Paul Kimmage.....

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  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,717
    Yellow Peril wrote:
    r0bh wrote:
    Full story of the UCI Underpants debacle from Joe Lindsey:

    http://www.bicycling.com/news/featured- ... fense-fund

    Thanks for the link to this. I'm not a tweeterer and so the references to people such as UCI Overlord, Digger Forum and Festinagirl to name but three have gone over my head over the last few years. I assumed (wrongly) because of the almost Messianic reverence with which these people were feted that they were people on the inside of cycling, connected, important. It turns out they are nobodies with less insight, knowledge and connection to many of the forumites whose posts I read on here.

    Perhaps I'm being harsh calling them nobodies. UCI Overlord was apparently a decent barista and I seriously have a lot of respect for that.

    Maybe its the Belgian beer tlaking but This should be made a sticky and posted at the start of each thread!! Chapeauest of chapeaus
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • Yellow Peril
    Yellow Peril Posts: 4,466
    ddraver wrote:
    Yellow Peril wrote:
    r0bh wrote:
    Full story of the UCI Underpants debacle from Joe Lindsey:

    http://www.bicycling.com/news/featured- ... fense-fund

    Thanks for the link to this. I'm not a tweeterer and so the references to people such as UCI Overlord, Digger Forum and Festinagirl to name but three have gone over my head over the last few years. I assumed (wrongly) because of the almost Messianic reverence with which these people were feted that they were people on the inside of cycling, connected, important. It turns out they are nobodies with less insight, knowledge and connection to many of the forumites whose posts I read on here.

    Perhaps I'm being harsh calling them nobodies. UCI Overlord was apparently a decent barista and I seriously have a lot of respect for that.

    Maybe its the Belgian beer tlaking but This should be made a sticky and posted at the start of each thread!! Chapeauest of chapeaus

    Many thanks my friend. I sense you are feeling a little "flat" after your Belgian MTB experience alluded to on another thread? was it a terrain issue?
    @JaunePeril

    Winner of the Bike Radar Pro Race Wiggins Hour Prediction Competition
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,717
    yeah basically, Houfallize is supposed to be the centre of Belgian MTBing and frankly, it's a little bit lame...I think i was expecting the wrong stuff bascially....
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • Yellow Peril
    Yellow Peril Posts: 4,466
    ddraver wrote:
    yeah basically, Houfallize is supposed to be the centre of Belgian MTBing and frankly, it's a little bit lame...I think i was expecting the wrong stuff bascially....

    Never mind. What we need to do is organise a BR trip to a Belgian cyclo cross event in the winter. Now that's something that we know they do brilliantly and the prospect of Belgian beer, frites and a good days spectating will more than make up for it.

    Anyway Tour tomorrow!!!
    @JaunePeril

    Winner of the Bike Radar Pro Race Wiggins Hour Prediction Competition
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,717
    Yip, and Lions PT 2....

    Shame I ll be riding for all of it....or maybe....
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    It's almost like a higher power is telling to to stay aware from cycling

    https://twitter.com/RoughRider2013/stat ... 0630987777
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,262
    I watched his latest video on Irish Independent. It gave more context to his EBH question.

    He genuinely stated that he thought Eddy should be a Tour GC contender. No ambiguity.

    Look at the CQ rankings. There's nothing to suggest that talent. He had done one GT prior to Sky. He came 81st - about 50 places behind supposed nobody Froome.

    I'm completely at a loss as to why some people worship Kimmage.

    He is meant to be an investigative journalist, but in 20 years he has exposed no doping other than his own.

    And some people think that creating a scene in a press conference is 'proper journalism' - it's not. Press conferences are for getting quotes to supplement an existing story. Real stories come from sources "a journalist is as only as good as his sources" - and I'm guessing someone who rarely goes to races and burns bridges isn't the best equiped in that respect.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • thomthom
    thomthom Posts: 3,574
    Hagen WAS hailed the biggest talent in many many years around 2008-2009. PK is definitely not the first to have had him as GC contender by now. Pundits with greater cycling knowledge than PK claimed this as well.

    I completely agree that he has been wasted on Sky. But he's earning quite a lot and in the end it's his own choice to either stay or leave Sky. I hope he'll find a different teams sooner or later, though. To many fish at Sky.
  • wombly_knees
    wombly_knees Posts: 657
    He was a huge talent and has stunted to an extent, but to what extent? To call him Merckx is beyond a stretch. Not much is needed to refute that claim, but he'd never won the Tour de l'Avenir (though I remember 06 being good for him), never the Girobio. He really didn't have anything to set him apart from other U23s as a high mountain specialist (of course, the benefit of hindsight).

    If he'd won a couple of MSRs, it wouldn't have been a surprise. Then again, Tom Boonen was second in the U23 LBL a while ago. And if anyone really thinks everyone's development as a rider is linear...

