Today's discussion about the news

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  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,625
    briantrumpet said:

    rick_chasey said:

    pblakeney said:


    Since the 90s housing has not been normal, amongst other things. #warpedperception

    That's 30 years > it's a long time.

    Like the gap between the war and the 70s. It's a long long time.

    In 30 years you had 2 world wars.

    When you're 60, 30 years won't seem like a long time at all. When I was at school, WW2 seemed like ancient history (30 years old), but now when I think that I was born just 19 years after WW2, and how quickly time has gone since I was 30, it seems crazily close.

    I'll be quoting this post in about 25 years for you. Possibly.
    I'm sure that's the case, but 18-35 year old voters are not 60...
    _
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 19,511
    rick_chasey said:

    briantrumpet said:

    rick_chasey said:

    pblakeney said:


    Since the 90s housing has not been normal, amongst other things. #warpedperception

    That's 30 years > it's a long time.

    Like the gap between the war and the 70s. It's a long long time.

    In 30 years you had 2 world wars.

    When you're 60, 30 years won't seem like a long time at all. When I was at school, WW2 seemed like ancient history (30 years old), but now when I think that I was born just 19 years after WW2, and how quickly time has gone since I was 30, it seems crazily close.

    I'll be quoting this post in about 25 years for you. Possibly.
    I'm sure that's the case, but 18-35 year old voters are not 60...

    Sure, but just pointing out how your perspective will change, and why, perhaps, those of us who have had a headstart towards the grave on you and the 18-35-year-olds occasionally push back. I know that that's not going to cut it with a disaffected generation, though it is a little comfort that the UK youngsters I know (and it's quite a lot of them) seem to be generally left-leaning and sanguine about their futures. I appreciate that telling them that my parents managed on roughly £80pw household income probably won't comfort them when they are looking at debts of £50k on leaving university and no foreseeable prospect of buying a house and sky-high rental costs. But none of us feels mortal at 30, and then it creeps up on you and says "Boo!"

    Actually, statistically, it's probable that I'll be dead in 2048, so if one of the youngsters here could do the honours of quoting me then...
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,625
    Sure, but that doesn't change the political reality that 18-35s across Western Europe are increasingly voting in extremist politicians.

    Plainly they didn't use to, at least, no where near in the numbers they are now, so something is different, and the old "you'll learn when you're older" has always applied, so I don't think that's necessary relevant.
    _
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 26,969
    rick_chasey said:

    Sure, but that doesn't change the political reality that 18-35s across Western Europe are increasingly voting in extremist politicians.

    Plainly they didn't use to, at least, no where near in the numbers they are now, so something is different, and the old "you'll learn when you're older" has always applied, so I don't think that's necessary relevant.

    Could it be down to social media?
    When I was in that age group I was too busy having fun to be much bothered by politics.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 19,511
    rick_chasey said:

    Sure, but that doesn't change the political reality that 18-35s across Western Europe are increasingly voting in extremist politicians.

    Plainly they didn't use to, at least, no where near in the numbers they are now, so something is different, and the old "you'll learn when you're older" has always applied, so I don't think that's necessary relevant.


    Indeed, but I don't know what the answer is when outcomes don't meet aspirations, especially given that when we're young we tend to think we understand things so much better than older generations.

    One of the things that you learn as you grow older is that, actually, usually, mother did know best, and that's really annoying.

    On a bit of a tangent - are there more opportunities now for high-paying jobs than 50 years ago, given that heavy industry and manual labour is but a shadow of what it was, and there are a lot more service industries? I'm trying to think what the high-paying jobs would have been in the 70s, and how restricted that market was to average folk without a university education or 'the right contacts'...
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,523
    rick_chasey said:

    Sure, but that doesn't change the political reality that 18-35s across Western Europe are increasingly voting in extremist politicians.

    Plainly they didn't use to, at least, no where near in the numbers they are now, so something is different, and the old "you'll learn when you're older" has always applied, so I don't think that's necessary relevant.

    So what policies should change to assist this group of people?
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,523
    ddraver said:

    As BT says...

