Road tubeless tyres, where and how much?

thegibdog

Considering returning to tubeless now I've switched my Ultegra wheels to the winter bike. Is there any consensus on a durable 25mm tubeless tyre for crappy roads?

Fat-Boy-Roubaix

thegibdog wrote:

Considering returning to tubeless now I've switched my Ultegra wheels to the winter bike. Is there any consensus on a durable 25mm tubeless tyre for crappy roads?

I am getting on ok with Hutchinson Fusion 5 All Season 25mm. But to be honest I think other than Schwalbe Ones being fast to cut up and really low mileage in my experience. All the other in 23/25mm are much of muchness that I have tried so just going to buy based on the best deal and expect to get 1800-2500 miles from them.

Wiggle had the Hutchinson @ £30 but are O/S I bought 3 as they were more or less half price. Leaves me with a spare one to swap at night whilst I repair a slow puncture that won't seal up. Not had to do the at yet.

Fat-Boy-Roubaix

Has anyone else considered carrying a tyre and a small bottle of sealant with them rather than repairing or inner tubing at the roadside? Not much extra weight to lug around. Just with the winter arriving not sure I fancy trying to patch a tyre on dark wet and cold evening ride home

staffo

Fat-Boy-Roubaix wrote:

Has anyone else considered carrying a tyre and a small bottle of sealant with them rather than repairing or inner tubing at the roadside? Not much extra weight to lug around. Just with the winter arriving not sure I fancy trying to patch a tyre on dark wet and cold evening ride home

How would you inflate the spare tyre?

fat_tail

staffo wrote:

Fat-Boy-Roubaix wrote:

Has anyone else considered carrying a tyre and a small bottle of sealant with them rather than repairing or inner tubing at the roadside? Not much extra weight to lug around. Just with the winter arriving not sure I fancy trying to patch a tyre on dark wet and cold evening ride home

How would you inflate the spare tyre?

CO2 canister.

Sounds like a good idea

Fat-Boy-Roubaix

fat_tail wrote:

staffo wrote:

Fat-Boy-Roubaix wrote:

Has anyone else considered carrying a tyre and a small bottle of sealant with them rather than repairing or inner tubing at the roadside? Not much extra weight to lug around. Just with the winter arriving not sure I fancy trying to patch a tyre on dark wet and cold evening ride home

How would you inflate the spare tyre?

CO2 canister.

Sounds like a good idea

Yeah was going for the Co2 the more I think about it apart from the expense of keeping one in stock seems a reasonable idea. These Hutchinson 25mm I get on by hand. The only problem I can see is getting the newly patched one folded to carry on taking it as a spare. I assume it would be doable with an elastic band.

It has happened so rarely but it would be major pain on winter evening ride home. I see Hutchinson do a small bottle of sealant that has the applicator built in to the top, might order that.

fat_tail

Fat-Boy-Roubaix wrote:

fat_tail wrote:

staffo wrote:

Fat-Boy-Roubaix wrote:

Has anyone else considered carrying a tyre and a small bottle of sealant with them rather than repairing or inner tubing at the roadside? Not much extra weight to lug around. Just with the winter arriving not sure I fancy trying to patch a tyre on dark wet and cold evening ride home

How would you inflate the spare tyre?

CO2 canister.

Sounds like a good idea

Yeah was going for the Co2 the more I think about it apart from the expense of keeping one in stock seems a reasonable idea. These Hutchinson 25mm I get on by hand. The only problem I can see is getting the newly patched one folded to carry on taking it as a spare. I assume it would be doable with an elastic band.

It has happened so rarely but it would be major pain on winter evening ride home. I see Hutchinson do a small bottle of sealant that has the applicator built in to the top, might order that.

