Di2 owners, once gone electric wont go back?

DKay

mamba80 wrote:

MRS why does it bother you sooooo very much that people dont always agree with you over Di2 ?

It's because 99% of the naysayers are not speaking from long term first-hand experience, so resort to speaking rubbish instead.

I only got Di2 because it came as part of the Westbrooks deal and until then, I was as big a sceptic as the next person. Now that I have it and used it for a few months I can definitely say that it's an improvement on any mechnical groupset I've used.

meanredspider

DeVlaeminck wrote:

the issues with charging

increased complexity of the system.

Based on what I just wrote, I'm going to resist responding other than to say I don't understand.

DKay

Another plus of Di2 which I hadn't anticipated, is the ease of install, as it's much less hassle and faster than a mechnical groupset. No need to route metal cables with fragile coatings, cut cable outers to the correct length, install end caps/crimps, dial-in tension or sort out indexing with a crude barrel adjuster.

Bar Shaker

Years ago I had a video player with huge great levers that you had to press to make it play or record. The action of the levers felt nicer than my mate's machine. I thought it was great in its day.

Nuff said.

bondurant

As analogies go that's...exceptional

DKay

Bar Shaker wrote:

Years ago I had a video player with huge great levers that you had to press to make it play or record. The action of the levers felt nicer than my mate's machine. I thought it was great in its day.

Nuff said.

Interesting analogy, as video tape degrades over time, doesn't give as high quality results and doesn't work as well as modern digital solutions, being less convenient and flexible. Just like a mechnical groupset in fact.

Bozman

My old boiler(not the wife) was reliable with only two failures in over twenty years, Mr Corgi informed me that this old boiler was so reliable because only three components could fail and these were cheap and easy to replace.
Five years ago I moved house and we installed a new boiler, we've had four failures in those five years and apparently they were a pain to fix and the parts were expensive.

DeVlaeminck

DKay wrote:

mamba80 wrote:

MRS why does it bother you sooooo very much that people dont always agree with you over Di2 ?

It's because 99% of the naysayers are not speaking from long term first-hand experience, so resort to speaking rubbish instead.

Yes but people who have tried it and aren't convinced are unlikely to have bought it so in a sense those using it are not a random sample of cyclists.

That said there are a couple on this thread who said they had it and went back to mechanical. Can't it just be that different people have different tastes and different requirements - I'm quite happy to accept that for some Di2 is a big step forwards but for others it isn't.

meanredspider

Bozman wrote:

My old boiler(not the wife) was reliable with only two failures in over twenty years, Mr Corgi informed me that this old boiler was so reliable because only three components could fail and these were cheap and easy to replace.
Five years ago I moved house and we installed a new boiler, we've had four failures in those five years and apparently they were a pain to fix and the parts were expensive.

Yup - modern cars are a nightmare - never start in the cold, overheat all the time, always need servicing and adjusting and they're really thirsty too and they are really dangerous in a crash too.....etc etc etc

Just been out on my conventional geared (Deore XT) MTB in the ice. Refused to shift to the small rear cogs the whole ride - parked up in the garage - shifted like a dream. I've no idea why I think Di2 is better...

roger_merriman

meanredspider wrote:

Bozman wrote:

My old boiler(not the wife) was reliable with only two failures in over twenty years, Mr Corgi informed me that this old boiler was so reliable because only three components could fail and these were cheap and easy to replace.
Five years ago I moved house and we installed a new boiler, we've had four failures in those five years and apparently they were a pain to fix and the parts were expensive.

Yup - modern cars are a nightmare - never start in the cold, overheat all the time, always need servicing and adjusting and they're really thirsty too and they are really dangerous in a crash too.....etc etc etc

Just been out on my conventional geared (Deore XT) MTB in the ice. Refused to shift to the small rear cogs the whole ride - parked up in the garage - shifted like a dream. I've no idea why I think Di2 is better...

Quite though in fairness, bar knackered cables I never such problems in sub zero conditions.

I can see for commuting yet another thing to charge if not frequently could get tedious, but other than that, once it gets down to the price point I tend to go for, great!

Brailsford Bad

Well Shimano and Campag have already stated that soon enough they wont be making mechanical gearsets and will focus purely on a range on electronic groupsets in the future, because thats the way its going, its called progress.

So what are you mechanical fanbous going to do then? Give up cycling? Go into a frenzy and take up golf?

No of course you wont, you'll adopt Di2 and get on with it. :roll:

bondurant

No they haven't

DeVlaeminck

Why the vitriol because someone doesn't see electronic shifting as a step forwards? Of course if mechanical groupsets are no longer available people will go electronic - you could equally say what would you do if you couldn't afford Di2 - you'd get Sora and get on with it.

