Any Oenophile's here ?
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VTech you are starting to sound a bit,
'I am considerably richer than yow'
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VTech wrote:EKIMIKE wrote:VTech wrote:it is always difficult to give an open reasoning to a person who asks a question without relating to circumstances.
Really? It's difficult to explain things without referring to yourself?
The reality is, like all devout consumerists, you are self-obsessed.
A guy comes on the forum, asks for the best bike for his budget, he gives a budget of £500, this assists the people replying as they will not specify a bike costing more than £500. This is quite important when asking this question.
I however have not asked for any assistance based on money, I dont need too which obviously offends you but dont get jealous, if you need to get some of that energy out of your system your welcome to come round mine and take this for a spin.
It sits in the garage as its not too nice to drive, another impulsive purchase but hey ho.
Dont be a hater my friend, you too can make something of yourself, put the same effort into those books and maybe one day you can assist me with some litigation.
I've got one like that - not the car - the little table in the back - its propped up with my bargain booze club card
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I dont have a problem with Vtechs posts, the suns shining in his garden and while it is he's sharing positive things - its odd how a post like this can turn into such negative responses - I have no problem making refernce to his lifestyle, it not as if he's coming over as the big 'I Am' - he's made a generous offer in the other road section about organising a ride and talk and a bbq -now if he admitted to being a communter...well thats a dufferent matter. :PThe dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when he resigns
momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself.0 -
Cornerblock wrote:VTech you are starting to sound a bit,
'I am considerably richer than yow'
TBF, I think anyone who really does read into this, and other posts will understand that im not like that at all, ive been "goaded" by this guy, others jump in with both feet and ive played it.Living MY dream.0 -
Why don't you guys just agree to disagree?
Simples!0 -
I only wanted to know if anyone liked wine.
Living MY dream.0 -
So, back on topic again - how do you actually buy a wine for investment - do you go to the vineyard or are there sellers (or cellars) - it can't be a matter of buying a few bottles from a shop, surely.The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when he resigns
momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself.0 -
Cleat Eastwood wrote:So, back on topic again - how do you actually buy a wine for investment - do you go to the vineyard or are there sellers (or cellars) - it can't be a matter of buying a few bottles from a shop, surely.
I think that's the issue really. Where to buy.
You can buy direct from the producer and let's say you had a few shillings spare each year you will make. Some people use the likes of Lay and Wheeler to buy fine wines. I am not heavily into this myself, I have a few bottles and not all for future, I collect a bottle from most places I visit. Also wines I or the wife like for drinking.
You don't need to invest much either, 2010 is said to be a good year offering good returns or the future hopefully, both in drinking and futures.
It's interesting, addictive and fun.Living MY dream.0 -
That's what I want to know.
Vtech, if you genuinely invest fairly big in and have only seen good results, then you may just need to enlighten a few of us. From reading previous reports, it has been found that the wine market dropped significantly and they only people successful in the industry are the people who take your investment (as they're entitled to a healthy percentage of it - for them, win-win situation).
Clear this up!0 -
Wine hasn't dropped in the last few years, only residual values of collections have.
So, if let's say you had a collection in 2009 that was worth £100,000 with cost price of £10,000 you were up £90,000.
Later this dropped so let's say it went down too £80,000 leaving you only £70,000 up but your still up. People are still in profit, just by less.
People have not looked at the real picture and that is that wine has continued to return good yields for certain brands.Living MY dream.0 -
VTech wrote:I only wanted to know if anyone liked wine.
I like wine. Had a nice bottle of Pinot Grigio last night. £4:99 from tesco. Lovely. And the fact that it was half price made it even nicer. 0 -
I have to say wine buying has been less interesting in recent years.
Up to the early 2000s it was good fun buying wine En primeur (basically the 2 year period between wine being picked and bottled for sale) when Chateaus would sell wine at a reasonable discount versus bottled wine, to improve working capital cash flow. Over time it became obvious that wine bought this way was good value and the producers started moving up the price to capture more of the value, making En primeur less of a certain thing.
Wine prices also got a boost in the early to mid 2000s with the emergence of China as a buying and consumption market. This was helped by a relaxation of the import tax which from memory reduced the price of wine to the Chinese consumer by 40%. This led to a number of wine merchants opening in Hong Kong. Ch Lafite was a particular favourite in China which helped push up the price, don't know whether it is true but one story was that Lafite was easier to pronounce over the other top Chateau's that all had "r" sounds. The Chinese also had a habit of drinking their wine (sometimes with 7 Up to improve the taste, Petrus and lemonade - I kid you not) rather than storing it so taking wine permanently out of circulation. It's a bit like having a rare Ferrari and its value going up every time some eejit crashes one. Lafite has done very well accordingly.
These days I just buy wine for drinking. Should have enough in the cellar now to last me until the taste buds can no longer function properly. The scary thought is that with some of the current Bordeux wines, they are only going to come into their own as I enter my dotage !0 -
The point about falling prices is that Vtech was advising people to buy into to a market that has recently fallen steeply and may continue to do so. An analogy - if you bought a house a decade ago, recent falling prices (outside London) only put a small dent into your profit - but that doesn't mean someone who buys today is guaranteed to make money.
He was also telling people that wine has outperformed gold - it hasn't. And he was banging on about the 'yield' on wine - which is zero.
