Road tubeless tyres, where and how much?

fat_tail

Is Stan's the standard for sealant ? My experience has not been positive because as far as I know it hasn't succeeded in sealing any of the punctures on my tyres.

coops1967

Yes, but I've found Effetto Mariposa CaffeLatex sealant very good also - it foams up so will seal rims and sidecuts more readily.

http://www.slowtwitch.com/Products/Thin ... _4155.html

kmanchester

What's the cheapest tubeless wheel option for winter? DT Swiss R24 at £190, any others?

oldbazza

saftlad wrote:

I'm about to replace my Conti 4seasons 28mm and thought it would be as good a time as any to try tubeless.

What would be the recommendation for tyre that rides similarly to the 4season, lasts well and is available in 25mm or 28mm size? I don't think the S-One in 30mm will fit, so I'm leaning towards a Roadlite.

Wheels are Archetypes and I fitted Stans yellow tape (2 layers) when I first got them, if that's useful info.

TIA

Hutchinson Sector 28? Worked nicely on my Archetypes.

Fat-Boy-Roubaix

Any views on this? 150 mile tyre, sizeable cut. Been patched with two slime skabz at the roadside (can really recommend these) too big a cut or ride on? Did think about trying to rubber cement in the cut?!

saftlad

oldbazza wrote:

saftlad wrote:

I'm about to replace my Conti 4seasons 28mm and thought it would be as good a time as any to try tubeless.

What would be the recommendation for tyre that rides similarly to the 4season, lasts well and is available in 25mm or 28mm size? I don't think the S-One in 30mm will fit, so I'm leaning towards a Roadlite.

Wheels are Archetypes and I fitted Stans yellow tape (2 layers) when I first got them, if that's useful info.

TIA

Hutchinson Sector 28? Worked nicely on my Archetypes.

Thanks. They're back in stock at Wiggle @£39 so I've ordered a pair.

bmxboy10

kmanchester wrote:

What's the cheapest tubeless wheel option for winter? DT Swiss R24 at £190, any others?

Get the Hunt All Season Duras for £229 and get a £20 free gift from HUNT the DTs get negative reviews on line.

bmxboy10

solboy10 wrote:

kmanchester wrote:

What's the cheapest tubeless wheel option for winter? DT Swiss R24 at £190, any others?

Get the Hunt All Season Duras for £229 and get a £20 free gift from HUNT the DTs get negative reviews on line.

Also get them to supply and fit the tyres for you. I have spent more on tubeless valves and sealant in the last 6 weeks than I have spent on tubes in the last ten years - just bear this in mind!

Fat-Boy-Roubaix

Wiggle had 48% off the Fusion 5 All Season so bought 2 25mm. Looks like they are dumping the Tubeless Hutchinson going by the discount.

ugo.santalucia

solboy10 wrote:

[Also get them to supply and fit the tyres for you. I have spent more on tubeless valves and sealant in the last 6 weeks than I have spent on tubes in the last ten years - just bear this in mind!

On the other hand yesterday I spent more time fixing a puncture twice (once on the road, then in the office when I realised the spare tube leaked) with clinchers than I have ever spent fitting tubeless tyres in nearly 3 years.

Tubeless tyres on order even for the commuting bike 8)

thepeginator

ugo.santalucia wrote:

solboy10 wrote:

[Also get them to supply and fit the tyres for you. I have spent more on tubeless valves and sealant in the last 6 weeks than I have spent on tubes in the last ten years - just bear this in mind!

On the other hand yesterday I spent more time fixing a puncture twice (once on the road, then in the office when I realised the spare tube leaked) with clinchers than I have ever spent fitting tubeless tyres in nearly 3 years.

Tubeless tyres on order even for the commuting bike 8)

What are you running out of interest?

The more I look at tubeless the more tempted I am to try it, the exorbitant entry cost relative to just buying a couple of clinchers is very off-putting though.

