Thatcher is Dead
Comments
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mididoctors wrote:which is what I think happened with pinochet who bought favour during the falklands war?... the odd one out is gorbochev who wasn't identified as the transition figure he really was.
in a way she was very loyal to these characters and never thought to betray them for political gain or expediency. IE her loyalty to pinochet is some of the best proof of her much vaunted integrity... which is kinda of ironic.
I think in someways she was the conviction politician the fanbois paint her but more at the inter-personnel level than the ideological one, she disowned monetarism when it all went to f88k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuCt_ZdG18U
That's a GREAT clip on monetarism. Also, I think you're dead right on the personal loyalty point - she thought she could do business with Gorbachev the first time she met him and never wavered from that.
Few governments emerge on the right side of all of their foreign policy decisions though - e.g. Major (Bosnia), Clinton (Rwanda) to name two.0 -
I see George W and George Senior can't make the funeral?
Jim davidson didn't get an invite"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
ooermissus wrote:
Few governments emerge on the right side of all of their foreign policy decisions though - e.g. Major (Bosnia), Clinton (Rwanda) to name two.
I guess
she did surprisingly well for an adventurer..... it worked for her. she got lucky in the falklands
the failings in rwanda and bosnia are in retrospect, at the time there was little(some) domestic fallout over these issues
and thatchers support for pinochet and gorby never really harmed her fatally at the time more her legacy I think."If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
I think it was pretty obvious at the time that Major's government had screwed up in a shameful manner in Bosnia, which made Blair eager to intervene immediately in Sierra Leone, which emboldened him to invade Afghanistan, which...
Sometimes I think foreign policy is a game of finding as many different ways to and reasons for f***ing up.0 -
nweststeyn wrote:, she illegally ordered the sinking of a vessel resulting in the deaths of over 300 people (I hope Argentina follow through with their threat of filing a lawsuit regarding this war crime) and she befriended dictators who quite clearly caused death and suffering to countless civilians.
Politics is not more important than life. I believe that she felt it was. Thatcher has none of my respect just because she is dead. I am neither glad or saddened that she is gone - what her death has done is allow people an opportunity to reflect on the actions of what I believe to be a despicable human being.
It's strange how the inquiry held by the Argentinian military found the sinking "a legal act of war". Further the Captain of the Belgrano, Hector Bonzo has stated that he was temporarily sailing west and he had orders to engage any British vessels within range of his armaments.
Hindsight is wonderful as are ivory towers.“Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring”
Desmond Tutu0 -
ooermissus wrote:I think it was pretty obvious at the time that Major's government had screwed up in a shameful manner in Bosnia, which made Blair eager to intervene immediately in Sierra Leone, which emboldened him to invade Afghanistan, which...
Sometimes I think foreign policy is a game of finding as many different ways to and reasons for f***ing up.
adventurism is fraught with danger
Blair is a shocker... I reckon he fits the war crime jacket TBH
Thatcher is a slightly sad story because she helped usher in this world she probably wouldn't approve of herself, mad self delusion."If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
"That's it! You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm going to clown college! " - Homer0 -
Courtesy of (presumably atheist) anarchists.0 -
Brighton
"That's it! You people have stood in my way long enough. I'm going to clown college! " - Homer0 -
Forgetting for a minute that it happened when Labour had been in charge for 10 years or so :roll: The financial crisis only speeded up the eventual car crash economic policy of Labours unaffordable policies. Busts are balanced by booms over time, but overspending by economically illiterate lefties is forever (well until they run out of money).johnfinch wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:
We may well end up learning the hard way again. As one M. Thatcher put it, "The problem with socialism is that eventually they run out of other people's money". Groundhog Day is at least a couple of years away thankfully.Ballysmate wrote:
As one J. Finch put it "the problem with neo-liberalism is that eventually you end up bailing out a load of champagne-swilling, cocaine-snorting city boys to the tune of hundreds of billions of pounds."
Like I said before, in the late 1970's Dennis Healey had to go to the IMF for a bail out and in 2010 Labour left behind a legacy of debt of epic proportions. There's a pattern there..."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Slowmart wrote:nweststeyn wrote:, she illegally ordered the sinking of a vessel resulting in the deaths of over 300 people (I hope Argentina follow through with their threat of filing a lawsuit regarding this war crime) and she befriended dictators who quite clearly caused death and suffering to countless civilians.
