Floyd -- he wrote us a letter...
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Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/teamradioshac ... z0oXYmCAh4Team RadioShack Team Manager Johan Bruyneel spoke to the press after Lance Armstrong, all prior to the start of the fifth stage of the Amgen Tour of California. Bruyneel responded to allegations from Floyd Landis of organized doping.
“I absolutely deny everything he said. I will reiterate a little more what Lance said. It’s not a surprise to us, we’ve been expecting this for a long time. Floyd started contacting us, me in particular, four years ago, almost as soon as he tested positive. He threatened, blackmail, whatever you want to call it, asking for certain things, asking for a job when he was able to race again. Obviously we did not respond to that request. From there on it’s been a constant roller coaster in that Floyd has changed his story too many times. He’s been saying something for four years. I’ve seen him on TV and in court. He wrote a book, set up a fund once he found out a legal defense is very expensive. All of a sudden this changes. He’s pointing at me, he’s pointing at Lance but he’s pointing to all the people that are still there. He even goes after Andy Rihs or Jim Ochowicz, all people who are still in the sport. For me it’s clear we’re dealing with someone who is bitter. To me Floyd has always been an angry person, sometimes for good, sometimes for bad. Sometimes he used anger in a race to motivate himself. But really he’s angry with the world. To me it sounds like he wants to drag down people that are still here and he’s enjoying this. There’s not so much else I can say about this. Except to say it’s another fact in a long line of things that happened in the past and coming from Floyd it’s no surprise."
(Regarding the timing) "You can ask what his drive is and I still don’t know. I know his team and his new personal sponsor had been trying to get into this race, so he was not only threatening us but also Andrew Messick and the sponsor of this race. They didn’t respond the way he wanted. Who knows? I think he finally found someone who wanted to write his story. I’m pretty sure some people standing here have had the story for a few weeks but didn’t give it any credibility, but now here we are. Who knows, maybe by the end of the race he shows up. I’d totally expect that too. It’s definitely an unpleasant fact and a distraction for this race and for us, but it’s nothing that I’m going to lose my sleep over.
"This (story) came late at night yesterday but it’s not like it all-of-a-sudden fell out of the sky. We’ve known since Sacramento, actually a little earlier. Obviously I was aware of it, Lance was aware of it, the teammates were aware of it. We’re going to try to not let it be a distraction as best we can. I’m going to go in the bus and talk about today’s stage and see how we can go about winning this race."
(In regards to the demands made by Landis)" He was basically asking for two things after his positive test in the Tour de France in 2006. First he has been asking us for money, a lot of money to help pay for his legal costs. (Asked if he gave him any) No, of course not or we wouldn’t be standing here. Also after his suspension was over on two occasions he has asked me for a job on the team, which also, of course, I didn’t respond positively to. The history shows that this is the time we’re going to talk about it and I hope we can address as much as we can but after I walk onto the bus, I’m done with it. We’re here for the Tour of California, this is a very important race for us, obviously Floyd chose this moment. Whether he first wanted to put pressure on the organization to put his team in the race and didn’t get it, then saw that all the doors were closed so he comes out with it when the Tour of California gets to a high point since tomorrow is the most important day…..his timing is obviously not a coincidence. For us basically this is nothing new."
(Rather than characterize it as extortion…) "I would rather call it a sad story. Knowing the personality, his history, having had him on the team, I mean we took Floyd on the team when he was in bad financial shape after the Mercury fiasco and he had no money. I remember he told me, “Luckily you got me on the team because I was almost forced to sell my house to pay my bills.” Since then I think it’s been up and down for Floyd and I would advise him to look for professional help, and I’m not talking about lawyers, I’m talking about other help.
"When I read the part of the email that said I’d taught him the doping, I thought, Wow, I must have some special qualifications. I deny this completely. This part just came out, these specific allegations against me I only learned of a few weeks ago. I’m not the only one who received this email. What can you do? We can say what we think and feel about it and say we feel bad for Floyd. He went from a high point and then basically two days later had lost everything he had. All the people in cycling received these emails, they were copied, so everyone knows what was said. This is another incident in a long line. To me it comes to what kind of credibility you can give to Floyd Landis after four years telling his story. I recently saw him on “Larry King Live” and he was talking about something else but if this is true then he’s been lying to everyone for four years. The credibility of Floyd Landis is really at a low point right now. I think he needs help.”Contador is the Greatest0 -
AP
Trying out the dope
Explaining how to dope
Contador is the Greatest0 -
Moray Gub wrote:Your statement was crass imo as iI dont really think you have looked at cancer survivor taking inspiration from Lance and felt sorry for them becuase of where they take their inspiration i really dont. So i stand by my viewpoint
Edited as posts being misquoted.0 -
A firm denial that an agreement was made in 2002, I suppose they will be issuing a similar statement for the 2001 tour too
http://www.uci.ch/Modules/ENews/ENewsDe ... LangId%3D1
Press release - UCI rejects accusations by Floyd Landis
Date:
20.05.2010
Description: The International Cycling Union (UCI) categorically rejects accusations made by Mr Floyd Landis, in particular the allegation that a positive doping result by Lance Armstrong during the 2002 Tour of Switzerland was concealed after an agreement was reached between the American rider, his directeur sportif Mr Johan Bruyneel and the former UCI President, Mr Hein Verbruggen.
