Road tubeless tyres, where and how much?

g00se

tim wand wrote:

g00se wrote:

If they're that easy to fit, then they're too loose to seal. You'll need to build up the rim bed with tape.

Thought this myself. Will go with another layer of Rim Tape. although why it was Okay with the Schwalbes . I don't know.

Tyres can all be different. Like Malcolm said, Schwalbe and IRC were very similar. I've recently gone tubeless on my cyclecross bike. I tried Specialized Terra tyres and they were so loose, I got them on by hand with no effort. Then tried some Vittorias and the complete opposite.

(Tubeless on CX is a complete different kettle of fish because they run at so low pressure (30-40 PSI). Rather than worry about blowing the tyres off of the rim, the art is getting the fit sooo tight, they wont 'burp' if the bead gets pushed back off of the rim and into the rim bed. I had about 5 turns of tape on the rims with the Specializeds and I could still push the tyre off of the rim with my thumbs when at 30 PSI).

tim_wand

Sorted. One pass of Gorilla tape 25 mm over each rim and a combination of Stans Valves with the rubber grommet from a Velo Orange valve got them up with the track pump no problem.

Hardest job was getting the Schwalbe One off the rear , was like a Track Tub, still I did buy the wheelset of a German bloke who builds AMG Mercedes engines for the F1 team in Northampton. He d used Conti Revo as a sealant , bugger that stuffs tough!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

thegibdog

Ordered the Maxxis tyres on the two for one deal but then got notification that the Hutchinson All Season were back in so got them too.

Fitted the Hutchinsons today and it was a much easier job than the Schwalbe Ones I had a while back. Only needed a bit of tyre lever work to get the last bit on and got them inflated with the track pump after a quick once over to seat them properly.

Will see how I get on with the All Seasons and may give the Maxxis a go in the summer. Going to get some worms too for repairs - I'm assuming I'd need CO2 to reinflate at the roadside?

manxshred

I've been running tubeless for a while now. I started on Hutchinson fusion 2s, the Bontrage tlr.

I tried Schwalbe Pro Ones in 28mm which have been good over the summer, but I haven't had as much confidence with them in the cold. Then I got a puncture yesterday. No sign of a leak rotating the wheel before it was fully flat. I battled for 20 minutes to get the tyre off to fit a tube. Absolutely ridiculously tight. Finally managed, and had plenty of sealant left. Popped tube in, battled for ages to get tyre back on and made it home.

I might go back to tubes due to options of tyres, and being able to change them when things go wrong.

cycleclinic

gping back to tubes is not the answer. schwable ones do puncture all too frequently. If you are loosing air try a shot of CO2 that normally forces a seal.

Try a different tyre. there are much better tyres than the one or Pro one. Fine summer tyres as you said not much good now though.

Also I have found the one did not always seal well when I used them not sure why but other tyres like the ones I use seal much better for some reason. Had a puncture in my roadlite the other week heard the his then it stopped that what I like.

If you have the right tyre levers you wont have to battle with a tubeless tyre. VAR RP42500 is the solution as is the IRC tyre lever which I will be getting a large number off. All the others are not as good.

http://crossbikereview.com/gear/reviews ... ire-levers
http://www.vartools.com/en/tyre-levers- ... r-p512.php

folks dont go back to tubes. Every problem I have read in this thread is a problem easily avoid if you know how.

Fat-Boy-Roubaix

To be honest I am starting wonder if my issue is the Stan's Sealant not working as well as the Hutchinson one I was using. Might clear out the tyres and start a fresh with that Orange Sealant.

Fat-Boy-Roubaix

thegibdog wrote:

Fitted the Hutchinsons today and it was a much easier job than the Schwalbe Ones I had a while back. Only needed a bit of tyre lever work to get the last bit on and got them inflated with the track pump after a quick once over to seat them properly.

Will see how I get on with the All Seasons and may give the Maxxis a go in the summer. Going to get some worms too for repairs - I'm assuming I'd need CO2 to reinflate at the roadside?

That is exactly my experience with the Hutch All Seasonas well, plus I have got a tube in to a 25mm roadside without levers, helped by the sealant everywhere I think (just to annoy Cycleclinic!!:-)

Deffo need CO2 roadside, never tried a hand pump cannot imagine that working.

manxshred

I might try the Sectors in 28's then. ACycles have them in at a good price.

I've been tubeless for absolutely ages so its not like I'm just starting out with this.

Alex99

Fat-Boy-Roubaix wrote:

Read that some regular riders spend a few minutes picking stuff out of the tyre after a ride, something I have never done, anyone do that?