It's strange how the inquiry held by the Argentinian military found the sinking "a legal act of war". Further the Captain of the Belgrano, Hector Bonzo has stated that he was temporarily sailing west and he had orders to engage any British vessels within range of his armaments.
Hindsight is wonderful as are ivory towers.
This is utterly bizarre.
Argentina invade the Falklands
We sink an ancient former WW2 US Cruiser which, let's be honest, would have made mincemeat of the lightweight vessels in the fleet at that time.
Everyone declares it a war crime.
Sorry, we're at war (not started by us). The vessel in question was heading in the direction of the fleet. It was a bloody cruiser, not a liner, hospital ship, or anything else. Fucking war crime indeed. So what about the Conveyor, Sheffield, Sir Galahad, and so on? Should we sue Argentina because the Conveyor wasn't armed?
The weird modern view that you can fight a war without anyone getting hurt.
Even weirder that you hope Argentina instigate legal proceedings against your country over a vessel sunk in war instigated by them 30 years ago, just because you hate Thatcher.0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:Forgetting for a minute that it happened when Labour had been in charge for 10 years or so :roll:
Did I say that Labour should be absolved from blame? Er, no I didn't. I was saying it was the system that both Labour and the Tories supported that has left us in this situation. Private debt is crippling our economy and as this colossal debt bubble was building up, the 2 main political parties should have acted to regulate irresponsible lending. As it is, the only one of the big 3 parties to have spotted the danger and commit to regulating lenders in 2001 and 2005 manifestos were the Liberal Democrats.Stevo 666 wrote:The financial crisis only speeded up the eventual car crash economic policy of Labours unaffordable policies. Busts are balanced by booms over time, but overspending by economically illiterate lefties is forever (well until they run out of money).
Would that be the Labour party whose spending was LOWER than the Tories as a % of GDP?
(NB this does not take into account PFI/PPP schemes which will be paying for in the future. And which were also supported by the Tories.)Stevo 666 wrote:Like I said before, in the late 1970's Dennis Healey had to go to the IMF for a bail out and in 2010 Labour left behind a legacy of debt of epic proportions. There's a pattern there...
Yes, it says that Labour have been just as incompetent as the Tories but kept getting caught out in the wrong place at the wrong time. Meanwhile, the Tories are in opposition telling us about Labour's incompetence for the failure of the same policies that they supported.
BTW, I don't need you to tell me about Labour's economic record. As you might have guessed from above, I don't actually vote for them. I just think it's a bit rich for Conservative supporters to keep having a go at Labour for the failure of the same policies we would have seen had the Tories got into power in 2001 and/or 2005.0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:The financial crisis only speeded up the eventual car crash economic policy of Labours unaffordable policies.
Surely you can't really believe that?0 -
I would love to see the dimwits who drew them images get punished.
What a waste of an obviously decent talent and for what ?
Total idiocy. But like so many people today, focusing skills on the wrong subject then blaming the world for their failings. If I could draw like that I would use it to make a living, just like I chose with a computer.
Im not sure whats worse, having a skill and not using it to its ability or just not wanting to work.Living MY dream.0 -
So just by looking at those paintings you can tell the artists are unemployed and blaming the world for their failings?? :roll:VTech wrote:I would love to see the dimwits who drew them images get punished.
What a waste of an obviously decent talent and for what ?
Total idiocy. But like so many people today, focusing skills on the wrong subject then blaming the world for their failings. If I could draw like that I would use it to make a living, just like I chose with a computer.
Im not sure whats worse, having a skill and not using it to its ability or just not wanting to work.
News flash..... Not everyone with a dislike for Thatcher is on benefits.Pinno, מלך אידיוט וחרא מכונאי0 -
They are if you get all your knowledge of the world from The Sun, like Vtech.seanoconn wrote:
So just by looking at those paintings you can tell the artists are unemployed and blaming the world for their failings?? :roll:VTech wrote:I would love to see the dimwits who drew them images get punished.
What a waste of an obviously decent talent and for what ?
Total idiocy. But like so many people today, focusing skills on the wrong subject then blaming the world for their failings. If I could draw like that I would use it to make a living, just like I chose with a computer.
Im not sure whats worse, having a skill and not using it to its ability or just not wanting to work.
News flash..... Not everyone with a dislike for Thatcher is on benefits.0 -
So just by looking at those paintings you can tell the artists are unemployed and blaming the world for their failings?? :roll:
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Nah, but I would bet none of them were alive when Thatcher was in power . . .
Wilier Izoard XP0 -
:?