I've got some SL25 wheels on my disc bike and I was considering trying your 'ghetto tubeless' with some 30ish-c tyres as per your blog post. Tyres would have to be bought anyway and you can get tape/sealant/valves for not too much money, little enough that I'd consider giving it a go if I thought the benefits would be worth it. The only problem being that most of the tyres you get in that kind of size range are commuter tyres which tend to feel a bit wooden so I'm not sure if the benefit of the tubeless would just be negated by the tyre choice.

As much as I'd like to try tubeless schwalbe ones / IRC etc. I simply can't justify £40 a tyre - especially on that particular bike which is basically reserved for commuting / filthy weather duties - unless they were going to outlast normal clinchers by enough to offset the cost, but I don't think that would be the case.

ugo.santalucia

thepeginator wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

solboy10 wrote:

[Also get them to supply and fit the tyres for you. I have spent more on tubeless valves and sealant in the last 6 weeks than I have spent on tubes in the last ten years - just bear this in mind!

On the other hand yesterday I spent more time fixing a puncture twice (once on the road, then in the office when I realised the spare tube leaked) with clinchers than I have ever spent fitting tubeless tyres in nearly 3 years.

Tubeless tyres on order even for the commuting bike 8)

What are you running out of interest?

The more I look at tubeless the more tempted I am to try it, the exorbitant entry cost relative to just buying a couple of clinchers is very off-putting though.

I've got some SL25 wheels on my disc bike and I was considering trying your 'ghetto tubeless' with some 30ish-c tyres as per your blog post. Tyres would have to be bought anyway and you can get tape/sealant/valves for not too much money, little enough that I'd consider giving it a go if I thought the benefits would be worth it. The only problem being that most of the tyres you get in that kind of size range are commuter tyres which tend to feel a bit wooden so I'm not sure if the benefit of the tubeless would just be negated by the tyre choice.

As much as I'd like to try tubeless schwalbe ones / IRC etc. I simply can't justify £40 a tyre - especially on that particular bike which is basically reserved for commuting / filthy weather duties - unless they were going to outlast normal clinchers by enough to offset the cost, but I don't think that would be the case.

I use Hutch sector 28 for the good bike.

I am on the same boat, didn't want to fork out 80-90 quid for a pair of commuting tyres, since lately I have not been able to convert cheap touring tyres to tubeless.
I found a Wiggle offer for a pair of Hutch sector 32 mm at 50 quid, which is a good price, based on the 28 mm I have, they are also a step up in quality (and speed) to the Vittoria Voyager hyper 37 I am using at the moment.

I am very disappointed about the latter, very sluggish with inner tubes (up to 5 minutes slower on a 12 miles commute) and 2 punctures in a month on relatively clean roads

thepeginator

ugo.santalucia wrote:

lately I have not been able to convert cheap touring tyres to tubeless.

Is this a time/effort thing or have you tried and just not been able to make it work reecently? If you've tried and fail then I've got no hope of a 'ghetto tubeless' conversion!

I've literally just snagged a pair of vittoria pave 27s on the classifieds for the same as what 2 commuter tires would have cost so all this might be a moot point.

ugo.santalucia

thepeginator wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

lately I have not been able to convert cheap touring tyres to tubeless.

Is this a time/effort thing or have you tried and just not been able to make it work reecently? If you've tried and fail then I've got no hope of a 'ghetto tubeless' conversion!

I've literally just snagged a pair of vittoria pave 27s on the classifieds for the same as what 2 commuter tires would have cost so all this might be a moot point.

Couldn't get air inside to blow them... too loose fit. It's a hit and a miss.

If you read my article, I said it is safe up to 60 PSI... the pave' might be a bit small to be run at 60 PSI. I have heard bad press of folks trying conversions at 100 PSI

thepeginator

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I found a Wiggle offer for a pair of Hutch sector 32 mm at 50 quid, which is a good price, based on the 28 mm I have, they are also a step up in quality (and speed) to the Vittoria Voyager hyper 37 I am using at the moment.

