@ Genesis Equilibrium riders

jonny_trousers

menthel wrote:

Sketchley wrote:

menthel wrote:

Asprilla wrote:

menthel wrote:

So what is good in black and long drop then?

The best long drops are Shimano R650. Unfortunately only available in silver, but you'd be hard pressed to know they were long drops once they were on. I wouldn't look at anything else.

Shimano used to call them Ultegra Long Drop to give you an idea of the standard.

I thought that might be the answer. It seems a shame to spoil the nice colour scheme but I think stopping might be more important!

Paint them?

Good brakes though, it was the final solution on mine....

I think I will be able to live with silver brake calipers! If it was on the italia on the other hand I might cry like a baby.

Speak to Condor. I have their long drop breaks in black on my Equilibrium (taken from a Fratello) and I believe they are re-badged Ultegras. Even if they're not they're great brakes.

samsbike

styxd wrote:

Mark__gti wrote:

Equilibrium disc

Made from Reynolds 631 (is this better or worse than 725?)

I'd be tempted to change as the black looks much better than orange

Discs look much worse than rim brakes though!

Can't help thinking that's a bit of a pointless bike. Looks very heavy, fair enough if all you want it for is to commute in wet weather, but then you may aswell buy the croix de fer and have the option of using a rack aswell.

+1, as a commuter/ tourer the croix de fer is probably better and more versatile. Also I am not sure why the 631 frameset is better than 725. My understanding is there are quite similar with the 725 being allowed to be used by other companies and the former restricted to certain builders (according to Madison).

UndercoverElephant

samsbike wrote:

styxd wrote:

Mark__gti wrote:

Equilibrium disc

Made from Reynolds 631 (is this better or worse than 725?)

I'd be tempted to change as the black looks much better than orange

Discs look much worse than rim brakes though!

Can't help thinking that's a bit of a pointless bike. Looks very heavy, fair enough if all you want it for is to commute in wet weather, but then you may aswell buy the croix de fer and have the option of using a rack aswell.

+1, as a commuter/ tourer the croix de fer is probably better and more versatile. Also I am not sure why the 631 frameset is better than 725. My understanding is there are quite similar with the 725 being allowed to be used by other companies and the former restricted to certain builders (according to Madison).

But you're forgetting the fact that the Equilibrium has road bike geometry, albeit comfort oriented, which makes for a much faster ride than CX-based Croix de Fer.

When I catch up with a CdF rider, I know it's going to be an easy pass, when the rider is on an Equilibrium, I know I'm going to have more trouble.

fossala

UndercoverElephant wrote:

samsbike wrote:

styxd wrote:

Mark__gti wrote:

Equilibrium disc

Made from Reynolds 631 (is this better or worse than 725?)

I'd be tempted to change as the black looks much better than orange

Discs look much worse than rim brakes though!

Can't help thinking that's a bit of a pointless bike. Looks very heavy, fair enough if all you want it for is to commute in wet weather, but then you may aswell buy the croix de fer and have the option of using a rack aswell.

+1, as a commuter/ tourer the croix de fer is probably better and more versatile. Also I am not sure why the 631 frameset is better than 725. My understanding is there are quite similar with the 725 being allowed to be used by other companies and the former restricted to certain builders (according to Madison).

But you're forgetting the fact that the Equilibrium has road bike geometry, albeit comfort oriented, which makes for a much faster ride than CX-based Croix de Fer.

When I catch up with a CdF rider, I know it's going to be an easy pass, when the rider is on an Equilibrium, I know I'm going to have more trouble.

I think that is more about the mentality of the rider. Good luck passing me on my croix de fer (unless I have racks and panniers on).

menthel

Jonny_Trousers wrote:

menthel wrote:

Sketchley wrote:

menthel wrote:

Asprilla wrote:

menthel wrote:

So what is good in black and long drop then?

The best long drops are Shimano R650. Unfortunately only available in silver, but you'd be hard pressed to know they were long drops once they were on. I wouldn't look at anything else.

Shimano used to call them Ultegra Long Drop to give you an idea of the standard.

I thought that might be the answer. It seems a shame to spoil the nice colour scheme but I think stopping might be more important!

