It's Official Schleck Brothers Suck
Comments
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This year's TDF will be career defining for the Schlecks.
The course is set up for Cadel and Wiggins.
They have to attack in the mountains to take significant time, not only to go into the last TT with enough in hand but they be behind from the first TT.
The crucial difference is the absence of Contador. They've no one to fear. Can they 'let the handbrake off' and just go for it.
They also need to decide who's the team leader and who's the super domestique.
2nd+3rd<1st“New York has the haircuts, London has the trousers, but Belfast has the reason!0 -
What sums it up for me with both Schlecks is their time trialling. OK they will never be up there with Cancellara or Martin but it's the apparent lack of work in improving in that area. When it is costing you GT wins you would think they would spend a big effort on wind tunnel testing etc. to get the most efficient position. Most people on my club 10 look more professional on a time trial bike than the Schlecks. I think this lack of willingness to improve an obvious weakness sums up the attitude problem they have.0
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Pross wrote:What sums it up for me with both Schlecks is their time trialling. OK they will never be up there with Cancellara or Martin but it's the apparent lack of work in improving in that area. When it is costing you GT wins you would think they would spend a big effort on wind tunnel testing etc. to get the most efficient position. Most people on my club 10 look more professional on a time trial bike than the Schlecks. I think this lack of willingness to improve an obvious weakness sums up the attitude problem they have.
Bet the Schlecks shift a fair bit faster than everyone on your club 10
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Rick Chasey wrote:Pross wrote:What sums it up for me with both Schlecks is their time trialling. OK they will never be up there with Cancellara or Martin but it's the apparent lack of work in improving in that area. When it is costing you GT wins you would think they would spend a big effort on wind tunnel testing etc. to get the most efficient position. Most people on my club 10 look more professional on a time trial bike than the Schlecks. I think this lack of willingness to improve an obvious weakness sums up the attitude problem they have.
Bet the Schlecks shift a fair bit faster than everyone on your club 10.
Undoubtably but I'm sure you got the point that the people on the club 10 have worked to get as efficient as they can to turn out the quickest times their limited physical ability allows. It's just stupid things like Frank (I think) not pinning his numbers on properly. You look at them on TT bikes and think there must be a second per km to be saved without any physical effort.0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Bet the Schlecks shift a fair bit faster than everyone on your club 10.
That should be a given surely? Otherwise they'd be Pro and not Amateur :P0 -
Pross wrote:What sums it up for me with both Schlecks is their time trialling. OK they will never be up there with Cancellara or Martin but it's the apparent lack of work in improving in that area. When it is costing you GT wins you would think they would spend a big effort on wind tunnel testing etc. to get the most efficient position. Most people on my club 10 look more professional on a time trial bike than the Schlecks. I think this lack of willingness to improve an obvious weakness sums up the attitude problem they have.
Again, unfortunatly that's just not true. They do work on it, hard! Unfortunately for them they are so lanky and gangly that a super-aero, Wiggo-esque position is not feasable for them. Time trialling is more than just slamming the stem so your hands are down around your ankles. If you remember, Armstrong was also unable to get super-aero as he could nt produce as much power in such a position.
And again, look at the TT stats that have been posted above, they are not terrible, they re just not as good as the very very best in the world...We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
As said above, the absence of Contador is crucial. Even last year they kept looking to him despite everyone else being able to see that he was cooked. After the pounding Evans gave AS in the TT last year he knows he has to go into the final TT with a big lead this time round and he should be able to go into the mountains and look to gain that lead without towing Contador behind him.
It really is a big tour for AS!0 -
TailWindHome wrote:This year's TDF will be career defining for the Schlecks.
The course is set up for Cadel and Wiggins.
They have to attack in the mountains to take significant time, not only to go into the last TT with enough in hand but they be behind from the first TT.
The crucial difference is the absence of Contador. They've no one to fear. Can they 'let the handbrake off' and just go for it.
They also need to decide who's the team leader and who's the super domestique.