I am very disappointed about the latter, very sluggish with inner tubes (up to 5 minutes slower on a 12 miles commute) and 2 punctures in a month on relatively clean roads

You'll have to report back about those - even at their current price (£27 each) that's somewhat of a bargain in the road tubeless market.

ugo.santalucia

thepeginator wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I found a Wiggle offer for a pair of Hutch sector 32 mm at 50 quid, which is a good price, based on the 28 mm I have, they are also a step up in quality (and speed) to the Vittoria Voyager hyper 37 I am using at the moment.

I am very disappointed about the latter, very sluggish with inner tubes (up to 5 minutes slower on a 12 miles commute) and 2 punctures in a month on relatively clean roads

You'll have to report back about those - even at their current price (£27 each) that's somewhat of a bargain in the road tubeless market.

It's 25 quid with the platinum discount, which I assume most people have

I was also interested in the Mavic Yksion 30 mm, but they only have one in stock... Acycles have those I think

thepeginator

ugo.santalucia wrote:

thepeginator wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

lately I have not been able to convert cheap touring tyres to tubeless.

Is this a time/effort thing or have you tried and just not been able to make it work reecently? If you've tried and fail then I've got no hope of a 'ghetto tubeless' conversion!

I've literally just snagged a pair of vittoria pave 27s on the classifieds for the same as what 2 commuter tires would have cost so all this might be a moot point.

Couldn't get air inside to blow them... too loose fit. It's a hit and a miss.

If you read my article, I said it is safe up to 60 PSI... the pave' might be a bit small to be run at 60 PSI. I have heard bad press of folks trying conversions at 100 PSI

Yeh I've been back to the article a few times and never got round to actually trying it. I don't think I'd bother trying with the pave's, I'd just run them with tubes.

If those Hutch 32's turn out to be decent then I'd probably just plump for those in the future as *fingers crossed* the price is only likely to come down over time. They're not exorbitant at current prices if they last the distance.

oldbazza

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I use Hutch sector 28 for the good bike.

I am on the same boat, didn't want to fork out 80-90 quid for a pair of commuting tyres, since lately I have not been able to convert cheap touring tyres to tubeless.
I found a Wiggle offer for a pair of Hutch sector 32 mm at 50 quid, which is a good price, based on the 28 mm I have, they are also a step up in quality (and speed) to the Vittoria Voyager hyper 37 I am using at the moment.

I am very disappointed about the latter, very sluggish with inner tubes (up to 5 minutes slower on a 12 miles commute) and 2 punctures in a month on relatively clean roads

Oh good just got a pair of those voyagers for the re-build of the other half's Liv Escape re-build;thought they'd be perfect for that.

Always got on with Randonneurs and hope'd they would be as good as them.

ugo.santalucia

oldbazza wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I use Hutch sector 28 for the good bike.

I am on the same boat, didn't want to fork out 80-90 quid for a pair of commuting tyres, since lately I have not been able to convert cheap touring tyres to tubeless.
I found a Wiggle offer for a pair of Hutch sector 32 mm at 50 quid, which is a good price, based on the 28 mm I have, they are also a step up in quality (and speed) to the Vittoria Voyager hyper 37 I am using at the moment.

I am very disappointed about the latter, very sluggish with inner tubes (up to 5 minutes slower on a 12 miles commute) and 2 punctures in a month on relatively clean roads

Oh good just got a pair of those voyagers for the re-build of the other half's Liv Escape re-build;thought they'd be perfect for that.

Always got on with Randonneurs and hope'd they would be as good as them.

mine are 37 mm... probably to big... the handling is pretty bad

ZMC888

Tough tubeless?
I ride places with lots of road debris including glass and sometimes metal splinters. Usually my rear tyre takes a hammering and get quite a few small cuts and well over the average amount of flats.

