Any Oenophile's here ?

EKIMIKE

wishitwasallflat wrote:

VTech ask yourself why do all your posts tend to end up like this?

According to legend it's because i follow him around with sole aim of venting my anger at him.

It's funny how i don't pop up in any of the 'Road General' or 'Road Beginners' threads that he's started - and according to his profile that's where he posts most. That is because i have and always will only ever really look at Pro Race, Road Buying Advice and Cake Stop on these boards.

So the question is - is VTech following me? (<

---

Obvious trolling, please be kind and feed the troll generously) <---- annotations for VTech, a service delivered by EKIMIKE Obvious-Trolling Solutions.

Yellow Peril

VTech wrote:

No, nothing of the sort and you wont goad me into revealing what in fact can be found with little to no work on google.
Maybe it depends on what you also refer to as substantial ? Does that mean you think I get lafite at £50/bottle ?
If you buy, buy regularly and pay up front you get better deals but having answered your question your next defence is me mentioning money in this reply.

So what do you refer to as substantial? you said in a response to my £2K quote that it could be obtained for "significantly less".

Now without necessarily spilling the beans as to your source how about an indication of your buy price for lafite? It is difficult to give any credence to your advice if you don't expand on it. I might as well start a thread saying "buy gold, take my word for it"...

...or are you just an oxygen thief?

VTech

wishitwasallflat wrote:

MattC59 wrote:

You just can't help yourself, can you Vtech........

I think he could but doesn't want to - either he is the ultimate Troll or he just is (as someone esle pointed out so fabulously) impervious to facts.


VTech ask yourself why do all your posts tend to end up like this? I have never in the four years or so Ive been on this forum seen anyone who post so much about money and material things (other than expensive bikes of course). I can accept it may be unconscious on your part but you are bringing this stuff on yourself.

I would be willing to bet most folk on here are not wealthy and your posting of your lavish consumption is gauranteed to cause offence.

For example - there is no way I could afford to invest in wine I have two young kids and struggle every month to reach the next pay check without increasing my already (almost overwhelming debt) - this is reality for quite a lot of folk. Post about expensive cars you don't drive and all the other consumerism will bring this reaction every time.

Well I've told you this several times before and its obvious you ain't acting on it so - the really intersting question is why am I still bothering? Strangly I feel quite fond of you despite my politics and jealousy of your money and lifestyle. Very intersting for me - pleae keep posting but for goodness sake wise up as to why you get the replies you get.

I am sure your post is totally genuine so I sincerely appologise for any offence I've caused. My intention was never a out money, the strange thing is that on my normal life it doesn't enter the fray outside of the work invironment. Of course during work I can't do anything about it as money is everything.

I never came here with any other intention than to meet some like minded people and talk about bikes. It is clear that there have been some people who took immediate offence at the fact I spent more than the average guy on a first bike but just as some people struggle, I dont feel I should appologise for being able to buy a few trinkets along the way. It is with that initial offence that the whole issue snowballed and I was "trolled EKIMIKE calls it" which in reality is the real offensive thing here and made to look a bit of a monster.
You guys don't know me, you don't really know if I'm self endulgent or a philanthropist or a mix of both but I've never been rude to anyone. I'm not abusive and I've not gone out of my way to intentionally upset anyone.
On the contrary, I've been polite on the whole, I've offered support and helped several people on here.
I have compassion for others which again was a used to cause arguments by the same people.
So, again, I didn't mean to offend anyone. I just wanted to lose a few kilo.

Yellow Peril

VTech wrote:

wishitwasallflat wrote:

MattC59 wrote:

You just can't help yourself, can you Vtech........

I think he could but doesn't want to - either he is the ultimate Troll or he just is (as someone esle pointed out so fabulously) impervious to facts.


VTech ask yourself why do all your posts tend to end up like this? I have never in the four years or so Ive been on this forum seen anyone who post so much about money and material things (other than expensive bikes of course). I can accept it may be unconscious on your part but you are bringing this stuff on yourself.

I would be willing to bet most folk on here are not wealthy and your posting of your lavish consumption is gauranteed to cause offence.

For example - there is no way I could afford to invest in wine I have two young kids and struggle every month to reach the next pay check without increasing my already (almost overwhelming debt) - this is reality for quite a lot of folk. Post about expensive cars you don't drive and all the other consumerism will bring this reaction every time.

