Today's discussion about the news
Comments
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A long article about IDF tactics in Gaza.
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The IDF are scum. There's no other word for them.0
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They are as bad as each other, just one has a lot of extra firepower.thegreatdivide said:The IDF are scum. There's no other word for them.
The insistence of the rest of the world getting involved in a way that's not anything but peacekeeping is really infuriating and it only makes it worse on both sides.
It'd be a lot less crazy if the US stopped supplying israel and iran stopped supplying hamas.0 -
From that article posted above, which is pretty good btw, this reads like pretty much any Allied justification for their behaviour from 1944-1945 (after which of course we had the Geneva convention, to put an end to that kind of behaviour).According to the doctrine — developed by former IDF Chief of Staff Gadi Eizenkot, who is now a Knesset member and part of the current war cabinet — in a war against guerrilla groups such as Hamas or Hezbollah, Israel must use disproportionate and overwhelming force while targeting civilian and government infrastructure in order to establish deterrence and force the civilian population to pressure the groups to end their attacks. The concept of “power targets” seems to have emanated from this same logic.0
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I do in general find it remarkable how heavily involved the international community can be in one war, and so utterly uninterested in another because they're in Africa.0
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It feels like a reasonably well balanced and factual article. It reinforces my suspicion that the aim is to terrorise the general population with the (unstated) end game of making Gaza an unviable place to live for Palestinians. The IDF must know that it will be impossible to eliminate Hamas, and therefore this more general collateral-heavy policy will just carry on until the place has been flattened.0
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Yeah they definitely don't care about the collateral, and neither does Hamas. Back end of the article is good on how when trying to account for civilians IDF basically is powerless to hurt Hamas and Hamas is equally unfussed about civilian casualties (which you'd have thought gives the IDF food for thought) as they see it a driver for support, internationally and locally.briantrumpet said:It feels like a reasonably well balanced and factual article. It reinforces my suspicion that the aim is to terrorise the general population with the (unstated) end game of making Gaza an unviable place to live for Palestinians. The IDF must know that it will be impossible to eliminate Hamas, and therefore this more general collateral-heavy policy will just carry on until the place has been flattened.
Each side basically is very happy to have Palestinian civilians as collateral. Why on earth they continue to live there is beyond me, but presumably that's the point.0 -
rick_chasey said:
Yeah they definitely don't care about the collateral, and neither does Hamas. Back end of the article is good on how when trying to account for civilians IDF basically is powerless to hurt Hamas and Hamas is equally unfussed about civilian casualties (which you'd have thought gives the IDF food for thought).briantrumpet said:It feels like a reasonably well balanced and factual article. It reinforces my suspicion that the aim is to terrorise the general population with the (unstated) end game of making Gaza an unviable place to live for Palestinians. The IDF must know that it will be impossible to eliminate Hamas, and therefore this more general collateral-heavy policy will just carry on until the place has been flattened.
Each side basically is very happy to have Palestinian civilians as collateral. Why on earth they continue to live there is beyond me, but presumably that's the point.
Yup.0 -
Sounds just like...briantrumpet said:It feels like a reasonably well balanced and factual article. It reinforces my suspicion that the aim is to terrorise the general population with the (unstated) end game of making Gaza an unviable place to live for Palestinians. The IDF must know that it will be impossible to eliminate Hamas, and therefore this more general collateral-heavy policy will just carry on until the place has been flattened.
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Quite a long time ago now (late 90s) but there were quite a few Israelis in my year at architecture school. Several had already done their national service before their studies and not just the minimum term. I certainly wouldn't describe any of them as scum, and the current conduct of the IDF feels pretty alien to the people I remember.thegreatdivide said:The IDF are scum. There's no other word for them.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Soldiers and orders?rjsterry said:
Quite a long time ago now (late 90s) but there were quite a few Israelis in my year at architecture school. Several had already done their national service before their studies and not just the minimum term. I certainly wouldn't describe any of them as scum, and the current conduct of the IDF feels pretty alien to the people I remember.thegreatdivide said:The IDF are scum. There's no other word for them.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
More a comment that it's very easy to sit in the UK and label someone scum.pblakeney said:
Soldiers and orders?rjsterry said:
Quite a long time ago now (late 90s) but there were quite a few Israelis in my year at architecture school. Several had already done their national service before their studies and not just the minimum term. I certainly wouldn't describe any of them as scum, and the current conduct of the IDF feels pretty alien to the people I remember.thegreatdivide said:The IDF are scum. There's no other word for them.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
It happens on the Conservative thread quite often.rjsterry said:
More a comment that it's very easy to sit in the UK and label someone scum.pblakeney said:
Soldiers and orders?rjsterry said:
Quite a long time ago now (late 90s) but there were quite a few Israelis in my year at architecture school. Several had already done their national service before their studies and not just the minimum term. I certainly wouldn't describe any of them as scum, and the current conduct of the IDF feels pretty alien to the people I remember.thegreatdivide said:The IDF are scum. There's no other word for them.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]1 -
As someone asked on Question Time last night: "what has Israel got on the USA and UK?"rick_chasey said:I do in general find it remarkable how heavily involved the international community can be in one war, and so utterly uninterested in another because they're in Africa.
