Di2 owners, once gone electric wont go back?

bondurant

How dare you get the thread back on track.

bobbydazzla

Went to Mallorca and hired Canyon's with Dura Ace Di2 and Campag EPS. Spent 10 days on each and enjoyed electric, but not enough to justify the price premium. When upgrading my own bike I went for DA9000.

ozzzyosborn206

built a bike with 9000, then rode a mates bike with di2 and now wish i had gone ultegra did over 900

norvernrob

My riding buddy has Ultegra Di2, he's always messing about adjusting this or that but going by this thread I suspect it may be more him than the actual kit. My bike with Red has a quieter drivetrain than his.

Having said that, when Sram release the wireless Red I'll be all over it like a tramp on chips.

meanredspider

Yup - if he's messing with it, there's something wrong with what he's doing somewhere. Part of the joy of Di2 is that you can do the final trim on the move so should be very quiet.

ugo.santalucia

If SRAM get the wireless groupset right, both the current Di2 and EPS will look like Betamax recorders... that's the problem with electronics... any innovation make the old stuff look jurassic

meanredspider

ugo.santalucia wrote:

If SRAM get the wireless groupset right, both the current Di2 and EPS will look like Betamax recorders... that's the problem with electronics... any innovation make the old stuff look jurassic

I'm less convinced by wireless. You then need a battery in each component and, given that they are all physically connected on the frame, I'm not sure I see the point. Once you start moving control off the bike, then perhaps it makes sense. The wireless proposition needs more than just removing the very simple wires. There's some sense in making shifters wireless but then you might start to think about shifting into gloves or into generic controllers. I'm excited to see where it goes.

slam that stem

I once raced a cross race on a Ridley with Di2. My usual bike has SRAM Force. B/c of the gloves (usual MTB gloves, not even think winter jobbies you'd need now) I didn't really like the buttons b/c I missed hitting them many times so didn't shift when I wanted it to. This was very suboptimal and frustrating. I don't have a wide power band so really need to be in the right gear at the right time otherwise I'm grinding or spinning out. Usually grinding.

Also, multiple upshifts were not that fast. With Sram and especially Shimano you can jump up 4 cogs in an instant which is crucial for coming out of corners on the gas.

Unlike Sram, you cannot simultaneously brake and shift. Maybe more regular users are better at it.

I hated that the brake level blades are in line with the bars whereas the Sram and newer Shimano approach is to cant them outwards a few degrees to make them easier to reach in a hurry. They were narrow and felt like my ages old DA 7400 levers. They need to sculpt them better. New Red has a great, comfortable lever feel.

Lastly, I tore the cable out of the rear mech (oops, tree branch) which luckily the owner wasn't too peeved about. Cost me a few more beers on top of what I gave him for the borrow.

All in all I wasn't sold. If you toodle around in no hurry at 25 kph on sunny days without gloves and you are a gear junkie (i.e. you are proud of your Linn Sondek) then I can see these types thinking it's the bees knees.

meanredspider

slam that stem wrote:

If you toodle around in no hurry at 25 kph on sunny days without gloves and you are a gear junkie (i.e. you are proud of your Linn Sondek) then I can see these types thinking it's the bees knees.

I was out in winds that were forecast between 25-40kmh (gusting to 65kmh) today, with no shelter, in Assos FuguGloves (think over-expensive ski gloves) - my Garmin reckoned it was 1C. My 10-sp Ultegra Di2 worked faultlessly with the gloves - not a single false shift.

Your post tends to confirm my own opinion that SRAM is "agricultural" (I hated the Apex -typically American - I had on one bike and swapped it for 105 at the first opportunity). If you're used to driving an old tractor, a high-end sports car is going to seem fiddly.

As for braking and shifting, one of my favourite bits of my old Highland commute was standing the Volagi on its nose at the bottom of a short-sharp descent whilst shifting down the gears to tuck it through a chicane cut-through - nearest thing to race car sequential shifting on a bike - fabulous. You do need a basic level of coordination though which maybe we aren't all blessed with.

Judging a group set by one outing on a borrowed bike seems arrogant.

FransJacques

I think you're quite arrogant to bash someone's opinion, esp when he/she makes some very factual statements. Why not deal with those directly rather than an ad hominem attack?

Racing is a great testing ground, especially cyclocross. More appropriate than test riding a bike for 5 minutes up and down the street in front the bike shop, or reading about it on a forum. I race cross and I'd say I shifts once every 5-10 seconds at least. It's very dynamic and surfaces niggles v quickly.

DKay

slam that stem wrote:

I once raced a cross race on a Ridley with Di2. My usual bike has SRAM Force. B/c of the gloves (usual MTB gloves, not even think winter jobbies you'd need now) I didn't really like the buttons b/c I missed hitting them many times so didn't shift when I wanted it to. This was very suboptimal and frustrating. I don't have a wide power band so really need to be in the right gear at the right time otherwise I'm grinding or spinning out. Usually grinding.