So what is the current toughest tubeless tyre on the market? Especially something for the rear that could be paired with something a bit grippier on the front?

thepeginator

ZMC888 wrote:

Tough tubeless?
I ride places with lots of road debris including glass and sometimes metal splinters. Usually my rear tyre takes a hammering and get quite a few small cuts and well over the average amount of flats.

So what is the current toughest tubeless tyre on the market? Especially something for the rear that could be paired with something a bit grippier on the front?

Just taking quotes from this thread, as usual YMMV. I've never tried tubeless myself but am tempted.

thecycleclinic wrote:

Try Hutchinson sector 28's or dare I say it IRC. Little else on the market that are actually robust but more tyres are not needed as these are all good.

Fat-Boy-Roubaix wrote:

My most reliable tubeless so far by miles, literally was the Schwalbe S-One 30mm Didn't slow me down that much and never punctured in 3500+ miles, held air for a week or more and was fine at 45psi. I was convinced the tyre would be slowing me down so I am now on 25mm Hutchinson Fusion 5 All Season which seem ok so far but only 400 odd miles in. I rear S-One was getting close to being worn through ot the thread, the front looks like it could go one for much longer

Schwalbe One - was a lovely tyre to ride but lost air overnight, and from 800 miles it became unreliable. This wasn't just one this was 23mm and 25 mm and about 3-4 sets between them. And cut up awful

Hutchinson Intensive were ok up to about 2000+ miles but then hot a horrible sidewall split\bulge, not really their fault.

Panaracers both front and back suffered with small cuts but both had one had a big one that went from the centre to the side wall the front one repaired fine and is still on the front, the rear had to be binned as it was bulging.

I have tried Hutchinson Atom's I think early on but cannot remember what they were like. I am over 12000 miles on tubeless and the Panaraer was the only one I had to call for a lift, more my fault than the tyre I had repaired it at the roadside but the valve was gummed up with sealant and I couldn't get any air in. Now carry spare cores and a core tool!

But I have dropped carrying tubes and a pump and just a patch kit and CO2 with spare cartridges

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I use Hutch sector 28 for the good bike.

I am on the same boat, didn't want to fork out 80-90 quid for a pair of commuting tyres, since lately I have not been able to convert cheap touring tyres to tubeless.
I found a Wiggle offer for a pair of Hutch sector 32 mm at 50 quid, which is a good price, based on the 28 mm I have, they are also a step up in quality (and speed) to the Vittoria Voyager hyper 37 I am using at the moment.

I am very disappointed about the latter, very sluggish with inner tubes (up to 5 minutes slower on a 12 miles commute) and 2 punctures in a month on relatively clean roads

There's also these; http://www.acycles.co.uk/mavic-yksion-e ... 14842.html which seem like a ruddy bargain at £27 each! and the 32c version of the hutchinson, also £27 a pop @ wiggle if they have stock.

ugo.santalucia

I did mention the Mavic tyres... I was tempted, but Wiggle have no stock and I prefer to order from the UK to avoid having to deal with couriers, which are a total PITA

thepeginator

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I did mention the Mavic tyres... I was tempted, but Wiggle have no stock and I prefer to order from the UK to avoid having to deal with couriers, which are a total PITA

You did. They get a good enough write up here; http://road.cc/content/news/154435-firs ... lroad-tyre and here http://road.cc/content/news/154435-firs ... lroad-tyre

Would be interested to hear peoples personal experiences... it's all well and good doing a 'white glove' review of a tyre thats been fitted by a pro mechanic. It seems - particularly with tubeless - it's a different ball game buying and using them yourself.

fat_tail

thepeginator wrote:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

I did mention the Mavic tyres... I was tempted, but Wiggle have no stock and I prefer to order from the UK to avoid having to deal with couriers, which are a total PITA

You did. They get a good enough write up here; http://road.cc/content/news/154435-firs ... lroad-tyre and here http://road.cc/content/news/154435-firs ... lroad-tyre

Would be interested to hear peoples personal experiences... it's all well and good doing a 'white glove' review of a tyre thats been fitted by a pro mechanic. It seems - particularly with tubeless - it's a different ball game buying and using them yourself.

