Road tubeless tyres, where and how much?
Comments
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Interesting that Cycle Clinic I was about to come on here and ask if the glues in patch kits wont take when either damp, sealant present or something to do with the type of rubber on the inside of the Tyre. Like I mentioned earlier the best kit I had was with superglue. Found out it was the Weldite Tubeless inside Tyre kit. But will look out for a rubber supper glue and just use any patch?
I patched the rear but did struggle with cement and then used used superglue with a skabz patch it was much easier than the normal cements. I think part of it is the inside is not smooth. Holding thus far, will need to patch the front soon.0 -
Patches should be applied when the tyre is dry. vulcanising rubber glue only works on dry grease free surfaces. rubber glue should be used for patches if you want it to be long term fix. use super glue at the side of the road and your fingers are like to become part of the tyre. I applied the super glue on a tyre with sealant in it. Taking a tyre of at the side of the road to apply a patch. I'd rather walk. The super glue I mentioned in conjuction with a worm if needed will seal holes that wont seal themselves. Even sidewall cuts can be fixed to get you home unless they are big in which case you are walking. Patches are best applied when the tyre has been removed cleaned up and dried. that way it becomes permenant.
Patches and rubber glue work on tyres with a butyl or latex lining - hutchinson sector 28 tyres dont have this in fact I think IRC are one of the few to do this. This is why your patch wont stick but I have mentioned this before. Many tubeless tyres are just not repairable and rely on the sealant to plug holes.
Why make this more complicated.
For me I would not take a tyre of at the side of the road full stop. Pointless as I dont carry a spare tube anymore. I have worms, flexible super glue from loctite and CO2 (plus a pump). The only holes I wont be able to fix are the big one that a tube would blowout on anyway. That sort of hole is so unlikely I can take the tiny risk.
If I want to fix a tyre (and I do) I will do it at the shop or at home where it warm and dry. The inability to patch most tyres properly is one reason why I dont like most tubeless tyres. I am tight fisted and like wearing things out.
Oh did 87 miles on that patched tyre with the sidewall cut. crashed through a few potholes deliberatley just to make sure it holds, it did. fantastic glue.http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.0 -
There you go never knew that about patches and standard glues.
Another puncture on the back went down overnight different place more to the side and again looks like a slit rather than straight hole. Filled to about 75psi let it seal and rode in to work 15 odd miles it was okay but suspect it will go down. Same as I have had before reliable up to 1200-1500 miles and then regular punctures but it makes no sense really because they don't look worn other than cut a bit but no where near the cuts on a Schwalbe one at those miles, weird or just bad luck. Even changed my route. Would potholes cause a slit like a pinch flat for tubeless?
I think I know why the S-Ones were so reliable and that is lower, much lower pressures happily ride those @ 40psi even pumped no more than 55-60psi. @40spsi on 25mm and it starts to bottom out.
Going to repair these two and then only inflate to 70psi see if that makes any difference.0 -
Confession time, I am taking off the Hutchinson All Season and putting on some Sector 28mm tonight. I will clean up the insides of All Season and actually repair them properly and give them another go in the summer, but at the moment they appear unusable which is a shame because they rode quite nice. All the punctures have started @ 1100 miles on a rear tyre that doesn't look worn and they are more like cuts than a straight forward hole hence the sealant and pressure they won't seal properly, and I am not getting time at night to repair them properly and just riding @50psi hoping they don't go down which is irritating!
They get 3 stars from Hutchinson for Puncture protection and Sector 5, I live in hope!
Maybe if I had read reviews rather than assume All Season was a tubeless kind of version of Conti 4 Season :-(
Taken from this review, less puncture resistance than their high performance race tubeless WTF
http://www.bicyclerollingresistance.com ... eason-2017
While performance in the rolling resistance is excellent, performance in the puncture resistance test, on the other hand, is not that spectacular. With a tread puncture resistance score of just 10 points, the All Season comes in at 1 point less than the Fusion 5 Performance. Because both the Performance and All Season use the same Kevlar anti-puncture layer, I suspect it scores worse in the puncture test because of the much softer all weather rubber which is easier to penetrate.