Paint them?

Good brakes though, it was the final solution on mine....

I think I will be able to live with silver brake calipers! If it was on the italia on the other hand I might cry like a baby.

Speak to Condor. I have their long drop breaks in black on my Equilibrium (taken from a Fratello) and I believe they are re-badged Ultegras. Even if they're not they're great brakes.

I realised this the other day when I looked at my italia, it has their long drops on it!

samsbike

having now read the blurb on road.cc, its much more interesting as it will take 28 sized tires and mudguards. Its not like at around 10kg, I wonder what the croix de fer weighs.

It would be nice to have that fork and some disc brakes on the current equilibrium, not to bothered about not having discs in the back.

asprilla

Theoretically it will take guards because it has mounting points but getting the guard stays around the disc callipers looks like it will be problematic at the rear.

UndercoverElephant

Asprilla wrote:

Theoretically it will take guards because it has mounting points but getting the guard stays around the disc callipers looks like it will be problematic at the rear.

Not a problem, just a case of bending the stays of the guards.

asprilla

Been there and failed miserably. As soon as you start having to do stuff like that its just going to get annoying for most folks with tyre rub etc.

Pity, its a lovely bike. Don't understand why they didn't just mount the calliper on the chain stay.

veronese68

It said something about fitting the caliper inside the triangle would mean altering the geometry to much. I wonder if with time manufacturers will find a way round it as it makes sense to have the caliper within the rear triangle as it can act as it's own brace as well as allowing mudguards and racks to be fitted more easily. Possibly a smaller caliper, although this would mean a non standard mount, or to use a larger disc with a less powerful caliper.

Gallywomack

A long nut/spacer thingy seems to be the most common solution, that's what I'm contemplating for the Pompino with Pompetamine (disk) fork build that I'm not doing very much about atm:



I find fitting guards a bit of a ball-ache anyway so can see this being very annoying to get right. I'm sure once it's on it's fine though.

veronese68

My Kinesis frame came with a little right angled bracket to attach guards to the disc mount like this:

asprilla

Veronese68 wrote:

My Kinesis frame came with a little right angled bracket to attach guards to the disc mount like this:

That is some high quality problem solving.

DrLex

Asprilla wrote:

That is some high quality problem solving.

And has the benefit of being achievable with a small strip of metal, pliers and a drill, or perhaps a small corner brace and hacksaw.
*files solution away for possible Hakkalugi-based future*

menthel

Loving my 00. Knocks the spots off my old charge and is a different beast to the Italia. Although its heavier than the Italia, the geometry is more aggressive and being steel it really responds when you put your foot down. The Italia eats up miles whilst being fast and comfortable. The 00 feels like it wants to go more quickly but I think that I wouldn't want to do longer rides on it (100km+). Bargain for £680 though and the sora has surprised me in that it seems responsive and more than up to the job.

UndercoverElephant

Asprilla wrote:

Don't understand why they didn't just mount the calliper on the chain stay.

Just saw the answer to this on a blog. Apparently, as the Equilibrium has the standard, short chainstays of a road bike, and has a 135mm wheel spacing, you run into a lot of problems with heel-striking if you mount the caliper on the chainstay.

wastegate86

Don't seem to have that problem on other bikes such as the lynskey sportive

davmaggs

I just wanted to annouce that I got an equilibrium 20 last night, and am feeling very pleased with myself.

And, I found this morning that the brakes are just as rubbish as people say (almost creamed into a bus at a roundabout) so I'll be going back through this thread to work out the options. It felt like the new bike was going to be wrecked on day one.

Does anyone have a pannier rack attached, got a recommendation?

PS: why or why did they print a slogan on the frame? It's like some rubbish American sportswear marketing campaign

asprilla

davmaggs wrote:

And, I found this morning that the brakes are just as rubbish as people say (almost creamed into a bus at a roundabout) so I'll be going back through this thread to work out the options. It felt like the new bike was going to be wrecked on day one.

Shimano R650s; when you absolutely, positively have to stop, accept no substitutes.

menthel

davmaggs wrote:

I just wanted to annouce that I got an equilibrium 20 last night, and am feeling very pleased with myself.