Also, multiple upshifts were not that fast. With Sram and especially Shimano you can jump up 4 cogs in an instant which is crucial for coming out of corners on the gas.

Unlike Sram, you cannot simultaneously brake and shift. Maybe more regular users are better at it.

Lastly, I tore the cable out of the rear mech (oops, tree branch) which luckily the owner wasn't too peeved about. Cost me a few more beers on top of what I gave him for the borrow.

All in all I wasn't sold. If you toodle around in no hurry at 25 kph on sunny days without gloves and you are a gear junkie (i.e. you are proud of your Linn Sondek) then I can see these types thinking it's the bees knees.

Some interesting points raised.

It seems like the problem of missing the buttons was more of a familarity thing than anything else, seeing as it was your first time using Di2. Although some pro teams used to superglue small bits of plastic (like the end of a zip tie) to one of the buttons for extra differentiation when wearing full finger gloves. With regards to multi-shift, on it's fastest setting it's as fast as you'd ever want. Any faster and you'd need to be spinning a silly fast cadence to avoid bending your rear hanger.

With regards to tearing out the rear mech cable, I think that's a much more preferable thing than a metal gear cable being snagged and risking more extensive damage. With Di2, it's just a case of plugging in a new etube cable and away you go.

Finally, I'm not quite sure why you used a Linn Sondek as a simile seeing as it's an anologue source.

meanredspider

FransJacques wrote:

I think you're quite arrogant to bash someone's opinion, esp when he/she makes some very factual statements. Why not deal with those directly rather than an ad hominem attack?

Racing is a great testing ground, especially cyclocross. More appropriate than test riding a bike for 5 minutes up and down the street in front the bike shop, or reading about it on a forum. I race cross and I'd say I shifts once every 5-10 seconds at least. It's very dynamic and surfaces niggles v quickly.

So he didn't get along with it - that's fine if he'd left it there. But let's just examine his statement about sunny days, bimbling along with no gloves. I've ridden Di2 for 4 years nearly in all conditions and yet, based upon one go with an unfamiliar bike and a different gruppo manufacturer in a pressurised environment, he wants to say it's only good for sunny day cruisers??? As for racing, the vast majority of the pro peleton are using electronic shifting so please don't give me that.

Interested to know what factual statements I didn't deal with? I'm not sure there was a factual statement in the whole post just opinion. I addressed the shifting in gloves (road another 70k today in different gloves - same result: prefect shifting) - there's a clear step in Ultegra shifters between the two paddles that you can feel through the thickest gloves you're likely to use.

Braking while shifting? Absolute doddle: I have no clue what this is about other than coordination of the rider.

Slow multishifts: this is the choice of the guy that owns the bike.

Cable torn out: if I were riding in an environment where this was a risk, I'd just ensure the cable was tucked out of harm's way - much easier to do than with mech shifting where a large arc is required. Again, ask the bike's owner.

Bar Shaker

My cross mates cable tie or tape the RD wire close to the chain stay, with a very short radius into the mech. That's just not possible on a mechanical set up.

Bar Shaker

gloomyandy wrote:

How many shifts is a DI2 battery good for? I suspect that you shift much more often on a loaded touring bike than on the average road bike, I wonder how long a fully charged battery would last? Would it be good for a 3 or 4 week tour I wonder?

From looking at the stats on my Garmin 1000, I could get over 100 hours and 15,000 shifts to absolutely dead, so realistically a max of 75% of that. That is based on a ratio of 50/1000 FD/RD shifts.

Yes, you do shift a lot more with it that is one of the benefits it gives, you don't hang onto a gear, you elect the right one as changes are so unintrusive.

FransJacques

Don't think you can fall back on "it's what the pros use" for a bunch of punters. Pros don't buy our equipment for us. We do. Mechanics are not on-hand to fix it. Only the users are. We have equipment choices, they do not.

I bet Mick Rogers is missing his old Sram Red :-D I wonder why he didn't change bikes, maybe Aus was too far to bring a full TT back up bike?

DKay

Dude, seriously. Have you been thinking about this reply for the last 9 days?

FransJacques

No, it's just taken that long for Rogers' mechanic to forget to plug his battery in.

Also, a good authority reports that the same issue is what was responsible for the Wiggins' bike toss last year.

thegreatdivide

FransJacques wrote:

Also, a good authority reports that the same issue is what was responsible for the Wiggins' bike toss last year.

And your good authority is?

FransJacques

Someone who worked at the café sponsored by someone who owns a clothing company who also sponsors a trade team.

Apparently they go in there and help themselves to a coffee now and then or do celebrity barrista-ing.

Bar Shaker

I heard he had a puncture. That was was the bloke who works in our chip shop, whose mate is a bike mechanic and claims to have met the bloke who oils Wiggo's chain.