I carry 3 co2 canisters plus a small pump plus many anchovies plus a spare inner ... I don't carry sealant yet ! But I may have to if I start carrying a spare tyre. I have just ordered another Hutchinson Intensive II and once it is on I will consider using one of the tyres that are coming off as a spare. The things that one does for love of a nice ride.

thegibdog

Fat-Boy-Roubaix wrote:

thegibdog wrote:

Considering returning to tubeless now I've switched my Ultegra wheels to the winter bike. Is there any consensus on a durable 25mm tubeless tyre for crappy roads?

I am getting on ok with Hutchinson Fusion 5 All Season 25mm. But to be honest I think other than Schwalbe Ones being fast to cut up and really low mileage in my experience. All the other in 23/25mm are much of muchness that I have tried so just going to buy based on the best deal and expect to get 1800-2500 miles from them.

Wiggle had the Hutchinson @ £30 but are O/S I bought 3 as they were more or less half price. Leaves me with a spare one to swap at night whilst I repair a slow puncture that won't seal up. Not had to do the at yet.

Thanks. I have put a stock alert on the All Seasons at Wiggle, it'll be interesting to see if they're the same price when (if!) they're back in.

Tempted to try the Sector 28s and see if they'd squeeze under my guards. I've fit '25mm' (27mm really) Pro 4s ok, so if the Sectors come up true to size on a standard rim they could well fit.

Fat-Boy-Roubaix

Ha, knew I was tempting fate punctured too big to seal on the back half way home last night dark and damp but not that cold. So much sealant around plus darkness couldn't 100% know I was repairing the right knick\hole! Used my last CO2 and it was still leaking air, I was just about to give up and call for a lift than I remembered I had been out with my Daughter a couple of weeks ago and I might still have a tube in the depths of my rucksack, I did! Result! Went in to the 25mm on the ZTR grails a piece of piss hand pumped and away I went. Almost as easy as clincher tube swap.

Not sure I would really want to do a full tyre change at the roadside so much gunky sealant on the old tyre.

So I am sorted for winter on this bike. Couldn't rely on a tube on thinner rims and 23mm tyres on the summer bike though.

I think the moral of the story is Tubeless is really viable and easy if punctured on a wider rim and 25mm+ tyres

ugo.santalucia

Fat-Boy-Roubaix wrote:

I think the moral of the story is Tubeless is really viable and easy if punctured on a wider rim and 25mm+ tyres

Indeed.

I really don't see the point in 23mm tubeless tyres. They are going to be a struggle to fit, they will require high pressure, which is not ideal for the sealing process... by the time the hole is sealed (typically 60 PSI), the pressure is too low to ride... moreover, if you need to fit an inner tube, they might be too tight to accomodate it

oldbazza

Fat-Boy-Roubaix wrote:

Ha, knew I was tempting fate punctured too big to seal on the back half way home last night dark and damp but not that cold. So much sealant around plus darkness couldn't 100% know I was repairing the right knick\hole! Used my last CO2 and it was still leaking air, I was just about to give up and call for a lift than I remembered I had been out with my Daughter a couple of weeks ago and I might still have a tube in the depths of my rucksack, I did! Result! Went in to the 25mm on the ZTR grails a piece of wee-wee hand pumped and away I went. Almost as easy as clincher tube swap.

Not sure I would really want to do a full tyre change at the roadside so much gunky sealant on the old tyre.

So I am sorted for winter on this bike. Couldn't rely on a tube on thinner rims and 23mm tyres on the summer bike though.

I think the moral of the story is Tubeless is really viable and easy if punctured on a wider rim and 25mm+ tyres

Had to do this with the rear S-one on the XLS last Thursday;thought about doing a repair but it started raining so just bunged a tube in,off and away in a few minutes in the end.

Hoped the sealant would have worked but dunno if having to stop at a red just after it went hindered the sealing process;was a glass gash though so may not have sealed anyway,the perils of wet Cambridge roads I guess.

tiberiustrettin

max1234 wrote:

They're in stock at Bike24
http://www.bike24.com/1.php?content=8;s ... duct=62612

Thanks a lots.

