Paul Kimmage.....

blazing_saddles

Have they passed out the black armbands in the Clinic, yet?
Their messiah looking more and more of a fallen idol, these days.
Dan Martin had better remember to bow, when next they meet.

inkyfingers

I've been enjoying his downfall as much as anybody, but I can't help feeling that we're looking at somebody with a serious mental problem.

Yellow Peril

inkyfingers wrote:

I've been enjoying his downfall as much as anybody, but I can't help feeling that we're looking at somebody with a serious mental problem.

A bit harsh on O'Driscoll there Inky...

Surely Kimmage to ghost Write Horner's bio would tick all necessary boxes?

ddraver

I'm no expert but I ve never got the impression that there is anything overly contraversial about Drico anyway? Just write the story, say it was all very nice and good - EBH style - and take the pay check!

Even Kimmage would stuggle to create too mcuh controversy over the Gatland non pick or even "that" tackle...

Richmond Racer

Caveat for those who've just eaten:

Allegedly (story knocking around), after he interviewed Queen Vicky Pendleton she said she never wanted to meet him again. Gave her the creeps - all he wanted to talk about was her taking her kit off for a photo shoot.

salsiccia1

ddraver wrote:

I'm no expert but I ve never got the impression that there is anything overly contraversial about Drisco anyway?
Even Kimmage would stuggle to create too mcuh controversy over the Gatland non pick or even "that" tackle...

Perhaps Kimmage asked him about rugby's steroid/HGH problem

ddraver

that was my initial "silver lining fo Kimmage" suspiscion - but the real explanation is frankly way way more likely....

DL1987

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Have they passed out the black armbands in the Clinic, yet?
Their messiah looking more and more of a fallen idol, these days.
Dan Martin had better remember to bow, when next they meet.

The Messiah falls out with a rugby player......the next day the Clinic (& DF on twitter) have begun pushing a doping in rugby agenda? Coincidence?

mroli

RichN95 wrote:

As a writer he is only good if his subject fits into his milieu of the dark side of sport - the destroyer of men. Casacarino was a gambling addicted womaniser and Hampson was paralysed - just his sort of topics. He wants to be the Frank McCourt of sport.
He needs to have a subject provided for him, find a predetermined 'dark side' angle and then have the subject comply with that angle to be any good. [and lots of other good stuff]

Fair enough, but the biggest "narrative" in sports books doesn't tend to be the fairy tale bit, but how they addressed and conquered their demons - the Pendleton book was her lack of self-worth and belief. The Wiggins story - father issues/depression after Olympics. I take what you say totally but perhaps Kimmage just wasn't drawn to a story that says "I won everything as a junior, won everything as an adult, married an amazing person, had amazing kids who are now achieving great things and everything is brilliant".

He appears to be a difficult, bloody minded individual yes. He comes out with some provocative and "ridiculous" statements, but he's also been a pro bike rider, made a living as a sports journalist and written 3 very good books on 3 different sports. None of which I have done or come anywhere near doing. I think his body of work deserves a little respect rather than the mocking of people who may forget that he was mocked in a similar manner when it was just him and Walsh (and a couple of others) talking about Armstrong. I don't agree with all he says (and agree with increasingly little as time goes on), but accusations of mental problems (which if true would be as distasteful as slagging off various sportsmen/commentators for depression issues) and painting him as a shrivelled, dirty old man makes people as bad on one side as those on the other decrying anyone who doesn't agree with their opinion as doping facilitators.

I don't know him. I like his writing. If he says something ridiculous or unworthy, I'll read a rebuttal of it, but play-ground innuendo is a bit..... cheap? (this isn't aimed at you Rich - as I said, your original post is full of good stuff). Well. Didn't think I'd write that when I thought I'd have an idle flick at the Kimmage thread this afternoon!

Richmond Racer

"I never called him shrivelled"

The thing with Kimmage - at least from where I sit - you live by the sword, you die by the sword. There comes a point at which the goodwill, the respect, that was built up over time, just gets eroded with the Father Jack rants, the self-grandiose behaviour, the rampaging ego, the constant determination to be the story.

