Golden Cheetah v2 released into the wild

liversedge

Hi,

A quick note for the power meter users here, Golden Cheetah v2 has just been released. You can download for Windows, Mac and Linux here.

The release notes for 2.0 are:

New Features
Aerolab (Andy Froncioni)
View ride in Google Maps (Greg Lonnon)
Long Term Metrics (Mark Liversedge)
User configurable ride metadata (Mark Liversedge)
Ride editor and tools (Mark Liversedge)
HR Zones and TRIMP Metrics (Damien Grauser)
Twitter support (Justin Knotzke)

Internationalisation
Updates to French translation (Damien Grauser)
Japanese translation (Mitsukuni Sato)

New Logo and Icons
Golden Cheetah Logo(Dan Schmalz)

Enhanced Ride Plot
Ride plot stacked view (Damien Grauser)
Scrolling Ride Plot (Mark Liversedge)

New Devices and File Formats Supported
Support for Joule BIN File Format (Damien Grauser)
Tacx CAF Ride File Format Support (Ilja Booij)
Garmin FIT ride file support (Sean Rhea)
Export to Google Earth 5.2 KML (Mark Liversedge)
Training Peaks PWX ride file support (Mark Liversedge)
Polar SRD ride file support (Mark Liversedge)
Racermate CompCS/Ergvideo .TXT ride file support (Mark Liversedge)

sagalout

Thanks for that - will be downloading tonight

Pokerface

Downloaded it. Looks good. Was running their last test version and it's similar to that. Nice to see things like support for GPS (so my Garmin maps now show up).

Starting to become a fully functional bit of software now! Especially for us Mac users that can't run WKO+

magliaceleste

Yes indeed. I just wish there was a but more explanation around. The racing and training with a Power Meter book is obviously geared around WKO and although GC has a lot of similar features it's hard to equate some of them or understand what I'm being told.

There are also other things that have been added like the new "workout code" field etc but I can't understand where they are actually used.

Really has come on in leaps in bounds though. Good work!

liversedge

All the ride fields like workout code etc are configurable in options (look for ride data). We added this so people could record information about each ride, but not be limited to the fields we thought they would need i.e. ade it configurable.

We're looking at how we can add filters and searches to use this data. For now, its largely for capturing information or overriding metrics.

You can also hide them all by moving the horizontal splitter down.

Cheers,
Mark

incog24

Cheers for this. Open source freeware is the way forward

jibberjim

magliaceleste wrote:

GC has a lot of similar features it's hard to equate some of them or understand what I'm being told.

You could just ask your questions here!

bigpikle

I have a Garmin 705 and am a mac user, so GC looks interesting. I know its meant as a power analysis tool, but I'm wondering 2 things:

1. if I use my 705 as my CPU can I download (on a a mac) from the 705 to GC via USB? I tried so far and GC just tells me no device detected and I may need some drivers?

2. Is there much I could use GC for before I get a Powertap eg HR, zones, training load etc etc?

jibberjim

Bigpikle wrote:

1. if I use my 705 as my CPU can I download (on a a mac) from the 705 to GC via USB? I tried so far and GC just tells me no device detected and I may need some drivers?

Just drag the TCX files from the 705 (whereveritsmounted/garmin/history/ )directly into golden cheetah - or use ride import from _file_.

Bigpikle wrote:

2. Is there much I could use GC for before I get a Powertap eg HR, zones, training load etc etc?

Yep, you can do heart rate based training load.

bigpikle

thanks Jim - just had a go and its fast and easy to import huge numbers of sessions.

I think I need to study more about the training load as other than the standard reporting I cant see much.

I have to say that simply seeing the time spent at each HR is very helpful when analysing sessions.

jibberjim

Bigpikle wrote:

I think I need to study more about the training load as other than the standard reporting I cant see much.

General principles of tracking training load with HR
http://jibbering.com/blog/?p=535
Although based around SportTracks and not GC.

To see it in GoldenCheetah - open up options and make sure you have your HR zones set up in the Athlete (remember to backdate the start period and include min / max and LT - 25mile TT HR)

Then you can go to the Metrics tab and shift click the "Trimp Short Term Stress" and "Trimp Long Term Stress" Which are ATL and CTL equivalents which should show you the stress.

liversedge

The performance manager tab also allows you to display trimp based metrics, its the drop down box on the right.

Here is a screenshot

bigpikle

thanks guys - getting there gradually

I added my LTHR from a field test, so have that data now and can see the zones from that. Trouble is they dont quite reflect the zones recommended by the coach I spoke with. I can see how to edit them without any issues but then I lose the TRIMP scores and I assume they have some form of scientific basis for the default zones in GC?

I dont know enough yet about ATL, CTL, TRIMP etc yet to worry too much about it but will study your link Jim and see what the implications are for me. BTW liversedge the link to the Bikescore article is dead and I couldnt find anything on the linked site that helped with that.

