@ Genesis Equilibrium riders

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  • cycleowl
    cycleowl Posts: 8
    Thanks styxd, that's really helpful - excusing naivete, but would pads really have that much impact on stopping power? Should I be able to brake urgently from the hoods or is it generally accepted that you will need to go into the drops in most instances (descending/sudden traffic etc?)...

    ...I'm not sure I'm going to fit mudguards at this stage so the long drops aren't essential. I guess I could put the Veloce caliper on the front and see if that makes any difference?
  • styxd
    styxd Posts: 3,234
    I can brake fairly "urgently" from the hoods. But the position of the levers, brand of levers, size of hands, strength of fingers will all make a difference!

    You need long drop brakes whether you are using mudguards or not, due to the position of the caliper mounting holes.
  • jonny_trousers
    jonny_trousers Posts: 3,588
    The Shimano BR451s are supposedly Ultagra quality and are not that expensive. Way better than Tektro. Treat yourself!
  • UndercoverElephant
    UndercoverElephant Posts: 5,796
    I use the R650 brakes, which work well - especially with good pads. Problem with drop-bar braking is that you're going so much faster, it takes longer to stop.
    Sun - Rain - Snow
  • cycleowl
    cycleowl Posts: 8
    Hmm, just found them for £38 the pair, which is incredibly reasonable! So consensus is these, with some of the higher quality pads mentioned above, should significantly improve my braking ability? Any remaining lack of urgency will have to be down to my weak fingers....
  • styxd
    styxd Posts: 3,234
    Try rose bikes for the calipers, think they are about £20 or so.
  • nigglenoo
    nigglenoo Posts: 177
    If you have small hands like me you may benefit from adjusting the reach of the brake lever closer, method for doing this is dependent of STI model, look it up on Shimano Tech Docs or in the manual if it came with bike.

    You could try better pads before shelling out on new callipers, e.g. try SwissStop green or Koolstop Salmon or dual compound, these will also cause less wear to you rims than Tektro OEM pads (or Shimano) in my experience.

    I have been pretty happy with my Tektro R737 callipers which I fitted with Koolstop dual comp from the start and now have SwissStop green in. However I have not met a calliper brake that brakes as well from the hoods as can a V-brake on a straight bar bike, so on fast or twisty descents I always brake from the drops.

    EDIT: the reason they don't fit 105 callipers is that the bike needs deep drop brakes, but the reason they don't fit Shimano deep drop brakes is profit margins.
  • cycleowl
    cycleowl Posts: 8
    Thanks again, that's really helpful! And, again displaying my complete lack of technical knowledge - will these pads fit into the 'shoes' of the pads supplied with the bike or do I need to buy a set of pads with shoes supplied as well? Trying to change the pads first before getting new calipers makes sense to me...

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Swissstop-Fla ... 27d13f8fa1

    Cheers
  • nigglenoo
    nigglenoo Posts: 177
    cycleowl wrote:
    Thanks again, that's really helpful! And, again displaying my complete lack of technical knowledge - will these pads fit into the 'shoes' of the pads supplied with the bike or do I need to buy a set of pads with shoes supplied as well? Trying to change the pads first before getting new calipers makes sense to me...

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Swissstop-Fla ... 27d13f8fa1

    Cheers
    Hi, from looking on the Genesis website specs it appears that the Equilibrium 20 uses Tektro R317 brakes like these: http://compare.ebay.co.uk/like/36063153 ... r&_lwgsi=y which come with all-in-one pads that do not allow replacement of the braking material separately (sorry I did not know that, I built mine up from a frame with brakes of my choice), rather than the more upmarket Dura Ace/Ultegra cartridge type pads with metal carriers, which have a tiny allen screw in the back for retaining the removable pads, like these:

    $%28KGrHqZ,!lQFCzoE65gtBQ7Dncl4qQ~~60_35.JPG

    Unfortunately you cannot get the all-in-one type of pad from Koolstop or SwissStop as far as I am aware, which means you would need sets with the metal pad carriers included as in pic above, e.g. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Kool-Stop-Bra ... 0646457%26 This is going to cost you £40 for a full bike set but at least you get spare pads with each and future insert replacements will work out cheaper and give you the freedom to experiment with SwissStop or other brfands as they are all the same 'Shimano' fitment (some BBB brand ones are supposed to be good as well, just don't buy Campag ones as they are a different fitment).