Well I've told you this several times before and its obvious you ain't acting on it so - the really intersting question is why am I still bothering? Strangly I feel quite fond of you despite my politics and jealousy of your money and lifestyle. Very intersting for me - pleae keep posting but for goodness sake wise up as to why you get the replies you get.

I am sure your post is totally genuine so I sincerely appologise for any offence I've caused. My intention was never a out money, the strange thing is that on my normal life it doesn't enter the fray outside of the work invironment. Of course during work I can't do anything about it as money is everything.

I never came here with any other intention than to meet some like minded people and talk about bikes. It is clear that there have been some people who took immediate offence at the fact I spent more than the average guy on a first bike but just as some people struggle, I dont feel I should appologise for being able to buy a few trinkets along the way. It is with that initial offence that the whole issue snowballed and I was "trolled EKIMIKE calls it" which in reality is the real offensive thing here and made to look a bit of a monster.
You guys don't know me, you don't really know if I'm self endulgent or a philanthropist or a mix of both but I've never been rude to anyone. I'm not abusive and I've not gone out of my way to intentionally upset anyone.
On the contrary, I've been polite on the whole, I've offered support and helped several people on here.
I have compassion for others which again was a used to cause arguments by the same people.
So, again, I didn't mean to offend anyone. I just wanted to lose a few kilo.

I've no problem with that. I'll happily talk bikes with you, pro racing , amateur racing and I don't mind what you ride (I don't know what you do ride) but if you start showing off (intentionally or otherwise) or showboating or flaunting your affluence, I'll call you a tw@t. You'll thank me for it in the long run.

Right I'm off to polish the gold plated wheel nuts on the Rolls...they're such a bitch aren't they?

VTech

What's gets me though is that double edged sword. A kiss and kick in the same sentence.
Don't take this the wrong way but I'm an honest fella and won't pretend to be a friend to anyone and call them names behind their back so with that in mind (and this is not aimed at you directly) is that I posted about bikes, I was ridiculed for having an expensive. Ole and then with each and every post money was bought into the equation, this was done by the same 4 people over more than 40 posts !!!
Now I've got thick skin so can take it with the best of them but when I bite back after what can only be described as a barrage of attack from a select few and find several others join in the assumption that all I care about is money is nothing short of nonesense. I have many pm's from people who agree with me and I am sure that anyone with common sense can see how this really started.
I will gladly appologise for my ill's but never for the actions of others.

ooermissus

You were given a hard time not for buying an expensive bike, but for not riding it. In the same way, you have a car that you don't drive, wine you don't drink etc. And for starting a thread about how badly you'd been treated because people questioned some of your choices.

And just once, just ONCE, when confronted by a fact that contradicts one of your assertions, it would be great if you could simply acknowledge it (or provide some evidence to support your claim) rather than plastering on another layer of bluster that aims to show that you're right.

bill_gates

I like wine.

In Scotland the neds (read chavs) drink Buckfast. I like it for an occasional tipple when the Chateau Neuf has ran dry and it has as much caffeine as some of the SIS Gels that you likely take on a 50 miler.

I collect it but it usually only sits about in my 'cellar' for about 30 minutes. Never tried it decanted but it has some decent tanins, total whoosh of hollyhocks right up my nose.

EKIMIKE

VTech wrote:

"trolled EKIMIKE calls it" which in reality is the real offensive thing here and made to look a bit of a monster.

Only because I realised very quickly that discussing facts with you is useless. In that case I believe there is reasonable justification for trolling. I know plenty disagree with that though.

My first contention would be that a true oenophilia is not about financial yields. Should it not be about the subjective, not financial, appreciation of wine? This thread would suggest for that it is not although there is a strong likelihood that you are in fact a true oenophile - which begs the question: why didn't you talk about that in this thread?

It amuses me how muddled you are.

VTech

But your asking me to tell you things that relate financially to me, like asking someone about personal finances, it's just not a done thing and I've never been asked that before by anyone other than a financial advisor.
Your I course relating to the post on wine and the cost of purchase but you argue against me with retail and trade valuations but to ki d of take the heat off and without giving the whole game away, I buy with others. We guarantee purchase regardless of production and pay quite a distance in advance. For this we get savings.

You may argue with what I have written but that doesn't make me wrong.
The same applies to many things in life, I have a colleague who has just been offered the LaFerrari which is something g many people would love to be able to get but he buys all models regardless of wether he likes them and keeps them a minimum of 3 months (turning over stock) and so gets great prices, often making +£20k on a car which is something almost all of us will never do (make on a car not make £20k).