2nd+3rd<1st
I agree this is a defining year for the Schlecks. Instead of a super domestique I feel like they both need to take turns attacking hopefully catching the other GC guys off guard one day and gaining that 4-5 minute lead that should carry them through the TTs.0 -
RichN95 wrote:josame wrote:RichN95 wrote:josame wrote:
Daring!???
you can't bandy about a word like that, not in the same sentence as 'Shandy', it just makes it so much harder to find adjectives about Coppi, Pantani, hinault, fignon....... or any of the other riders previously termed 'daring'. At least contador attacks :roll:
Schleck attacked 60km from the finish on a Grand Tour mountain stage. I don't think anyone else has done that this century. It was definitely daring.
See comment about one day of sun not making a summer...
Liege 2009
Grand Bonnard 2009
Tourmalet 2010
Amstel Gold 2011
That's a few suns for a 26 year old.
I'll stand by my point thanks one or two attacks a year does not a 'daring/attacking' rider make... but with 13k+ posts to your name I won't take up anymore of your time (it must be precious ) 'Do not compare your bike to others, for always there will be greater and lesser bikes'0 -
josame wrote:I'll stand by my point thanks one or two attacks a year does not a 'daring/attacking' rider make... but with 13k+ posts to your name I won't take up anymore of your time (it must be precious )
If you're going to insult someone on the basis of their post count, at least read the right number. It just makes you look like an idiot.Twitter: @RichN950 -
RichN95 wrote:josame wrote:I'll stand by my point thanks one or two attacks a year does not a 'daring/attacking' rider make... but with 13k+ posts to your name I won't take up anymore of your time (it must be precious )
If you're going to insult someone on the basis of their post count, at least read the right number. It just makes you look like an idiot.
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ddraver wrote:Pross wrote:What sums it up for me with both Schlecks is their time trialling. OK they will never be up there with Cancellara or Martin but it's the apparent lack of work in improving in that area. When it is costing you GT wins you would think they would spend a big effort on wind tunnel testing etc. to get the most efficient position. Most people on my club 10 look more professional on a time trial bike than the Schlecks. I think this lack of willingness to improve an obvious weakness sums up the attitude problem they have.
Again, unfortunatly that's just not true. They do work on it, hard! Unfortunately for them they are so lanky and gangly that a super-aero, Wiggo-esque position is not feasable for them.
Wiggins 6'3
Cancellara 6'1
Martin 6'1
A Schleck 6'1
F Schleck 6'1
If Wiggins who is all skin and bones can get an aero position on the bike at 6'3 they should be able to manage better then club riders as a previous poster mentioned.0 -
Exactly. Wiggins is lankier and yet has possibly the best TT position out there. It just proves the point, he has worked on his position coming up through the BC ranks where those details count. Whilst they may not be 'that bad' compared to the bulk of a GT peloton but compared to those pushing to win they are. It's an obvious weakness that they acknowledge themselves but seem to do nothing to rectify it.0
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ddraver wrote:Come on boys, play fair - it's not about how tall you are but how proportioned your limbs/body are/is
Lets not be silly about this (again).
Wiggins probably has longer limbs though. IMHO the Schlecks look more gangly because of their poor position not the other way around.0 -
I've said it before and I'll say it again, the thing with being a GT rider is not the ability to TT. It's the ability to TT after nearly 3 weeks. And if you look at Andy, he's not that terrible in those circumstances.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0
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iainf72 wrote:I've said it before and I'll say it again, the thing with being a GT rider is not the ability to TT. It's the ability to TT after nearly 3 weeks. And if you look at Andy, he's not that terrible in those circumstances.
I have to disagree. A GC rider who wants to win these days has to be able to TT in week one or week three. If you lose 2 minutes to another GC rider it's terrible. If Andy wants to be just a GC rider then yeah he's not bad. If he wants to win some day he has to improve a lot.0 -
cycling5280 wrote:iainf72 wrote:I've said it before and I'll say it again, the thing with being a GT rider is not the ability to TT. It's the ability to TT after nearly 3 weeks. And if you look at Andy, he's not that terrible in those circumstances.
I have to disagree. A GC rider who wants to win these days has to be able to TT in week one or week three. If you lose 2 minutes to another GC rider it's terrible. If Andy wants to be just a GC rider then yeah he's not bad. If he wants to win some day he has to improve a lot.