    Alternatively as others have suggested you could buy some better quality callipers which do come with the pad carriers, either Shimano R650 (£60 a set!) http://www.tweekscycles.com/Product.do? ... r%20Brakes & http://www.tweekscycles.com/Product.do? ... tAodYHQAfA and live with the Shimano pads until worn out (Shimano pads are preferable to Tektro OEM pads but still a bit hard on rims IME), or Tektro R737 (£35 a set) http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-t ... Googlebase and fit better pad inserts straight away (i.e. total cost £57).

    None of this is cheap and I have never used the Shimano R650s, so cannot compare with my Tektro R737s. The Shimanos have a good rep, but as you see are expensive. In fact I cannot really say that the pad swap only approach will bring that much benefit either, I just suspect it.

    EDIT: Here are the BBBs complete with carriers for £22 for a full bike set: http://www.wheelies.co.uk/p60344/BBB-BB ... e=googleps could be worth a shot as the reviews seem good: http://road.cc/content/review/12663-bbb ... brake-pads
  • cycleowl
    cycleowl Posts: 8
    Thanks so much for your help, and taking the time, really appreciated! I think I'm definitely inclined to go for the BBB solution you suggest above and see if that boosts the stopping power.... but then slightly concerned that I'll regret not biting the bullet now and just spending a bit more on the R650s...

    ....arrrggghhh - I'm having decision-making paralysis! Money is tight at the moment having just bought the bike, but I can definitely find another £60+£30 for tyres if necessary, and definitely want to get brakes I can properly rely on and give the bike the components it deserves. Hmmm. Going to leave this decision until tomorrow I think - if anyone fancies making it for me, just shout!

    Again, all help very gratefully received - cheers!
  • thegibdog
    thegibdog Posts: 2,106
    Shimano R650s are a huge improvement over the Tektro R536s I had on my Equilibrium previously. They're usually around £50 for a full set at Ribble, although they're not in stock at the minute.
    https://gibworth.mypixieset.com
  • nigglenoo
    nigglenoo Posts: 177
    thegibdog wrote:
    Shimano R650s are a huge improvement over the Tektro R536s I had on my Equilibrium previously. They're usually around £50 for a full set at Ribble, although they're not in stock at the minute.
    Which pads did you have in the Tektros?
  • thegibdog
    thegibdog Posts: 2,106
    nigglenoo wrote:
    thegibdog wrote:
    Shimano R650s are a huge improvement over the Tektro R536s I had on my Equilibrium previously. They're usually around £50 for a full set at Ribble, although they're not in stock at the minute.
    Which pads did you have in the Tektros?
    Tried the standard pads and Shimano pads, Shimano pads were a little bit better but not much. I think there's just too much flex in the Tektro brakes; I found they were ok for slowing down but not that good for stopping! The Shimano R650s are pretty much as good as standard drop 105s.
    https://gibworth.mypixieset.com
  • sketchley
    sketchley Posts: 4,238
    +1 on r650s. Had swisstop green in tektro's before but it was the calliper flex that was the real problem, the change to r650s (with swisstop green) was immediate and very noticeable. However for me with both I found if too close to rim braking is nightmare, no leverage or something, so I have to have the brakes backed off a bit......
    --
    Chris