I went tubeless in May this year. This is my experience thus far:

Purchased a tubeless ready wheelset from Hunt bike wheels and IRC Roadlites in 25mm from thecycleclinic.
I had a few problems getting one of the wheels to seal properly which involved a number of tape changes including buying some Stans tape. Try buying tubeless rim tape from your LBS on Saturday afternoon just before closing time! Luckily I live in SW London and managed to get to Sigmasport in Esher just before they closed.
Managed to get the IRC Roadlites installed and put in some Stans sealant.
I have had a about 3 punctures that didn't seal with the sealant. The first was quite early in tubeless journey which was very disappointing. I don't know if there are any smaller holes that have been sealed.
The punctures that needed attention were all fixed using Genuine Innovations tubeless repair.
A couple of weeks back I had a puncture which took about 3 anchovies and 3 gas cannisters and eventually sealed. This was however temporary as a week later (last Sunday) the tyre leaked and installation of fresh anchovies were reject until I finally managed to get the cut to seal. Roll forward another week (yesterday Sunday 6th Nov) and the same thing happened again. having cleaned and fettled the bike, I pumped up the tyre to 110psi and went out for a walk. Upon return, i found the tyre deflated. I then used 6 anchovies but no luck the cut would not seal.
The tyre has around 4200 km on it. The wear indicators are still visible. I got almost 7000 km from a set of panaracer gravel kings. In fact the tyre from the front wheel is sitting in "spare tyre" box...
I also had some problems with the leaking on the other wheel at the valve which was cured by using a dab of vaseline.
Have just ordered a Hutchinson intensive II from Wiggle. Hopefully this will be more robust.

Tubeless is by no means "fit and forget"

ugo.santalucia

fat_tail wrote:

I got almost 7000 km from a set of panaracer gravel kings. In fact the tyre from the front wheel is sitting in "spare tyre" box...

I punctured a gravel King on its second ride... I got 7000 Km out of a set of Hutch Sector tubeless

Fat-Boy-Roubaix

Due to the deals I am now running both bikes on Hutchinson all season The rear 23mm on the Cannondale has just gone over 1300 miles not much cuts no punctures. Just replaced the front with a Hutchinson.

Yet the 25mm All Season on the front of the GT Grade cut beyond repair in 100 miles centre of tyre to the top of the side wall I stopped air coming out with a patch but bulged and looked like it was likely to blow again. So much of this tyre stuff is luck. I had a tube bulge out of a cut in GP4000 more or less on the first ride.

My riding is crap roads but twice every day on a 250 yard of badly laid road shavings stones and gravel, should really walk that last bit but cleats and looking a knob etc. I reckon in average month I was getting at least one puncture with clinchers. Two since Jan 2014 so far that have interrupted a ride which is my measure. Repaired loads on tubeless in the comfort of home where they are slowly leaking but these run alright just lose air and a bit of sealant overnight.

My front tyres seem to give me more grief than the back which is the reverse of clinchers.

Still would never go back to clinchers & tubes

cycleclinic

4200km is not bad. the roadlite is not the Gravel King after all, i road race on roadlite's. I probably would not do that on a gravel King. IRC do do a tyre called the fusion X-guard which is far more puncture resistant.

Your tubeless taping woes are probably down to inexperience. Bubbles and kinks in tape can cause a path for air to leak out.
If you get to know what to look for when taping then you avoid the sealing issues you have had. The roadlite has a buytl liner so it can be patched in a traditional way which is a better long term fix. Those tyre worms are meant to get you out of trouble nothing more. If the tyre has life in it then trying patching the holes and using it.