Losing 2 minutes, to rivals, at any time during the race ain't good. However, I do believe that AS has the potential to make up those minutes on climbs. Key word "potential". For my money he's a proven climber.0 -
dennisn wrote:cycling5280 wrote:iainf72 wrote:I've said it before and I'll say it again, the thing with being a GT rider is not the ability to TT. It's the ability to TT after nearly 3 weeks. And if you look at Andy, he's not that terrible in those circumstances.
I have to disagree. A GC rider who wants to win these days has to be able to TT in week one or week three. If you lose 2 minutes to another GC rider it's terrible. If Andy wants to be just a GC rider then yeah he's not bad. If he wants to win some day he has to improve a lot.
Losing 2 minutes, to rivals, at any time during the race ain't good. However, I do believe that AS has the potential to make up those minutes on climbs. Key word "potential". For my money he's a proven climber.
It's a big gamble for the Schlecks to rely on their climbing and it has never worked out after 3 weeks. I just see Sky, BMC, Rabobank and possibly Omega Pharma keeping a shorter leash on the Schlecks this year. We'll know more and see more in June but I'm not seeing the Schlecks form from previous years this year.0 -
cycling5280 wrote:dennisn wrote:cycling5280 wrote:iainf72 wrote:I've said it before and I'll say it again, the thing with being a GT rider is not the ability to TT. It's the ability to TT after nearly 3 weeks. And if you look at Andy, he's not that terrible in those circumstances.
I have to disagree. A GC rider who wants to win these days has to be able to TT in week one or week three. If you lose 2 minutes to another GC rider it's terrible. If Andy wants to be just a GC rider then yeah he's not bad. If he wants to win some day he has to improve a lot.
Losing 2 minutes, to rivals, at any time during the race ain't good. However, I do believe that AS has the potential to make up those minutes on climbs. Key word "potential". For my money he's a proven climber.
It's a big gamble for the Schlecks to rely on their climbing and it has never worked out after 3 weeks. I just see Sky, BMC, Rabobank and possibly Omega Pharma keeping a shorter leash on the Schlecks this year. We'll know more and see more in June but I'm not seeing the Schlecks form from previous years this year.
Maybe it's a case of all or nothing for the TDF for AS. Playing possum out there a bit.
Maybe he's adopted an LA type routine where pretty much everything, but the tour, is training. Put all ya got into one 3 week period. And if he nails it some might say "well, he's not a true racer, all he's ever won is the tour" but I think he'll probably be happy with that.0 -
ddraver wrote:Come on boys, play fair - it's not about how tall you are but how proportioned your limbs/body are/is
Lets not be silly about this (again).
I almost fell off the chair on this one -- an instant classic.
Not only do the Schleck brothers suck, but their supporters on this forum (as evidenced by the above) are clearly operating in the dull to normal range.
This thread is like Dennis' mind -- scary and empty, yet so pious.0 -
cycling5280 wrote:iainf72 wrote:I've said it before and I'll say it again, the thing with being a GT rider is not the ability to TT. It's the ability to TT after nearly 3 weeks. And if you look at Andy, he's not that terrible in those circumstances.
I have to disagree. A GC rider who wants to win these days has to be able to TT in week one or week three. If you lose 2 minutes to another GC rider it's terrible. If Andy wants to be just a GC rider then yeah he's not bad. If he wants to win some day he has to improve a lot.
Indeed, you never want to lose time. But if a good TT'er takes 2 minutes off someone in week one, they more climber type rider takes 3 minutes back in the mountain, at the end of week 3 it's not certain the better TT'er will take all that time back.
He has won. I don't care if he thinks he didn't, history will show he wonFckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
Pross wrote:ddraver wrote:Come on boys, play fair - it's not about how tall you are but how proportioned your limbs/body are/is
Lets not be silly about this (again).
Wiggins probably has longer limbs though. IMHO the Schlecks look more gangly because of their poor position not the other way around.
Put it another way then - do you honestly think that if it were simple case of a longer stem or a different set of bars that they have nt done it? What out of spite? Stubbornness? Come on.
