Thatcher is Dead

schweiz

No doubt that'll please one or two of you on here! :roll:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22067155

usedtobefast

I think it's wrong that anybody should feel good that a person has died. What I would have felt a lot better about was if the Thatcher government and successive governments hadn't placed as much emphasis on placing the UK economy in the hands of the financial services - the whole population can't and doesn't want to work in the City of London - the public sector oh and also prevented the sale of some of our national assets such as Cadbury.

CambsNewbie

usedtobefast wrote:

I think it's wrong that anybody should feel good that a person has died. What I would have felt a lot better about was if the Thatcher government and successive governments hadn't placed as much emphasis on placing the UK economy in the hands of the financial services - the whole population can't and doesn't want to work in the City of London - the public sector oh and also prevented the sale of some of our national assets such as Cadbury.

Cadbury was sold under the watch of that champion of the people Gordon Brown (the man who got rid of the 10ptax rate)...

Whatever you think of her politics, it's someone mother and grandmother who has died.

Frank the tank

Surprise surprise, I'm not going to cry any crocodile tears at her death.

Crapaud

So this is what social networks are for. I've always wondered.

john-e-big-guns

Frank the tank wrote:

Surprise surprise, I'm not going to cry any crocodile tears at her death.

I don't think you'll be alone in your neck of the woods Frank

natrix

Earlier today Margaret Thatcher was admitted to hospital, she was not expected to live - her condition was described as satisfactory..........

rapid uphill

I used to work for cadbury, it was a cracking job. i spent most of the time playing hide and seek.

john-e-big-guns

That's a shame..I thought she was brilliant in "Spitt'in Image"

dynamicbrick

Brace yourselves for hyperbole, myth, outright lies, and the opening of old wounds on both sides as the media tie themselves in knots over her 18 years in office which ended 23 years ago.

Me, I'm 37, I'm a product of the Thatcher era. The job I'm in, the money I earn - direct consequence of her policies. I suspect most here will be the same, although many won't admit it. Like or not, she shaped the destiny and politics of Blighty, and therefore all of us, for years to come.

Her biggest legacy, in my opinion, is that she was so divisive that every PM we've had since has gone out of his way to be unremarkable, neutral, and completely forgettable; even the hatred for Blair only really began when he left office. It'll be two generations or more before we have another leader prepared to a) have an opinion, b) be open about that opinion, and c) stick to that opinion in even the face of public criticism. Perhaps that's why we're in the mess we're in at the moment - post-Thatcher, nobody is prepared to polarise opinion, or act decisively for what they believe in.

Anyway, Thatcher was not the real power - Willie Whitelaw was really who made it happen; The Iron Lady's mailed fist. When he retired at the end of '87 it started to unravel for Thatcher. Without him ensuring consensus of support, and moderating Thatcher's own rather extreme views on things, it would have ended after 4 years.

MaxwellBygraves

No 'celebrating' here but I'm certainly not sad to see her go. No state funeral.

rick_chasey

Doesn't get a state funeral. Gets a funeral "with honours" which is a rung below apparently.

Although cost is split between gov't and the Thatcher private estate.

dynamicbrick

To be honest, she's rather more deserving than the previous recipient of state funeral.

Frank the tank

Rick Chasey wrote:

Doesn't get a state funeral. Gets a funeral "with honours" which is a rung below apparently.

Although cost is split between gov't and the Thatcher private estate.

So in these times of austerity for us mere mortals I'm expected to stump up toward the cost of a multi-millionaires funeral.
I'd sooner my tax pound went to the NHS, thank you.

VTech

I think its one of the most outrageous things a human can do when a death brings celebration.
She was a great leader, we may not agree with all she did but she didnt lie !!!!!
She always said what she planned to do, she was voted in and she did as she said.
Blame voters maybe but not the Iron Lady.

iainment

VTech wrote:

I think its one of the most outrageous things a human can do when a death brings celebration.
She was a great leader, we may not agree with all she did but she didnt lie !!!!!
She always said what she planned to do, she was voted in and she did as she said.
Blame voters maybe but not the Iron Lady.

You don't know what you're talking about.
She was not a great leader, great leaders unite countries don't create huge schisms.
She lied whenever it suited - don't forget she was a politician in the thrall of Bell, Ingram and the other spin doctors.
She never won a majority vote - the highest she ever got I think was 42% of those who voted. So it wasn't the majority's fault.