Until finally there's no goodwill left, its all been used up.

tailwindhome

He'll always have Digger

RichN95.

mroli wrote:

Fair enough, but the biggest "narrative" in sports books doesn't tend to be the fairy tale bit, but how they addressed and conquered their demons - the Pendleton book was her lack of self-worth and belief. The Wiggins story - father issues/depression after Olympics. I take what you say totally but perhaps Kimmage just wasn't drawn to a story that says "I won everything as a junior, won everything as an adult, married an amazing person, had amazing kids who are now achieving great things and everything is brilliant".

Which makes it bizarre that he took the O'Driscoll ghostwriting gig. O'Driscoll is that guy (and one that Kimmage has called boring in the past). And ghostwriter is there to tell the story from the subject's perspective not their own. I think he saw O'Driscoll as merely a conduit to a higher profile for his literary 'genius' - he saw awards in it. (He frequently mentions his awards).
The problem is that sportswriting is rarely about the dark underbelly - it's about the match and the score. Most of it is joyful and entertaining. But he seems to feel this beneath him. He would be well advised to write about something other than sport really.

mroli wrote:

He appears to be a difficult, bloody minded individual yes. He comes out with some provocative and "ridiculous" statements, but he's also been a pro bike rider, made a living as a sports journalist and written 3 very good books on 3 different sports. None of which I have done or come anywhere near doing. I think his body of work deserves a little respect rather than the mocking of people who may forget that he was mocked in a similar manner when it was just him and Walsh (and a couple of others) talking about Armstrong.

He may have done some good work (although I think his role in the Armstrong saga is massively overstated and Rough Ride, for all it's whistleblowing repubtation, is actually only 5% doping and 95% self-pity), but he, supported by sychophants, seems to view himself above the status of other journalists (particularly cycling ones) - witness the documentary and it's trailer and some recent Independent columns - while rarely writing anything of worth. It's his self-importance and distorted view of what a journalist should be that I mock. By listening to his own hype he has become a parody.

mroli

Ok, ok, ok... You all hate him. Fine

*but you wait until he writes a book of genius about Roger Federer's internal demons. Then you'll all be sorry* :P

blazing_saddles

DL1987 wrote:

Blazing Saddles wrote:

Have they passed out the black armbands in the Clinic, yet?
Their messiah looking more and more of a fallen idol, these days.
Dan Martin had better remember to bow, when next they meet.

The Messiah falls out with a rugby player......the next day the Clinic (& DF on twitter) have begun pushing a doping in rugby agenda? Coincidence?

The clinic culprit is Kimmage's second biggest (behind Digger F) fanboy.
It's a pretty predictable defence, from a pretty predictable poster.

TailWindHome wrote:

He'll always have Digger

Only cos no one wants to interview a nobody.

RichN95.

mroli wrote:

*but you wait until he writes a book of genius about Roger Federer's internal demons. Then you'll all be sorry* :P

Federer, despite his public image, is famously stubborn and has had bust ups with a series of coaches. He also had massive tantrums when he was young.

Sounds like they'll get on perfectly.

ocdupalais

mroli wrote:

...He appears to be a difficult, bloody minded individual yes. He comes out with some provocative and "ridiculous" statements, but he's also been a pro bike rider, made a living as a sports journalist and written 3 very good books on 3 different sports. None of which I have done or come anywhere near doing. I think his body of work deserves a little respect rather than the mocking of people who may forget that he was mocked in a similar manner when it was just him and Walsh (and a couple of others) talking about Armstrong. I don't agree with all he says (and agree with increasingly little as time goes on), but accusations of mental problems (which if true would be as distasteful as slagging off various sportsmen/commentators for depression issues) and painting him as a shrivelled, dirty old man makes people as bad on one side as those on the other decrying anyone who doesn't agree with their opinion as doping facilitators.

...

Is it not possible to respect someone's achievements and mock them?

Is it distasteful to suggest that someone might be suffering from depression?

It wasn't until I watched that trailer for his documentary that I realised that I'd never seen him smile until, ironically, he showed that picture of him cuddling McQuaid - from another era...