    Is he better off leaving sky? Maybe, but does anyone know for sure?

    Still can't get over Ullrich being a natural talent though.
  • Vino'sGhost
    Vino'sGhost Posts: 4,129
    wombly knees wrote:
    He was a huge talent and has stunted to an extent, but to what extent? To call him Merckx is beyond a stretch. Not much is needed to refute that claim, but he'd never won the Tour de l'Avenir (though I remember 06 being good for him), never the Girobio. He really didn't have anything to set him apart from other U23s as a high mountain specialist (of course, the benefit of hindsight).

    If he'd won a couple of MSRs, it wouldn't have been a surprise. Then again, Tom Boonen was second in the U23 LBL a while ago. And if anyone really thinks everyone's development as a rider is linear...

    Is he better off leaving sky? Maybe, but does anyone know for sure?

    Still can't get over Ullrich being a natural talent though.

    Ullrich was a natural talent, its why armstrong feared him. Had been as organised as Armstrong the results may have been very different. He was also a really relaxed and pleasant guy on the couple of occasions i met him, unlike his opponent.
    All these guys have a natural talent, the gear just distorts it. and since it appears that 95% of the peleoton were on the gear lets not scoff to loudly.
  • wombly_knees
    wombly_knees Posts: 657
    Armstrong is also a natural talent, the drugs just added to that. Got nothing against Ullrich the person, who I've never met, but if he’s the biggest natural talent in the sport for the past 15 or so years then Bill Clinton’s ascetic.
  • Jez mon
    Jez mon Posts: 3,809
    Let's be honest, in the EPO era, talent was a word for how you responded to putting more red blood cells in your blood whilst maintaining a HCT. of below 50%. Ullrich was a more likeable character than Lance, though.
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • No_Ta_Doctor
    No_Ta_Doctor Posts: 14,691
    His quote on the Norwegian site linked was "The next Merckx". That in itself should be enough to tell you that any gap between expected performance and actual performance can be adequately accounted for by the extreme hyperbole surrounding the young EBH.

    Not only do young athletes often fail to live up to their potential (for a huge variety of reasons), often the weight of expectation heaped on their shoulders actively hinders their progression. And given the lack of any possible control example, there's nothing to say that EBH hasn't been more successful at Sky than he would have been elsewhere. Put him in a small team built around him and maybe he crumbles completely under the responsibility?
    Warning No formatter is installed for the format
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,262
    No tA Doctor wrote:
    His quote on the Norwegian site linked was "The next Merckx". That in itself should be enough to tell you that any gap between expected performance and actual performance can be adequately accounted for by the extreme hyperbole surrounding the young EBH.
    It more that he stated that a rider who has never been at the sharp end of any mountain top stage ever should now be a favourite for the Tour by now. It's just a bizarre. In his video he even mentions that there were journalists laughing at him.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • yorkshireraw
    yorkshireraw Posts: 1,632
    Kimmage currently doing little to enhance his failing credibility on Twitter. Having a full on meltodown at Owen Slot of The Times and Richard Moore.
    Utterly shambolic.
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    YorkshireRaw wrote:
    Kimmage currently doing little to enhance his failing credibility on Twitter. Having a full on meltodown at Owen Slot of The Times and Richard Moore.
    Utterly shambolic.



    The journey from respected sports journo to Father Jack in 800 hundred-odd tweets
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,262
    I'm starting to think that Aaron Brown actually did him a favour.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • chrisday
    chrisday Posts: 300
    It's like watching a car crash - I know I shouldn't, but...
    @shraap | My Men 2016: G, Yogi, Cav, Boonen, Degenkolb, Martin, J-Rod, Kudus, Chaves
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    chrisday wrote:
    It's like watching a car crash - I know I shouldn't, but...


    *pushes back business call and logs back into Twitter*
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    ooohhhhhhhh

    :shock:
  • thamacdaddy
    thamacdaddy Posts: 590
    The twitter meltdown is in reference to this: https://soundcloud.com/secondcaptains-i ... -july-23rd

    From 11mins onwards.

    In summary Kimmage states he has been refused to write any negative coverage of Sky in murdoch papers, he is having his usual pop at Walsh as embedded reporter at Team Sky and he details how he was set to do the same last year and on the eve of the tour Brailsford etc said he could no longer be embedded for the whole tour. Kimmage speculates this was because wiggins felt uneasy with it but I don't think he really knows, I think he is attaching the insinuation Wiggins has something to hide.

    While I have felt he has been going a bit dolalley he does put a convincing enough argument across. You can't disagree that people are ok to offer a different view than walsh does.
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    thamacdaddy wrote:
    The twitter meltdown is in reference to this: https://soundcloud.com/secondcaptains-i ... -july-23rd

    From 11mins onwards.