And, I found this morning that the brakes are just as rubbish as people say (almost creamed into a bus at a roundabout) so I'll be going back through this thread to work out the options. It felt like the new bike was going to be wrecked on day one.

Does anyone have a pannier rack attached, got a recommendation?

PS: why or why did they print a slogan on the frame? It's like some rubbish American sportswear marketing campaign

I fitted Koolstop Salmons to mine. Deffo safer than the brakepads supplied. I will swap out the calipers at some point for either the shimanos that everyone raves over or the Condor black longdrops the same as my italia.

asprilla

On the subject of brake pads; Swissstop BXP blues absolutely knock Koolstop Salmon and Swissstop GXP greens into a cocked hat.

They are brilliant in all conditions.

davmaggs

Asprilla wrote:

davmaggs wrote:

And, I found this morning that the brakes are just as rubbish as people say (almost creamed into a bus at a roundabout) so I'll be going back through this thread to work out the options. It felt like the new bike was going to be wrecked on day one.

Shimano R650s; when you absolutely, positively have to stop, accept no substitutes.

Thanks for that, I'm going to browse the online shops today. I don't want to be in the local paper as a roundabout suicide.

How the R650s are silver, boo hiss! And, I don't reckon Hammerite will look good

sketchley

Asprilla wrote:

davmaggs wrote:

And, I found this morning that the brakes are just as rubbish as people say (almost creamed into a bus at a roundabout) so I'll be going back through this thread to work out the options. It felt like the new bike was going to be wrecked on day one.

Shimano R650s; when you absolutely, positively have to stop, accept no substitutes.

+1. If you buy anything else or start by upgrading pads first you'll only end up back at this point anyway and waste some money on the way better to bite the bullet now. £55 for a pair here http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/sp/road-t ... himbrar360 stock pads are fine for summer, you'll be wanting to upgrade them when it gets wet.

Condor do a black long drop http://www.condorcycles.com/Brakes-Leve ... e.tpl.html. Someone suggested these actually Shimano R650s painted and rebadged I have no idea if this is true or not so suggest speaking with Condor about it as difficult to tell from pictures. I also cannot comment on qulaity of these either way as never used them.

davmaggs

Thanks Sketchley. I'd love to stay with black, but I'd only want to spend the cash on the Condor set if someone could personally say that they'd used them. I can't see the economics of dipping genuine Shimano in black paint, so I suspect that they are a good copy.

Following the feedback on here I'm go to upgrade the pads tonight using ones off my now obsolete commuter, but get onto ordering Shimano (or Condor if someone can verify the idea) in the next few days. Rubbish brakes have taken the edge off the glow.

menthel

I have those condor brakes on the other bike. They are very stoppy when compared to the stock genesis ones. I can't tell you whether or not they are R650's but they are better than the swiss cheese supplied as stock!

sketchley

It will feel like a different bike with the the r650 ons you'll have much more confidence in the bike and you'll get to enjoy the really fun bit of the Equalibirum, stupid fast decending, knowing you can actually stop at the bottom. The other thing you could try in the meantime is to leave a bit of a gap between pad and rim I found this helped me lever better on the tekros, but this is no subsitute for a decent caliper.

I'd suggest a call to Condor ask them direct about them.

sketchley

Looking at the pictures again, particuarly the quick release they are most certainly not rebadged R650s.

davmaggs

Would the Shimano BR-R451s be up to the job, they appear to be up to 57mm and come in black?

(if anything the Condor molding seems like these ones)

asprilla

davmaggs wrote:

Would the Shimano BR-R451s be up to the job, they appear to be up to 57mm and come in black?

(if anything the Condor molding seems like these ones)

Dunno, never tried them. However, I can tell you that the R-650s are every bit as good as the Force callipers on my Scott and better than the Athena callipers on my SS.

Shimano used to brand them as Ultegra Deep Drop.

sketchley

No idea, they would be better than the Tektros but that' not hard. I think the difference is Tiagra to Ultegra between the 451 and 650s. I'd suggest making a decision based on how much you weigh. If you have few extra pounds like me then the 650 are probably a better bet.