The low puncture score might not be a big problem for the tubeless version of this tire as the tubeless sealant might be able to seal most small holes. The non-tubeless version doesn't have this advantage and should score close to the same as the tubeless version. When compared to the Continental Grand Prix 4 Season which uses a double layer of Vectran breaker and scored 17 points in our test, puncture resistance of the Fusion 5 All Season is much worse. A double layer of Kevlar on the All Season version of this tire might have been a good idea as puncture resistance is important for an all season tire.0 -
I've done a lot of miles on my Sector with no trouble at all. Couple of punctures that did seal and that's about it. It is fair to say since I moved to the Midlands cuts are much much rarer compared to riding in Surrey or the other Home countiesleft the forum March 20230
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Yup I am in Surrey, the last cut puncture Monday night took a lump of tyre with it and when I got home there was a worm like bit of latex sealant with mud on it and stopped leaking air at 45-50psi. the Bonty TLR sealant is definitely an upgrade on Stans Standard a sealantugo.santalucia wrote:I've done a lot of miles on my Sector with no trouble at all. Couple of punctures that did seal and that's about it. It is fair to say since I moved to the Midlands cuts are much much rarer compared to riding in Surrey or the other Home counties
Putting the Sectors on today at work going to run @ 70-75psi too much too little what are you running at? 171lbs despite my user name!0 -
I have to say that my patience is wearing a bit thin with Tubeless Tyres. This year I have spent more or tyres and bits than I did in the previous 3 or 4. I had an IRC RBCC tyre suffer a sidewall blowout after just 950 miles and I have just had a puncture that wouldn't seal on the Fusion 5 All Weather after just 200 miles. Then when I've taken that tyre off to shove in a tube for now I have noticed several cuts in the tread suggesting that it is not all that durable (in contrast the IRC didn't have a single cut on the tread which makes the sidewall blow out even more annoying).
So I'm in 2 minds as to whether I should continue bothering with them.0 -
As you can see pretty much my experience with the All Season. Hoping the Sector 28mm give me more of a reliable experience. From that review the compound is said to be soft, I assume for grip but all my punctures were not that simple on the them and were cuts with a hole and bits of missing rubber the sealant would hold it once it had deflated enough to close the cut a bit. Re inflate and it leaked out.stevie63 wrote:I have to say that my patience is wearing a bit thin with Tubeless Tyres. This year I have spent more or tyres and bits than I did in the previous 3 or 4. I had an IRC RBCC tyre suffer a sidewall blowout after just 950 miles and I have just had a puncture that wouldn't seal on the Fusion 5 All Weather after just 200 miles. Then when I've taken that tyre off to shove in a tube for now I have noticed several cuts in the tread suggesting that it is not all that durable (in contrast the IRC didn't have a single cut on the tread which makes the sidewall blow out even more annoying).
So I'm in 2 minds as to whether I should continue bothering with them.
I have said it before but someone needs to come out with a Durano\Gatorskin\4Season type of 25mm tyre tubeless and not rely on sealant to battle it out. The All Season labelling is a bit misleading, less puncture resistant than a Schwalbe One according to that site.0 -
Fat-Boy-Roubaix wrote:
Yup I am in Surrey, the last cut puncture Monday night took a lump of tyre with it and when I got home there was a worm like bit of latex sealant with mud on it and stopped leaking air at 45-50psi. the Bonty TLR sealant is definitely an upgrade on Stans Standard a sealantugo.santalucia wrote:I've done a lot of miles on my Sector with no trouble at all. Couple of punctures that did seal and that's about it. It is fair to say since I moved to the Midlands cuts are much much rarer compared to riding in Surrey or the other Home counties
Putting the Sectors on today at work going to run @ 70-75psi too much too little what are you running at? 171lbs despite my user name!
80-85 PSI, 72 Kg, whatever it is in poundsleft the forum March 20230 -
Thanks 10ilb heavier than you but will run @ 75-80.