    Many fewer taking gap years and more and more staying close to home to avoid comical rent prices.

    My sample size is not big and they all come from affluent families; however, it doesn't seem to be cost that deters them from taking gap years. The one who I know did take one was able to earn enough money with a part-time job. There seems to be some of feeling that life will be really hard and there is no time waste of years out.
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,084
    TheBigBean said:

    ddraver said:

    As BT says...

    Many fewer taking gap years and more and more staying close to home to avoid comical rent prices.

    My sample size is not big and they all come from affluent families; however, it doesn't seem to be cost that deters them from taking gap years. The one who I know did take one was able to earn enough money with a part-time job. There seems to be some of feeling that life will be really hard and there is no time waste of years out.
    Surely that is down to what you do with the year.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,625
    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Sure, but that doesn't change the political reality that 18-35s across Western Europe are increasingly voting in extremist politicians.

    Plainly they didn't use to, at least, no where near in the numbers they are now, so something is different, and the old "you'll learn when you're older" has always applied, so I don't think that's necessary relevant.

    So what policies should change to assist this group of people?
    I think something material to address lack of housing and cost of housing, which is by no means a UK issue, would help a lot.

    I also think learning from the US and working out what needs to be done to address the skilled job vs labour gap would be helpful too.

    There are a lot of well educated and other skilled people in jobs that don’t need it. I’m not just talking uni, but things like semi qualified accountants or IT professionals ending up in courrier or warehouse jobs.

    This is a problem across Europe and now China but the US has it well matched.

    I suspect the solution is relaxing regulation and freeing up markets and what companies can do, but how and what I don’t know.

    Some economic growth would help make younger people think there is opportunity out there and the world is not some sun zero game.
    _
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,523
    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Sure, but that doesn't change the political reality that 18-35s across Western Europe are increasingly voting in extremist politicians.

    Plainly they didn't use to, at least, no where near in the numbers they are now, so something is different, and the old "you'll learn when you're older" has always applied, so I don't think that's necessary relevant.

    So what policies should change to assist this group of people?
    I think something material to address lack of housing and cost of housing, which is by no means a UK issue, would help a lot.

    I also think learning from the US and working out what needs to be done to address the skilled job vs labour gap would be helpful too.

    There are a lot of well educated and other skilled people in jobs that don’t need it. I’m not just talking uni, but things like semi qualified accountants or IT professionals ending up in courrier or warehouse jobs.

    This is a problem across Europe and now China but the US has it well matched.

    I suspect the solution is relaxing regulation and freeing up markets and what companies can do, but how and what I don’t know.

    Some economic growth would help make younger people think there is opportunity out there and the world is not some sun zero game.
    If I was 20, I don't think I would vote for you.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 26,969
    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Sure, but that doesn't change the political reality that 18-35s across Western Europe are increasingly voting in extremist politicians.

    Plainly they didn't use to, at least, no where near in the numbers they are now, so something is different, and the old "you'll learn when you're older" has always applied, so I don't think that's necessary relevant.

    So what policies should change to assist this group of people?
    I think something material to address lack of housing and cost of housing, which is by no means a UK issue, would help a lot.

    I also think learning from the US and working out what needs to be done to address the skilled job vs labour gap would be helpful too.

    There are a lot of well educated and other skilled people in jobs that don’t need it. I’m not just talking uni, but things like semi qualified accountants or IT professionals ending up in courrier or warehouse jobs.

    This is a problem across Europe and now China but the US has it well matched.

    I suspect the solution is relaxing regulation and freeing up markets and what companies can do, but how and what I don’t know.

    Some economic growth would help make younger people think there is opportunity out there and the world is not some sun zero game.
    If I was 20, I don't think I would vote for you.
    Sounds like they should all emigrate to the U.S.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 7,387
    TheBigBean said:

    Also does anyone know if taking a gap year before university is on the decline? The small number of kids I know of that age don't seem interested.

    Opposite experience here. At least half of my son's school year, and probably a similar number from the lads I used to coach rugby all have just taken a gap year.
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 7,387
    pblakeney said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Sure, but that doesn't change the political reality that 18-35s across Western Europe are increasingly voting in extremist politicians.