All my tyre being binned have been due to cuts or bulging repairs, I do have 4 tyres hanging up that have life but need patching, hung them with good intentions. I was the same with tubes carried new ones and bought the old ones home to repair and rarely if ever did repair them!

Yes, I check my tyres after most rides. Every ride if wet. I pick out loads of flints and hardly ever puncture. I'm pretty sure that most punctures are not spontaneous, but result from embedded stuff going on a journey. Probably depends on where you live and what type of debris your roads have.

devonboy

Fat-Boy-Roubaix wrote:

To be honest I am starting wonder if my issue is the Stan's Sealant not working as well as the Hutchinson one I was using. Might clear out the tyres and start a fresh with that Orange Sealant.

I have always used Stans in my MTB but this summer it failed to seal a larger than average hole in a pro one caused by a hawthorn prickle.The Stans would seal and then the seal would break again while riding.

I replaced with orange endurance sealant which worked immediately with no recurrence.

I do wonder if Stans is not so good at sealing at higher road pressures.I normally run at 80/85 psi and after a puncture with Stans tyre pressure would drop to @50 psi before it would seal,but the orange sealant keeps pressure at @70psi.

tim_wand

thecycleclinic wrote:

gping back to tubes is not the answer. schwable ones do puncture all too frequently. If you are loosing air try a shot of CO2 that normally forces a seal.

Try a different tyre. there are much better tyres than the one or Pro one. Fine summer tyres as you said not much good now though.

Also I have found the one did not always seal well when I used them not sure why but other tyres like the ones I use seal much better for some reason. Had a puncture in my roadlite the other week heard the his then it stopped that what I like.

If you have the right tyre levers you wont have to battle with a tubeless tyre. VAR RP42500 is the solution as is the IRC tyre lever which I will be getting a large number off. All the others are not as good.

http://crossbikereview.com/gear/reviews ... ire-levers
http://www.vartools.com/en/tyre-levers- ... r-p512.php

folks dont go back to tubes. Every problem I have read in this thread is a problem easily avoid if you know how.

Let us know when you have some of the IRC levers available. I ll have some off you. Couldn't Imagine trying to get that Schwalbe one on my rear off at the roadside. took me 20 minutes plus of Grunting and Swearing in the kitchen

Fat-Boy-Roubaix

devonboy wrote:

Fat-Boy-Roubaix wrote:

To be honest I am starting wonder if my issue is the Stan's Sealant not working as well as the Hutchinson one I was using. Might clear out the tyres and start a fresh with that Orange Sealant.

I have always used Stans in my MTB but this summer it failed to seal a larger than average hole in a pro one caused by a hawthorn prickle.The Stans would seal and then the seal would break again while riding.

I replaced with orange endurance sealant which worked immediately with no recurrence.

I do wonder if Stans is not so good at sealing at higher road pressures.I normally run at 80/85 psi and after a puncture with Stans tyre pressure would drop to @50 psi before it would seal,but the orange sealant keeps pressure at @70psi.

I can't remember where I read it but someone said they changed the formula to meet some new regulation. CycleClinic recommend the race version - You have convinced me to clean them out and try the Orange one

With the Stans I am not even 100% sure it is sealing anything, they tryes that come off have no obvious plugs and when I do have a small one it holds air okaish but I get a wet patch on it when I am not riding.

cycleclinic

I also think it is tyre dependent. Sealing with the ones does seem to be an issue. maybe some sealants are better at sealing some tyres than others.

Yes try a different sealant, nothing to loose. why clean it out just break the seal and drain it out. refil through the valve.

fat_tail

ordered Orange Endurance sealant .... only problem with breaking the seal is that I am going to need two CO2 canisters to reseat the tyre... all attempts at seating the Hutchinson Intensive II without CO2 have proved fruitless.

On the other hand, they are easy to get on Hunt Dura rims with just a little bit of elbow grease and a tea towel. And they hold air much better than the IRC. Roughly 2 weeks between top ups. Roadlites used to be on a 5 day cycle.

ugo.santalucia

fat_tail wrote:

ordered Orange Endurance sealant .... only problem with breaking the seal is that I am going to need two CO2 canisters to reseat the tyre... all attempts at seating the Hutchinson Intensive II without CO2 have proved fruitless.

On the other hand, they are easy to get on Hunt Dura rims with just a little bit of elbow grease and a tea towel. And they hold air much better than the IRC. Roughly 2 weeks between top ups. Roadlites used to be on a 5 day cycle.