Fat-Boy-Roubaix

ugo.santalucia wrote:

Fat-Boy-Roubaix wrote:

I think the moral of the story is Tubeless is really viable and easy if punctured on a wider rim and 25mm+ tyres

Indeed.

I really don't see the point in 23mm tubeless tyres. They are going to be a struggle to fit, they will require high pressure, which is not ideal for the sealing process... by the time the hole is sealed (typically 60 PSI), the pressure is too low to ride... moreover, if you need to fit an inner tube, they might be too tight to accomodate it

100% convinced now 23mm is not that viable, cannot get anything wider on my other bike though.

The only issue I have with the Grails and 25/28/30mm tyres is I cannot inflate them without Co2. I think someone suggested up thread to put more tape on the rim, is that literally just winding more tape down the centre? quoted you but could have been anyone.

g00se

From my experience, yes, more tape. If it's not nearly impossible to get the tyres on, try a couple more revolutions of full width tape.

thegibdog

thegibdog wrote:

Fat-Boy-Roubaix wrote:

Wiggle had the Hutchinson @ £30 but are O/S I bought 3 as they were more or less half price. Leaves me with a spare one to swap at night whilst I repair a slow puncture that won't seal up. Not had to do the at yet.

Thanks. I have put a stock alert on the All Seasons at Wiggle, it'll be interesting to see if they're the same price when (if!) they're back in.

Got sent an email this afternoon saying that they were back in stock. Just checked now and they're out of stock again!

Fat-Boy-Roubaix

thegibdog wrote:

thegibdog wrote:

Fat-Boy-Roubaix wrote:

Wiggle had the Hutchinson @ £30 but are O/S I bought 3 as they were more or less half price. Leaves me with a spare one to swap at night whilst I repair a slow puncture that won't seal up. Not had to do the at yet.

Thanks. I have put a stock alert on the All Seasons at Wiggle, it'll be interesting to see if they're the same price when (if!) they're back in.

Got sent an email this afternoon saying that they were back in stock. Just checked now and they're out of stock again!

My rear is getting pretty cut up probably at around 800 miles maybe more I have lost track a bit swapping between bikes and having to master reset the Garmin etc. Left the tube in from Monday was going to sort it at the weekend punctured again this morning! 4 miles from work so lazily as I was cold and close to work I Co2 it up twice and then bizarrely the residue sealant appears to have sealed it. Looking at it in daylight I would say its buggered. I have one 25mm going to put that on today and try and repair the cuts on the other one, if this one goes the same way I am back on the S-One or might follow Ugo on to the Sector's!! In its defence the weather has been really wet and horrible, all my riding has been in the darkso no real avoidance and its probably the worst time of year for punctures as all the crap is rinsed out and part of my journey has had the gutter machine swept problem is all they seem to have done is move it 20" in to the road!!

As an aside having ridden for two, nearly three years tubeless It has felt a little strange on a tubed tyre, can't really explain in what way, not really like a solid tyre but that's the best I can come up with.

Fat-Boy-Roubaix

Gone down now so not any new miracle invention! Will post some pictures but the big hole from Monday does look terminal to me :-(

cycleclinic

i have 23mm IRC roadlites on my race bike. The rear has holed but selaed in a race. It had 40 psi at the end it was quite ridelable. Put more air in after and its fine. So I am not sure that 23mm tubeless tyre are pointless but if you can fit wider tyres in then there is little point in the narrower ones.

FBR can't the tyre be patched from the inside? Some tyres can some cant. If the tyre has a buytle or latex lining then it can be patched quite sucessfully. I take it worms have failed to plug the hole.

IRC distribution in the U.K is now sorted. Got an e-mail today.