    Plainly they didn't use to, at least, no where near in the numbers they are now, so something is different, and the old "you'll learn when you're older" has always applied, so I don't think that's necessary relevant.

    So what policies should change to assist this group of people?
    I think something material to address lack of housing and cost of housing, which is by no means a UK issue, would help a lot.

    I also think learning from the US and working out what needs to be done to address the skilled job vs labour gap would be helpful too.

    There are a lot of well educated and other skilled people in jobs that don’t need it. I’m not just talking uni, but things like semi qualified accountants or IT professionals ending up in courrier or warehouse jobs.

    This is a problem across Europe and now China but the US has it well matched.

    I suspect the solution is relaxing regulation and freeing up markets and what companies can do, but how and what I don’t know.

    Some economic growth would help make younger people think there is opportunity out there and the world is not some sun zero game.
    If I was 20, I don't think I would vote for you.
    Sounds like they should all emigrate to the U.S.
    And get about 2 weeks annual holiday each year.
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 26,969
    Dorset_Boy said:

    pblakeney said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Sure, but that doesn't change the political reality that 18-35s across Western Europe are increasingly voting in extremist politicians.

    Plainly they didn't use to, at least, no where near in the numbers they are now, so something is different, and the old "you'll learn when you're older" has always applied, so I don't think that's necessary relevant.

    So what policies should change to assist this group of people?
    I think something material to address lack of housing and cost of housing, which is by no means a UK issue, would help a lot.

    I also think learning from the US and working out what needs to be done to address the skilled job vs labour gap would be helpful too.

    There are a lot of well educated and other skilled people in jobs that don’t need it. I’m not just talking uni, but things like semi qualified accountants or IT professionals ending up in courrier or warehouse jobs.

    This is a problem across Europe and now China but the US has it well matched.

    I suspect the solution is relaxing regulation and freeing up markets and what companies can do, but how and what I don’t know.

    Some economic growth would help make younger people think there is opportunity out there and the world is not some sun zero game.
    If I was 20, I don't think I would vote for you.
    Sounds like they should all emigrate to the U.S.
    And get about 2 weeks annual holiday each year.
    Well, quite.
    However it really is all about the money for some. Or that's how it comes across.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,625
    edited November 2023
    Dorset_Boy said:

    pblakeney said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Sure, but that doesn't change the political reality that 18-35s across Western Europe are increasingly voting in extremist politicians.

    Plainly they didn't use to, at least, no where near in the numbers they are now, so something is different, and the old "you'll learn when you're older" has always applied, so I don't think that's necessary relevant.

    So what policies should change to assist this group of people?
    I think something material to address lack of housing and cost of housing, which is by no means a UK issue, would help a lot.

    I also think learning from the US and working out what needs to be done to address the skilled job vs labour gap would be helpful too.

    There are a lot of well educated and other skilled people in jobs that don’t need it. I’m not just talking uni, but things like semi qualified accountants or IT professionals ending up in courrier or warehouse jobs.

    This is a problem across Europe and now China but the US has it well matched.

    I suspect the solution is relaxing regulation and freeing up markets and what companies can do, but how and what I don’t know.

    Some economic growth would help make younger people think there is opportunity out there and the world is not some sun zero game.
    If I was 20, I don't think I would vote for you.
    Sounds like they should all emigrate to the U.S.
    And get about 2 weeks annual holiday each year.
    It’s not either or.


    It’s an odd feature on this forum that as soon as you mention something positive about the US people immediately get defensive and talk irrelevantly about either the health system, holidays or their gun laws.
    _
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,625
    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Sure, but that doesn't change the political reality that 18-35s across Western Europe are increasingly voting in extremist politicians.

    Plainly they didn't use to, at least, no where near in the numbers they are now, so something is different, and the old "you'll learn when you're older" has always applied, so I don't think that's necessary relevant.

    So what policies should change to assist this group of people?
    I think something material to address lack of housing and cost of housing, which is by no means a UK issue, would help a lot.