If you want to use tubeless in the long run, I suggest you get something like an Air-shot... makes life easier

Fat-Boy-Roubaix

Well another puncture last night - a little slice of in-bedded flint. Wasn't completely flat but not rideable.

I think this does support someone's theory further up. I put a shot of Co2 in and did what I always used to do and pedal the wheel with the bike upside down, all that came out was air could feel it on my hand each rotation. Wondered if sealant had gone so pumped it up a bit more and settled the wheel with puncture at the bottom, out came the sealant and then sealed. Lost a bit of air on the way home not much, tracked pumped it to 90psi and pishhhhh so left it overnight upside down it went down to 75psi and seemed ok. IMO the hole was not significant enough that I should have even noticed let alone get down to 15psi.

Previous experience is that wheel spinning the sealant finds the hole and seals whilst spitting sealant but not last night and pretty sure it didn't last time as I was surprised at how much sealant was left when I took the tyre off at home!?

Fat-Boy-Roubaix

http://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/Thin ... _4155.html

Stans didn't do too well here but tested inside a tube?!

Alex99

ugo.santalucia wrote:

fat_tail wrote:

ordered Orange Endurance sealant .... only problem with breaking the seal is that I am going to need two CO2 canisters to reseat the tyre... all attempts at seating the Hutchinson Intensive II without CO2 have proved fruitless.

On the other hand, they are easy to get on Hunt Dura rims with just a little bit of elbow grease and a tea towel. And they hold air much better than the IRC. Roughly 2 weeks between top ups. Roadlites used to be on a 5 day cycle.

If you want to use tubeless in the long run, I suggest you get something like an Air-shot... makes life easier

Random thought, did you tubeless guys consider rigging something up using a car tyre and a tube with a valve as a pressure reservoir to seat a tubeless tyre?

saftlad

Alex99 wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

fat_tail wrote:

ordered Orange Endurance sealant .... only problem with breaking the seal is that I am going to need two CO2 canisters to reseat the tyre... all attempts at seating the Hutchinson Intensive II without CO2 have proved fruitless.

On the other hand, they are easy to get on Hunt Dura rims with just a little bit of elbow grease and a tea towel. And they hold air much better than the IRC. Roughly 2 weeks between top ups. Roadlites used to be on a 5 day cycle.

If you want to use tubeless in the long run, I suggest you get something like an Air-shot... makes life easier

Random thought, did you tubeless guys consider rigging something up using a car tyre and a tube with a valve as a pressure reservoir to seat a tubeless tyre?

I'm not sure that would work very well. Tyre pressures on my car are down at 36psi, so once the pressure equalises over both tyres, I doubt that would be enough to seat it. My tubeless run at double that plus a bit.

ugo.santalucia

Alex99 wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

fat_tail wrote:

ordered Orange Endurance sealant .... only problem with breaking the seal is that I am going to need two CO2 canisters to reseat the tyre... all attempts at seating the Hutchinson Intensive II without CO2 have proved fruitless.

On the other hand, they are easy to get on Hunt Dura rims with just a little bit of elbow grease and a tea towel. And they hold air much better than the IRC. Roughly 2 weeks between top ups. Roadlites used to be on a 5 day cycle.

If you want to use tubeless in the long run, I suggest you get something like an Air-shot... makes life easier

Random thought, did you tubeless guys consider rigging something up using a car tyre and a tube with a valve as a pressure reservoir to seat a tubeless tyre?

I got my airshot for 47 quid... it's little more than a track pump... I can still make it to the end of the month

Fat-Boy-Roubaix

Well gone right off Stans and the all season. #The tyre I will reserve marking as a failure once I have swapped sealant. Front started pishing out could hear and see it in my light wasn't sealing stopped let it rest at the bottom semi sealed now both are only holding 25-30 psi. My roads ain't that rubbish probably 8 miles a day rural. Hole didn't look big either.

Can't get Orange locally will pick up the Hutch protect air and stick it in. Just going to do what Cycle Clinic said and stick it in.

cycleclinic

Well it turns out riding off road in the dark is not such a great idea on a tubeless road tyre. Got a small sidewall cut. with the tyre off (it has done alot of miles now) the damage actually looks repairable. I will try an inner tube patch and see if it holds air without bulging. If so I will put it back on the bike. Come on what the worst that can happen. That what I said on wednesday before heading home the off road roundabout way in the dark when it was wet.

FBR have you tried the genunine innovations worms. They seem to work quite well and dont push out at high pressure.

