Golden Cheetah v2 released into the wild

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Comments

  • bigpikle
    bigpikle Posts: 1,690
    brilliant - thanks 8)

    A manual would be VERY helpful, but I know the kind of work involved in doing that! The problem is new users like me that are also new to these type of training tools, so need more help than those with knowledge of the other options out there. Might be inevitable as GC starts to break through further....

    thanks for all the support here.
    Your Past is Not Your Potential...
  • bigpikle
    bigpikle Posts: 1,690
    ...and now I get how to I can tailor GC a little more to better use it as a workout log.

    Presumably all the fields such as 'workout code' etc can be used for whatever I want to record about the type of workout I'm doing? I now see how I can add additional fields to each workout where i could log additional data about sleep, weather, general feeling of fatigue, motivation etc etc.

    I assume that if I add a totally new field somewhere then its possible to customise some form of report to show it as well? eg show all rides where motivation was <5/10 etc or where sleep was rated as 1 etc?

    I'm running away with it a bit already as I'm prone to do but I'd like to give some thought to how best to set this up as a full log. Once I customise stuff is there a way to save it in the case of a crash or a desire to use the same setup on a different computer as well?

    Thanks
    Your Past is Not Your Potential...
  • liversedge
    liversedge Posts: 1,003
    Bigpikle wrote:
    ...and now I get how to I can tailor GC a little more to better use it as a workout log.

    Presumably all the fields such as 'workout code' etc can be used for whatever I want to record about the type of workout I'm doing? I now see how I can add additional fields to each workout where i could log additional data about sleep, weather, general feeling of fatigue, motivation etc etc.

    I assume that if I add a totally new field somewhere then its possible to customise some form of report to show it as well? eg show all rides where motivation was <5/10 etc or where sleep was rated as 1 etc?

    I'm running away with it a bit already as I'm prone to do but I'd like to give some thought to how best to set this up as a full log. Once I customise stuff is there a way to save it in the case of a crash or a desire to use the same setup on a different computer as well?

    Thanks

    So yes, customising the fields allows you to record whatever you want. We did that so non-cyclists can use it for whatever (e.g. swimmers/triathletes record lots of stuff).

    At present we don't do a lot with it, but there are developments in the works to show it on a calendar, filter/search workouts when charting, and customising the ride summary to show whatever you want.

    Its a new feature, so start collecting/recording data now and it will be more useful in the future... some of the code will come out in the next couple of months too (e.g. workout diary). There are some screen grabs on my blog.

    The setup is all stored in metadata.xml which can be found in your ride directory (the about box tells you the path name, click on it to open that directory). If you save metadata.xml somewhere you will have it backed up. I';d backup the whole directory myself since you probably want to save your rides too :)
    --
    Obsessed is just a word elephants use to describe the dedicated. http://markliversedge.blogspot.com
  • richa
    richa Posts: 1,632
    Mark,

    GC starting to look v.good. I just need to learn how to use it and what to do with the data...

    Can the diary sync with Google Calendars (or similar)? Be nice to see what is diarised when away from the pc (i.e. at work, on iphone, etc).

    Rich
    Rich
  • liversedge
    liversedge Posts: 1,003
    RichA wrote:
    Mark,

    GC starting to look v.good. I just need to learn how to use it and what to do with the data...

    Can the diary sync with Google Calendars (or similar)? Be nice to see what is diarised when away from the pc (i.e. at work, on iphone, etc).

    Rich

    The diary view is not in v2, it is a feature planned for 'v3' (but may be released sooner, and certainly will be available in the development builds over at http://goldencheetah.stand2surf.net soonish).

    It supports reading any webcal url, so TrainingPeaks.com works (thats what I am using it with) but also Google Calendar too. It will also read iCal files (.ics) which are used by a LOT of calendar applications. Support for MS Exvhange is unlikely tho.

    It is read only at the moment, but we're working on it... (it needs a server, so we could code up to use the Google Calendar api first).