One the bike they look better than the balloon appearance of the 30mm S-One which is a bonus! Not ridden them yet0 -
Fat-Boy-Roubaix wrote:I have said it before but someone needs to come out with a Durano\Gatorskin\4Season type of 25mm tyre tubeless and not rely on sealant to battle it out.
whats the closest GP4 Season type tyre from the current crop then? I was about to go for the all seasons, but your review has torpedoed that idea! Leaning towards the sectors now...0 -
All tyres can puncture. If you had been using tubed tyres stevie63 you would have punctured as well. With your fusions use the loctite superglue i have mentioned to fix the tyre. You where unlucky with the irc rbcc yre but i had a similar sidewall cut on mine but after 5000km (the rear is only half worn) but i have fixed it with that loctite rubber filled superglue (tescos sell it for £1.50). The tyre holds air just fine and no bulges. If the cut was bigger i could have reinforced the inside with a velox tubeless tyre patch and superglued the outside. So long as there are no bulges there is no problem. You cannot expect tubeless tyres to never puncture but if you follow my repair advice you should get home with minium faff unless you are really unlucky.
Sorry FBR sealant is required for the tyre to seal. Without it you cannot guarantee an air tight seal. Also gator skins even the hardshell where the most puncture prone tyres i have used after the gp4 seasons for winter use. Tried many of these tyres and killed every one in under 1000 miles with big holes or slashes. So if you are killing tubeless tyres you should be killing off the tyres you mention. The irc fusion x guard is the only tubeless tyre is only one (maybe there is another) with a puncture protection belt. Maybe that wil help.
I am going to repeat myself. Your tubeless road side repair kit should include genuine innovations tyres worms, loctite superglue with rubber (it comes in packets of three small tubes) co2 and maybe a small 2oz bottle of stans with valve core remover. That packs up into one back pocket.
If you puncture and the tyre goes down to 40 or 50 psi dont bother stopping just finish your ride. Maybe add air if you are bothered.
When at home or you loose so much air or all air in the tyre that you have to stop you get the superglue out and smear it over the hole that wont seal. For big holes a tyre worm and superglue is best. Let the glue dry it will then inflate with co2 as co2 helps the sealant plug the hole somehow. If you have lost alot of sealant adding more will help. If you have a slash then bad luck a tyre boot and tube may help but the tube is not the first resort, it is the last of last resorts.
If the worm and glue cant hold air at the pressure you want then if your tyre has a butyl or latex lining then patch it. If it does not have this kind of lining try a patch but getting them to hold is more tricky maybe supeglue again.
One problem i had this week with a leaky (over a couple of hours when riding) rear tyre i put down to the side wall hole leaking, it was n't. When i pulled the tyre off i found little sealant. No idea where it all went but once i filled the tyre up again all is well. Again not tyres fault, all mine that one. It turns out the velocity aileron is less tubeless compatible than advertised.
99% of the tubeless problems in this thread are user error. Tubeless tyres are a learning curve. You will only learn by having the problems to fix.http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.0 -
My comment about sealant is that I feel tubeless is trying to be all things to all men and sacrificing puncture protection for weight + sealant = no more than a standard clincher performance tyre with inner tube in weight. Nearly every review of tubeless has this bizarre equation so it must influence manufacturers.
I persist with tubeless mainly because I had a massive off when I had a blowout and was on rim mid corner, I hope a tubeless will give me a bit more time if it happened again anyway that was my route to tubeless. On my Old Commuter I found 4Season and Gators pretty reliable and usually got 2-3k out of a rear in winter and more out of a front. Conti GP4000 I was knocking those out in the summer in 1-1.5k miles was reasonably happy for the different feel to longevity/cost ratio.
I have done 15k miles over 2-3 years on Hutchinson Atom 23mm, Hutch Intensive 23mm, Panaracer D 23mm, All Season 25mm, Schwalbe One 25/23mm(ver 1 & 2) Schwalbe S-One 30mm.
The thing I have found and this is on every single 23-25mm Tubeless tyre so far is that they become unreliable at about 12-1500 miles. The only one that didn't was the 30mm S-One but the penalty for that was a dull feeling bike. When I say unreliable it is puncturing, sealing letting out air overnight refill and repeat. I had only failed to get going twice but both were rectified by tubing them.
The problem I have with your temp roadside fixes is that they do not feel like permanent fixes. Not tried the worms to be fair but still feels like a temp fix. Rubber superglue seems a good roadside call but again has not got longevity as surely just riding it normally will wear off the glue?