Deeply shocked by the gravity of this statement, which considerably impinges on the honour of all persons who have dedicated themselves to the fight against doping, the UCI wishes to clearly state that it has never changed or concealed a positive test result.
The accusation by Mr Floyd Landis, guilty himself of a breach of the Anti-Doping Rules in 2006, is thus completely unfounded and the UCI can only express its outrage at this new attempt to harm the image of cycling. Our sport has long paid a heavy price for the fraudulent behaviour of individuals such as Floyd Landis and we cannot accept the principles governing our work being challenged in terms of their ethics and honesty by a person who has not hesitated to breach such principles.
By way of information, the UCI would like to point out that Lance Armstrong did not participate in the 2002 Tour of Switzerland.
Finally, the UCI wishes to make clear that it will undertake all necessary measures to defend its honour as well as the honour of all its executives who have been unfairly accused by Mr Floyd Landis.
UCI Press Service0 -
I take it they'll be addressing the actual allegation made in due course? Or sueing Landis if indeed it is such an unfounded slur."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
IanLD wrote:Have you not read what I have posted?
I have, and to be honest, asking anyone on an internet forum to "retract their statement" makes you come across as a pompous tw*t.
Fair enough if you pity people who believe the Lance Myth. I don't believe it either, but at the end of the day there has been no officially positive doping test that we know of. There have been plenty of rumors but nothing definitive.
I would be happy if this was the downfall of the Myth, and the beginning of the breaking of doping in cycling. It won't be though. Even if they eventually admit it, all that will happen is people will look for the next drug that can't be tested for.
The other result will be to destroy a foundation and a story that has helped and inspired so many people, and that I will regret.0 -
It's all a matter of faith, and as they say 'Faith is believing what you know isn't true'. All together now, ye faithful...Gazzetta67 wrote:Carlton Kirby is a Bum muncher - No Surprise there Eurosport cant be seen to Rubbish the TEXAN MESSIAH !!!!
The Armstrong creed.
I believe in Pat the Father almighty, saviour of heaven, earth and cycle sport.
And in Lance, our Lord, who was conceived by Johan the Holy Ghost, born of Ferrari the pure, suffered under Greg Lemond, but though crucified by the evil power of the truth and ‘The French’ could not be buried;
he descended into hell; the third day rose again from the dead, transformed from also-ran into ‘the greatest Tour rider in History’ by the miraculous powers of cancer;
he ascended to the podium and did payeth half a million dollars homage to the right hand of the UCI Almighty;
from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead (the doped and the clean).
I believe in the Holy Trinity of Lance, Pat and Johan; the holy UCI; whatever Phil, Paul and the rest of the Lance-worshiping media tell me to think, in the forgiveness of dopers, that Lance is doing it all to 'raise cancer awareness' and the lies everlasting.
AMEN.
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Bruyneel & especially the UCI are giving textbook examples of playing the man not the ball, aren't they?"We're not holding up traffic. We are traffic."0
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Off to buy crack
Chatting about pink elephants
3 hours later 0 -
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She's bang on with regards McQuaid...emadden wrote:
"These guys coming out now with things like this from the past is only damaging the sport," McQuaid told the Associated Press. "If they've any love for it, they wouldn't do it."
Apparently, he's never heard of tough love. McQuaid's statement raised more concerns about his fitness to lead than it did about Landis' credibility. He should be a vigilant top officer, yet he sounds like a gang leader telling residents of a troubled neighborhood: "Don't snitch."0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:As much as I would like to see Lance get his comeuppance, and I really would, it'll be the end of any growth in popularity pro cycling has experienced here in the UK, if he does.
Lance is a little like a big bank in cycling. Made a fortune during times when the regulation was a little lax, managed to get away with it, but now the sh!t hits the fan and he's basically 'too big to fail'. It'd really cripple cycling if Lance ever admits to doping.