Ps Bozman's "old boiler" was a boiler - not an old car. If we are talking cars though if driving was purely a hobby and for fun of all the cars I've had I'd take my old lightly tuned 1275GT I owned 25 years ago.

bondurant

Only a cretin could see no place for mechanical.


Oh.

DKay

Bondurant wrote:

Only a cretin could see no place for mechanical.


Oh.

DKay

meanredspider wrote:

Just been out on my conventional geared (Deore XT) MTB in the ice. Refused to shift to the small rear cogs the whole ride - parked up in the garage - shifted like a dream. I've no idea why I think Di2 is better...

Having been a fellow 20VT owner, I would have thought that you'd have been well prepared for frozen cables.

meanredspider

DeVlaeminck wrote:

Why the vitriol because someone doesn't see electronic shifting as a step forwards? Of course if mechanical groupsets are no longer available people will go electronic - you could equally say what would you do if you couldn't afford Di2 - you'd get Sora and get on with it.

Ps Bozman's "old boiler" was a boiler - not an old car. If we are talking cars though if driving was purely a hobby and for fun of all the cars I've had I'd take my old lightly tuned 1275GT I owned 25 years ago.

I don't actually see any vitriol. What I do see though is spurious arguments against Di2 (again and again and again).

Bozman's modern boiler didn't break down because it was "modern" (as was the implication of his post) but because it was cr@p. My reference to cars is that they are far more complex than boilers (or Di2 - but do use the same distributed control) and yet are infinitely more reliable & effective than their older counterparts.

And yes, I'd take my '69 Alfa Giulia but, as if to perfectly illustrate the point: give racers a free hand in the regulations and you'll find they are dumping the old parts (carbs, suspension, distributors etc) and fitting modern alternatives (throttle bodies, adjustable coil-overs, electronic ignition etc) - because they are both better and more reliable.

I'm fine with mechanical shifting - I still have 7+ bikes in the family with it - but I don't believe it's better in any objective way than electronic shifting.

meanredspider

DKay wrote:

meanredspider wrote:

Just been out on my conventional geared (Deore XT) MTB in the ice. Refused to shift to the small rear cogs the whole ride - parked up in the garage - shifted like a dream. I've no idea why I think Di2 is better...

Having been a fellow 20VT owner, I would have thought that you'd have been well prepared for frozen cables.

Ha - too true - though the answer for the Coop was to never touch the handbrake! I have fitted Gore Ride-On cables to the MTB because they used to freeze up all the time especially once the temp got down to -5C. I also fitted a little flap over the FD because it's right in the firing line of water, dirt and ice from the rear wheel. In this case, it seemed to be the RD with the spring being too feeble to shift it against the ice. If I was still doing the winter Spiker commute on the MTB, I would absolutely upgrade it to Di2 because I'd just want it to work.

kajjal

I can see the benefits of di2 but the cost and also preferring the simplicity of cables with no electrics means it is not something that would interest me. It may be coming from mountain biking I want something that can be sorted on the road / trails , with less to go wrong and not reliant on batteries.

meanredspider

Kajjal wrote:

I can see the benefits of di2 but the cost and also preferring the simplicity of cables with no electrics means it is not something that would interest me. It may be coming from mountain biking I want something that can be sorted on the road / trails , with less to go wrong and not reliant on batteries.

Fair comment but I think it illustrates the misconceptions about Di2 perfectly. Di2 is incredibly simple with the absolute minimum of moving parts and just about anything vulnerable can be tucked away. I'm not sure what you could fix on mechanical that you couldn't fix on Di2. I also don't really understand the worry about batteries - battery technology is incredibly reliable. If you're really worried, spent £30 and have a spare in your pocket. If I'd done that 4 years ago, I'd still have never used it.

gloomyandy

Although I'd be more than happy to have DI2 on my best bike (actually I wouldn't as I like the shape of the SRAM shifters better, but I'm sure an electronic SRAM groupset will be along soon), I'm not sure I like the idea of it on my touring bike (at least not yet).

Do they even do a triple? A flat battery mid tour, or a problem with a connector (not easy to internally route things on most touring bikes, and lots of chances to snag them) does not sound like fun. It's hard enough to get people to let me charge a phone at times, asking them if I can just pop my bike in the house and charge it might be a step too far (yes I know I could probably take the battery off the bike)! When things do go wrong, electronics may not be as easy to fix simply because they are not as common if nothing else. I managed to mangle my front mech on the Isle of Coll when a branch got dragged into it. The nearest bike shop was a long way away, but there was a local bike hire place, and the guy running it was happy for me to unbolt the front mech from a rusting heap in his stock of old bikes. Wasn't perfect but it worked well enough for the next two weeks!