    In short, yes we want to support Google Calendar as a 'master' calendar, but its not in the current stable release. :)
    --
    Obsessed is just a word elephants use to describe the dedicated. http://markliversedge.blogspot.com
  • joeyhalloran
    joeyhalloran Posts: 1,080
    How do I paste a screen shot of my graphs? Like above, I am still a little confused by all the graphs.

    If I plot "Skiba PM" for the last month it shows an upwards trend in both STS and LTS and growing negative stress balance, this means I am becoming more fatigued and week on week my "stress" has been going up? This coincides because I have a rest week next week.
  • liversedge
    liversedge Posts: 1,003
    JoeyHalloran wrote:
    How do I paste a screen shot of my graphs? Like above, I am still a little confused by all the graphs.

    If I plot "Skiba PM" for the last month it shows an upwards trend in both STS and LTS and growing negative stress balance, this means I am becoming more fatigued and week on week my "stress" has been going up? This coincides because I have a rest week next week.

    Take a screenshot, upload it to imageshack.us (you don't need to register), copy the direct link and then post in your reply like this: [ img ] http://yadayada [ / img ] . When you post do a preview to make sure it works.
    --
    Obsessed is just a word elephants use to describe the dedicated. http://markliversedge.blogspot.com
  • joeyhalloran
    joeyhalloran Posts: 1,080
    liversedge wrote:

    You can seed the PM with starting values for LTS/STS - this is useful if you have a history of training and know for a fact that your starting training load was/is not zero!

    Should I put a guess in or just leave it as it is? I know my training loads wasn't 0 but have no idea what it was.
  • joeyhalloran
    joeyhalloran Posts: 1,080
    graph1h.jpg

    This is a graph of "skiba power",


    and

    graph2e.jpg

    is a graph of "skiba pm".

    I have only uploaded 4 weeks or so of riding, have entered my most recent FTP test result and started the LTS at 0. Could someone help explain these graphs to me?

    Thanks so much.
  • jibberjim
    jibberjim Posts: 2,810
    JoeyHalloran wrote:
    I have only uploaded 4 weeks or so of riding, have entered my most recent FTP test result and started the LTS at 0. Could someone help explain these graphs to me?

    So with only 4 weeks data, there's essentially insufficient data for it to be meaningful - it's your Long Term Stress - and 4 weeks isn't long. So the LTS and STS will just be rising (because you weren't really on 0 at the start of the 4 weeks but had all the stress from the previous weeks riding. Ths Stress Balance is showing as massively fatigued because of this. In reality you're nothing like as stress as it suggests - you need to load more data!

    The power graph is showing that you did not a lot of work on the first week (ending Nov 3 and then a little more every week until the last where you scaled it back. Peaking at 250/weak. This is not a particularly high training load (Even just in the workouts I have power for which is all I put into GC but ride without power commuting and offroad) I average at least 350 a week.

    The xPower numbers (the red line) show the typical intensity of the Training Load you do in the week - the higher the higher average intensity - again not really enough data.
    Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/
  • joeyhalloran
    joeyhalloran Posts: 1,080
    How often can you ride? I can normally only ride twice a week for about an hour to an hour and a half. Might get some more in over xmas.

    It looks good at the moment and obviously as I load in more data it will become more meaningful so I will carry on using it and I think I understand it a little better.

    Now just need to find out how to install the plug in which allows you to download a powertap from a USB cradle. Any ideas?

    BTW thanks for all your explanations.
  • tommyt
    tommyt Posts: 8
    Is anyone else having trouble opening this on mac?
    I am running tiger so not the latest OS but not old, it just won't open at all!!!
  • bigpikle
    bigpikle Posts: 1,690
    nope - no issues at all on Snow Leopard
    Your Past is Not Your Potential...
  • liversedge
    liversedge Posts: 1,003
    TommyT wrote:
    Is anyone else having trouble opening this on mac?
    I am running tiger so not the latest OS but not old, it just won't open at all!!!