    I also think learning from the US and working out what needs to be done to address the skilled job vs labour gap would be helpful too.

    There are a lot of well educated and other skilled people in jobs that don’t need it. I’m not just talking uni, but things like semi qualified accountants or IT professionals ending up in courrier or warehouse jobs.

    This is a problem across Europe and now China but the US has it well matched.

    I suspect the solution is relaxing regulation and freeing up markets and what companies can do, but how and what I don’t know.

    Some economic growth would help make younger people think there is opportunity out there and the world is not some sun zero game.
    If I was 20, I don't think I would vote for you.
    Would you have voted for Corbyn or Wilders?
    _
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,523
    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Sure, but that doesn't change the political reality that 18-35s across Western Europe are increasingly voting in extremist politicians.

    Plainly they didn't use to, at least, no where near in the numbers they are now, so something is different, and the old "you'll learn when you're older" has always applied, so I don't think that's necessary relevant.

    So what policies should change to assist this group of people?
    I think something material to address lack of housing and cost of housing, which is by no means a UK issue, would help a lot.

    I also think learning from the US and working out what needs to be done to address the skilled job vs labour gap would be helpful too.

    There are a lot of well educated and other skilled people in jobs that don’t need it. I’m not just talking uni, but things like semi qualified accountants or IT professionals ending up in courrier or warehouse jobs.

    This is a problem across Europe and now China but the US has it well matched.

    I suspect the solution is relaxing regulation and freeing up markets and what companies can do, but how and what I don’t know.

    Some economic growth would help make younger people think there is opportunity out there and the world is not some sun zero game.
    If I was 20, I don't think I would vote for you.
    Would you have voted for Corbyn or Wilders?
    I think their proposals are probably easier to relate to for some. For the avoidance of doubt, I don't relate to Wilders.
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Sure, but that doesn't change the political reality that 18-35s across Western Europe are increasingly voting in extremist politicians.

    Plainly they didn't use to, at least, no where near in the numbers they are now, so something is different, and the old "you'll learn when you're older" has always applied, so I don't think that's necessary relevant.

    So what policies should change to assist this group of people?
    I think something material to address lack of housing and cost of housing, which is by no means a UK issue, would help a lot.

    I also think learning from the US and working out what needs to be done to address the skilled job vs labour gap would be helpful too.

    There are a lot of well educated and other skilled people in jobs that don’t need it. I’m not just talking uni, but things like semi qualified accountants or IT professionals ending up in courrier or warehouse jobs.

    This is a problem across Europe and now China but the US has it well matched.

    I suspect the solution is relaxing regulation and freeing up markets and what companies can do, but how and what I don’t know.

    Some economic growth would help make younger people think there is opportunity out there and the world is not some sun zero game.
    If I was 20, I don't think I would vote for you.
    Regardless of age not many people will vote for a policy that delivers the goods in several decades time.

    In the meantime whilst the kids wait for the next megatrend to turbocharge the global economy they should listen to SteveO and stop relying on the Govt and make their own luck.
  • briantrumpet
    briantrumpet Posts: 19,511
    rick_chasey said:

    Dorset_Boy said:

    pblakeney said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Sure, but that doesn't change the political reality that 18-35s across Western Europe are increasingly voting in extremist politicians.

    Plainly they didn't use to, at least, no where near in the numbers they are now, so something is different, and the old "you'll learn when you're older" has always applied, so I don't think that's necessary relevant.

    So what policies should change to assist this group of people?
    I think something material to address lack of housing and cost of housing, which is by no means a UK issue, would help a lot.

    I also think learning from the US and working out what needs to be done to address the skilled job vs labour gap would be helpful too.

    There are a lot of well educated and other skilled people in jobs that don’t need it. I’m not just talking uni, but things like semi qualified accountants or IT professionals ending up in courrier or warehouse jobs.

    This is a problem across Europe and now China but the US has it well matched.

    I suspect the solution is relaxing regulation and freeing up markets and what companies can do, but how and what I don’t know.

