Di2 owners, once gone electric wont go back?

Fishboyz

Hi,
Thinking of a di2 canyon. Wondered once electric owners is it difficult to go back? As in is it that good?
Probably be a ultegra version for me.

meanredspider

Bought my first nearly 4 years ago and my second a year and a half ago. Zero issues - I love it.

sloppyschleckonds

I ditched mine after a couple of thousand miles as I found it a pretty dull experience, I would only go back to dura ace or record on a top end build.

6wheels

I'll be putting my order in when it's officially sold with an automatic function,rear mech only would be fine.

meanredspider

SloppySchleckonds wrote:

I ditched mine after a couple of thousand miles as I found it a pretty dull experience, I would only go back to dura ace or record on a top end build.

None of that makes any sense to me. Dull? In what way? That it just changes gear? And how will DA improve that? Does it play tunes?

DKay

I think it's great. If you can afford it, get it.

Just for the record, I have mechanical and Di2 bikes.

trailflow

I also found Di2 pretty dull and went back to Dura Ace 9000. The tactile feel, sound, timing and feedback of mechanical just isnt there with Di2. Thats what i missed. The Di2 buttons are almost silent to press. Its made worst by road noise and wind. They may as well be touch screen buttons. If they fix this in the next itiration it will be better.

The shifting performance was never that impressive for me either. It shifted nicely and was precise and reliable. But the shifting of DA9000 is not that far behind. I bought Di2 thinking i could change the speed of the shifts but found i could only change the speed of multiple shifts at a time not singles.

Another thing i dont ever see mentioned. I didnt like the fact that the rear of the bike felt heavier. Its only slight but i could feel it effect the handling. This is a minor issue though i'll admit. (that was with 9070 installed btw)

Not Di2 related but another reason i switched back is i felt i could get more braking force from the hoods on the 9000 lever shape. They curve outwards more, i think the shape is better.

Btw there is zero difference in performance of 6870 vs 9070. Just weight. The 6870 hoods are actually more comfier as the rubber is slightly thicker.

Not having to deal with cable tension and the auto trim are its best selling points. Di2 is OK but doubt you'll be amazed by it.

Matthewfalle

Slightly off tangent but still electrical related - I used Campy EPS at Ironman Italia - factory supplied bike so everything set up as perfect as good be (I believe).

Not that nice to tell the truth - did everything but I preferred my Red on my bike that I left at home. Very pretty though but not nice enough for me to buy.

Then again, it's all horses for courses and thousands of people love electric shifting so I suppose it's a try and see if it's for you scenario?

jezzpalmer

I have a DA9070 Canyon, and I love it. I have a mechanical bike too, but any future bikes would be Di2.

DKay

trailflow wrote:

Another thing i dont ever see mentioned. I didnt like the fact that the rear of the bike felt heavier. Its only slight but i could feel it effect the handling. This is a minor issue though i'll admit. (that was with 9070 installed btw).

Jesus, what must you think of your bike when it's got two full water bottles fitted?

undapressure

I've got Campy EPS and wouldn't go back to mechanical.

I tried Di2 and like most of the posts above felt it was too clinical. EPS is a totally different feel to Di2, the levers were engineered by Campy to feel identical in use to their mechanical and having used mechanical, I can't tell a massive difference in feel other than it is much less effort to change gear on EPS. The auto-trimming front derailleur is great, no rub in any gearing combo's.

meanredspider

@trailflow - can you explain "dull" some more? I'm sensing that you find it dull because it just works. I love it because gear changing becomes almost subliminal - I just don't think about it. FD changing is infinitely better not to mention the auto trimming. I simply don't recognise the dullness so I'm intrigued to understand it.

On weight, am I not right in thinking that 9070 is now lighter than 9000? I'm amazed by the idea of the RD weight affecting handling - from a physics point of view, an energy gel in your back pocket probably has more impact.

trailflow

Jesus, what must you think of your bike when it's got two full water bottles fitted?

thats a good point,i only ever use a 1000ml bottle. i dont think it affects the handling that much as the bottle weight is toward the middle of the bike,within the frame,not on the wheel axle. Also i think because my bike is around 6.5kg that i am hypersensitive to any extra weight.

@meanredspider

Overall 9070 is indeed lighter,but the front and rear derailleurs are not. The weight loss is in the shifters and wires.