I already like the additional analysis it offers me with time in zones etc and helping me look at and measure more carefully. My goal this next year is building up to some serious endurance rides, rather than racing, so time in endurance, tempo, sweetspot and threshold sessions is helpful. I also think it might give me a feel for exactly how much analysis and planning I want to do and hence whether the investment in a PT would be worthwhile.

Cheers guys

Pokerface

liversedge wrote:

All the ride fields like workout code etc are configurable in options (look for ride data). We added this so people could record information about each ride, but not be limited to the fields we thought they would need i.e. ade it configurable.

We're looking at how we can add filters and searches to use this data. For now, its largely for capturing information or overriding metrics.

You can also hide them all by moving the horizontal splitter down.

Cheers,
Mark

Didn't realize it was you that was responsible for this software? But if so - kudos!! It is excellent.

Quick question - WKO+ has the normalised power metric. GC does not - but is xPower the same thing?

Thanks!!

amaferanga

Pokerface wrote:

liversedge wrote:

All the ride fields like workout code etc are configurable in options (look for ride data). We added this so people could record information about each ride, but not be limited to the fields we thought they would need i.e. ade it configurable.

We're looking at how we can add filters and searches to use this data. For now, its largely for capturing information or overriding metrics.

You can also hide them all by moving the horizontal splitter down.

Cheers,
Mark

Didn't realize it was you that was responsible for this software? But if so - kudos!! It is excellent.

Quick question - WKO+ has the normalised power metric. GC does not - but is xPower the same thing?

Thanks!!

xPower and Bikescore

Pokerface

amaferanga wrote:

Pokerface wrote:

liversedge wrote:

All the ride fields like workout code etc are configurable in options (look for ride data). We added this so people could record information about each ride, but not be limited to the fields we thought they would need i.e. ade it configurable.

We're looking at how we can add filters and searches to use this data. For now, its largely for capturing information or overriding metrics.

You can also hide them all by moving the horizontal splitter down.

Cheers,
Mark

Didn't realize it was you that was responsible for this software? But if so - kudos!! It is excellent.

Quick question - WKO+ has the normalised power metric. GC does not - but is xPower the same thing?

Thanks!!

xPower and Bikescore

Thanks pal, but as I don't have a PHD, can you please explain all that in children's terms? :oops:

liversedge

To set and edit LT history, go to tools->options, Athlete HR Zones

You can see above that you can tweak the zones for this history item at the bottom.

If you want to set the default zones for all HR history click on the default zones and modify them as shown below:


Save that away.

When you go back to the metrics or PM tab the metrics are recalculated and will use the zones you specify.

liversedge

Pokerface wrote:

Thanks pal, but as I don't have a PHD, can you please explain all that in children's terms? :oops:

If you are familiar with WKO terms then basically;

NP == xPower
IF == Relative Intensity
VI == Variability Index
TSS = BikeScore
CTL = Long term stress
ATL = Short term stress

The algorithms are incredibly close and in fact, I have plotted the differences in the past and they are not worth worrying about. We don't use the WKO names because they are trademarks of Training peaks, but we have permission from Dr Phil Skiba to use his metrics.

If you are new to Dr Coggans metrics he has written a lot about this here.

As it happens the folks at TrainingPeaks are good guys, so you never know what they may or may not let us do in the future.

Pokerface

liversedge wrote:

Pokerface wrote:

Thanks pal, but as I don't have a PHD, can you please explain all that in children's terms? :oops:

If you are familiar with WKO terms then basically;

NP == xPower
IF == Relative Intensity
VI == Variability Index
TSS = BikeScore
CTL = Long term stress
ATL = Short term stress

The algorithms are incredibly close and in fact, I have plotted the differences in the past and they are not worth worrying about. We don't use the WKO names because they are trademarks of Training peaks, but we have permission from Dr Phil Skiba to use his metrics.

If you are new to Dr Coggans metrics he has written a lot about this here.

As it happens the folks at TrainingPeaks are good guys, so you never know what they may or may not let us do in the future.

Perfect - that's what I thought. Thanks for confirming it.

bigpikle

Thanks all for the links and info - Jim that is a VERY helpful article.

So now I have changed my HR zones in GC but the problem is I no longer have accurate TRIMP scores for those zones. Is there are way recalculate new factors based on my new zones or even to reset to the original default zones and use the correct numbers? I stupidly didnt write those all down before changing them :oops:

Jim, your article says the exact numbers arent so important and its about the shape of the trends etc, but with my newbie level of knowledge I'm not sure I could even approximate the TRIMP factor?

The HR zones I have used are as follows, based on max % of LTHR

rest/recovery <75
Z1 85%
Z2 95%
Z3 101%
Z4 105%
Z5 107%

The other challenge I have is that I dont carry my 795 when racing cyclocross but would like to add the sessions manually. I can enter lots of data, including the av HR (guestimate obviously) but cant add any specific data about time in zones, so it would add any TRIMP points for the race. As its an hour of full-on pain it represents quite a high workload yet isnt reflected in the S-T or L-T stress scores. As a result it appears my fitness is going down in the PM yet I'm pretty sure adding all these races in would change the picture quite radically. I guess in future I could put my 705 in a rear pocket or something and record the race data but my preference is to carry as little as possible that I might damage when I fall off!