Valves can leak but it is normally the collar working a bit loose.

for me tubeless is not a hassle. My Garmin pedals give me more grief.

fat_tail

thecycleclinic wrote:

4200km is not bad. the roadlite is not the Gravel King after all, i road race on roadlite's. I probably would not do that on a gravel King. IRC do do a tyre called the fusion X-guard which is far more puncture resistant.

Your tubeless taping woes are probably down to inexperience. Bubbles and kinks in tape can cause a path for air to leak out.
If you get to know what to look for when taping then you avoid the sealing issues you have had. The roadlite has a buytl liner so it can be patched in a traditional way which is a better long term fix. Those tyre worms are meant to get you out of trouble nothing more. If the tyre has life in it then trying patching the holes and using it.

Valves can leak but it is normally the collar working a bit loose.

for me tubeless is not a hassle. My Garmin pedals give me more grief.

I am not talking about the proper offroad gravel king but the semi-road version which comes in 26mm. I have had multiple flats on the gravel kings - don't get me wrong.

Tubeless taping woes - well every beginner is going to have that. the question that was posed was about the challenges faced by non-pro adoptees of tubeless.

Are tubeless worth it ? I am not sure. the ride is great, the prices are terrible and the availability of competitive products is very low. They are by no means "fit and forget".

Fat-Boy-Roubaix

fat_tail wrote:

thecycleclinic wrote:

4200km is not bad. the roadlite is not the Gravel King after all, i road race on roadlite's. I probably would not do that on a gravel King. IRC do do a tyre called the fusion X-guard which is far more puncture resistant.

Your tubeless taping woes are probably down to inexperience. Bubbles and kinks in tape can cause a path for air to leak out.
If you get to know what to look for when taping then you avoid the sealing issues you have had. The roadlite has a buytl liner so it can be patched in a traditional way which is a better long term fix. Those tyre worms are meant to get you out of trouble nothing more. If the tyre has life in it then trying patching the holes and using it.

Valves can leak but it is normally the collar working a bit loose.

for me tubeless is not a hassle. My Garmin pedals give me more grief.

I am not talking about the proper offroad gravel king but the semi-road version which comes in 26mm. I have had multiple flats on the gravel kings - don't get me wrong.

Tubeless taping woes - well every beginner is going to have that. the question that was posed was about the challenges faced by non-pro adoptees of tubeless.

Are tubeless worth it ? I am not sure. the ride is great, the prices are terrible and the availability of competitive products is very low. They are by no means "fit and forget".

What sealant and tape are you using?

I will be honest I am pretty inept at all thing mechanical and I found tubeless a massive learning curve. To get to the point where they are not a worry and pretty much fire and forget took me a while. Strangely it became that way when I came away from Schwalbe Pro One.

Roadside repairs were completely new, someone who used to just carry two spare tubes all the time. So the first time I had a puncture that wouldn't repair I tried to and just stick a tube in just about succeeded, but took me an hour! The second one I repaired at the roadside, much easier.

I have found 25mm to 30mm much easier to deal with both getting a fresh tyre on and having room to repair it without removing the tyre. Every tyre except the Pro One 23-25mm has held air as good or better than clinchers. The Pro Ones leaked 10-15psi overnight

I Also reckon running a tubeless at lower pressure is beneficial I run 23mm at 85-95 on the back 80-90 front. and less in 25mm

Check the sealant level and quality is also important.

Finally 2600 miles is pretty good and would have come second in my longest lasting tubeless tyre test!

ugo.santalucia

Fitted the Sector 32 yesterday... took a bit of persuasion to pop them onto the rim, but once there they haven't lost pressure over night. I rode this morning, carefully as it was borderline icey.
The first impression is that they are exactly the same as the 28 mm, in fact I hardly notice any difference in size... they might come at 30 mm and that is with a 19 mm internal width rim. 70 PSI are needed. They ride the same as the 28, so basically they are a cheaper alternative to the 28... in fact I might buy another pair for the other bike if the price stays the same.