Wilier Izoard XP1 -
Yes, we all know who that is. Unnecessary there, too.Stevo_666 said:
It happens on the Conservative thread quite often.rjsterry said:
More a comment that it's very easy to sit in the UK and label someone scum.pblakeney said:
Soldiers and orders?rjsterry said:
Quite a long time ago now (late 90s) but there were quite a few Israelis in my year at architecture school. Several had already done their national service before their studies and not just the minimum term. I certainly wouldn't describe any of them as scum, and the current conduct of the IDF feels pretty alien to the people I remember.thegreatdivide said:The IDF are scum. There's no other word for them.
1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Yeah, I try to disassociate between strategy and individual front line people.rjsterry said:
More a comment that it's very easy to sit in the UK and label someone scum.pblakeney said:
Soldiers and orders?rjsterry said:
Quite a long time ago now (late 90s) but there were quite a few Israelis in my year at architecture school. Several had already done their national service before their studies and not just the minimum term. I certainly wouldn't describe any of them as scum, and the current conduct of the IDF feels pretty alien to the people I remember.thegreatdivide said:The IDF are scum. There's no other word for them.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
So, having to told everyone to evacuate to the south, Israel is going to attack the south. They're not doing a very good job of convincing me that I'm wrong that they want to make Gaza uninhabitable by Palestinians.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/01/israel-signals-intent-to-launch-ground-invasion-of-southern-gazaIsrael has signalled that it is preparing to launch a ground assault in southern Gaza in a significant escalation of the war, as it attacked the Strip on Friday after the end of a seven-day truce, leaving at least 178 Palestinians dead.
The country’s military dropped leaflets in parts of Khan Younis, where Israel believes Hamas’s leadership is based, warning citizens to evacuate farther south to Rafah, prompting humanitarian groups to say that Palestinians risked being forced completely out of the territory.
The resumption of hostilities came as the Israeli prime minister, Benjamin Netanyahu, appeared to brush aside US calls to pursue a more restrained military campaign after the humanitarian pause in the fighting came to an end.
Netanyahu said his country’s forces were now “charging forward” and that the plan was for a total military victory. “We continue to fight with all our strength until we achieve all our goals: the return of all our abductees, the elimination of Hamas, and the promise that Gaza will never be a threat to Israel again,” he said.0 -
Not a great look for Israel
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/30/world/middleeast/israel-hamas-attack-intelligence.html- Genesis Croix de Fer
- Dolan Tuono0 -
Still in the Graun, this is a very good piece, I think, and therefore, not surprisingly, not offering any simple solutions. Very much worth a read.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/dec/01/war-hamas-israel-tragic-choice
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Meanwhile, in BBC-Toryland:
What with two Tories at the top of the BBC and the Head of News being ex-GB News, all the needed was a Tory at the head of Ofcom to make it a clean sweep. Though maybe it's just a coincidence...
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If nothing else a change in government might flush them out of the BBC!0
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Tories are mad doing this.
They’re about to lose an election > do they think labour are gonna take the high road with appointments now Tories have made them political appointments?
It’s all fun and games till it’s not your appointments. God they’re stupid.0 -
Probably not. But there won't be as much moaning about it on here if they are leftie or centre leftie appointments.rick_chasey said:Tories are mad doing this.
They’re about to lose an election > do they think labour are gonna take the high road with appointments now Tories have made them political appointments?
It’s all fun and games till it’s not your appointments. God they’re stupid."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
I’d sincerely hope you’d pick them up for it.Stevo_666 said:
Probably not. But there won't be as much moaning about it on here if they are leftie or centre leftie appointments.rick_chasey said:Tories are mad doing this.
They’re about to lose an election > do they think labour are gonna take the high road with appointments now Tories have made them political appointments?
It’s all fun and games till it’s not your appointments. God they’re stupid.0 -
I guess that 'centre leftie' now would be defined as anyone to the left of Truss or Braverman.0
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If it helps, it seems to include you now.briantrumpet said:I guess that 'centre leftie' now would be defined as anyone to the left of Truss or Braverman.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Stevo_666 said:
If it helps, it seems to include you now.briantrumpet said:I guess that 'centre leftie' now would be defined as anyone to the left of Truss or Braverman.
Happy to be left of Truss and Braverman. And not difficult either.
From the polls, it's about 75% of the electorate would be classed as that, given 'Tories' are stuck on 25%. I remain mystified what the Tories stand for now, as they appear to be the National Front of the 1970's, but without the low taxes bit or honest government and rooting out corruption.
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That quote on the right sounded a bit like what von der Leyen was saying about the UK recently if you read between the linesbriantrumpet said:Stevo_666 said:
If it helps, it seems to include you now.briantrumpet said:I guess that 'centre leftie' now would be defined as anyone to the left of Truss or Braverman.
Happy to be left of Truss and Braverman. And not difficult either.
From the polls, it's about 75% of the electorate would be classed as that, given 'Tories' are stuck on 25%. I remain mystified what the Tories stand for now, as they appear to be the National Front of the 1970's, but without the low taxes bit or honest government and rooting out corruption.
"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
Not sure I can be bothered. Didn't even know who these people were until I read the post about the evil Tory plot to take over the lovely Beeb.rick_chasey said:
I’d sincerely hope you’d pick them up for it.Stevo_666 said:
Probably not. But there won't be as much moaning about it on here if they are leftie or centre leftie appointments.rick_chasey said:Tories are mad doing this.
They’re about to lose an election > do they think labour are gonna take the high road with appointments now Tories have made them political appointments?
It’s all fun and games till it’s not your appointments. God they’re stupid."I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0 -
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