    Genesis Equilibrium - FCN 3/4/5
  • nigglenoo
    nigglenoo Posts: 177
    Sketchley wrote:
    +1 on r650s. Had swisstop green in tektro's before but it was the calliper flex that was the real problem, the change to r650s (with swisstop green) was immediate and very noticeable. However for me with both I found if too close to rim braking is nightmare, no leverage or something, so I have to have the brakes backed off a bit......
    I can believe that the R650s are the best, also if you look at the tech doc diagram they are the only deep drop brake I have seen with a proper ball bearing pivot, for the central pivot at least: http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/techd ... 625613.pdf

    As for the brake clearance, Shimano (and Tektro) recommend 3-4mm in total, i.e. 1.5-2mm each side of the rim: http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/techd ... 735623.pdf but I had similar issues, particularly before I reduced the brake lever reach, so I suggest you look in to doing the same if you have not already.

    In my case I have Sora STIs which have a couple of different thickness shims that can be fitted above the top of the brake lever to reduce the lever reach, but some other STIs have different systems, e.g. an adjustment screw at the top. When buying new STIs these are supplied, so they should also be supplied with a new bike, my Spesh Allez had them attached in a poly bag with the Shimano leaflets when I bought it new:

    8636260831_7c16fab9c9.jpg
  • HoboJones
    HoboJones Posts: 3
    Hello all. Signed up on the back of this thread for a little advice. Considering a Equilibrium 20 as a present to myself (on the occasion of my return to the UK after many years overseas). Afraid it's the standard question - anyone out there 6 foot 3 (maybe 4) or so and ride one of these beauties? 34" (I think) leg.

    If so, is it the 60cm frame for sure? And how's the geometry for us taller chaps?
  • sketchley
    sketchley Posts: 4,238
    HoboJones wrote:
    Hello all. Signed up on the back of this thread for a little advice. Considering a Equilibrium 20 as a present to myself (on the occasion of my return to the UK after many years overseas). Afraid it's the standard question - anyone out there 6 foot 3 (maybe 4) or so and ride one of these beauties? 34" (I think) leg.

    If so, is it the 60cm frame for sure? And how's the geometry for us taller chaps?

    I'm 6ft inside leg is 30" the large (57) is fine in fact any bigger would be too big. I guess you'll need one up. Evans stock these bikes goto one ask to test ride it, they will get one in for you to test providing a shop somewhere has one in stock.
    --
    Chris

    Genesis Equilibrium - FCN 3/4/5
  • UndercoverElephant
    UndercoverElephant Posts: 5,796
    I'm that size, though maybe with shorter legs and a longer torso. I ride the 60 cm, and it's perfect for me, still a little more upright than my race bike, but thoroughly enjoyable.
    Sun - Rain - Snow
  • porlyworly
    porlyworly Posts: 441
    6"1 with roughly 34" inside leg and I'm on a 58cm so reckon you'll definitely need the next size up
    First love - Genesis Equilibrium 20
    Dirty - Forme Calver CX Sport
    Quickie - Scott CR1 SL HMX
    Notable ex's - Kinesis Crosslight, Specialized Tricross
  • samsbike
    samsbike Posts: 942
    What its worth?

    As I am considering getting a croix de fer, simply because I would like a disc braked bike.

    My equilibrium 10, is a 2010 model in black, size 56. New cassette, chain and rear cable all about 200 miles ago ish.

    Currently has sks mudguards and M+ tires.

    cheers
  • jonny_trousers
    jonny_trousers Posts: 3,588
    samsbike wrote:
    What its worth?

    As I am considering getting a croix de fer, simply because I would like a disc braked bike.

    My equilibrium 10, is a 2010 model in black, size 56. New cassette, chain and rear cable all about 200 miles ago ish.

