New Orange for 2012

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Comments

  • Growmac
    Growmac Posts: 117
    Bugger me, I don't think I've ever provided conclusive proof of anything before. I'm pleased with that!
    1994 Clark Kent F12; 2004 Mount Vision; 2011 Canyon AM 7, 2012 Canyon Torque FRX 6, a unicycle and a Brompton.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    A prize is winging it's way to you right now. A voucher for one free night with Sheepteeth's mum.
  • benpinnick
    benpinnick Posts: 4,148
    yeehaamcgee wrote:
    A prize is winging it's way to you right now. A voucher for one free night with Sheepteeth's mum.

    I got one of those in a cracker once. Not much of a prize.
    A Flock of Birds
    + some other bikes.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Just cause you didn't know what to do with it, does not make it any less of a prize.
  • supersonic
    supersonic Posts: 82,708
    This is a 3k bike that is not overpriced:

    http://www.canyon.com/_en/mountainbikes ... tml?b=2088

    Look at that spec!
    GT ZASKAR CARBON TEAM

    VOODOO CANZO

    Come and see me at https://www.facebook.com/biketyke/
  • benpinnick
    benpinnick Posts: 4,148
    Now were talking... You could buy that, add an Orange five frame (if you felt inclined to do so) and still have enough cash left over to upgrade bars to carbon and have a Canyon Frame and EC70 bars spare to boot for the same price as a Five SE
    A Flock of Birds
    + some other bikes.
  • Brocklanders023
    Brocklanders023 Posts: 81
    Yawn. :roll:

    http://www.stif.co.uk/mtb/product/scott ... -2011/9465

    http://www.stif.co.uk/mtb/product/santa ... -bike/8644

    http://www.evanscycles.com/products/tre ... e-ec026289

    http://www.evanscycles.com/products/gt/ ... e-ec024775

    http://www.jejamescycles.co.uk/lapierre ... 59698.html

    http://www.leisurelakesbikes.com/produc ... ?&id=15215

    http://www.leisurelakesbikes.com/produc ... ?&id=14603

    http://www.airevalleycycles.com/product ... 1b0s1p5735
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,695
    ^ That's a very nice list o' links there Brock, did you have a point though?
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • Brocklanders023
    Brocklanders023 Posts: 81
    All priced around the same as the 5 Pro, all with similar spec. I thought the 5 was vastly over priced :?

    I'd call the Canyon's and Boardman's of this world the exception rather then the rule and there's usually a reason (certainly so in Boardman's case).
  • Northwind
    Northwind Posts: 14,675
    Just picking one out of the list there, the Zesty is a part-carbon frame, has better wheels, better brakes, and costs £250 less :?
    Uncompromising extremist
  • Brocklanders023
    Brocklanders023 Posts: 81
    I take it you don't like Hope either Northwind. I'd argue which had the better brakes and wheels (but then I do like Hope.... and Orange..... BURN HIM!). Be interested to see how much the part carbon frame costs to buy/make. Oh, and if you look the rrp is the same.
  • benpinnick
    benpinnick Posts: 4,148
    The more I look at it, all bikes now seem fairly overpriced :o

    Actually, to be fair, at least the Orange does apply the bulk of its cash to the bits that cost the most... You do get proper forks and wheels for your dosh.
    A Flock of Birds
    + some other bikes.
  • Hob Nob
    Hob Nob Posts: 200
    Northwind wrote:
    Just picking one out of the list there, the Zesty is a part-carbon frame, has better wheels, better brakes, and costs £250 less :?

    Very selective there!

    Carbon frame, well we all know about Lapierre and carbon frames. Is that considered a bonus? Matter of opinion on the wheels & brakes too. Yet the 5 has a better shock, no own brand junk headset, no crappy press fit BB that falls apart in 5 minutes, etc etc.

    See, it's swings and roundabouts. And that's from a Zesty owner.

    Yes those Canyons look cheap, but there is a reason for that. It's being sold direct. Hardly a like for like comparison again really.

    Plus you know what they say about putting lipstick on pigs. That bike doesn't seem to have a clue what it wants to be.