Landis (alongside his many faults) had the backing of USPS for a good deal of time and still ended up with a somewhat unique position by the end of it...
We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
- @ddraver0 -
It doesn't matter what the position looks like if it Works. Floyd wasn't a bad TTer, won an ITT in the ToC if I remember correctly. Thing is, schlecks look like a bag of angry cats in a TT, and ride like one too.0
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Bakunin wrote:ddraver wrote:Come on boys, play fair - it's not about how tall you are but how proportioned your limbs/body are/is
Lets not be silly about this (again).
I almost fell off the chair on this one -- an instant classic.
Not only do the Schleck brothers suck, but their supporters on this forum (as evidenced by the above) are clearly operating in the dull to normal range.
This thread is like Dennis' mind -- scary and empty, yet so pious.
Have a look at this picture. Feel free to do the measurements yourself.
As you can see, relative to his torso, Wiggins not only has longer legs than Schleck, meaning he can get his bum higher, but also , more importantly, relatively shorter forearms, meaning he can get his shoulders lower.
QEDTwitter: @RichN950 -
RichN95 wrote:Bakunin wrote:ddraver wrote:Come on boys, play fair - it's not about how tall you are but how proportioned your limbs/body are/is
Lets not be silly about this (again).
I almost fell off the chair on this one -- an instant classic.
Not only do the Schleck brothers suck, but their supporters on this forum (as evidenced by the above) are clearly operating in the dull to normal range.
This thread is like Dennis' mind -- scary and empty, yet so pious.
Have a look at this picture. Feel free to do the measurements yourself.
As you can see, relative to his torso, Wiggins not only has longer legs than Schleck, meaning he can get his bum higher, but also , more importantly, relatively shorter forearms, meaning he can get his shoulders lower.
QED
I proclaim this thread saved by the graph.
Well graphic, but it'll do.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
Maybe andy should experiment with frame sizes to alter his position then? I find it hard to believe that's the best position he can get himself into. Also, that's not the most accurate graph in the world; slight adjustments to those yellow lines could give different ratios.0
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Classic. Discussion over. AS doesn't suck.
All scream, "I've got fire in my belly."0 -
RichN95 wrote:Bakunin wrote:ddraver wrote:Come on boys, play fair - it's not about how tall you are but how proportioned your limbs/body are/is
Lets not be silly about this (again).
I almost fell off the chair on this one -- an instant classic.
Not only do the Schleck brothers suck, but their supporters on this forum (as evidenced by the above) are clearly operating in the dull to normal range.
This thread is like Dennis' mind -- scary and empty, yet so pious.
Have a look at this picture. Feel free to do the measurements yourself.
As you can see, relative to his torso, Wiggins not only has longer legs than Schleck, meaning he can get his bum higher, but also , more importantly, relatively shorter forearms, meaning he can get his shoulders lower.
QED
But is it only about leg and arm length or, looking at that photo, more about lower back flexibility? That can vary massively from person to person - for example, I weigh more than I should and have no core strength but I always win the cornflake box game*. A friend of mine is the same height as me, with even shorter legs, very fit with very good core strength, but he can't suceed even in the first round of the cornflake box game. He just can't bend from his lower back. Is that not the Schlecks' problem - no lower back flexibility? I had heard that they'd started yoga to try and do something about it.
Though while we're having a moan about the Schlecks, I did find it less than impressive that, knowing TTs are not their strong point and knowing how close things were last year, they didn't recce the course last year. Seemed rather lame and rather uninterested in doing as well as possible.
* For the uninitiated, the cornflake box game involves everyone, one at a time, making an attempt to pick a cornflake box off the floor with their mouth while only the soles of their feet are touching the ground. After each round an inch is ripped off the box to make it shorter and all those who failed on their previous attempt retire from the game. Oh, it's an exciting life I lead...
Oh, and PS - I know nothing about TT positioning or technique.0 -
B3rnieMac wrote:Maybe andy should experiment with frame sizes to alter his position then? I find it hard to believe that's the best position he can get himself into.
This0