    Some economic growth would help make younger people think there is opportunity out there and the world is not some sun zero game.
    If I was 20, I don't think I would vote for you.
    Sounds like they should all emigrate to the U.S.
    And get about 2 weeks annual holiday each year.
    It’s not either or.


    It’s an odd feature on this forum that as soon as you mention something positive about the US people immediately get defensive and talk irrelevantly about either the health system, holidays or their gun laws.

    Not defensive, I just think it's shït on many levels (particularly if you are poor, or ill), and deeply weird on many levels. And its political system is starting to look very shaky, not least as the judicial system is politicised by design. Just because a lot of people can make a shedload of money doesn't negate that, though I'll admit I don't find shedloads of money appealing in itself.
    https://www.facebook.com/unanglaisendiois
  • Stevo_666
    Stevo_666 Posts: 60,598
    surrey_commuter said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Sure, but that doesn't change the political reality that 18-35s across Western Europe are increasingly voting in extremist politicians.

    Plainly they didn't use to, at least, no where near in the numbers they are now, so something is different, and the old "you'll learn when you're older" has always applied, so I don't think that's necessary relevant.

    So what policies should change to assist this group of people?
    I think something material to address lack of housing and cost of housing, which is by no means a UK issue, would help a lot.

    I also think learning from the US and working out what needs to be done to address the skilled job vs labour gap would be helpful too.

    There are a lot of well educated and other skilled people in jobs that don’t need it. I’m not just talking uni, but things like semi qualified accountants or IT professionals ending up in courrier or warehouse jobs.

    This is a problem across Europe and now China but the US has it well matched.

    I suspect the solution is relaxing regulation and freeing up markets and what companies can do, but how and what I don’t know.

    Some economic growth would help make younger people think there is opportunity out there and the world is not some sun zero game.
    If I was 20, I don't think I would vote for you.
    Regardless of age not many people will vote for a policy that delivers the goods in several decades time.

    In the meantime whilst the kids wait for the next megatrend to turbocharge the global economy they should listen to SteveO and stop relying on the Govt and make their own luck.
    You heard it here first :)
    "I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]
  • surrey_commuter
    surrey_commuter Posts: 18,867
    briantrumpet said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Dorset_Boy said:

    pblakeney said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Sure, but that doesn't change the political reality that 18-35s across Western Europe are increasingly voting in extremist politicians.

    Plainly they didn't use to, at least, no where near in the numbers they are now, so something is different, and the old "you'll learn when you're older" has always applied, so I don't think that's necessary relevant.

    So what policies should change to assist this group of people?
    I think something material to address lack of housing and cost of housing, which is by no means a UK issue, would help a lot.

    I also think learning from the US and working out what needs to be done to address the skilled job vs labour gap would be helpful too.

    There are a lot of well educated and other skilled people in jobs that don’t need it. I’m not just talking uni, but things like semi qualified accountants or IT professionals ending up in courrier or warehouse jobs.

    This is a problem across Europe and now China but the US has it well matched.

    I suspect the solution is relaxing regulation and freeing up markets and what companies can do, but how and what I don’t know.

    Some economic growth would help make younger people think there is opportunity out there and the world is not some sun zero game.
    If I was 20, I don't think I would vote for you.
    Sounds like they should all emigrate to the U.S.
    And get about 2 weeks annual holiday each year.
    It’s not either or.


    It’s an odd feature on this forum that as soon as you mention something positive about the US people immediately get defensive and talk irrelevantly about either the health system, holidays or their gun laws.

    Not defensive, I just think it's shït on many levels (particularly if you are poor, or ill), and deeply weird on many levels. And its political system is starting to look very shaky, not least as the judicial system is politicised by design. Just because a lot of people can make a shedload of money doesn't negate that, though I'll admit I don't find shedloads of money appealing in itself.
    I think if you are poor or ill they would not want you.
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,602
    rick_chasey said:

    Dorset_Boy said:

    pblakeney said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Sure, but that doesn't change the political reality that 18-35s across Western Europe are increasingly voting in extremist politicians.

    Plainly they didn't use to, at least, no where near in the numbers they are now, so something is different, and the old "you'll learn when you're older" has always applied, so I don't think that's necessary relevant.