EKIMIKE

VTech wrote:

But your asking me to tell you things that relate financially to me[...]

No we don't! We (well , I) don't care about your personal finances.

You willing made this about your personal finances when you changed the subject of this thread in post 3 by pontificating, un-provoked, about your propensity to invest in wine.

You also have a self-identified aim in this thread to 'educate' us (*COUGH*pontificate) about wine investments.

Don't be disingenuous. :roll:

Gabbo

EKIMIKE - good attempt at trolling but you got a lot to learn. Try Soni's thread about weight loss on the training forum. Now that is trolling at it's very finest!

VTech

I do hope you succeed in life, it would be such a waste if you didn't.

EKIMIKE

Gabbo wrote:

EKIMIKE - good attempt at trolling but you got a lot to learn. Try Soni's thread about weight loss on the training forum. Now that is trolling at it's very finest!

I never said I was good. I'm getting the practice in though...

That Soni thread was awesome if I remember correctly. Soni displayed a similar level of comprehension as VTech i believe. He had hilarious theories as to the valuation of Chris Boardman's bike company (he said they were clearly going bust - funny that, they're still making bikes).

danlikesbikes

VTech wrote:

wishitwasallflat wrote:

MattC59 wrote:

You just can't help yourself, can you Vtech........

I think he could but doesn't want to - either he is the ultimate Troll or he just is (as someone esle pointed out so fabulously) impervious to facts.


VTech ask yourself why do all your posts tend to end up like this? I have never in the four years or so Ive been on this forum seen anyone who post so much about money and material things (other than expensive bikes of course). I can accept it may be unconscious on your part but you are bringing this stuff on yourself.

I would be willing to bet most folk on here are not wealthy and your posting of your lavish consumption is gauranteed to cause offence.

For example - there is no way I could afford to invest in wine I have two young kids and struggle every month to reach the next pay check without increasing my already (almost overwhelming debt) - this is reality for quite a lot of folk. Post about expensive cars you don't drive and all the other consumerism will bring this reaction every time.

Well I've told you this several times before and its obvious you ain't acting on it so - the really intersting question is why am I still bothering? Strangly I feel quite fond of you despite my politics and jealousy of your money and lifestyle. Very intersting for me - pleae keep posting but for goodness sake wise up as to why you get the replies you get.

I am sure your post is totally genuine so I sincerely appologise for any offence I've caused. My intention was never a out money, the strange thing is that on my normal life it doesn't enter the fray outside of the work invironment. Of course during work I can't do anything about it as money is everything.

I never came here with any other intention than to meet some like minded people and talk about bikes. It is clear that there have been some people who took immediate offence at the fact I spent more than the average guy on a first bike but just as some people struggle, I dont feel I should appologise for being able to buy a few trinkets along the way. It is with that initial offence that the whole issue snowballed and I was "trolled EKIMIKE calls it" which in reality is the real offensive thing here and made to look a bit of a monster.
You guys don't know me, you don't really know if I'm self endulgent or a philanthropist or a mix of both but I've never been rude to anyone. I'm not abusive and I've not gone out of my way to intentionally upset anyone.
On the contrary, I've been polite on the whole, I've offered support and helped several people on here.
I have compassion for others which again was a used to cause arguments by the same people.
So, again, I didn't mean to offend anyone. I just wanted to lose a few kilo.

Vtec - don't take this the wrong way but you have been rude to others and I have seen you in other posts swearing at other people. As others have said a lot of your posts descend into some sort of anarchy ending up with you saying that you don't go on about money and wealth, but then 1 post later your saying that your not going to apologise for the way you live your life and spend your money.

I don't think your a troll & I see that perhaps in other posts people have been harsh with you and possibly more than needed. But for gods sake give it a rest, I have defended you in other posts as people accuse you of being a troll and yet I see your posts going on and on downwards & downwards in the same spirals of doom and doing your reputation on BR no good at all in my eyes.

I am sure that you are nice chap & I personally don't care about anyone on BR's wealth or lack of it but sometimes it is just bad form to rub ones wealth in other peoples faces. I am also sure that you do not do this with an malice or intent but I can see why others might take some offence at the nature of some of your statements.

I like most of your posts as they are either asking for genuine advice and you tend to get the sort of advice you are looking for which is good that is after all what BR is for. I have also listened to some of the advice that you give and find it spot on as you clearly have knowledge in areas I do not.

ooermissus

VTech wrote:

Your I course relating to the post on wine and the cost of purchase but you argue against me with retail and trade valuations but to ki d of take the heat off and without giving the whole game away, I buy with others. We guarantee purchase regardless of production and pay quite a distance in advance. For this we get savings.