    If you're on an power pc then we're looking into it.
    --
    Obsessed is just a word elephants use to describe the dedicated. http://markliversedge.blogspot.com
  • steelwheels
    steelwheels Posts: 94
    Just wondering if there is a Windows 64 bit version in the pipeline, just saw this working on a mates pc and it looks great but I am running Windows 7 64-bit ?
  • liversedge
    liversedge Posts: 1,003
    The 32-bit version runs fine on Win7-64, we have quite a few guys running it.

    TBH, I'm really don't know why we don't build a 64bit version, we already do that for Linux for example.
    --
    Obsessed is just a word elephants use to describe the dedicated. http://markliversedge.blogspot.com
  • fish156
    fish156 Posts: 496
    I tried GC in the past and the thing that put me off was that when I raced, using my PT as a "bike computer": PT head + speed sensor (no hub), GC appeared to get confused and made a hash of the data. Anyone know if this has been sorted in GCv2, or if it was simply operator error?
  • liversedge
    liversedge Posts: 1,003
    fish156 wrote:
    I tried GC in the past and the thing that put me off was that when I raced, using my PT as a "bike computer": PT head + speed sensor (no hub), GC appeared to get confused and made a hash of the data. Anyone know if this has been sorted in GCv2, or if it was simply operator error?

    Interesting, we have a lot of users now who don't use power meters and just use HR and the like. Give it a go, and if it still makes a hash of the data let us know, we would want to fix that!
    --
    Obsessed is just a word elephants use to describe the dedicated. http://markliversedge.blogspot.com
  • liversedge
    liversedge Posts: 1,003
    TommyT wrote:
    Is anyone else having trouble opening this on mac?
    I am running tiger so not the latest OS but not old, it just won't open at all!!!

    There is a new download specific for Power PC users on the downloads page that fixes the previous issues.
    --
    Obsessed is just a word elephants use to describe the dedicated. http://markliversedge.blogspot.com
  • fish156
    fish156 Posts: 496
    liversedge wrote:
    fish156 wrote:
    I tried GC in the past and the thing that put me off was that when I raced, using my PT as a "bike computer": PT head + speed sensor (no hub), GC appeared to get confused and made a hash of the data. Anyone know if this has been sorted in GCv2, or if it was simply operator error?

    Interesting, we have a lot of users now who don't use power meters and just use HR and the like. Give it a go, and if it still makes a hash of the data let us know, we would want to fix that!

    Installed GCv2 & imported an old race file where I've not used my PowerTap hub, but my race wheels. It appears to be happier with the reduced dataset. Previously, in this setup, it had thought my average power was 4000W - a little optimistic I thought, but who am I to argue with technology? ;-)

    I'll keep using it for a while & see how I go.
  • gandhi
    gandhi Posts: 187
    It looks great - I plan to dig out my TT bike and do some Aerolab testing in the new year.

    I've just imported my entire WKO history, and they've mostly worked, but there are some crazy values which are messing up some of the metrics. I can make it the problem go away by deleting the files, so it's no problem, but I guess it is a bug. Would you like the files?

    Edit: I think on these files I may have split a single WKO file into two (forgot to restart before a race or something), and I think that WKO hasn't edited the old file the way that you'd expect.
  • liversedge
    liversedge Posts: 1,003
    gandhi wrote:
    I've just imported my entire WKO history, and they've mostly worked, but there are some crazy values which are messing up some of the metrics. I can make it the problem go away by deleting the files, so it's no problem, but I guess it is a bug. Would you like the files?

    Makes sense... be good to see the files anyway :) I assume they're from wko 2.2 not 3.0 ?

    liversedge gmail com :)

    Cheers,
    Mark
    --
    Obsessed is just a word elephants use to describe the dedicated. http://markliversedge.blogspot.com
  • Alex_Simmons/RST
    Alex_Simmons/RST Posts: 4,161
    gandhi wrote:
    I've just imported my entire WKO history, and they've mostly worked, but there are some crazy values which are messing up some of the metrics.
    I've had same.
    RST Sport : Coaching - Training Plans - Powermeters -- My blog -- AeroCoach Australia
  • gandhi
    gandhi Posts: 187
    liversedge wrote:
    Makes sense... be good to see the files anyway :) I assume they're from wko 2.2 not 3.0 ?

    liversedge gmail com :)
    Email sent. Files are WKO 3.0.
  • bigpikle
    bigpikle Posts: 1,690
    so far things are working well using my HR data and its beginning to build an interesting picture for me.