    All bikes are expensive these days.
  • Dirtydog11
    Dirtydog11 Posts: 1,621
    benpinnick wrote:

    Actually, to be fair, at least the Orange does apply the bulk of its cash to the bits that cost the most... You do get proper forks and wheels for your dosh.

    You've really gone an done it now!
    Kinesis Maxlight XC

    Orange 5 AM Custom
  • dubmodder
    dubmodder Posts: 100
    Just picking one out of the list there, the Zesty is a part-carbon frame, has better wheels, better brakes, and costs £250 less

    Not really.

    It has cup n cone hubs, crappy rims, and equivalent priced brakes from another manufacturer.

    The actual price was £2799, its in the sale, and its a 2011.

    The Five Pro is a 2012, and costs £2859

    I'm looking forward to Ben demoing one and giving his unbiased opinion.
  • tom_howard
    tom_howard Posts: 789
    dubmodder wrote:
    I'm looking forward to Ben demoing one and giving his unbiased opinion.

    Bet I can guess how it will read. 'Got bike out of car. Put front wheel on. Went blind. Went home.'
    Santa Cruz 5010C
    Deviate Guide
    Specialized Sequoia Elite
    Pivot Mach 429SL
    Trek Madone 5.2 Di2
    Salsa Mukluk Carbon
    Specialized Turbo Levo Expert 29er
  • benpinnick
    benpinnick Posts: 4,148
    Tom Howard wrote:
    dubmodder wrote:
    I'm looking forward to Ben demoing one and giving his unbiased opinion.

    Bet I can guess how it will read. 'Got bike out of car. Put front wheel on. Went blind. Went home.'

    Nah, cars big enough to leave wheel on. Probably read, got in car, blinded by bike, crashed car, went home :)

    And yes, it will be unbiased. I owe that to the shop who will be kindly letting me use it safe in the knowledge I have no intent on buying it.
    A Flock of Birds
    + some other bikes.
  • supersonic
    supersonic Posts: 82,708
    A bit pedantic, but.... ;-)
    no own brand junk

    Bars, stem, seatpost...
    It has cup n cone hubs, crappy rims
    That bike doesn't seem to have a clue what it wants to be.

    The 5 Pro has Mavic XM317! And has Tech X2 brakes.... These are pretty flimsy, and in the case of the brakes, underpowered. RX1and XT rims are in a different league on the Lap, and with the Canyon, pretty much all of it is. Plus and I and loads more prefer XT hubs. You could say the Pro didn't know what it was with that build ;-)

    TBH you can argue about individual spec parts all day long, is swings and roundabouts to an extent. Not many bikes at RRP are particularly good, and many may have compromises for some people. With many of these bikes, frame only and custom building is a good way forward. Or buying very cheap in sales and swapping some parts. That way you get the bike you want for your dough.

    One good thing about Orange is that you can customise spec from factory, but does add a bit on. I'd like to see some same price swaps available here like to say an XT or Mavic Wheelset, Formula brakes as I think would open up the door to more people.
    GT ZASKAR CARBON TEAM

    VOODOO CANZO

    Come and see me at https://www.facebook.com/biketyke/
  • Hob Nob
    Hob Nob Posts: 200
    supersonic wrote:
    The 5 Pro has Mavic XM317! And has Tech X2 brakes.... These are pretty flimsy, and in the case of the brakes, underpowered. RX1and XT rims are in a different league on the Lap, and with the Canyon, pretty much all of it is. Plus and I and loads more prefer XT hubs. You could say the Pro didn't know what it was with that build ;-)

    TBH you can argue about individual spec parts all day long, is swings and roundabouts to an extent. Not many bikes at RRP are particularly good, and many may have compromises for some people. With many of these bikes, frame only and custom building is a good way forward. Or buying very cheap in sales and swapping some parts. That way you get the bike you want for your dough.

    One good thing about Orange is that you can customise spec from factory, but does add a bit on. I'd like to see some same price swaps available here like to say an XT or Mavic Wheelset, Formula brakes as I think would open up the door to more people.

