Thatcher is Dead

cornerblock

John Bercow has announced that the bells of Big Ben and the Great Clock at Westminster are to be silenced as a mark of respect during the funeral of Lady Thatcher on Wednesday. So no ding dongs, not even a boing.

dmclite-3.0

CambsNewbie wrote:

VTech wrote:

ANDY F wrote:

At the end of the day there wasn't a lot of difference between Adolf Hitler and Margaret Thatcher,
one bundled up the whole of their countries ailments and placed them squarely on the shoulders of one section of society,
and the other was the leader of the Third Reich.

And people suggest I am controversial.
Well, being in a German family I would like to comment that there can be both good and bad in everyone.

I'm struggling to think of the good in Hitler?

He liked animals ?

He had a funny moustache ?

Cleat Eastwood

His moustache was like a funny animal - boy he was complex

daviesee

Cornerblock wrote:

John Bercow has announced that the bells of Big Ben and the Great Clock at Westminster are to be silenced as a mark of respect during the funeral of Lady Thatcher on Wednesday. So no ding dongs, not even a boing.

Might be a bang though. :shock:

nathancom

You should go back to stormfront or wherever you came from.

nathancom

VTech wrote:

diplodicus wrote:

VTech wrote:

Where do you think the scout uniform came from ?

Baden Powell :roll:

They were of German descendants. Early pictures of Baden were similar to that pictured above hence after meeting Baden in the early years he adopted many key points for the "hitler youth"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... -show.html

Baden Powell also set up the first concentration camp. Am not surprised you follow fascists.

VTech

nathancom wrote:

VTech wrote:

diplodicus wrote:

VTech wrote:

Where do you think the scout uniform came from ?

Baden Powell :roll:

They were of German descendants. Early pictures of Baden were similar to that pictured above hence after meeting Baden in the early years he adopted many key points for the "hitler youth"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... -show.html

Baden Powell also set up the first concentration camp. Am not surprised you follow fascists.

Ok, in for a penny in for a pound.

In the 1800's and early 1900's Deep South of the USA there were a group of crazed men who dressed in white shrouds, rounding up "coloured folk" and hung them for nothing more than the colour of their skin.

In the 40's 50's and 60's UK their were people that used to find it great fun to go out "bashing" people for nothing more than their sexual orientation.

During the British conquering of the globe during the 1800's our army's (mainly foot soldiers) used to kill the "men of age", enslave the younger men into our army and rape the women.


So, after quoting only 3 quite recent historical facts you will take from that that I am a homophobic, racist who like to rape women.

If that's what makes you tick the fine but your making yourself look rather silly as most people would understand that quoting historical events does not mean that you agree with them and those that remember what's happened in the past are far less likely to allow the negatives to be repeated.

Your mind may think that the Jewish people want nothing more than the whole issue about what happened during the war to be forgotten but that couldn't be further from the truth. Not because they want people to feel sorry for them but because they understand that history NEEDS to remember the bad to make sure it never again happens.

ooermissus

I hadn't previously commented on your love-in with Hitler, Vtech, so not sure what prompted the bits of your meltdown directed at me. The idea that Hitler was a nice chap until he 'went bad' sometime just before the war is quite absurd, though.

Mein Kampf was written in 1925, long before Hitler came to power, and is a long anti-semitic rant ("If we pass all the causes of the German collapse in review, the ultimate and most decisive remains the failure to recognize the racial problem and especially the Jewish menace." etc). Have a read on how the strong must crush the weak here: http://www.hitler.org/writings/Mein_Kampf/mkv1ch11.html

And he governed as a tyrant from the start - wiping out all his political opponents as soon as he gained office. I think everyone, bar you, knows this. Spending a lot of money on motorways doesn't compensate for his early and repeated crimes.

Oh and that guy you linked to who approved of Hitler's progressive policies? He's being sarcastic, in a rather nutty attempt to show that Obama has much in common with the Nazis. The guy may be barking but - unlike you - he hates Hitler.

Are you sure this isn't just a tasteless attempt to stoke an argument?

VTech

Using assumptions and distorting history won't win an argument im afraid.

I chose to believe all humans are born good and do good during their life.
What turns them into monsters I can't answer but to wipe good good from bad people demeaners humanity.

Just because I believe people are born good (even you) doesn't mean that I agree with what they do.

nathancom

VTech wrote:

nathancom wrote:

VTech wrote:

diplodicus wrote:

VTech wrote:

Where do you think the scout uniform came from ?

Baden Powell :roll:

They were of German descendants. Early pictures of Baden were similar to that pictured above hence after meeting Baden in the early years he adopted many key points for the "hitler youth"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... -show.html

Baden Powell also set up the first concentration camp. Am not surprised you follow fascists.