How many shifts is a DI2 battery good for? I suspect that you shift much more often on a loaded touring bike than on the average road bike, I wonder how long a fully charged battery would last? Would it be good for a 3 or 4 week tour I wonder?

Probably only a matter of time though!

As for modern cars, a similar problem exists. When my car decided to immobilize itself on Barra a few years ago the only option I had was to get it loaded on the back of a truck and taken on the ferry all the way to a dealer in Glasgow!

Oh and judging by the comments on modern things like a carbon frame, or (looks round shiftily) disc brakes, on the CTC forum. I'd probably be drummed out of the CTC if I admitted to even considering using electronic shifting!

NeXXus

How many people are realistically going to consider touring with an electronic groupset? Yes it could be done depending on the tour type, but it's not really going to be a feasible option all of the time.

gloomyandy

Well if.....

Brailsford Bad wrote:

Well Shimano and Campag have already stated that soon enough they wont be making mechanical gearsets and will focus purely on a range on electronic groupsets in the future, because thats the way its going, its called progress.

So what are you mechanical fanbous going to do then? Give up cycling? Go into a frenzy and take up golf?

No of course you wont, you'll adopt Di2 and get on with it. :roll:

this is really the case then there may not be a (Shimano or Campag) option....

Anyway my (supposed to be light hearted) point, was that at the moment at least, I wouldn't have electronic shifting on a touring bike. As others have said, I'm sure that mechanical shifting will be around for a very long time, and I suspect that cycle tourists may well be the ones still using it (for good and bad reasons)!

mamba80

gloomyandy wrote:

Although I'd be more than happy to have DI2 on my best bike (actually I wouldn't as I like the shape of the SRAM shifters better, but I'm sure an electronic SRAM groupset will be along soon), I'm not sure I like the idea of it on my touring bike (at least not yet).

oh dear... my touring bike has down tube shifters :oops:

meanredspider

gloomyandy wrote:

How many shifts is a DI2 battery good for? I suspect that you shift much more often on a loaded touring bike than on the average road bike, I wonder how long a fully charged battery would last? Would it be good for a 3 or 4 week tour I wonder?

Typically lasts 1000-1500 miles. If I was touring that long, I'd take a spare battery (£30) or plan to have lunch next to a bike shop and have them top you up (every Shimano dealer will have a charger and it takes less than 1 hour). I'd be tempted, if it were critical, to carry a spare cable so, if you are accident-prone, you could replace it. Di2 certainly wouldn't stop me touring.

Seriously, though, Di2 isn't some sort of dark magic. People have been relying on dynamos for lighting since before I was a kid. They have wires too.

imposter2.0

Brailsford Bad wrote:

Well Shimano and Campag have already stated that soon enough they wont be making mechanical gearsets and will focus purely on a range on electronic groupsets in the future, because thats the way its going, its called progress.

So what are you mechanical fanbous going to do then? Give up cycling? Go into a frenzy and take up golf?

No of course you wont, you'll adopt Di2 and get on with it. :roll:

Not sure they have said that. But even if they both stopped making mechanical groups tomorrow, there would probably be a 10-20 year period where there would be enough mechanical kit available as old stock or s/h to keep the mechanical lot happy - including me. But as long as there is demand, there will be supply.

diamonddog

Or folks could use Sram not that I am in any way averse to electronic shifting.

thegreatdivide

Imposter wrote:

Brailsford Bad wrote:

Well Shimano and Campag have already stated that soon enough they wont be making mechanical gearsets and will focus purely on a range on electronic groupsets in the future, because thats the way its going, its called progress.

So what are you mechanical fanbous going to do then? Give up cycling? Go into a frenzy and take up golf?

No of course you wont, you'll adopt Di2 and get on with it. :roll:

Not sure they have said that. But even if they both stopped making mechanical groups tomorrow, there would probably be a 10-20 year period where there would be enough mechanical kit available as old stock or s/h to keep the mechanical lot happy - including me. But as long as there is demand, there will be supply.

I'm not sure they've said that either. Do you have a link to where this was quoted?

flasher

I've a feeling that he'll have trouble backing that nonsense up.

durhamwasp

Went to Mallorca and hired a Cube Agree with Di2, loved it and bought a Rose with Di2 for £1700. Havent regretted it for a second.