    Currently has sks mudguards and M+ tires.

    cheers

    £450ish?
  • HoboJones
    HoboJones Posts: 3
    PorlyWorly wrote:
    6"1 with roughly 34" inside leg and I'm on a 58cm so reckon you'll definitely need the next size up

    Thanks. Will be test riding one - but don't want to mess my local store around with multiple sizes if I can avoid it. Sounds like, as expected, I'll be trialling the largest.
  • samsbike
    samsbike Posts: 942
    Jonny_Trousers wrote:
    samsbike wrote:
    What its worth?

    As I am considering getting a croix de fer, simply because I would like a disc braked bike.

    My equilibrium 10, is a 2010 model in black, size 56. New cassette, chain and rear cable all about 200 miles ago ish.

    Currently has sks mudguards and M+ tires.

    cheers

    £450ish?

    Thanks
  • chris217
    chris217 Posts: 218
    guys , hope you will excuse my interrupting however i need some help;

    i am looking to change from a Spesh SL3 to an Equilibrium, reasons ? i am looking for sonething more practical that I can ride , commute , long distance endurance, train and sportive on come rain or shine !

    and want to avoid the fragility of carbon , as while carbon is not paper i would still rather lean a steel bike up against a brick wall or metal fence than a carbon bike ..

    issue is weight and losing the snap acceleration ...which i will but wondered whether there are any carbon to steel converts who have good experience. i was just concerned about a few comments saying the Genesis was 'ponderous' and slow. i am aware the steel ride is completely different and i will be getting a frame and putting an Ultegra / dura ace groupset with DT Swiss wheels so it will probably be fine but need some reassurance as i am not quite ready to join the local audax club ( nothing wrong with that ) and still want to be 'competative....
    cheers for any input
  • Phil Earl
    Phil Earl Posts: 27
    Hi Chris

    I've got an Equilibrium 20 with 105 and have recently bought a Giant TCR Advanced with Ultegra. I'm not that much quicker on the Giant - maybe 0.5 to 1mph average over most rides.
  • chris217
    chris217 Posts: 218
    cheers phil, i am leaning towards the steel ...and i dont race so feel it should be fine.

    out of interest , which do you prefer riding ?

    is the Genesis noticably more comfortable ?

    cheers again
  • UndercoverElephant
    UndercoverElephant Posts: 5,796
    Chris217 wrote:
    cheers phil, i am leaning towards the steel ...and i dont race so feel it should be fine.

    out of interest , which do you prefer riding ?

    is the Genesis noticably more comfortable ?

    cheers again

    http://app.strava.com/activities/49529916

    Me on my Equilibrium on Thursday. The Equilibrium is certainly no slouch, but it is heavier than a top-end carbon bike, so it doesn't accelerate as fast, but that's not the whole story, as the compliance of the frame keeps the wheels solid over rougher roads, so you can keep all the power on the road. Comfort is superb too, like riding a magic carpet.
    Sun - Rain - Snow
  • jonny_trousers
    jonny_trousers Posts: 3,588
    On the flat I can't imagine there's much to notice, but on climbs...

    The Equilibrium certainly doesn't feel sluggish, but it's inevitably going to be heavier than carbon or aluminium, and I would suspect less stiff. As a do-all bike there can't be much better out there, but if you're after something really nippy then you may be better looking elsewhere. I really love mine, but I'm on the lookout for something quicker, lighter and stiffer too.
  • Phil Earl
    Phil Earl Posts: 27
    Chris217 wrote:
    cheers phil, i am leaning towards the steel ...and i dont race so feel it should be fine.

    out of interest , which do you prefer riding ?

    is the Genesis noticably more comfortable ?

    cheers again

    Only had the Giant for a few weeks and still getting used to a more stetched position so its a bit too soon to say. The Genesis is comfier but I'm not sure yet whether this is due to the position rather than the frame material.

    The Genesis still looks great though!
  • adebisi
    adebisi Posts: 52
    FYI

    Today I changed the headset of my Equilibrium 00 (2012 model), and showed the fork to a scale...

    Genesis Equilibrium 00 steel fork weight: 970g (frame size 56cm, crown race removed)

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