    One question I have is how to add data from a run rather than a ride, so that I can add a TRIMP score to more accurately reflect fatigue. For example last week I was away on business all week and couldnt ride so went running a few times. I have HR data for that but if I simply added it as a ride then the relative TRIMP score would be too low, and without anything added it shows a significant drop in STS and LTS that also doesnt reflect reality?

    Is there any typical conversion figure to help me approximate a score? It strikes me that a 2x multiplier might be about right, so a 30 min steady endurance run would equate to 1 hour of the same on the bike?
    Your Past is Not Your Potential...
  • joeyhalloran
    joeyhalloran Posts: 1,080
    Can you only add HR data if you have the break up of zones?
  • bigpikle
    bigpikle Posts: 1,690
    JoeyHalloran wrote:
    Can you only add HR data if you have the break up of zones?

    not quite sure what you mean or if this is related to my question, but I have the HR data as captured by my 705 so its second by second data and not just averages etc.
    Your Past is Not Your Potential...
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    Odd thing going on with metrics...

    Just looking over the metrics for my entire history - and just selecting 1s peak power.

    In my top 5 results - it's giving me a couple of high values - but when I check the data for those specific days, my max power is nowhere near what shows up in the metrics.

    And even odder - is that these new values just seem to have appeared in the last day. :?


    They weren't there when I checked my metrics history yesterday. And I can't edit them out of the ride files as they aren't there!



    Any thoughts?
  • liversedge
    liversedge Posts: 1,003
    Pokerface wrote:
    Odd thing going on with metrics...

    Just looking over the metrics for my entire history - and just selecting 1s peak power.

    In my top 5 results - it's giving me a couple of high values - but when I check the data for those specific days, my max power is nowhere near what shows up in the metrics.

    And even odder - is that these new values just seem to have appeared in the last day. :?


    They weren't there when I checked my metrics history yesterday. And I can't edit them out of the ride files as they aren't there!



    Any thoughts?

    Try deleting metricDB from your ride file directory (click on the lin in the about box). The metrics will get refreshed when you replot. Do let us know if that fixes it.

    If they are still high after a refresh then if you could send me the file that generates the weird value i'll try and work out what is going wrong and raise a bug report.

    Cheers,
    Mark
    --
    Obsessed is just a word elephants use to describe the dedicated. http://markliversedge.blogspot.com
  • Pokerface
    Pokerface Posts: 7,960
    liversedge wrote:
    Try deleting metricDB from your ride file directory (click on the lin in the about box). The metrics will get refreshed when you replot. Do let us know if that fixes it.

    If they are still high after a refresh then if you could send me the file that generates the weird value i'll try and work out what is going wrong and raise a bug report.

    Cheers,
    Mark

    I fixed the problem - but am still unsure as to why it happened out of the blue.

    The offending values were from a few rides in the past 6 months. As I said - the metrics just went wonky in the past few days - even though these rides were entered ages ago.

    My going to the rides in questions and looking at the file second by second - I could see that for a few seconds - the values registered twice. On some rides I get error messages saying (for example) "Warning: 19.883 minutes into the ride, time jumps backwards by 0.050 minutes; ignoring it. "

    The ride file shows the same few seconds entered twice. So you get 19:08, 19:09, 19:20, 19:08, 19:09, 19:20, 19:21, etc...

    I can only assume the software took the values of each double entry and added them together?

    When looking at the overall ride - the max wattage for the ride is 'normal' - meaning it gives whatever the true max was. But when you use the 'find best intervals' function - it gives the false higher value - based on the overlapping seconds. This false value is also what shows up in the metrics function.

    By going into the ride file and editing out the overlapping sections, it all goes back to normal.

    WHEW!!!


    Makes sense?

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