I think I am starting to understand all this now and its going to be helpful. Because of my works schedule I have wildly fluctuating training time available week to week. I am hopeful that using the L-T and S-T Stress numbers I can at least attempt to schedule and target sessions at the right intensity to create progression over time and plan for recovery time as well. Please tell me if I am barking up the completely wrong tree here!

liversedge

Bigpikle wrote:

I stupidly didnt write those all down before changing them :oops:

I think a reset to defaults button would be helpful! Will add that.

the defaults are
0% 0.9
68% 1.1
83% 1.2
94% 2.0
105% 5.0

jibberjim

Bigpikle wrote:

The HR zones I have used are as follows, based on max % of LTHR

rest/recovery <75
Z1 85%
Z2 95%
Z3 101%
Z4 105%
Z5 107%

That's not a very typical range of zones - zones are such a varied thing and depends on how you use them there's no right answer really. Personally I have top of zone 4 being my 25mile TT heart rate so the numbers in my post were linked to that.

Bigpikle wrote:

Please tell me if I am barking up the completely wrong tree here!

Sounds reasonable, I'd think about using the default GC zones using your 25mile TT heart rate (all out 1 hour effort HR) in the box to calculate them - that way you get their zone system and their multipliers.

Pokerface

I have 7 zones - but mostly based on power output and not HR. Still, zone 4 also is my TT zone for power and HR.

bigpikle

those just suited the target areas for next year so changing to these means I can track time in the zones my coach recommended.

I was looking for an endurance, tempo, sweetspot and threshold zone where top of threshold was about my LTHR or just over. I added a rest zone as you described in the article Jim.

I'll look again at the defaults and see how I can use them initially.

joeyhalloran

Altered, sorry.

please see my next post

joeyhalloran

Ok, a couple of questions:

1) What is show stress balance today?

2) what is starting LTS?

3) Can someone explain how to use the "Daniels graphs" for STS and LTS and what they mean?

Thanks!

P.s. Loving GC so far, just so much I need to understand!

liversedge

I would recommend reading up on the performance manager from the links higher up the thread.

Show stress balance today, means instead of showing stress balance the day AFTER the ride, show it on the SAME day. It is not how the performance manager is supposed to work but a number of users expressed a desire to do that, I would leave it unchecked.

You can seed the PM with starting values for LTS/STS - this is useful if you have a history of training and know for a fact that your starting training load was/is not zero!

Danielspoints are just another algorithm for calculating 'TSS/NP' etc - so the Golden Cheetah PM supports; BikeScore metrics, TRIMP metrics or Danielspoints metrics.

liversedge

Should have added that Danielspoints reward higher intensity and are not time additive. Some folks prefer that to TSS-like algorithms.

On the metrics chart you can plot all three of them algorithms (and ramp-rate too if you're into that) and compare, sometimes the differences can be insightful. It's just horses for courses really.

bigpikle

I'm liking what I can do with GC even with just HR data right now and the whole concept of TSS is looking very valuable. I struggled to explain my recent 'good' cyclocross race performance but looking at the Stress Balance score that day it was + and much better than the - scores on the recent disappointing races...

One unanswered question is how to add TRIMP points to a workout when I dont have any HR data to add. I added an av HR but as it was a race I have a pretty good idea of the zone I spent the next hour in, so could add a reasoable approximation of the time in zones, but cant see how to do it. Its making the stress score quite a poor reflection of reality.

Is it a feature or do I just need to live with it and remember to get HR data in future?

jibberjim

JoeyHalloran wrote:

1) What is show stress balance today?

You'll have to ask Mark this one as I can't seem to make it do anything

JoeyHalloran wrote:

2) what is starting LTS?

When you start tracking your fitness, you don't really have a long term stress of 0 - you're not completely ant utterly unfit (well you might be, but you're an interesting character if you start off doing it) so this is how you preload your performance manager with how fit you are. Guess something reasonable. e.g. if you train typically for the first 2 weeks take a simple average of those 2 weeks scores and put that as the LTS, or anything that's reasonable. It doesn't matter much as it stops being relevant after a couple of months.

JoeyHalloran wrote:

3) Can someone explain how to use the "Daniels graphs" for STS and LTS and what they mean?

Read my blog post linked above. STS and LTS are just ATL and CTL under different names.

Thanks!

P.s. Loving GC so far, just so much I need to understand![/quote]

liversedge

You can manually 'override' or specify any metric on the Metrics tab at the bottom of ride summary. Since TRIMP points isn't one that is available by default you need to add it in config options:



Then for a ride with no HR data you can go and specify it manually:



This approach will work for ANY metric. And it is how manual rides work - you create a blank workout and specify the metrics manually (useful for rides on a gym bike, or cross training etc).

The lack of a manual is beginning to show isn't it!