Cleat Eastwood

dynamicbrick wrote:

To be honest, she's rather more deserving than the previous recipient of state funeral.

She doesnt even deserve a bin bag stuffed in skip.

Frank the tank

VTech wrote:

I think its one of the most outrageous things a human can do when a death brings celebration.
She was a great leader, we may not agree with all she did but she didnt lie !!!!!
She always said what she planned to do, she was voted in and she did as she said.
Blame voters maybe but not the Iron Lady.

SHE DIDN'T LIE......................................She's the first politician that hasn't then.

MaxwellBygraves

Article in the Guardian on misapplied death etiquette here.

Exactly the same is true of Thatcher. There's something distinctively creepy - in a Roman sort of way - about this mandated ritual that our political leaders must be heralded and consecrated as saints upon death. This is accomplished by this baseless moral precept that it is gauche or worse to balance the gushing praise for them upon death with valid criticisms. There is absolutely nothing wrong with loathing Margaret Thatcher or any other person with political influence and power based upon perceived bad acts, and that doesn't change simply because they die. If anything, it becomes more compelling to commemorate those bad acts upon death as the only antidote against a society erecting a false and jingoistically self-serving history.

VTech

MaxwellBygraves wrote:

Article in the Guardian on misapplied death etiquette here.

Exactly the same is true of Thatcher. There's something distinctively creepy - in a Roman sort of way - about this mandated ritual that our political leaders must be heralded and consecrated as saints upon death. This is accomplished by this baseless moral precept that it is gauche or worse to balance the gushing praise for them upon death with valid criticisms. There is absolutely nothing wrong with loathing Margaret Thatcher or any other person with political influence and power based upon perceived bad acts, and that doesn't change simply because they die. If anything, it becomes more compelling to commemorate those bad acts upon death as the only antidote against a society erecting a false and jingoistically self-serving history.

In part I agree, we shouldnt forget bad acts from people upon death, we just shouldnt mock them.
It goes against humanity.

Cleat Eastwood

MaxwellBygraves wrote:

Article in the Guardian on misapplied death etiquette here.

Exactly the same is true of Thatcher. There's something distinctively creepy - in a Roman sort of way - about this mandated ritual that our political leaders must be heralded and consecrated as saints upon death. This is accomplished by this baseless moral precept that it is gauche or worse to balance the gushing praise for them upon death with valid criticisms. There is absolutely nothing wrong with loathing Margaret Thatcher or any other person with political influence and power based upon perceived bad acts, and that doesn't change simply because they die. If anything, it becomes more compelling to commemorate those bad acts upon death as the only antidote against a society erecting a false and jingoistically self-serving history.

From that article:

"Whatever else may be true of her, Thatcher engaged in incredibly consequential acts that affected millions of people around the world. She played a key role not only in bringing about the first Gulf War but also using her influence to publicly advocate for the 2003 attack on Iraq. She denounced Nelson Mandela and his ANC as "terrorists", something even David Cameron ultimately admitted was wrong. She was a steadfast friend to brutal tyrants such as Augusto Pinochet, Saddam Hussein and Indonesian dictator General Suharto ("One of our very best and most valuable friends"). And as my Guardian colleague Seumas Milne detailed last year, "across Britain Thatcher is still hated for the damage she inflicted – and for her political legacy of rampant inequality and greed, privatisation and social breakdown."

She wont be missed

ooermissus

dynamicbrick wrote:

To be honest, she's rather more deserving than the previous recipient of state funeral.

Churchill?

Yellow Peril

iainment wrote:

VTech wrote:

I think its one of the most outrageous things a human can do when a death brings celebration.
She was a great leader, we may not agree with all she did but she didnt lie !!!!!
She always said what she planned to do, she was voted in and she did as she said.
Blame voters maybe but not the Iron Lady.

You don't know what you're talking about.
She was not a great leader, great leaders unite countries don't create huge schisms.
She lied whenever it suited - don't forget she was a politician in the thrall of Bell, Ingram and the other spin doctors.
She never won a majority vote - the highest she ever got I think was 42% of those who voted. So it wasn't the majority's fault.