I don't like graffiti.VTech wrote:I would love to see the dimwits who drew them images get punished.
What a waste of an obviously decent talent and for what ?
Total idiocy. But like so many people today, focusing skills on the wrong subject then blaming the world for their failings. If I could draw like that I would use it to make a living, just like I chose with a computer.
Im not sure whats worse, having a skill and not using it to its ability or just not wanting to work.
I would think Banksy might take issue as would the fine art community with your view.Tail end Charlie
The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.0 -
nathancom wrote:
They are if you get all your knowledge of the world from The Sun, like Vtech.seanoconn wrote:
So just by looking at those paintings you can tell the artists are unemployed and blaming the world for their failings?? :roll:VTech wrote:I would love to see the dimwits who drew them images get punished.
What a waste of an obviously decent talent and for what ?
Total idiocy. But like so many people today, focusing skills on the wrong subject then blaming the world for their failings. If I could draw like that I would use it to make a living, just like I chose with a computer.
Im not sure whats worse, having a skill and not using it to its ability or just not wanting to work.
News flash..... Not everyone with a dislike for Thatcher is on benefits.
I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles0 -
Frank the tank wrote::?
I don't like graffiti.VTech wrote:I would love to see the dimwits who drew them images get punished.
What a waste of an obviously decent talent and for what ?
Total idiocy. But like so many people today, focusing skills on the wrong subject then blaming the world for their failings. If I could draw like that I would use it to make a living, just like I chose with a computer.
Im not sure whats worse, having a skill and not using it to its ability or just not wanting to work.
I would think Banksy might take issue as would the fine art community with your view.
Don't like graffiti either. Never understood how some graffiti is tolerated and other graffiti is classed as Criminal Damage.
All those people who think it art, get someone to come and paint a masterpiece on the front of your house.0 -
I'd allow that on my house as long as it was of an albino man seeking his albino dog in a snow drift.Ballysmate wrote:Frank the tank wrote::?
I don't like graffiti.VTech wrote:I would love to see the dimwits who drew them images get punished.
What a waste of an obviously decent talent and for what ?
Total idiocy. But like so many people today, focusing skills on the wrong subject then blaming the world for their failings. If I could draw like that I would use it to make a living, just like I chose with a computer.
Im not sure whats worse, having a skill and not using it to its ability or just not wanting to work.
I would think Banksy might take issue as would the fine art community with your view.
Don't like graffiti either. Never understood how some graffiti is tolerated and other graffiti is classed as Criminal Damage.
All those people who think it art, get someone to come and paint a masterpiece on the front of your house. Tail end Charlie
The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.0 -
The last Labour governemnt was spending more than it was earning even when the boom was in full swing. And its spending plans were on the increase. It was only going to end one way regardless of the economic cycle, the difference was timing only.ooermissus wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:The financial crisis only speeded up the eventual car crash economic policy of Labours unaffordable policies.
Surely you can't really believe that?
Surely you don't believe the entire woes of this country are down to a few nasty bankers?"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
So are you a Lib Dem then? Or just having a moan about both main parties without having a workable alternative?johnfinch wrote:Did I say that Labour should be absolved from blame? Er, no I didn't. I was saying it was the system that both Labour and the Tories supported that has left us in this situation. Private debt is crippling our economy and as this colossal debt bubble was building up, the 2 main political parties should have acted to regulate irresponsible lending. As it is, the only one of the big 3 parties to have spotted the danger and commit to regulating lenders in 2001 and 2005 manifestos were the Liberal Democrats."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
What else can you do with no workable alternative?Stevo 666 wrote:
So are you a Lib Dem then? Or just having a moan about both main parties without having a workable alternative?johnfinch wrote:Did I say that Labour should be absolved from blame? Er, no I didn't. I was saying it was the system that both Labour and the Tories supported that has left us in this situation. Private debt is crippling our economy and as this colossal debt bubble was building up, the 2 main political parties should have acted to regulate irresponsible lending. As it is, the only one of the big 3 parties to have spotted the danger and commit to regulating lenders in 2001 and 2005 manifestos were the Liberal Democrats.Pinno, מלך אידיוט וחרא מכונאי0 -
Stevo 666 wrote:
So are you a Lib Dem then? Or just having a moan about both main parties without having a workable alternative?johnfinch wrote:Did I say that Labour should be absolved from blame? Er, no I didn't. I was saying it was the system that both Labour and the Tories supported that has left us in this situation. Private debt is crippling our economy and as this colossal debt bubble was building up, the 2 main political parties should have acted to regulate irresponsible lending. As it is, the only one of the big 3 parties to have spotted the danger and commit to regulating lenders in 2001 and 2005 manifestos were the Liberal Democrats.