When i say handling i mean it affected the way the rear wheel tracks the road. i am talking a very minor detail here ,nothing major. just something i noticed. I wouldn't have thought the 56 gram difference (to 9000) would have been noticible but it was. The extra weight on the Di2 front derailleur and less weight at the front of the bike may have played a part aswell. Also i was using a set of super light 1250gram wheels (Kinlin xr200 rims,Powerway hubs.)

meanredspider

trailflow wrote:

[ I wouldn't have thought the 56 gram difference (to 9000) would have been noticible but it was.

I think you were imagining it. Those sort of weight differences on a ca. 7000g mass of bike - least of all at the lowest point of the bike frame and, in the case of the RD, in the middle of a big gyroscope, cannot be noticeable. We haven't begun to mention water, food, the rider, the clothing etc. A change from Garmin 500 to Garmin 810 would probably have more impact.

thegreatdivide

meanredspider wrote:

trailflow wrote:

[ I wouldn't have thought the 56 gram difference (to 9000) would have been noticible but it was.

I think you were imagining it. Those sort of weight differences on a ca. 7000g mass of bike - least of all at the lowest point of the bike frame and, in the case of the RD, in the middle of a big gyroscope, cannot be noticeable. We haven't begun to mention water, food, the rider, the clothing etc. A change from Garmin 500 to Garmin 810 would probably have more impact.

Indeed.

Weight out 56 grams and hold it in your hand. It's nothing!

StillGoing

But some people have an ability to detect things that affect handling way beyond the ability of the average person. In blindfold tests with motorcycle racers, they can tell if suspension has been altered by minute amounts or the profile of a tyre is different. Just because one person doesn't notice a slight weight increase (and no I wouldn't either) doesn't mean someone who does is talking bollox.

matt-h

philthy3 wrote:

But some people have an ability to detect things that affect handling way beyond the ability of the average person. In blindfold tests with motorcycle racers, they can tell if suspension has been altered by minute amounts or the profile of a tyre is different. Just because one person doesn't notice a slight weight increase (and no I wouldn't either) doesn't mean someone who does is talking bollox.

I'm hearing ya.
But he's talking bollox

meanredspider

philthy3 wrote:

In blindfold tests with motorcycle racers

That would have made good (if short-lived) TV

mrushton

matt-h wrote:

philthy3 wrote:

But some people have an ability to detect things that affect handling way beyond the ability of the average person. In blindfold tests with motorcycle racers, they can tell if suspension has been altered by minute amounts or the profile of a tyre is different. Just because one person doesn't notice a slight weight increase (and no I wouldn't either) doesn't mean someone who does is talking bollox.

I'm hearing ya.
But he's talking bollox

Trick would be lose 100g of body weight then he's in credit

bernithebiker

Have 2 x Sworks Tarmacs, one with 9000 one with 9070.

I prefer the Di2 9070.

I was always very impressed with the 9000, and questioned the need for Di2 with shifting that good, then got a great deal on a 9070 set and installed that.

Shifts are now 'forgettable' to the extent that it's always perfect. No trimming, no 'did that shift up 2 or 3 gears?'

I love the press and hold function that will shift up (or down) as long as you hold the button.

I love the internal battery, and the (slightly) lighter weight. (No way can you feel the 'heavy' rear mech).

I love the clean look of almost no visible cables.

Only downside is that buttons can bit tricky to feel out with winter gloves on.

So it's good, very good, but I wouldn't drop another grand to upgrade the 9000 Tarmac to 9070 though.......

meanredspider

mrushton wrote:

Trick would be lose 100g of body weight then he's in credit

Well, that's kinda my point. 56g is about the weight of a typical energy gel. Stick that in your pocket and it's much higher up in the dynamic "system" so you'll need to accelerate it much further when leaning into a corner.

I absolutely accept that motorcycle racers can spot tiny differences to tyres or dampers - these are dynamic parts of their "systems" and these guys are riding in extremely controlled environments at the absolute limit with much much more energy in the entire system too (in the same way that I don't get shimmy on my bike at 40mph but I did at 60mph).

Even if one very "special" individual could detect 56g of difference (less when you consider the loop of cable and outer to a mech RD), it's hardly a consideration for buying Di2 for most people.

