new the tyre was a complete bas***d to mount but went up with a track pump (same with both wheels). Now after several 000 miles use and with a new rim the tyre is easier to mount - being pre-stretched - but just won't seal even with an airshot (tried valve in and out) and pre-filled with sealant. I tried inflating it with a tube inside to get one bead seated before then removing the tube after 24hrs and trying to get the remaining bead to seat - it just wasn't having any of it, the air just pisses out :evil:

After a lot of faff I've just given up and stuck a tube in it for now. I assume the other wheel will be similar when I replace the rim in a few months time. I could always just buy new tubeless tyres but these are only half worn: TBH given that I only puncture every 2-3000 miles on clinchers I'm just about ready to ditch the tubeless idea as an solution to a non-existent problem for road use.....

Try adding layer or two of tape.

meanredspider

Have you tried lots of soapy water?

Personally, I'm not going to bother with tubeless once the sensible opportunity to remove my S-Ones appears. I've yet to detect any meaningful benefit for all the cost and faff of fitting them.

imafatman

Quick review of the Maxxis Padrone TR 28mm....

Have done 1300km on them so far. Initially very impressive, fast rolling tyre with lots of grip, felt very confident on the road.

I thought these were bulletproof up until about 300km...Started getting a lot of punctures, some sealed, some didn't. Now the rear tyre is showing these cracks that are running the full width of the tyre. To be fair, I did get home but I did spend a long time faffing around with worms to get them to seal.

Eventually I had to put a tube inside. That lasted about 50km before I got another puncture through to the tube.

Worth noting that I am fairly heavy rider so I am riding these towards 90-100 psi. So that might be giving me more punctures?

Will be trying Schwalbe Ones next.

sloppyschleckonds

imafatman wrote:

Will be trying Schwalbe Ones next.

Prepare to be underwhelmed

cycleclinic

Ths benefits msr are real. I no longer get punctures that stop me. In fact i have not had one all year on tubeless. Punctured a tub though, that had an inner tube. More comfort, more grip but i am not using schwables. You wont catch me using contis or vittoria's again. Those tyres are a step backwards. The faff is removed by the right tyre rim combo's. It took me a while to sus it out.

Imafatman what sealant are you using. Stans by any chance if so switch to effetto mariposa, orange seal or zefal these all work better than stans. Also try carrying flexible superglue it can fix all. Manor of ills to get you home without putting a tube in. To demonstrate i have shoved a big screwdriver in a tubeless tyre and wiggled it about and then fixed it within a couple of minutes. They tyre stil holds air. Experiemnting though i did find different tyres with the same sealant did show differences in what size screw ddiver shaft hole would self seal. I have always suspected that the rubber compound in some tyres causes sealing problems.

So some of the tubeles woes people experience do seem to be tyre related.

Really i need to get one of every tubekess tyre and test them all. The concept is fine, it is the execution by some manufacturers that is the issue.

Svetty Yes more tape is needed. I have had the same issue as you with pacenti rims but not with kinlins with the same tyres. This is not something i fully understand.

imafatman

Yes was using Stan's fitted by the bike shop. I got myself some Orange Seal to try with the schwalbe one.

Thanks for rhe super glue tip, will get some in my kit asap.

I've also got myself an airshot because my track pump is rather pathetic.

Question is.... The airshot seems useless with the valve core installed and does nothing so i take the valve core out and the tyre pops into the bead very easily..... However the second I remove the pump all the air escapes and the tyre is no longer mounted.... So I'm back to square one. I've tried leaving it attached thinking the tyre will eventually decided to stay but it just falls off the bead again.

Is there some trick to this ?

cycleclinic

What rims. It seems you have one of the not so tubeless compatible rims and the same issue i pointed out earlier. More tape will help.

Co2 on a fitted tyre without sealant often gets the bead in place then drain in sealant and infalte with airshot. This is how we had to get an irc tyre onto shimano rims recently as the airshot failed.

Ill say it again. The rims for tubeless tyres by a long way are the cheapest- kinlins. There is no faff.

imafatman

DT Swiss R32 Spine DB. Supposed to be tubeless ready but looks like the tyre bead slips off the edge of the rim all to easily. To the point where if I lose pressure on the road I have no chance of reseating it and have to resort to installing a tube.

I will pick up some more tape and see if that helps the issue, thanks.

g00se

imafatman wrote:

DT Swiss R32 Spine DB. Supposed to be tubeless ready but looks like the tyre bead slips off the edge of the rim all to easily. To the point where if I lose pressure on the road I have no chance of reseating it and have to resort to installing a tube.