    Matter of opinion of course! But personally, I found the XT wheelset to be crap. Which was kinda echo'd in the fact I could barely even give them away. Lot's of people selling them for peanuts as no-one seems to want them. Formula brakes - bit Marmite really.

    The Canyon, not even really sure where to start. Looks on paper to be good value, but delve into it a little more. 68.5 HA, on an AM bike? Hello 5 years ago! Thought we had gone past the stage of riding long travel XC bikes ;) 1550g XC wheelset on an AM bike? Maybe if they were tougher, like the Haven Carbons... It's just a mishmash of shiny bits. They could have spec'd it far more suitably, and it could have come out cheaper.

    Still, I agree - the way forward on any bike over a certain value surely has to be a custom build. Then there is never a compromise on the spec for you. Funnily enough thats where the Orange starts to look better value. It's way cheaper than the £2k+ boutique frames, yet it is sits above the likes of Saracen with the Ariel and the cheap as chips (but what would appear to be a crappy quality frame) Nukeproof Mega.

    This is where the likes of Lapierre (and Spec, Trek, etc) are missing a trick, in not offering frame only options.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Master of opinion?
    In what sense, exactly? 317s are among Mavic's entry level range, and as for the brakes, I assure you he has not only experience of them, but dyno test results as well.
    You, would be the opinionated one.
  • dubmodder
    dubmodder Posts: 100
    Hob Nob is spot on though.

    And he said matter of opinion, not master :wink:

    Just off to ride my overweight, under spec'd, single pivot.

    Have fun.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Oh yeah!
    Damn my bleary eyed reading.
    Still it's really not a matter of opinion.
  • Hob Nob
    Hob Nob Posts: 200
    Opinion based on experience?

    If only dyno test results showed the full picture

    :)
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Hob Nob wrote:
    Opinion based on experience?

    If only dyno test results showed the full picture

    :)
    When it comes to brakes and their power, what the hell else do you WANT to know? :roll:
  • Hob Nob
    Hob Nob Posts: 200
    Brakes are not just about power though are they? Power is just one of many factors to be considered.

    If I wanted ultimate stopping power, i'd just stuff a stick through my spokes. No brake can lock a wheel that quickly.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Hob Nob wrote:
    Brakes are not just about power though are they? Power is just one of many factors to be considered.

    If I wanted ultimate stopping power, i'd just stuff a stick through my spokes. No brake can lock a wheel that quickly.
    supersonic wrote:
    and in the case of the brakes, underpowered.
    I really don;t get your point. Are you making apologies for hope brakes having less power than (for example) Deores, purely because you like the "feel" of them?
    Feel is one thing, but it's ultimately pointless if the brakes lack power.
  • Hob Nob
    Hob Nob Posts: 200
    I really don't get yours either?

    I'm making no apologies for Hope, i'm just being the ying to your yang.

    Feel is indeed one thing, along with many others. But as I said previously, power is just one of those many others too.

    Power is one thing, but it's ultimately pointless if the brakes have no feel :wink:

    Otherwise we would all be using the stick in the spokes approach. Or just a big stop button on the bars.
  • benpinnick
    benpinnick Posts: 4,148
    Feel is pointless without power. Power is functional without feel. I'd take almost any brake over hope as they lack power.
    A Flock of Birds
    + some other bikes.
  • Hob Nob
    Hob Nob Posts: 200
    In your opinion of course.

    In mine, they are both as important as each other, along with a number of other factors.

    Unfortunately, I don't think there is any 'perfect' brake out there. There is always a compromise on something. Bit like bikes really.
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    Hob Nob, frankly, trying to have a sensible discussion with you makes me feel physically sick, because it's like talking to a rather slow wall.
    Sonic said the brakes are underpowered, and that 317 rims are rather flimsy. There is no opinion in that, it's just the way it is. YOU later mentioned feel. And you didn't even have a reference point. Better feel than what, exactly?
    Frankly, I give up on you. Go and shove your hopes where the sun don't shine.
    I have no time for insane fanboys.[/u]

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