In fact, with DA Di2 weighing less, you then have to think where the extra mass of 9000 is. The bits of Di2 that are likely heavier are RD, FD and battery. These all sit very low relative to the centre of gravity. That means that the parts of 9000 that are heavier are likely to be the cables and brifters - generally high or mid frame.

Brailsford Bad

Ive had Ultegra Di2 for a few years now and i don't think its about 'not going back' i think its more about what you want out of your bikes.
Ive got Di2 on my main summer/spring/sportive bike and for that purpose i wouldn't go back to mechanical, but on my cheap as chips Felt I've got the newish Sora 9-speed group set and its fine for its purpose. I wouldn't stick Di2 on that because i don't need the finesse of it in winter, where I'm just putting base miles in over horrible terrain and crap weather. Not that the Di2 could handle it mind, mines been through rain storms (Ride100 this year)

If i bought a new bike and was spending a fair bit, then i would go electric again simply because its so easy to use, easy to maintain, Ive never had a problem with it. But likewise i wouldn't write off a good mechanical set-up if thats all you can afford.

I guess the biggest thing for me is the no-hassle maintenance and that 'mind' thing with gear changes. With Di2, you simply forget or stop worrying about 'gear changes'. With mechanical i still have that slight split second thought of 'has it shifted..did it do what i want?'. Di2 gets rid of that and just works.

I think electric and mechanical can live side-by-side, its like Blu-Ray and DVD...custard creams and chocolate digestives...fillet steak and hotdogs..etc etc.

cougie

trailflow wrote:

[
thats a good point,i only ever use a 1000ml bottle.

Why a 1000ml water bottle ? Use a 500ml for shorter rides and you'll save more grammes !

t4tomo

philthy3 wrote:

But some people have an ability to detect things that affect handling way beyond the ability of the average person. In blindfold tests with motorcycle racers, they can tell if suspension has been altered by minute amounts or the profile of a tyre is different. Just because one person doesn't notice a slight weight increase (and no I wouldn't either) doesn't mean someone who does is talking bollox.

It's is a pretty good indication they are talking bollox to be fair. Pretentious bollox at that.

veronese68

I think everybody is forgetting that the length of the chainstays make that 56g feel like the weight of a baby elephant is attached to your QR.

In case there is any doubt I am most definitely talking bollox.

Matthewfalle

Veronese68 wrote:

I think everybody is forgetting that the length of the chainstays make that 56g feel like the weight of a baby elephant is attached to your QR.

In case there is any doubt I am most definitely talking bollox.

Pendulum effect you say?

meanredspider

Veronese68 wrote:

In case there is any doubt I am most definitely talking bollox.

Is that your new "signature" V68?

itboffin

I've ridden di2 two years in a row in Mallorca and have to say I'm not a fan its just another solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

Well set up mechanical does what its meant to every time and never has a battery issue or needs resetting mid ride.

As for comparing groupsets I sold my 7800 dura ace mostly because I could tell the difference between that and my 5600 105 once I'd fitted sealed jagwire cables.

Campag mechanical for me everyday, I love how simple to set up and zero maintenance BB bearings excluded.

yaya

How often do you need to charge the battery in summer/ winter and is that easy to do on the internal batteries? Is there a warning of some sort when it's time for a re-charge?

meanredspider

yaya wrote:

How often do you need to charge the battery in summer/ winter and is that easy to do on the internal batteries? Is there a warning of some sort when it's time for a re-charge?

You need to charge every 1000-1500 miles or so. It's incredibly fast. Internal batteries are probably easier to charge using an external port. External batteries click off. I've submerged my battery in floods before now - never once had a battery issue.

There's an indicator with which you can check charge state. Should you forget to charge the battery, the system disables the FD (on the small ring) at which point you have a limited (100-ish?) shifts on the RD in order to "get you home". I deliberately played "charger chicken" on mine and it worked fine. Any Di2 shop will have a charger in the worst case and 20 mins will get you to 50%.

Frankly it's a total non-issue.

ai_1

trailflow wrote:

....i think because my bike is around 6.5kg that i am hypersensitive to any extra weight......
.......I wouldn't have thought the 56 gram difference (to 9000) would have been noticible but it was.....

My bike weighs about 6.95kg so I'm not very sensitive. I can't even tell how much road grime is splattered on the underside of the chainstays without looking.

I'm sceptical, very sceptical.