I will pick up some more tape and see if that helps the issue, thanks.

I have a pair of those on the cross bike. They needed a lot of extra tape to get tyres to seat properly.

imafatman

g00se wrote:

I have a pair of those on the cross bike. They needed a lot of extra tape to get tyres to seat properly.

Do you know what width rim-tape I should be using? The rims themselves are 18mm inner diameter but I have no idea what width for the tape would be best.

g00se

21 for most road rims I would think

coops1967

itboffin wrote:

I keep getting close then hear more horror stories of difficult fit and so so performance and think meh

I'd say most of the problems are due to a lot of rim/wheel manufacturers just slapping a 'tubeless ready' label on their product for marketing purposes... while doing as little as possible to truly make their product suitable for tubeless tyres. (Perhaps it's only fair to point out that apparently there aren't any standards on tubeless according to the Panaraxcere tyre website.. which is a little odd)

Try and find a complaint about setting up a tubeless tyre on a 'Stans NoTube' wheel... they design and make them FOR tubeless, not some vague 'tubeless ready' BS.

You've really got a road choice between alloy and the 'Grail' wheels, or for carbon then the 'Avion' wheels - both get great reviews.... and come in a range of prices depending on hub and weight.



My first tubeless experience was the Stans Grail wheels, which came on the new bike with tubes fitted...wtf?

changed out the tyres to Schwalbe Pro Ones...
No soapy water sprayed on the rim/tyre, no airshot inflator.
Put tyre on, plug in the Joe Blow track pump and they inflated first time, no issues. ( I'd also seen some youtube how to vids so went the way of inflate and seat first, and only then remove valve core and inject the sealant, core in & reinflate.)

Second bike changed over to DCR carbon wheels... tubeless is ok, but not nearly as good as the Stans ( for ease of installation) - I'd got hold of an airshot just in case, and needed it - highly recommended.

Now the Schwalbe Pro Ones..... I'm not a fan of the phrase but these tyres really are delicate little snowflakes - yet another puncture today - plugged it and could pump it up enough to get back to base, but have had several punctures with the Pro Ones... so will switch try a Panaracer Evo A3 that I saw in a local shoppe.

ugo.santalucia

coops1967 wrote:

itboffin wrote:

I keep getting close then hear more horror stories of difficult fit and so so performance and think meh

I'd say most of the problems are due to a lot of rim/wheel manufacturers just slapping a 'tubeless ready' label on their product for marketing purposes... while doing as little as possible to truly make their product suitable for tubeless tyres. (Perhaps it's only fair to point out that apparently there aren't any standards on tubeless according to the Panaraxcere tyre website.. which is a little odd)

Try and find a complaint about setting up a tubeless tyre on a 'Stans NoTube' wheel... they design and make them FOR tubeless, not some vague 'tubeless ready' BS.

You've really got a road choice between alloy and the 'Grail' wheels, or for carbon then the 'Avion' wheels - both get great reviews.... and come in a range of prices depending on hub and weight.



My first tubeless experience was the Stans Grail wheels, which came on the new bike with tubes fitted...wtf?

changed out the tyres to Schwalbe Pro Ones...
No soapy water sprayed on the rim/tyre, no airshot inflator.
Put tyre on, plug in the Joe Blow track pump and they inflated first time, no issues. ( I'd also seen some youtube how to vids so went the way of inflate and seat first, and only then remove valve core and inject the sealant, core in & reinflate.)

Second bike changed over to DCR carbon wheels... tubeless is ok, but not nearly as good as the Stans ( for ease of installation) - I'd got hold of an airshot just in case, and needed it - highly recommended.

Now the Schwalbe Pro Ones..... I'm not a fan of the phrase but these tyres really are delicate little snowflakes - yet another puncture today - plugged it and could pump it up enough to get back to base, but have had several punctures with the Pro Ones... so will switch try a Panaracer Evo A3 that I saw in a local shoppe.

Agree

itboffin

i'm about the only person in my club not running pro ones and none of them seem to have visits from the PF, in fact i've seen only one and that was a large sharp rock at speed that no tyre would have stood a chance.

crossed

itboffin wrote:

i'm about the only person in my club not running pro ones and none of them seem to have visits from the PF, in fact i've seen only one and that was a large sharp rock at speed that no tyre would have stood a chance.

I've got to say that I find the Pro Ones incredibly delicate.
I've managed to puncture mine on their first ride with a small piece of something I couldn't even see which managed to defeat their tubeless qualities! The Orange Seal sealant wouldn't seal the hole so ended up resorting to a worm tyre plug.
Whatever managed to puncture the tyre, I'm not sure it would have been enough to penetrate both the tyre and a tube.