I don't think it's the end of cycling. I think it the end of an era in cycling. If you read Brailford statement this is where cycling is going to go. Marketing itself as trying to do it clean, And sell this Landis thing as the past.( It will never be 100% clean. What is? Except Dazza!!)0 -
It's clear the UCI is adopting a clear "commercial" view to cycling. Doping affairs are to be buried. Was it in 2008 when McQuaid blocked retro-testing of samples, saying he did not want to awaken sleeping dogs? I think he had the chance to nail Ricco and Sella earlier but this did not happen.
Back to today and the same is happening. "If they've any love for it, they wouldn't do it" says McQuaid without a hint of irony, for anyone with a love for the sport would want it to be clean and for riders not to risk their health. Love for the sport does not mean ignoring problems.
How many times must the sport stumble from crisis to crisis?0 -
Pharmstrong can clearly see that the writing is on the wall...
The most interesting thing Armstrong said Thursday is that he won't sue Landis. This is a departure for Armstrong. Normally he gets his lawyers on the case whenever he is accused, as much to shape public perception as anything else.
http://tinyurl.com/35aq6f7
I guess that all those who like to claim that Armstrong's libel case against the Sunday Times is evidence of his 'innocence' will have to accept that this is proof of his guilt. 0 -
Kléber wrote:It's clear the UCI is adopting a clear "commercial" view to cycling. Doping affairs are to be buried. Was it in 2008 when McQuaid blocked retro-testing of samples, saying he did not want to awaken sleeping dogs? I think he had the chance to nail Ricco and Sella earlier but this did not happen.
Back to today and the same is happening. "If they've any love for it, they wouldn't do it" says McQuaid without a hint of irony, for anyone with a love for the sport would want it to be clean and for riders not to risk their health. Love for the sport does not mean ignoring problems.
How many times must the sport stumble from crisis to crisis?
It's stuff like this that just makes you think "what's the point?" He just has no interest in anything other than marketing the sport as a product and to hell with riders, fans being taken for fools, sponsors and teams.
I reckon Pat could have an interesting conversation about love for the sport with David Millar, Christophe Bassons and all those poor saps getting rinsed to stay within time limits thanks to the 30kph tempo certain teams set up HC climbs.
Even the likes of Basso and Laurent Dufaux could probably teach him something. Likewise all the scapegoats the sport has offered up down the years... Pantani, Landis et al."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
Whats to sue? Floyd owns a cardboard box.
Yes, the UCI still sees the commercial cart being pulled by a doped horse, as the way forward."Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.0 -
Any news from the Barry/Sky?Contador is the Greatest0
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FF
There's a link to the Brailsford response somewhere up the thread. He basically said that at the moment it's an allegation, should facts be established, they'll act on facts with teh process in his contract. Which is fair enough.
I'll add the Amore e Vita team to my above list too."In many ways, my story was that of a raging, Christ-like figure who hauled himself off the cross, looked up at the Romans with blood in his eyes and said 'My turn, sock cookers'"
@gietvangent0 -
Brailsford is here:disgruntledgoat wrote:There's a link to the Brailsford response somewhere up the thread. He basically said that at the moment it's an allegation, should facts be established, they'll act on facts with teh process in his contract. Which is fair enough.
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/lat ... barry.html
What I find interesting is that he wants to find the facts from Barry. Now if Landis is telling porkies, so be it. But if Barry is forced to say "yes, I did and I've stopped", what happens then? Will Team Sky formally notify the Canadian authorities to begin a doping investigation because admission is equal to a positive test and can get you a two year ban.
It'll be interesting to follow.0 -
Depends if Flandis is telling the truth and it depends on Barry doing likewise. As you say interesting to watch. It struck me overnight that as Landis has nothing to lose, literally, he's the perfect vehicle for this - you can't ruin him or make him more of a villan as he's already done that to himself. Does this make him dangerous? The next days, weeks and months might answer that I guess.0
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Well, it turns out that Armstrong's elbow isn't broken, so I guess he won't be using that as a face-saving way of not racing the TdF. I retract my earlier statements implying that the crash was either deliberate or would be used in that way.
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As for Floyd Landis, well, he is at the very least an interesting character. He has an intensely religious background, and one would suspect at least some conscience. Not enough to stop him doping, or even feeling bad about doping - he clearly believes it was (is?) a necessary part of becoming a top racing cyclist. I guess when you're inside the system you have a different morality to those outside.
Nor was his conscience enough to stop him lying and subsequently living the lie and doing some pretty horrific things to keep up the charade. What he did to Lemond suggests someone who has become somewhat damaged by their removal from reality. It is possible that he was fuelled by misplaced righteous indignation, i.e. that his testosterone test really was false or that he was given that wrong drug and he was bitter that what brought him down was someone else's error.