That's completely ludicrous. How can you buy wine far in advance of the en primeur release? You'd be purchasing it before it had even got into the barrel, let alone the bottle. No-one - including the winemaker - would have any idea how much a fair price would be. Surely you're just making stuff up now.

VTech

And with that I rest my case.
Btw, I own wine from napa to be grown in 2015, maybe your lack of wine purchase is similar to my lack of cycling.
The difference is that I realise my knowledge is lacking hence being here and listening to more knowledgable people.

MattC59

ooermissus wrote:

VTech wrote:

Your I course relating to the post on wine and the cost of purchase but you argue against me with retail and trade valuations but to ki d of take the heat off and without giving the whole game away, I buy with others. We guarantee purchase regardless of production and pay quite a distance in advance. For this we get savings.

That's completely ludicrous. How can you buy wine far in advance of the en primeur release? You'd be purchasing it before it had even got into the barrel, let alone the bottle. No-one - including the winemaker - would have any idea how much a fair price would be. Surely you're just making stuff up now.

I suspect you'll fall on your ass with that comment ooermissus.......
:roll:

ooermissus

MattC59 wrote:

ooermissus wrote:

VTech wrote:

Your I course relating to the post on wine and the cost of purchase but you argue against me with retail and trade valuations but to ki d of take the heat off and without giving the whole game away, I buy with others. We guarantee purchase regardless of production and pay quite a distance in advance. For this we get savings.

That's completely ludicrous. How can you buy wine far in advance of the en primeur release? You'd be purchasing it before it had even got into the barrel, let alone the bottle. No-one - including the winemaker - would have any idea how much a fair price would be. Surely you're just making stuff up now.

I suspect you'll fall on your ass with that comment ooermissus.......
:roll:

Seriously? I am prepared to be proved wrong. And I can imagine he has some share in a future Napa harvest, but are we really supposed to believe he has pre-paid on one of the world's most prestigious French wines - a wine where no-one knows even the DATE of release in advance, let along the price (which can vary by a third or more from year to year).

The release each year is treated like a major event - and there's huge amounts of speculation what the price will be. I just can't imagine how Vtech would be able to short circuit that.

(Edit: And by the way - it's not the same thing as these wines being pre-allocated to favored clients by wine merchants - that's not going to give you a fixed price or allow you to pay at well below the price even negociants get, as Vtech claimed.)

EKIMIKE

To be fair i don't doubt that VTech is part of an elitist, exclusive (as in exclusive of us plebs) little buying club that gets favourable rates.

However that makes it even less surprising that he would recommend buying the same wine that he does. If he can get us plebs to buy (at the true market rate of course) then it will pique demand and price, making his little inside deal even more profitable. It's how the rich stay rich.

Typical financial services-style 'on the inside' scumbaggery.

PS I'm also open to the possibility that this is another example of him talking out his rear-end passage.

ooermissus

EKIMIKE wrote:

To be fair i don't doubt that VTech is part of an elitist, exclusive (as in exclusive of us plebs) little buying club that gets favourable rates.

And that might get him a few percent off. But en primeur Lafite was £2200 per half case last year on release, and 30% more on release the year before that. The idea he is not having to pay "anywhere near" [his words] £2000... well I just don't think it happened.

EKIMIKE

And you are probably right.

MattC59

ooermissus wrote:

MattC59 wrote:

ooermissus wrote:

VTech wrote:

Your I course relating to the post on wine and the cost of purchase but you argue against me with retail and trade valuations but to ki d of take the heat off and without giving the whole game away, I buy with others. We guarantee purchase regardless of production and pay quite a distance in advance. For this we get savings.

That's completely ludicrous. How can you buy wine far in advance of the en primeur release? You'd be purchasing it before it had even got into the barrel, let alone the bottle. No-one - including the winemaker - would have any idea how much a fair price would be. Surely you're just making stuff up now.

I suspect you'll fall on your ass with that comment ooermissus.......
:roll:

Seriously? I am prepared to be proved wrong. And I can imagine he has some share in a future Napa harvest, but are we really supposed to believe he has pre-paid on one of the world's most prestigious French wines - a wine where no-one knows even the DATE of release in advance, let along the price (which can vary by a third or more from year to year).

The release each year is treated like a major event - and there's huge amounts of speculation what the price will be. I just can't imagine how Vtech would be able to short circuit that.