For those asking for advice on investment, probably the most important thing to bear in mind is that any wine that you store in your house will be worth much less and be harder to sell, than wine you own but that has never left a commercial storage facility. In fact, it may have hardly any resale value at all.0 -
VTech wrote:Wine hasn't dropped in the last few years, only residual values of collections have.
So, if let's say you had a collection in 2009 that was worth £100,000 with cost price of £10,000 you were up £90,000.
Later this dropped so let's say it went down too £80,000 leaving you only £70,000 up but your still up. People are still in profit, just by less.
People have not looked at the real picture and that is that wine has continued to return good yields for certain brands.
OK so how much does a beginner need to get started in wine investment? I assume going around Tescos hi-jacking the 3 for 2 deals isn't the way forward. Would an investment of say £500 a year be worthwhile, and what should you look for?
On the wealth thing I don't think anyone is particularly jealous of your perceived wealth but it becomes a bit dull and tiresome if you are constantly alluding to your expensive possessions. the picture of the car on the previous page was a classic example. I'm glad you don't collect firearms I would fear for your feet.
Ok back on topic. Red or white?0 -
Red. White is only a drinking wine, it doesn't have longevity.0
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Mccaria wrote:Red. White is only a drinking wine, it doesn't have longevity.
Not strictly true.0 -
ooermissus, I can't bite at you, no one is that dumb to be serious about what you just wrote.
As for red v white. As a rule red yields better. I have only 1 bottle of white that ill save, I intend to let that go in 2026 if I'm alive then, if I am ill post back if you guys are interested Living MY dream.0 -
VTech wrote:ooermissus, I can't bite at you, no one is that dumb to be serious about what you just wrote.
Refute it then. Because - yet again - we have found a subject that you know as a little about as you do cycling.0 -
Fair point ooermissus. It was an attempt at a pithy answer!
i think for anyone starting out then red wine is probably the more obvious starting point. I know Reislings tend to last pretty well, but I'm not a big fan. For whites I tend to stick to the Montrachets and try to drink them no longer than 5-7 years out and they are much too nice to contemplate selling.0 -
ooermissus wrote:VTech wrote:ooermissus, I can't bite at you, no one is that dumb to be serious about what you just wrote.
Refute it then. Because - yet again - we have found a subject that you know as a little about as you do cycling.
What a foolish guy you are. I could go on about how much I know and to what lengths I've gone to protect the wines I have but morons like you would say its back to money. Arguing with morons is futile but I'd rather be me than you. That's a certainty.Living MY dream.0 -
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Mccaria wrote:Fair point ooermissus. It was an attempt at a pithy answer!
Yes - and of course you are right that most whites don't last as long as reds - though I think the very best whites may be drinkable for longer. The Chateau d’Yquem from just over 200 years ago is apparently still in peak condition. And in a slightly less rarefied world, white burgundies from some of the vintages of around 20 years ago are still not ready to drink.0 -
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CambsNewbie wrote:VTech wrote:I only wanted to know if anyone liked wine.
I like wine. Had a nice bottle of Pinot Grigio last night. £4:99 from tesco. Lovely. And the fact that it was half price made it even nicer.
A bottle of this in Allbarone costs nearly £20! Admittedly it would taste slightly better0 -
VTech wrote:I could go on about how much I know and to what lengths I've gone to protect the wines I have but morons like you would say its back to money. Arguing with morons is futile but I'd rather be me than you. That's a certainty.
I didn't make any comment on how you store wine. Simply pointed out to others that it is much easier to sell wine that has unimpeachable provenance (i.e. there's cast iron proof it's always been stored well and that it's not a fake). And it's very very hard for someone with a small private collection to demonstrate provenance unless the wine is still in bond or has never left a secure commercial storage facility. You might have a good cellar at home, but how does a potential buyer know that the wine has always been kept in it?0 -
Does anyone know why Richard Hennessy cost so much? I saw an empty bottle of it around here somewhere. Comes in the case too. For the record, no. Someone I know working at Royal Horse Guards in London decided to give it to me - I did not purchase it. Odd, but I believe something from the bottle is made from crystal?0
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ooermissus wrote:VTech wrote:I could go on about how much I know and to what lengths I've gone to protect the wines I have but morons like you would say its back to money. Arguing with morons is futile but I'd rather be me than you. That's a certainty.
I didn't make any comment on how you store wine. Simply pointed out to others that it is much easier to sell wine that has unimpeachable provenance (i.e. there's cast iron proof it's always been stored well and that it's not a fake). And it's very very hard for someone with a small private collection to demonstrate provenance unless the wine is still in bond or has never left a secure commercial storage facility. You might have a good cellar at home, but how does a potential buyer know that the wine has always been kept in it?
This is what frustrates me about you. Quite clearly you are a clever fella, you could of given so much depth to this thread instead of taking the path you did.
Of course, storage is key and having provenance for a collection is the real value. I chose to have a secure cellar, built by a traditionalist in a controlled environment with yearly fluctuations of +- 1 degree.
All of my keepers are logged both at storage and on line so records are kept.
The link posted above was aimed at unscrupulous dealers ripping off clients, not wine losses in its own rights.Living MY dream.0 -
So a safe way to invest in wine then...0