It's also clear that he's not the smartest guy. He seems ignorant of political situation when he has asked to go back to Bruyneel or race the ToC. These are things that could never happen even if he did threaten to say what he has said. He no doubt has ill will towards those who introduced him to the system and then all but turned their back on him when it all went wrong. But he should have realised that was all part of the system itself.
But his conscience has been enough to torture him for living a lie, in the way that Armstrong's conscience never has been. He's never been able to fully reconcile himself to it. That's why I believe that he is, in part, clearing his conscience in these allegations. But I wouldn't be surprised if there are other motivations, particularly given his dire financial situation. That's not to say that motivations less than 100% pure make what he has said in any way untrue.
That said, living a lie for so long, particularly with a mind that is ill at ease with it, can alter perceptions. I would not be surprised if it turned out that part of his testimony is false or exaggerated. This could be just to make it sound better, or less cynically simply because his mind, used to concocting fabrication, has filled in some of the blanks in his memory.
At the very least the allegations require thorough investigation, rather than dismissal. They will also require some kind of proof. As the same time, Landis will need some kind of help as he will be repeatedly raked across the coals by those me has slurred and their supporters. I sincerely hope he can deal with the fallout involved and nothing adds to the already substantial personal tragedy that is his past 4 years.Bike lover and part-time cyclist.0 -
If it goes BALCO then you will get that investigation. Certainly one thing we can be sure of is that the UCI won't be instigating any such action.0
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If Landis was sending Armstrong and Bruyneel constant email threats and trying to blackmail them, etc - surely they would be able to provide copies of these emails to the media to prove what they are saying?
Armstrong's statement that "It is his word verses ours. We like our word. We like where we stand and we like our credibility." - screams 'guilty' to me. Someone like Armstrong would have copies of any and all emails sent to him trying to blackmail him, etc - and would use them to show his innocence. If he were.0 -
Footage of the aftermath of the crash:
http://www.steephill.tv/players/bicycli ... crashes-ou
The doping allegations brought this 12 yr old fan to tears. I haven't listened to what he was saying...
http://cbs13.com/video/?id=72819@kovr.dayport.com
And Lance speaking outside of his bus before the stage y'day (not sure if it has been posted):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym1qz0eO0wwContador is the Greatest0 -
Pokerface wrote:If Landis was sending Armstrong and Bruyneel constant email threats and trying to blackmail them, etc - surely they would be able to provide copies of these emails to the media to prove what they are saying?
Armstrong's statement that "It is his word verses ours. We like our word. We like where we stand and we like our credibility." - screams 'guilty' to me. Someone like Armstrong would have copies of any and all emails sent to him trying to blackmail him, etc - and would use them to show his innocence. If he were.
Yes, but if those e-mails threatened him by saying "I will expose the truth about you" or "I will tell the world what happened on the team bus" then they wouldn't really be a great defence Bike lover and part-time cyclist.0 -
Bruyneel was asked yesterday if he went to the police because of the blackmail.
As if! That could prompt an investigation...0 -
So Pat was copied on the emails.
He needs to go. He really really does.Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
frenchfighter wrote:The doping allegations brought this 12 yr old fan to tears. I haven't listened to what he was saying...
http://cbs13.com/video/?id=72819@kovr.dayport.com
That's a bit harsh. The kid's ill and Armstrong his inspiration. You should listen before posting it.0 -
AidanR wrote:Pokerface wrote:If Landis was sending Armstrong and Bruyneel constant email threats and trying to blackmail them, etc - surely they would be able to provide copies of these emails to the media to prove what they are saying?
Armstrong's statement that "It is his word verses ours. We like our word. We like where we stand and we like our credibility." - screams 'guilty' to me. Someone like Armstrong would have copies of any and all emails sent to him trying to blackmail him, etc - and would use them to show his innocence. If he were.
Yes, but if those e-mails threatened him by saying "I will expose the truth about you" or "I will tell the world what happened on the team bus" then they wouldn't really be a great defence
That's kind of my point.
If you are innocent and someone tries to blackmail you with claims against you that you KNOW are untrue - surely you take action against them? However - if you you know what they are saying is true - you try and cover it up.
BUT - now that this is all out in the open anyway - and Lance et Co. are claiming that Landis was trying to blackmail them with false claims fro years - then it would make sense to show these emails to prove that Landis actually DID try this.
It might lend credence to their story that Landis is just a quack.
Either Landis DID send the emails - or Lance and Co. Are lying about them to try and make him look desperate. (Or maybe he DID send them the emails, but his claims were also true?)
What a mess.0