Ok, in for a penny in for a pound.

In the 1800's and early 1900's Deep South of the USA there were a group of crazed men who dressed in white shrouds, rounding up "coloured folk" and hung them for nothing more than the colour of their skin.

In the 40's 50's and 60's UK their were people that used to find it great fun to go out "bashing" people for nothing more than their sexual orientation.

During the British conquering of the globe during the 1800's our army's (mainly foot soldiers) used to kill the "men of age", enslave the younger men into our army and rape the women.


So, after quoting only 3 quite recent historical facts you will take from that that I am a homophobic, racist who like to rape women.

If that's what makes you tick the fine but your making yourself look rather silly as most people would understand that quoting historical events does not mean that you agree with them and those that remember what's happened in the past are far less likely to allow the negatives to be repeated.

Your mind may think that the Jewish people want nothing more than the whole issue about what happened during the war to be forgotten but that couldn't be further from the truth. Not because they want people to feel sorry for them but because they understand that history NEEDS to remember the bad to make sure it never again happens.

You aren't quoting facts, you are attempting o build an argument that Hitler was fine until he went wrong. As ooermissus has pointed out, this is ridiculous. Hitler introduced his first racial laws in 1934, less than a year after coming to power, banning Jews from professions, university and removing their citizen rights. I probably haven't remembered it perfectly but go check it out on Wikipedia.

I am sure Jews are craving for a spokesperson like you, a Hitler apologist.

Frank the tank

This has gone off on one for sure, I've read some of it and may I say

The experiments carried out on the jews, twins mentally ill etc in various concentration camps ( A British invention) were of very little scientific value and the work was debunked by the medical/scientific world.

VTech

Firstly, I am not and never would refer to the work done in concentration camps, again, even suggesting that is offensive.
No one can deny the money invested into the medical activity of 1930/40's Germany gave huge advances in the medical world.
Secondly, @nathancon, I stand by the wording I used about people (including hitler) being born good. As you have just written, he introduced racial laws in 1934 so at that point he was bad, together with the many other times he did bad things making him bad.
Do you think he was born that way ?

People do good and bad, hitler chose to do vastly more bad than good, I guess good aimed at his German people or those who he needed support from and bad to those he apposed.

Just because I have made statements based on fact doesnt mean I agree with what happened guys.

pliptrot

Hitler was never good. he was a hateful, dangerous megalomaniac who came to power through hate-filled speeches and continued with utter contempt for all around. He would have remained a bore in a bar if the German people had been engaged in politics at the time he started to focus the energies of the most unpleasant members of German society. He started off with ugly views, which he espoused to his end. It is a strange and pathetic person who can find any good in anything he was, stood for, or did.

daviesee

Where is Godwin's Law hiding when it is needed most?

MaxwellBygraves

Good old Bikeradar. From the death of Thatcher to Hitler apologism in just 10 pages!

Frank the tank

VTech wrote:

Firstly, I am not and never would refer to the work done in concentration camps, again, even suggesting that is offensive.
No one can deny the money invested into the medical activity of 1930/40's Germany gave huge advances in the medical world.
Secondly, @nathancon, I stand by the wording I used about people (including hitler) being born good. As you have just written, he introduced racial laws in 1934 so at that point he was bad, together with the many other times he did bad things making him bad.
Do you think he was born that way ?

People do good and bad, hitler chose to do vastly more bad than good, I guess good aimed at his German people or those who he needed support from and bad to those he apposed.

Just because I have made statements based on fact doesnt mean I agree with what happened guys.

Just to play devils advocate. Hitler only became/did bad because the Germans LOST WW2. Victors write the history books.

ooermissus

Frank the tank wrote:

Just to play devils advocate. Hitler only became/did bad because the Germans LOST WW2. Victors write the history books.

Stalin may be a good counterexample. Won the second world war. Died at the peak of his powers. But was disowned by his successors almost as soon as he died and now remembered as a monster responsible for millions of deaths.

nathancom

VTech wrote:

No one can deny the money invested into the medical activity of 1930/40's Germany gave huge advances in the medical world.

Cite some of these advances please, I am yet to hear of them outside of some minor bits of pieces from Mengele's work.

VTech wrote:

Secondly, @nathancon, I stand by the wording I used about people (including hitler) being born good. As you have just written, he introduced racial laws in 1934 so at that point he was bad, together with the many other times he did bad things making him bad.
Do you think he was born that way ?

People do good and bad, hitler chose to do vastly more bad than good, I guess good aimed at his German people or those who he needed support from and bad to those he apposed.