Fat-Boy-Roubaix

thecycleclinic wrote:

Well it turns out riding off road in the dark is not such a great idea on a tubeless road tyre. Got a small sidewall cut. with the tyre off (it has done alot of miles now) the damage actually looks repairable. I will try an inner tube patch and see if it holds air without bulging. If so I will put it back on the bike. Come on what the worst that can happen. That what I said on wednesday before heading home the off road roundabout way in the dark when it was wet.

FBR have you tried the genunine innovations worms. They seem to work quite well and dont push out at high pressure.

Got to try something, don't really want to bin these tyres! The worms seem counter intuitive making a hole bigger to then fill it. I couldn't get Hutch sealant so bought Bontrager TLR sealant. Performs better than Stans but they still only hold about 60psi anything more than that and they open up again once out on the road. It seems to be the same brown sliver flints embedding causing mine dead centre on the tread not got a clue where I am picking them up from though.

http://www.genuineinnovations.com/uk/pr ... ir-kit.php These do you literally just stick them in the hole with the screwdriver? Then what?

Looking back I have done 1100 miles on these so similar to the Ones, although this is the same puncture opening, really I should just clean them out and patch them but really would like a less agro alternative!

cycleclinic

Look fbr the worms work just use them will you. They will plug a hole to get you home. If they are not sealing at high pressure then yoj can remove them and patch the tyre like i have to with my small sidewall cut. If they do hold at high pressure then leave them put.

The genuine innovatiins ones are the best. I am telling you the solution that a bike mechanic uses and i know other shop owners and mechanics who use the same thing, now i wonder why..... maybe we know something. Yes you stick them in with the applicator provided not a srewdriver.

With your leak take the tyre off and patch although a worm may actually fix it but a patch is better, that is what a mechanic would do.

cycleclinic

Velox do tubless tyre patches and glue. They look at bit more substainial than inner tube patches so should reinforce the cut area. They would need to be cut down for road tyres.

http://www.chickencyclekit.co.uk/show_p ... 196&p=3880

fat_tail

thecycleclinic wrote:

Look fbr the worms work just use them will you. They will plug a hole to get you home. If they are not sealing at high pressure then yoj can remove them and patch the tyre like i have to with my small sidewall cut. If they do hold at high pressure then leave them put.

The genuine innovatiins ones are the best. I am telling you the solution that a bike mechanic uses and i know other shop owners and mechanics who use the same thing, now i wonder why..... maybe we know something. Yes you stick them in with the applicator provided not a srewdriver.

With your leak take the tyre off and patch although a worm may actually fix it but a patch is better, that is what a mechanic would do.

@TCC - what in your view is the best way of threading the GI worm into the applicator ?

Fat-Boy-Roubaix

Glad someone asked I got a whack for calling the applicator a screwdriver lol. I guess for me I will order and then RTFM as nothing much on their website other than vulcanising worms and a screwdriver, whoops applicator. The best patch kit I had came with superglue, cannot for the life of me remember the brand though. It was the best only once I was aware it was superglue lol

cycleclinic

pick the worm up and push the middle of it into the applicator then shove it into the tyre. Thats how they work. Maybe the folk having trouble with worms put the end of the worm into the applicator and then shoved into the tyre. That would leak and blow out at moderate pressure as there is only one bit of worm in the tyre there should be the two halves to plug the hole!

Tubeless problems = user error (like riding off road in the dark and wet)

fat_tail

thecycleclinic wrote:

pick the worm up and push the middle of it into the applicator then shove it into the tyre. Thats how they work. Maybe the folk having trouble with worms put the end of the worm into the applicator and then shoved into the tyre. That would leak and blow out at moderate pressure as there is only one bit of worm in the tyre there should be the two halves to plug the hole!

Tubeless problems = user error (like riding off road in the dark and wet)

I saw a video on youtube where the bloke was threading the worm through the eye of the applicator - just like you would if you were using a needle. I have tried to do that and failed. I have also tried to shove the middle of the worm through the applicator. That works some of the time - so just checking whether there was a better way of doing it.

cycleclinic

I have no issue doing this.

Another tubeless tip. Today i bought loctite superglue with the rubber in it ao it is flexible when set. I thought maybe it will fix that sidewall cut on that irc tyre i have. The cut is just above the bead hense a patch is not going to work. The best thing about superglue it will set with water present. So i mounted the tyre put some sealant in and inflated found the tiny hole and covered it with superglue witht the tyre deflated on the insde and the outside. I let it set and fotted back on the wheel. Inflated and it held air. Ride it home without issue. Tommorrow is my clubs mince pie run so i will use the commutor so i can take mince pies with me.

So i have a tube of this now in the panniers and will carry it with me all the time. If i puncture again i will see if this fix the hole before trying worm.