In principle I'm a left-winger (and by that, I mean a genuine one, not someone who wants a) Stalinism or b) a return to the 1970s). In reality, I'm a floating voter. We live in a first past the vote system. My vote isn't going to change anything, so I'll go for whichever one of the smaller parties has a chance of pulling off a decent result, as long as their principles are vaguely in line with mine, even if I don't agree with many of the details. In 2005 I voted Lib Dem purely on the fact that their manifesto was the only one to pledge to rein in irresponsible lending, which I thought was going to be a disaster (and if you want to buy one of my crystal balls I'm sure we can negotiate a fair price )
As for an alternative in the foreseeable future, I'd like to see the UK go in the direction of one of the northern European-style economies - competitive in the world markets yet with a decent social security net, pensions, etc. Politically I'd like to see proportional representation and greater use of referenda like in Switzerland and as I've stated elsewhere on this thread (or one of the others), I do believe that coalition government is better than what we usually have in this country, which is power concentrated in the hands of one party despite the fact that most people vote against that party.0 -
seanoconn wrote:
So just by looking at those paintings you can tell the artists are unemployed and blaming the world for their failings?? :roll:VTech wrote:I would love to see the dimwits who drew them images get punished.
What a waste of an obviously decent talent and for what ?
Total idiocy. But like so many people today, focusing skills on the wrong subject then blaming the world for their failings. If I could draw like that I would use it to make a living, just like I chose with a computer.
Im not sure whats worse, having a skill and not using it to its ability or just not wanting to work.
News flash..... Not everyone with a dislike for Thatcher is on benefits.
As always, taking what I have written and putting a spin on it.
I never once said unemployed, how or why would I ? I dont know who did them.
I was referring to the use of an obvious talent and wasting that talent.
I have a banksy so im not anti graffiti.Living MY dream.0 -
VTech wrote:I have a banksy so im not anti graffiti.
LOL.Stevo 666 wrote:
The last Labour governemnt was spending more than it was earning even when the boom was in full swing. And its spending plans were on the increase. It was only going to end one way regardless of the economic cycle, the difference was timing only.ooermissus wrote:Stevo 666 wrote:The financial crisis only speeded up the eventual car crash economic policy of Labours unaffordable policies.
Surely you can't really believe that?
Surely you don't believe the entire woes of this country are down to a few nasty bankers?
No dispute that it would have been better to hit the worst financial crisis in generations in better fiscal shape, but anyone who believes this mess has largely national causes is deluded.0 -
ooermissus wrote:VTech wrote:I have a banksy so im not anti graffiti.
LOL.
I realised after that my reply was funny, it was simply meant in that I find graffiti nice to look at in certain circumstances.Living MY dream.0 -
As always, trying to duck out of what you've written. How do you know they're wasting their talent not knowing who the artists are?? Oh I knowVTech wrote:seanoconn wrote:
So just by looking at those paintings you can tell the artists are unemployed and blaming the world for their failings?? :roll:VTech wrote:I would love to see the dimwits who drew them images get punished.
What a waste of an obviously decent talent and for what ?
Total idiocy. But like so many people today, focusing skills on the wrong subject then blaming the world for their failings. If I could draw like that I would use it to make a living, just like I chose with a computer.
Im not sure whats worse, having a skill and not using it to its ability or just not wanting to work.
News flash..... Not everyone with a dislike for Thatcher is on benefits.
As always, taking what I have written and putting a spin on it.
I never once said unemployed, how or why would I ? I dont know who did them.
I was referring to the use of an obvious talent and wasting that talent.
I have a banksy so im not anti graffiti.
Vtech fact of the day. 83% of graffiti artists waste their talent Pinno, מלך אידיוט וחרא מכונאי0 -
Again, labour spin doctors at work
I need only look at the images to see they have a great talent, thats plain to see.
My reference to wasting that talent is that instead of using said talent to earn themselves a living they used it for hatred.
Does that make sense ?
I had a garage built at home a few years back and had a graffiti artist come in and mural the 3 side walls with an F1 collage, it was fantastic and he used his talent to his own good, I applaud such behaviour.
I simply cant say the same about the people who drew the images posted here.Living MY dream.0