    In summary Kimmage states he has been refused to write any negative coverage of Sky in murdoch papers, he is having his usual pop at Walsh as embedded reporter at Team Sky and he details how he was set to do the same last year and on the eve of the tour Brailsford etc said he could no longer be embedded for the whole tour. Kimmage speculates this was because wiggins felt uneasy with it but I don't think he really knows, I think he is attaching the insinuation Wiggins has something to hide.

    While I have felt he has been going a bit dolalley he does put a convincing enough argument across. You can't disagree that people are ok to offer a different view than walsh does.


    *sigh*

    The Tour he was lined up to do was 2010, not last year

    DaveB then said, change of plan, dont join us straight awy in the first week, the team need a few days to get bedded into the Tour first. Cue Kimmage throwing his toys out of the pram, and telling DaveB "I'm a vindicative bastard, I'll get you back for this"

    and 3 years later, he's still trying to do so


    Now onto the Murdoch papers thing. He was let go from the Sunday Times end-2011 at the same time as 99 other sports editorial staff. And this is also a big part of what all this is about.

    The Daily Mail and Paul Dacre happily accepted his 'I'm not sure about Wiggins and Sky' stuff the final day of last year's Tour.

    Back to the Murdoch papers thing...out of all the UK papers, I've seen more articles in the Times re Sky, Leinders, Yates-Motoman-Armstrong connection, than all of the other broadsheets put together. Even during the Tour, when the race was in the south of France Jeremy Whittle and Owen Slot went to track down the alleged Motoman at his bike shop in Cagnes-sur-Mere, and published the article with its references to Sean Yates. No other journo - and that includes Kimmage - went anywhere near him.

    So what's Kimmage been doing on this Tour, this opportunity to dig around Team Sky? The answer is sweet FA. Further highlighted by this question put to him by Richard Moore this afternoon:

    Richard Moore
    @richardmoore73
    @PaulKimmage out of interest, since you were reporting TdF, why were you on Alpe d'Huez day of Ventoux stage, and Paris day of Annecy stage?
  • yorkshireraw
    yorkshireraw Posts: 1,632
    of course people can have a different point of view. But to state, or at least imply, that because Walsh is ultimately paid by Murdoch he isn't telling the whole truth is ridiculous. In addition, it's all starting to smack of sour grapes - 'Walsh got my gig' - rather than Kimmage being able to put forward anything resembling a reasonable debate. His comment to Richard Moore - 'go back to shoving your tongue up Sir DB's ar5e' - is utter drivel. Pity Kimmage can't make the link between that sort of aggressive attitude and closed mindset and Walsh's proper approach as the reason perhaps world class guys embarking on a bl00dy hard task didn't want him in their faces for 3 weeks.
  • yorkshireraw
    yorkshireraw Posts: 1,632
    [quote="Richmond Racer
    So what's Kimmage been doing on this Tour, this opportunity to dig around Team Sky? The answer is sweet FA. Further highlighted by this question put to him by Richard Moore this afternoon:

    Richard Moore
    @richardmoore73
    @PaulKimmage out of interest, since you were reporting TdF, why were you on Alpe d'Huez day of Ventoux stage, and Paris day of Annecy stage?[/quote]

    What he's been primarily trying to do, from what I have seen of his media presence, is promote his own film.
  • thamacdaddy
    thamacdaddy Posts: 590
    What is the sign for RR?

    Sorry I got the date wrong. I wasn't passing any judgement on anything really I was summarising what he says in te podcast which I listened to. I don't know the other side of the story and I am defo interested in it. I always thought e has been spouting bile for the last year and not that the podcast changes that but it's a little more measured than that.

    I was just linking it and summarising it, badly obviously, I wasn't really passing an opinion.
  • Richmond Racer
    Richmond Racer Posts: 8,561
    Sorry, the 'sigh' is at Kimmage - not you, thamacdaddy
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,717
    thamacdaddy wrote:
    The twitter meltdown is in reference to this: https://soundcloud.com/secondcaptains-i ... -july-23rd

    This is boarderline unlistenable to, it's like one of rayjay's posts...

    "Some of the guys...I presume Wiggins..." WTF???
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • thamacdaddy
    thamacdaddy Posts: 590
    Richmond Racer wrote:
    Sorry, the 'sigh' is at Kimmage - not you, thamacdaddy

    Fair enough. Richard Moore did make a good point at why kimmage thinks publishing something that brings legal action is admirable. I am presuming he is saying that's why kimmages pieces weren't published as opposed some Murdoch driven omertà.
  • iainf72
    iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    His Swiss case against Pat and HV has been chucked out and he's been lumbered with the costs..

    Which wasn't difficult to predict
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,575
    That's alright, there's a defence fund with his name on it.

    Oh.

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