Straight forward holes with a bit of effort can be sorted with a patch but most of my binned tyres still bulged. The problem with that for me is riding most days, often not being home until early evening the last thing I feel like doing is stripping off a tyre cleaning it up and faffing around patching it so I normally order a new tyre(s) thinking I will stick those on and repair the other one...
I was perusing your site yesterday having not looked for a while and I have already noted the IRC Fusion X Guard and that is most definitely on my list. But @ £59 each they will have to be up to lasting twice as long as all of the above to be cost effective.
Thank for you input by the way!0 -
Not found it yet see my reply above, Trying Sectors. The most reliable was the S-One but only available in 30mm but comes up bigger than that on the wheel. I would give the All Season a wide berth for winter high miles two people on here with the same result.cookiemonster wrote:Fat-Boy-Roubaix wrote:I have said it before but someone needs to come out with a Durano\Gatorskin\4Season type of 25mm tyre tubeless and not rely on sealant to battle it out.
whats the closest GP4 Season type tyre from the current crop then? I was about to go for the all seasons, but your review has torpedoed that idea! Leaning towards the sectors now...0 -
What tyres are you actually using fbr. I feel the same about clicnhers, there is only one that lasted more than 1500 miles for me the challange strada bianca.
How come i have 5000km on my rbcc tyres. I weigh 86 to 87kg kitted up and use a 16kg bike with alot of weight over the rear wheel to give you an idea.
Also unless you have tried my fixes how would you know they dont work long term? If superglue i suggest can fix a side wall cut it is pretty good stuff. I also think you have been using all the tyres that i think are so so. But you have finally picked a tyre that is pretty good.
Cookie monster a tubeless tyre like the 4 seasons. The 4 seasons is one of the most unreliable clinchers i have every tried. One set lasted 20 miles before i had to bin them due to big holes several sets lasted no more than 500 to 600 miles so based on that go with the schwable one becuase those tyres also lasted me 500 to 600 miles.http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.0 -
Might be a daft question, but here goes.
If I convert to tubeless, should I remove the existing rim tape, before adding the Stan's tape?
Oh, and, what length valves for Archetype rims - 35mm or 44mm?
Ta muchly0 -
Whatever tape you have, ditch it, you will save yourself a lot of frustration. If in doubt always go for the longer valve.Andy9964 wrote:Might be a daft question, but here goes.
If I convert to tubeless, should I remove the existing rim tape, before adding the Stan's tape?
Oh, and, what length valves for Archetype rims - 35mm or 44mm?
Ta muchly0 -
thecycleclinic wrote:What tyres are you actually using fbr. I feel the same about clicnhers, there is only one that lasted more than 1500 miles for me the challange strada bianca.
How come i have 5000km on my rbcc tyres. I weigh 86 to 87kg kitted up and use a 16kg bike with alot of weight over the rear wheel to give you an idea.
Also unless you have tried my fixes how would you know they dont work long term? If superglue i suggest can fix a side wall cut it is pretty good stuff. I also think you have been using all the tyres that i think are so so. But you have finally picked a tyre that is pretty good.
Cookie monster a tubeless tyre like the 4 seasons. The 4 seasons is one of the most unreliable clinchers i have every tried. One set lasted 20 miles before i had to bin them due to big holes several sets lasted no more than 500 to 600 miles so based on that go with the schwable one becuase those tyres also lasted me 500 to 600 miles.
Is this the superglue you're referring to?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/d/evq/Loctite-1885734-Super-Glue-Mini-Trio-Power/B00UTYAIHM/ref=pd_lpo_60_tr_t_3?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=MBZYMZF3HV296QWQ8T12'Hello to Jason Isaacs'0 -
Thanks, pretty much my own thinking, just wanted some confirmationtincaman wrote:
Whatever tape you have, ditch it, you will save yourself a lot of frustration. If in doubt always go for the longer valve.Andy9964 wrote:Might be a daft question, but here goes.
If I convert to tubeless, should I remove the existing rim tape, before adding the Stan's tape?
Oh, and, what length valves for Archetype rims - 35mm or 44mm?
Ta muchly0 -
Have done about 300 miles on my All Seasons now. Inspected them yesterday and they were full of cuts - pulled about half a dozen pieces of glass put of them. One cut on the rear tyre was particularly bad but looks like the sealant did it's job.