    So what policies should change to assist this group of people?
    I think something material to address lack of housing and cost of housing, which is by no means a UK issue, would help a lot.

    I also think learning from the US and working out what needs to be done to address the skilled job vs labour gap would be helpful too.

    There are a lot of well educated and other skilled people in jobs that don’t need it. I’m not just talking uni, but things like semi qualified accountants or IT professionals ending up in courrier or warehouse jobs.

    This is a problem across Europe and now China but the US has it well matched.

    I suspect the solution is relaxing regulation and freeing up markets and what companies can do, but how and what I don’t know.

    Some economic growth would help make younger people think there is opportunity out there and the world is not some sun zero game.
    If I was 20, I don't think I would vote for you.
    Sounds like they should all emigrate to the U.S.
    And get about 2 weeks annual holiday each year.
    It’s not either or.


    It’s an odd feature on this forum that as soon as you mention something positive about the US people immediately get defensive and talk irrelevantly about either the health system, holidays or their gun laws.
    Hardly exclusive to this forum
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,602
    surrey_commuter said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Sure, but that doesn't change the political reality that 18-35s across Western Europe are increasingly voting in extremist politicians.

    Plainly they didn't use to, at least, no where near in the numbers they are now, so something is different, and the old "you'll learn when you're older" has always applied, so I don't think that's necessary relevant.

    So what policies should change to assist this group of people?
    I think something material to address lack of housing and cost of housing, which is by no means a UK issue, would help a lot.

    I also think learning from the US and working out what needs to be done to address the skilled job vs labour gap would be helpful too.

    There are a lot of well educated and other skilled people in jobs that don’t need it. I’m not just talking uni, but things like semi qualified accountants or IT professionals ending up in courrier or warehouse jobs.

    This is a problem across Europe and now China but the US has it well matched.

    I suspect the solution is relaxing regulation and freeing up markets and what companies can do, but how and what I don’t know.

    Some economic growth would help make younger people think there is opportunity out there and the world is not some sun zero game.
    If I was 20, I don't think I would vote for you.
    Regardless of age not many people will vote for a policy that delivers the goods in several decades time.

    In the meantime whilst the kids wait for the next megatrend to turbocharge the global economy they should listen to SteveO and stop relying on the Govt and make their own luck.
    This is fine on an individual level and I suspect most people here don't need to be told to do so.

    On a nationwide level though all the jobs we realised were essential during covid gradually become a stupid career choice from a financial point of view.
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 26,969
    rick_chasey said:

    Dorset_Boy said:

    pblakeney said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Sure, but that doesn't change the political reality that 18-35s across Western Europe are increasingly voting in extremist politicians.

    Plainly they didn't use to, at least, no where near in the numbers they are now, so something is different, and the old "you'll learn when you're older" has always applied, so I don't think that's necessary relevant.

    So what policies should change to assist this group of people?
    I think something material to address lack of housing and cost of housing, which is by no means a UK issue, would help a lot.

    I also think learning from the US and working out what needs to be done to address the skilled job vs labour gap would be helpful too.

    There are a lot of well educated and other skilled people in jobs that don’t need it. I’m not just talking uni, but things like semi qualified accountants or IT professionals ending up in courrier or warehouse jobs.

    This is a problem across Europe and now China but the US has it well matched.

    I suspect the solution is relaxing regulation and freeing up markets and what companies can do, but how and what I don’t know.

    Some economic growth would help make younger people think there is opportunity out there and the world is not some sun zero game.
    If I was 20, I don't think I would vote for you.
    Sounds like they should all emigrate to the U.S.
    And get about 2 weeks annual holiday each year.
    It’s not either or.

    ...
    Certainly was when I was there. Any additional time off was unpaid leave, if granted.