When was the last time a UK leader got in with more than 50% of votes cast? I don't think VTech blamed the majority he just said blame voters.

VTech

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/margaret-thatc ... ml#T1Bgc21

Another ex workforce expecting a free ride.
We didnt make them strike, they wanted more, the sales couldnt justify the extra wages they wanted and it went pear shaped for them.
Then a lifetime of bitterness and anger.

The real people suffering are those these days who have lost their jobs through the recession, those who simply wanted to go to work and do a hard days graft.
THEY are the ones to feel for, not the ex miners who wanted to strike.

ballysmate

[
[

From that article:

"

She played a key role not only in bringing about the first Gulf War but also using her influence to publicly advocate for the 2003 attack on Iraq

.

She was a steadfast friend to brutal tyrants such as Augusto Pinochet, Saddam Hussein

quote]

Talk about having your cake and eating it!
Wanting to wage war on Saddam (Twice) And being his steadfast friend? Come on?

dynamicbrick

ooermissus wrote:

dynamicbrick wrote:

To be honest, she's rather more deserving than the previous recipient of state funeral.

Churchill?

God no, Churchill was, and remains, the greatest Englishman ever to have graced this plane of existence.

Last recipient of a state funeral was the awful woman who married into the limited German gene-pool.

dynamicbrick

Ballysmate wrote:

[
[

From that article:

"

She played a key role not only in bringing about the first Gulf War but also using her influence to publicly advocate for the 2003 attack on Iraq

.

She was a steadfast friend to brutal tyrants such as Augusto Pinochet, Saddam Hussein

quote]

Talk about having your cake and eating it!
Wanting to wage war on Saddam (Twice) And being his steadfast friend? Come on?

I was under the distinct impression that the first Gulf War was brought about by Saddam Hussein invading Kuwait.

dynamicbrick

Cleat Eastwood wrote:

dynamicbrick wrote:

To be honest, she's rather more deserving than the previous recipient of state funeral.

She doesnt even deserve a bin bag stuffed in skip.

Nor did the previous recipient.

VTech

I take it from that you are anti royalty ? The greatest historic sector of Britain left in existence today.

Cleat Eastwood

VTech wrote:

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/margaret-thatcher-dies-criticism-of-her-policies-132906942.html#T1Bgc21

Another ex workforce expecting a free ride.
We didnt make them strike, they wanted more, the sales couldnt justify the extra wages they wanted and it went pear shaped for them.
Then a lifetime of bitterness and anger.

The real people suffering are those these days who have lost their jobs through the recession, those who simply wanted to go to work and do a hard days graft.
THEY are the ones to feel for, not the ex miners who wanted to strike.

Did you read the article, though - its not as you say at all - its a collection of responses to her death; from an ex miner, 70 years of age, ken livingstone and a woman from the stop the war coalition.

The ex miner said "Our children have got no jobs and the community is full of problems. There's no work and no money and it's very sad the legacy she has left behind.

"She absolutely hated working people and I have got very bitter memories of what she did. She turned all the nation against us and the violence that was meted out on us was terrible.

"I would say to those people who want to mourn her that they're lucky she did not treat them like she treated us."

He's in no way asking for a 'free ride'

Mr Livingstone said: "Of course she was popular, she was offering people their homes at a cut price. But she didn't build any houses.

"She created today's housing crisis, she produced the banking crisis, she created the benefits crisis. It was her government that started putting people on incapacity benefits rather than register them as unemployed because the Britain she inherited was broadly at full employment.

"She decided when she wrote off our manufacturing industry that she could live with two or three million unemployed and the legacy of that, the benefits bill that we are still struggling with today.

"In actual fact, every real problem we face today is the legacy of the fact she was fundamentally wrong."

He also said that it was to Tony Blair's "shame" that he "broadly carried on" most of her policies."

Mr_Cellophane

dynamicbrick wrote:

ooermissus wrote:

dynamicbrick wrote:

To be honest, she's rather more deserving than the previous recipient of state funeral.

Churchill?

God no, Churchill was, and remains, the greatest Englishman ever to have graced this plane of existence.

Last recipient of a state funeral was the awful woman who married into the limited German gene-pool.

Neither HRH Queen Mother or Diana Princess of Wales had a state funeral. So you must mean Queen Victoria. :?