No flats as yet (gave my spare tube to someone by the side of the road who'd run out of tubes yesterday) but it does seem like the compound is softer than you'd expect and doesn't inspire confidence for the future. They ride well enough though and don't seem to be showing any wear yet. Still, gonna keep an eye out for deals on Sectors...0 -
Yes that th glue is was refering to.http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.0
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Despite what I said before, and with some time on my hands I have decided to run my rear Revo tubeless. As an experiment I left the rim tape on as it looked well placed and sealed all the way around, right to the edges of the rim. Chucked on a Randonneuer Pro 32mm, which is not a tubeless tyre but has been known to be mounted tubeless with success. Soaped all the way around, quick blast from the Airshot and it popped on the rim perfectly. I wasn't expecting it to be airtight completely without any sealant in and it wasn't. Popped 80ml of sealant in, spread it around and the air loss has reduced. Will give it 24hrs and see how well it has sealed thenAndy9964 wrote:
Thanks, pretty much my own thinking, just wanted some confirmationtincaman wrote:
Whatever tape you have, ditch it, you will save yourself a lot of frustration. If in doubt always go for the longer valve.Andy9964 wrote:Might be a daft question, but here goes.
If I convert to tubeless, should I remove the existing rim tape, before adding the Stan's tape?
Oh, and, what length valves for Archetype rims - 35mm or 44mm?
Ta muchly0 -
Not sure if this thread is the right place to ask but has anyone used Hutchinson Sectors (28mm) on a Cannondale SuperSix Evo (2015 model) or am I wasting my time in terms of clearance? I could buy them and find out, but that's an expensive experiment if they defo won't fit!
Maybe for next winter I am thinking of a nicer/plusher/wider tyre than the 25mm Intensives I currently had (that many seem to hate but I've had no probs with).
Edit: FWIW the rims are Velocity A230 -
I would fit a narrower tyre as if they do fot the clearance will be tight. You should have short drop brakes and 27 to 28mm tyre is normally a close fit.http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.0
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I fitted my Sector 28s tonight. They went on much easier than the Schwalbe Ones, and inflated with the track pump rather than the homemade air shot I had to use with the Ones.
Not sure when I will get to ride due to the ice over the next while, but hopefully they will hold up better to the winter conditions.
Oh, and I used the Park TL4.2C levers, which worked very well.0 -
Haven't ridden this yet, but it seems to have sealed OK. From 60psi it drops to 50 overnight which is good enough to ride on, should improve over timetincaman wrote:
Despite what I said before, and with some time on my hands I have decided to run my rear Revo tubeless. As an experiment I left the rim tape on as it looked well placed and sealed all the way around, right to the edges of the rim. Chucked on a Randonneuer Pro 32mm, which is not a tubeless tyre but has been known to be mounted tubeless with success. Soaped all the way around, quick blast from the Airshot and it popped on the rim perfectly. I wasn't expecting it to be airtight completely without any sealant in and it wasn't. Popped 80ml of sealant in, spread it around and the air loss has reduced. Will give it 24hrs and see how well it has sealed thenAndy9964 wrote:
Thanks, pretty much my own thinking, just wanted some confirmationtincaman wrote:
Whatever tape you have, ditch it, you will save yourself a lot of frustration. If in doubt always go for the longer valve.Andy9964 wrote:Might be a daft question, but here goes.
If I convert to tubeless, should I remove the existing rim tape, before adding the Stan's tape?
Oh, and, what length valves for Archetype rims - 35mm or 44mm?
Ta muchly0 -
how easy a tyre goes on and how easy it is to inflate has as much to do with the rim as the tyre. As the tyre bead will stretch if it is too easy to mount you will need compressed air if you take the tyre off for some reason and remount.
If the schwable which was tighter did not inflate without compressed air then the bead might not have been sitting in the well properly. I have found this before. However you have found the reason why I stopped using the schwable tubeless tyres. They just dont last well enough.http://www.thecycleclinic.co.uk -wheel building and other stuff.0 -
Quite honestly, I know what I'm doing, don't just assume everyone is useless at this.0