This is my second bad experince with road tubeless and me second attempt with it. Both times Schwalbe tyres, Pro One and G-One have proved to be pretty delicate and neither time has the puncture sealed. I'm now back to running tubes on my road wheels as I really don't think road tubeless is up to the job.

devonboy

I ran my winter bike on 28c GP4000's but always felt mildly wary of punctures (I cycle solo daily)

Eventually after suffering 3 punctures in 5 trips I swopped to G One Speeds run tubeless and went through the rest of the winter without apparent puncture,although I must have had some as I noticed a fine spray of Orange Seal on the frame when I gave the bike a deep clean in the spring.

This summer I have swopped to the posh bike and I am running on last summers Pro Ones without problem.All I did when I swopped was to add 30ml of sealant through the valve.

Point of this is that I have had very few problems on tubeless and have real confidence in their ability to fix punctures on the go.

I cycle 4000-5000 miles a year and reckon on getting around 2500 miles out of a rear Pro One (which is similar to a GP 4000 for me)

crossed

It seems that plenty of people are having good luck with the Schwalbe tyres like devonboy but I must have just been really unlucky with mine.

devonboy

For the sake of completeness,on road I run my winter bike on 30c G One Speed/Novatec CXD wheels or off-road I use the original Specialized wheels run tubeless with a 35c G One on the front and a 33c X One on the rear.

Using the off-road setup I recently rode from Princetown to Burrator and back on the old tramway,which is rocky for long sections.Tyres were fine,rims got scratched up and my backside was sore for a week but the tyres were fine.

bobones

I have just converted to tubeless on 2 of my bikes: I have Schwalbe Pro One Evo 23mm on my Scott CR1 and Hutchinson Intensive 2 25mm on my Tifosi CK7. I am a still at the experimental stage, but so far I haven't had a puncture to deal with. I am carrying a tube, a canister of CO2 with sealant, a couple of CO2 carts, and a Genuine Innovations tubeless repair kit, which I hope will be enough to deal with any tyre issues on the road.

Both types of tyre were difficult to get on the rim, but not impossible. I had some luck getting them up with just a track pump and some soapy water, but a couple of times I had to use CO2 carts to get them to seal. Both seem to be holding air very well, much like a normal tyre with a butyl tube.

I picked up the Hutchinson tyres from PX when they had them for £19.99 each. They seem to be quite tough and give a pleasant enough ride, but they are much narrower than their nominal size: more like 22 - 23mm than 25.

I swithered between the Pro Ones and IRC Roadlites, but opted for the Ones primarily because they were a bit cheaper, and had good reviews elsewhere, if not in this thread. I used to run Schwalbe Ultremos, which never lasted beyond 1.5k miles and always seemed to pick up cuts and bulges. I'll give these Pro Ones one chance to impress, but I have my doubts. Ride quality wise, I was underwhelmed running them at 80psi, but they seemed to be a lot nicer and felt quicker at 90psi.

I've got Stans sealant in the Pro Ones and Decathlon's own brand in the Hutch's and I am kind of hoping for a wave of punctures just to see how they cope.

ugo.santalucia

bobones wrote:

I swithered between the Pro Ones and IRC Roadlites, but opted for the Ones primarily because they were a bit cheaper, and had good reviews elsewhere, if not in this thread. .

Mistake!

singleton

I've run 25mm Pro ones on both my summer and winter bikes - one fairy visit on a cold night in Feb - but apart from that I've not had any issues.

ddraver

So, after 2 rides* the front tyre now has a deep cut - to the casing - across the whole width of the tyre making it only good for the bin. Took it off and put the old Schwalbe Pro1 back on which went on easily and up with a track pump first time.

I think this is the end of me using Hutchinson Tyres...I return to waiting for Schwalbe to make the "Durano Tubeless"

(*Cycling doesnt do much to rehabilitate my twinged knee so I ve been walking instead)

fat_tail

ddraver wrote:

So, after 2 rides* the front tyre now has a deep cut - to the casing - across the whole width of the tyre making it only good for the bin. Took it off and put the old Schwalbe Pro1 back on which went on easily and up with a track pump first time.

I think this is the end of me using Hutchinson Tyres...I return to waiting for Schwalbe to make the "Durano Tubeless"

(*Cycling doesnt do much to rehabilitate my twinged knee so I ve been walking instead)

which Hutchinson tyres were these ? I had a fantastic experience with the intensive and have "upgraded" to Sector 28s...