    "US workers are not legally entitled to any paid holiday at all. However, in reality, most US employers offer paid vacation time to their workers. The number of days varies from employer to employer, but on average, US workers receive around ten days of paid holiday each year. In addition, time off is often accrued, which means that US staff will need to be working in their job for 12 months before they’re entitled to ten days of holiday."
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • pangolin
    pangolin Posts: 6,602
    Whoosh
    - Genesis Croix de Fer
    - Dolan Tuono
  • carbonclem
    carbonclem Posts: 1,771
    Dorset_Boy said:

    TheBigBean said:

    Also does anyone know if taking a gap year before university is on the decline? The small number of kids I know of that age don't seem interested.

    Opposite experience here. At least half of my son's school year, and probably a similar number from the lads I used to coach rugby all have just taken a gap year.
    Lots of my daughters year took a gap year, but that was the intake of late 2020 so it was deferment due to the pandemic. They didn’t go travelling.
    2020/2021/2022 Metric Century Challenge Winner
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,625
    A downside of reducing immigration from liberal countries (read, EU) is you end up importing lots of intolerant views.

    _
  • rjsterry
    rjsterry Posts: 29,084
    pblakeney said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Sure, but that doesn't change the political reality that 18-35s across Western Europe are increasingly voting in extremist politicians.

    Plainly they didn't use to, at least, no where near in the numbers they are now, so something is different, and the old "you'll learn when you're older" has always applied, so I don't think that's necessary relevant.

    So what policies should change to assist this group of people?
    I think something material to address lack of housing and cost of housing, which is by no means a UK issue, would help a lot.

    I also think learning from the US and working out what needs to be done to address the skilled job vs labour gap would be helpful too.

    There are a lot of well educated and other skilled people in jobs that don’t need it. I’m not just talking uni, but things like semi qualified accountants or IT professionals ending up in courrier or warehouse jobs.

    This is a problem across Europe and now China but the US has it well matched.

    I suspect the solution is relaxing regulation and freeing up markets and what companies can do, but how and what I don’t know.

    Some economic growth would help make younger people think there is opportunity out there and the world is not some sun zero game.
    If I was 20, I don't think I would vote for you.
    Sounds like they should all emigrate to the U.S.
    I'm not sure the US is any less infatuated with far right bullsh*tters so maybe it's not that straightforward.
    1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
    Pinnacle Monzonite

    Part of the anti-growth coalition
  • pblakeney
    pblakeney Posts: 26,969
    rjsterry said:

    pblakeney said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    TheBigBean said:

    rick_chasey said:

    Sure, but that doesn't change the political reality that 18-35s across Western Europe are increasingly voting in extremist politicians.

    Plainly they didn't use to, at least, no where near in the numbers they are now, so something is different, and the old "you'll learn when you're older" has always applied, so I don't think that's necessary relevant.

    So what policies should change to assist this group of people?
    I think something material to address lack of housing and cost of housing, which is by no means a UK issue, would help a lot.

    I also think learning from the US and working out what needs to be done to address the skilled job vs labour gap would be helpful too.

    There are a lot of well educated and other skilled people in jobs that don’t need it. I’m not just talking uni, but things like semi qualified accountants or IT professionals ending up in courrier or warehouse jobs.

    This is a problem across Europe and now China but the US has it well matched.

    I suspect the solution is relaxing regulation and freeing up markets and what companies can do, but how and what I don’t know.

    Some economic growth would help make younger people think there is opportunity out there and the world is not some sun zero game.
    If I was 20, I don't think I would vote for you.
    Sounds like they should all emigrate to the U.S.
    I'm not sure the US is any less infatuated with far right bullsh*tters so maybe it's not that straightforward.
    For clarity,it wasn't my opinion. Rather it was my conclusion of Rick's post.
    The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
    I am not sure. You have no chance.
    Veronese68 wrote:
    PB is the most sensible person on here.
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,625
    edited November 2023
    Look if things carry on there will be a three tiered “rich” world with the US streaking ahead, Europe Japan and Korea stagnating and China stagnating behind.

    Europeans would do well to be humble about their own decade of poor economic performance and address it.

    This sort of snobbery about the US is fine but most of the criticisms are not to do with the economy.

    Americans not having much holiday or shooting each other is not the reason their economy is doing so well.

    There are lessons to be learned.
    _

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