I think my source is more reliable.

Coach H

If he had a puncture why did he go back to mechanical for a number of months until Shitmano gave him a cuddle and persuaded him to go electronic again?
As I remember it was widely reported it was a Di2 fault (could be wrong)

By the way ALL manufacturers have in use faults with ALL types of systems. Use what you want, it will all be good

DeVlaeminck

It was a problem with his gears, I don't know if it was connected to it being electronic or not, I'm assuming Bar Shaker was kidding?

There have been a few examples of pros having problems with electronic shifting at crucial times - Valverde in LBL springs to mind - but any system can have problems.

Bar Shaker

DeVlaeminck wrote:

I'm assuming Bar Shaker was kidding?

Of course I was.

No one rubbishes using any part of a bike if a pro has a failure but woe betide anyone who has any problem with Di2.

veronese68

Bar Shaker wrote:

DeVlaeminck wrote:

I'm assuming Bar Shaker was kidding?

Of course I was.

No one rubbishes using any part of a bike if a pro has a failure but woe betide anyone who has any problem with Di2.

It seems to have gone quiet on that front recently. I was going to post a more tongue in cheek comment on another Di2 thread but chickened out for fear of reprisals.
I should add I have nothing against Di2, haven't tried it, can't afford it but am interested and reading the threads out of curiosity after all, who knows in future the knowledge gained may be useful to me.

mamba80

Veronese68 wrote:

It seems to have gone quiet on that front recently. I was going to post a more tongue in cheek comment on another Di2 thread but chickened out for fear of reprisals.
I should add I have nothing against Di2, haven't tried it, can't afford it but am interested and reading the threads out of curiosity after all, who knows in future the knowledge gained may be useful to me.

at the risk of having a fatwa thrown down on me.....

i could afford it, have used it and it worked very well thankyou, esp the front shift.... BUT i d never get it because in the rare event there is a problem, its game over, dealer time, money & inconvenience, problems with mech may be more common agreed but i can fix them all, the LBS etc will the parts and with far less expense.
It is also not significantly better than 6800/9000 to be worth almost double the cost.

slam that stem

mamba80 wrote:

Veronese68 wrote:

It seems to have gone quiet on that front recently. I was going to post a more tongue in cheek comment on another Di2 thread but chickened out for fear of reprisals.
I should add I have nothing against Di2, haven't tried it, can't afford it but am interested and reading the threads out of curiosity after all, who knows in future the knowledge gained may be useful to me.

at the risk of having a fatwa thrown down on me......

I hope you're not saying that on this particular forum if you pen *any* criticism of Di2 you might be scorned like Mr Rushdie?

Oh no, people have open minds here and show no tendency for having the last word.

DKay

mamba80 wrote:

at the risk of having a fatwa thrown down on me.....

i could afford it, have used it and it worked very well thankyou, esp the front shift.... BUT i d never get it because in the rare event there is a problem, its game over, dealer time, money & inconvenience, problems with mech may be more common agreed but i can fix them all, the LBS etc will the parts and with far less expense.
It is also not significantly better than 6800/9000 to be worth almost double the cost.

I don't understand why you would think that it would be 'game over' if you had any issues with Di2? Firstly, it is very rare to have any issue with Di2, to make a LBS visit necessary, as diagnostics can be run at home on your own laptop, which is a lot more convenient and faster than having to mess about with cables and barrel adjusters.

The increased cost to replace parts (which never really happens) could be a point, but here is an anecdote; last year I had to replace a 6700 rear mech because the metal thread that the barrel adjuster screws into, had badly corroded enough for it to be junked. The mech was in otherwise perfect working order. Cost of replacement was ~£45, which I would never have had to spend if the system had been Di2. Food for thought maybe.

With regards to it being worth the additional original outlay, you pays your money...

mallorcajeff

Ive done probably 30 thousand miles on di2 over the last three years and its been completely faultless never had one single issue and i mean not one. My new group set set is dura ace 9000 mechanical but only as i fancy a change. No other reason. More hassle sand stuff but i just fancy a mechanical feel again. No idea if i prefer it yes as not ridden it!

chadders81

Here's my two pence.

I have got 6770 on my Rose and it has run like a dream for two years - even when the battery and mech got completely submerged in hub-deep floods last year it never missed a beat.

I didn't seek it out specifically but I saw a great deal on a Di2 bike. I wouldn't buy a groupset on its own because I still think they're overpriced but there are some great deals on full bikes from the likes of Rose and Canyon and also the Westbrook deals.

I have never heard anybody say they regreat having bought Di2.

We'll all end up with Di2 and disc brakes eventually.

MisterMuncher

I found di2 very nice. It's definitely a step forward. I can't justify the cost over higher end mechanical, however. That's not the same as not being able to afford it, I'd just rather spend the money elsewhere on the bike. 4 or 5 years down the line I'll be all over it.