In spite of his achievements, and after all he's been through, my main feelings towards him now are mild pity - which I'd suggest is a fundamentally poor position for a writer to be standing in.

carbonclem

Watching this -

http://www.independent.ie/videos/article29964813.ece

it is interesting to consider how Walsh was slated for his 'love' of Team Sky. Kimmage's language is very much that of a fan with a typewriter ...

ddraver

TailWindHome wrote:

He'll always have Digger

Jus went and had a loor - Cor Blimey that's a bit strange isnt it? :shock:

You admire Kimbo's principaled stand to make a bit of extra cash for the IoS??

We re talking one of Digger's class age/Belieber stuff there!

blazing_saddles

Quite funny to read the U turn responses of the Clinic chapter of "hypocrites anonymous",
in the Walsh Bandwagon thread.

iainf72

PK ain't having a good week

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/16249 ... ion.com%29

blazing_saddles

iainf72 wrote:

PK ain't having a good week

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/16249 ... ion.com%29

Maybe he could offer to ghost write McQuaid's biography, now that slot has opened up in his calendar?
They could call it: 'Rise, Demise and Naked Lies'. (or 'Rise, Demise and Porkie Pies')

tailwindhome

Maybe a defence fund could be set up...

RichN95.

TailWindHome wrote:

Maybe a defence fund could be set up...

I'm willing to do it. But I'm pretty lazy so I need some chump who thinks they're making a difference to do the publicity for me (knowledge of PayPal and basic finance is not required).
All of the money will go to Kimmage (after expenses such as a new kitchen and a holiday)
Every donation comes with some 'comedy' tweets from me and a sense of smugness from you.

Pross

To be fair I think Kimmage has a reasonable position here. I hope the court case goes ahead and he wipes the floor with them!

RichN95.

Pross wrote:

To be fair I think Kimmage has a reasonable position here. I hope the court case goes ahead and he wipes the floor with them!

It's utterly moronic from PM & HV. I can't see what they think they can gain from it. There's only down side that I can see.

Macaloon

RichN95 wrote:

Pross wrote:

To be fair I think Kimmage has a reasonable position here. I hope the court case goes ahead and he wipes the floor with them!

It's utterly moronic from PM & HV. I can't see what they think they can gain from it. There's only down side that I can see.

How about a desperate attempt to discourage full disclosure of damaging events from the past being issued by the UCI. If the UCI don't do expensive legal due diligence before publication, they face expensive litigation.

RichN95.

Macaloon wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Pross wrote:

To be fair I think Kimmage has a reasonable position here. I hope the court case goes ahead and he wipes the floor with them!

It's utterly moronic from PM & HV. I can't see what they think they can gain from it. There's only down side that I can see.

How about a desperate attempt to discourage full disclosure of damaging events from the past being issued by the UCI. If the UCI don't do expensive legal due diligence before publication, they face expensive litigation.

But it gives Kimmage a platform to disclose whatever the hell he likes - true or untrue. And for what? 12 grand?

blazing_saddles

RichN95 wrote:

Macaloon wrote:

RichN95 wrote:

Pross wrote:

To be fair I think Kimmage has a reasonable position here. I hope the court case goes ahead and he wipes the floor with them!

It's utterly moronic from PM & HV. I can't see what they think they can gain from it. There's only down side that I can see.

How about a desperate attempt to discourage full disclosure of damaging events from the past being issued by the UCI. If the UCI don't do expensive legal due diligence before publication, they face expensive litigation.

But it gives Kimmage a platform to disclose whatever the hell he likes - true or untrue. And for what? 12 grand?

Maybe they are smarter than everybody thinks and this is their cunning plan, Rich.
Argue that If they'd made so much cash from years of backhanders, why would they need to chase a 12 grand payout? :idea:

Macaloon

RichN95 wrote:

But it gives Kimmage a platform to disclose whatever the hell he likes - true or untrue. And for what? 12 grand?

Perhaps they like their credibility? More likely they have the same advisers as before telling them to keep digging. Also morons.

No_Ta_Doctor

iainf72 wrote:

PK ain't having a good week

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/16249 ... ion.com%29

To be honest he's probably quite happy with that. His martyrdom quotient has been dropping steadily for the last year or so, nice of Pat and Hein to top it up for him.