(Edit: And by the way - it's not the same thing as these wines being pre-allocated to favored clients by wine merchants - that's not going to give you a fixed price or allow you to pay at well below the price even negociants get, as Vtech claimed.)

Now I don't pretend to know anything about wine, other than I like a good Rioja, but isn't napa from the napa valley in California ?

EKIMIKE

VTech only mentioned owning Napa futures after ooermissus made that point. Don't get bogged down in the details - it betrays the truth.

ooermissus

MattC59 wrote:

Now I don't pretend to know anything about wine, other than I like a good Rioja, but isn't napa from the napa valley in California ?

Yes - and the argument is about whether Vtech is able to get Lafite at prices far below the en primeur price because he buys what he calls 'futures' and pays in advance. He said he already owned Napa for 2015 - I pointed out that, as far as I know, it doesn't work like for the best French vineyards.

MattC59

ooermissus wrote:

MattC59 wrote:

Now I don't pretend to know anything about wine, other than I like a good Rioja, but isn't napa from the napa valley in California ?

Yes - and the argument is about whether Vtech is able to get Lafite at prices far below the en primeur price because he buys what he calls 'futures' and pays in advance. He said he already owned Napa for 2015 - I pointed out that, as far as I know, it doesn't work like for the best French vineyards.

Ah, fair enough. I assumed as you'd mentioned Napa in the post, that's what you were talking about. Carry on.... :oops:

ooermissus

Oh god. I am laughing now. I have a friend who is director for a mid-sized wine merchant and he often talks about how big a problem fakes are these days. The police found a stash of 10,000 fake bottles of Lafite in China last year. I do hope Vtech's super-cheap Lafite didn't come from an ask-me-no-questions-tell-me-no-lies supplier. That would be too much.

EKIMIKE

Cleat Eastwood

ooermissus wrote:

Oh god. I am laughing now. I have a friend who is director for a mid-sized wine merchant and he often talks about how big a problem fakes are these days. The police found a stash of 10,000 fake bottles of Lafite in China last year. I do hope Vtech's super-cheap Lafite didn't come from an ask-me-no-questions-tell-me-no-lies supplier. That would be too much.

Before you choke on your own sense of self worth maybe you should have checked your facts:

"Contrary to reports in the Chinese media, there were no bottles of Chateau Lafite Rothschild itself – but large quantities of the company’s DBR Collection brands, which include Légends, Saga, and Réserve Spéciale.

Read more at http://www.decanter.com/news/wine-news/ ... uffLfGp.99 "

Christophe Salin, the managing director of DBR (Lafite) told Decanter.com, ‘We are aware of it and our lawyers in China are working with the Chinese fraud office.’

It is believed that forgers are now less willing to fake high-cost wines such as Lafite Rothschild, as the punishment for forgery in China is linked to the value of the goods, and death sentences have recently been handed down to forgers of the most expensive products.

Read more at http://www.decanter.com/news/wine-news/ ... uffLfGp.99

You dont get this sort of aggro on threads about real ale - so let that be a lesson to you all - drink proper booze

ooermissus

Thanks for the correction. Had not read the later story.

wishitwasallflat

VTech wrote:

wishitwasallflat wrote:

MattC59 wrote:

You just can't help yourself, can you Vtech........

I think he could ...

I am sure your post is totally genuine so I sincerely appologise for any offence I've caused. My intention was never a out money, the strange thing is that on my normal life it doesn't enter the fray outside of the work invironment. Of course during work I can't do anything about it as money is everything.

I think the aspect you are missing is that at your work people you speak with will be either:

Richer than you (I am assuming you are not the best paid person there but if that is wrong the other points below hold),
As rich and well paid as you are, or
Less well paid but in a power imbalance with their better paid colleagues and/or employers.

As a result the reactions you get to your life style and wealth will be very very different to those you will get on a Forum such as this.

You don't seem to appreciate that yours is a financially rarified world (those in the latter group who work in that world, but don't share the rewards, will not speak honestly to those who do) and you would be wise to take that into account.

When you struggle to pay your morgage and support your kids despite working hard for a living pictures of cars that look like they cost more than your home and that are unused impulse buys (for example) will offend.

This is not the first time you have sincerely apologised - would it not be wiser to learn from the experience and not put yourself in the situation where you have to?

Why not set yourself a one week target - don't allow yourself to make any posts at all that refer in any way at all to your - pay, home, financial circumstances etc