Fat-Boy-Roubaix

thecycleclinic wrote:

i have 23mm IRC roadlites on my race bike. The rear has holed but selaed in a race. It had 40 psi at the end it was quite ridelable. Put more air in after and its fine. So I am not sure that 23mm tubeless tyre are pointless but if you can fit wider tyres in then there is little point in the narrower ones.

FBR can't the tyre be patched from the inside? Some tyres can some cant. If the tyre has a buytle or latex lining then it can be patched quite sucessfully. I take it worms have failed to plug the hole.

IRC distribution in the U.K is now sorted. Got an e-mail today.

Forgot to take a picture of it inflated but it was quite a big hole that was bulging and drip leaking sealant after a patch sealed it kind of, never tried worms before.

I think what me and Ugo agreed on was that on the whole the management of 23mm tubeless from getting on and off and in the event of a puncture repairing or tubing roadside makes it maybe not a viable option, or as you say pointless if you can get a 25mm or 25mm+ on the bike. This was only the third time in a lot of miles that I have had to stop and do something about a puncture rather than adding some air so not really catastrophic and still happy on tubeless.

You have secured UK distribution on the IRC tyres? Well done!

fat_tail

thecycleclinic wrote:

i
FBR can't the tyre be patched from the inside? Some tyres can some cant. If the tyre has a buytle or latex lining then it can be patched quite sucessfully. I take it worms have failed to plug the hole.

What would you recommend for inside patch ? The weldite kit was pretty bloody useless imho.

cycleclinic

Worms are very useful. Ride down a flint strewn road last week and bingo three holes forst in 4000km of riding off road and over lots of gravel and flint so not bad. One would not seal. Worms however (genuine innovations tubeless tyre repair kit) fixed two of the holes. You fit the worm with an applicator that makes the hole bigger but they do fill a hole. The sealant fixed the third by itself. One hole leaked sealant above 40 psi so when i got to the shop i took the tyre off and used normal inner tube repair pathes and vulcanising glue. Tyres with a buytl lining or latex liner are needed to make this work. Not all tubeless tyres have these like the schwables. I have found patch and glue does not stick to these. Another reason why i use the tyres i do they can be properly repaired to extend there life.

You should not have to put a tube in in a tubeless tyre ever. That is what worms are for. They will seal a hole even at low pressure which will get you home.

I am tenatious fellow so picking brands up is now easy.

g00se

I've always assumed that the worms would work for bulkier, lower pressure tyres for Mtb and possibly cyclocross, but would they work for high pressure road tyres? Also, are they a temporary thing or permanent?

Ta

cycleclinic

Assumptions assumptions. As I sad worms get you out of trouble. they may seal the hole fully or you may get a partial seal i.e a seal at a lower pressure. The worms can left in without issue. If you get a seal only at lower pressure then you can ride indefinatley at that lower pressure or remove the tyre and effect a proper repair with a patch at home, but a tyre has to be patchable not all are or some are more easy to do than others.

I dont carry a spare tube. I carry a pack of worms, an applicator and CO2. given the day to day bike has two cavenours panniers I also carry some stans just in case I loose to much. no inner tube uttlerly pointless waste of space although there is space to waste in the panniers. However puncture are rare for me now. Only had to stop once this year on tubeless.


Stans race sealant also will plug bigger holes. I have not been using it much though but I should. I have it in the race bike I think or I did cant remember now.

Lack of knowledge is the root of all tubeless tyre problems and picking tyres that are not meant for the use you intend.

fat_tail

thecycleclinic wrote:

Assumptions assumptions. As I sad worms get you out of trouble. they may seal the hole fully or you may get a partial seal i.e a seal at a lower pressure. The worms can left in without issue. If you get a seal only at lower pressure then you can ride indefinatley at that lower pressure or remove the tyre and effect a proper repair with a patch at home, but a tyre has to be patchable not all are or some are more easy to do than others.

I dont carry a spare tube. I carry a pack of worms, an applicator and CO2. given the day to day bike has two cavenours panniers I also carry some stans just in case I loose to much. no inner tube uttlerly pointless waste of space although there is space to waste in the panniers. However puncture are rare for me now. Only had to stop once this year on tubeless.