What is this tosh? So Stalin kills 30 million people but also pats a young child on its head so he gets lots of marks in the bad column and a couple in the good column? What is this, some sort of gameshow where you win a star prize for being really bad? He wrote Mein Kampf whilst in jail for the failed Munich Putsch so I guess we can safely say he was a nasty racist back then as well, still he was nice to Eva Braun at the end so he wasn't all bad even after killing 6 million Jews.

I would call you a tw@ but then you would no doubt refer to some minor incident where you displayed non tw@tish capabilities and then everyone would suddenly be confusedly asking themselves "Is he a tw@, or isn't he?"

nathancom

MaxwellBygraves wrote:

Good old Bikeradar. From the death of Thatcher to Hitler apologism in just 10 pages!

I am not sure it is such a huge leap...

VTech

Nath, your being laughed at my friend

nathancom

VTech wrote:

Nath, your being laughed at my friend

Why not go and invest some more money in wine or whatever you do with all your wads of cash, while pretending to talk to the guy from Cervelo when he is downstairs on a different continent.

VTech

nathancom wrote:

VTech wrote:

Nath, your being laughed at my friend

Why not go and invest some more money in wine or whatever you do with all your wads of cash, while pretending to talk to the guy from Cervelo when he is downstairs on a different continent.

That's a very childish response, similar to that of a child in a playground.

Cleat Eastwood

I think all Vtech is suggesting is that as a human being born into this world hitler would have been as innocent as the next infant but at some point allowed his 'nature' to become corrupted - its interesting because i've recently had light shed on fact that morality and history are intricately bound to the degree that I can see that Vtech and his 'accusers' are actually arguing for the sanctity of our humanity. But since history is believed to be immutable it's probably hard for others to see.


My take on is that at some point a jew refused to lend him his pencil sharpener in art class and he held it against them ever since.

VTech

Cleat Eastwood wrote:

I think all Vtech is suggesting is that as a human being born into this world hitler would have been as innocent as the next infant but at some point allowed his 'nature' to become corrupted - its interesting because i've recently had light shed on fact that morality and history are intricately bound to the degree that I can see that Vtech and his 'accusers' are actually arguing for the sanctity of our humanity. But since history is believed to be immutable it's probably hard for others to see.


My take on is that at some point a jew refused to lend him his pencil sharpener in art class and he held it against them ever since.

Exactly ! (Well maybe not the pencil)

I refuse to believe people are born bad. I that is true what hope is here for us ?
I have never even suggested I agreed with hitler in this or any post and never would. I stated fact by history which of course by its nature could have been corrupted but as its written, hitler out huge resources and funding into infrastructure, dropping unemployment from 6 million to 1 million and investing in one of the best health programmes ever seen on earth including the first ever anti smoking campaign, something Europe and USA didnt manage until the late 80's !!!

So or them reasons he did a lot of good.

Now for the bad, well, the page isn't long enough and my fingers would hurt but the point is, he was a bad man. He did bad things but forgetting them isn't the right thing to do and to suggest that all he ever did was evil is a lie.
The problem with lying about bad people is that the truth gets distorted and others then never believe what really did happen.

ooermissus

VTech wrote:

He was a good man, he was loved, not just by his people but other countries.

Do you still contend that Hitler was a 'good man' in his early years ruling Germany?

VTech

ooermissus wrote:

VTech wrote:

He was a good man, he was loved, not just by his people but other countries.

Do you still contend that Hitler was a 'good man' in his early years ruling Germany?

Well, in what part are you trying to argue ?

Ill try an assist you as I know it's been difficult.

He was a good man - he implemented many things that helped many people. This was good.

He was loved - his people viewed him as many in the UK viewed Churchill.

Other countries loved him - maybe a little strong but the British, USA and most of Europe thought highly of him at first. He met many British an American dignitaries of the time.


So, bring on the next serve, it's 2 sets to love and I'm up 5 games to zero in the third at 40-0

nathancom

No you are talking out your backside like normal.

cornerblock

New balls please

VTech

nathancom wrote:

No you are talking out your backside like normal.

Prove it.
I've do e as asked, provided proof etc and your being laughed at.
I'm trying to help you, you believe hitler was born evil and that he never did good. You have asked me to prove otherwise which I did but the challenge was childish as you asked me to vilify one of histories worst killers.

nathancom

I don't really want to engage in this conversation when generations of my family and families of friends were wiped out by the Nazis. You make stuff up and then try and parade it as fact...just like your photo claiming to prove you were in USA which turned out to be from last year. Why would anyone believe anything you post especially without citations.