Stans race sealant also will plug bigger holes. I have not been using it much though but I should. I have it in the race bike I think or I did cant remember now.

Lack of knowledge is the root of all tubeless tyre problems and picking tyres that are not meant for the use you intend.

the reason I carry a tube is as a last resot. I have had to use 3 or more worms (or anchovies) whilst trying to repair holes.

do you recommend using normal pataches on the IRC roadlite ? I reckon the tyres I just took off my bike have a bit of life left if repaired from the inside

cycleclinic

yep it has a butyl lining so a good patch and glue will do the job if you patch it properly. What are you riding over though. I ride over loads of rubbish and dont have those problems.

Do you mean the worms do not plug the hole at all or only plug once the pressure has fallen alot. If the latter just ride it home and sort it out there. worms wont plug a hole at 100 psi, they will get you home though even riding the tyre at 40 psi is fine. If it the former then what ever you have ridden over would have murdered a normal tyre.

What sealant are you using. Stans race sealant is the best.

fat_tail

thecycleclinic wrote:

yep it has a butyl lining so a good patch and glue will do the job if you patch it properly. What are you riding over though. I ride over loads of rubbish and dont have those problems.

Do you mean the worms do not plug the hole at all or only plug once the pressure has fallen alot. If the latter just ride it home and sort it out there. worms wont plug a hole at 100 psi, they will get you home though even riding the tyre at 40 psi is fine. If it the former then what ever you have ridden over would have murdered a normal tyre.

What sealant are you using. Stans race sealant is the best.

I just ride roads but London roads are full of cr*p.
I have had excellent experience with the GI worms. However, the last cut I had the worms just wouldn't plug it. I managed to plug it on the side of road but a week later the plug got pushed out. Every time I pumped up the tyre to 90 psi I would start hearing a crackling sound and the worm would get pushed out. No amount of twisting the worms in would keep them in. I then tried the weldite tubeless kit which had fatter worms but I think they are far too big for road tyres. The I tried using a weldite inside patch but they were next to useless. In the end I bought a pair of Hutchinson Intensive IIs to use over winter. But the roadlites still have some life in them and I am hoping to repair the holes from the inside and ride them next spring.

I use Stan's sealant.

Fat-Boy-Roubaix

Stans sealant is different to race sealant. The race sealant has larger and more latex crystals. Not used it myself you can only apply it directly in to the tyres not through a open presta valve. Supposed to seal quicker and fix larger leaks. http://road.cc/content/review/189722-st ... ce-sealant

Looking on the Hutchinson site my all season get a 3 for puncture protection, the Sectors and Intensive get a 5. So I think the next set will be 28mm Sectors for me in the winter. Just because really could and probably should go back ot the S-One but like trying out new stuff.

fat_tail

Fat-Boy-Roubaix wrote:

Stans sealant is different to race sealant. The race sealant has larger and more latex crystals. Not used it myself you can only apply it directly in to the tyres not through a open presta valve. Supposed to seal quicker and fix larger leaks. http://road.cc/content/review/189722-st ... ce-sealant

Looking on the Hutchinson site my all season get a 3 for puncture protection, the Sectors and Intensive get a 5. So I think the next set will be 28mm Sectors for me in the winter. Just because really could and probably should go back ot the S-One but like trying out new stuff.

£32 for race sealant - ouch !

Fat-Boy-Roubaix

on the road cc review someone gave a thumbs up for this not come across it before, not sure what to think of the orange coating on the whole inside of the tyre?! PR looks good though http://www.extrauk.co.uk/product/cats/Orange_Seal/all/

g00se

The guy who owns one of the local shops swears by it. Says it better than the standard Stans and the 'Endurance' version lasts a long time too. I'm going to try it next time I get some new tyres.