Today's discussion about the news

TheBigBean

A thread for "half thoughts on the latest crisis", an argument of unknown length or anything else that anyone wants to discuss that doesn't have its own thread*

*The difficult subject of thread compartmentalisation has many grey areas, but be reassured that someone will pop along to argue about it and ultimately set you straight should you err.

Pross

Are we allowed to discuss yesterday's news in this thread?

TheBigBean

In the news today:
- a spot of bother in the Middle East
- Coldplay and ex-manager locked in multi-million pound court battle
- Medway: Christmas lights cancelled by council
- Coin hoard that could be linked to Glen Coe massacre found under fireplace
- Earthquake in Afghanistan

TheBigBean

Pross said:

Are we allowed to discuss yesterday's news in this thread?

Yes. You can discuss today's news tomorrow too. So get it off your chest. Is a 5 min argument you are after?

Pross

Tomorrow's news today? Hopefully that won't get me a solicitor's letter from the Bond producers.

surrey_commuter

Assuming Israeli tanks roll into Gaza do we think they will be there for;


Days
Weeks
Years
Decades

TheBigBean

So about this ULEZ stuff. Apparently, when paying for visitor parking on the street, I'm going to have to pay based on their ULEZ status. It's not something I have much control over. For example, bloke gets sent to fix my washing machine and I need to pay if he turns up in a dirty vehicle.

TheBigBean

surrey_commuter said:

Assuming Israeli tanks roll into Gaza do we think they will be there for;

2. • Days
     
   • Weeks
     
   • Months
     
   • Years
     
   • Decades
     

Are they going to? It will mean more dead Israelis and Hezbollah entering the fray. Far easier to just go with the carpet bombing approach while sympathy is there.

Jezyboy

surrey_commuter said:

Assuming Israeli tanks roll into Gaza do we think they will be there for;


Days
Weeks
Years
Decades

Less than a year more than a week.

surrey_commuter

TheBigBean said:

surrey_commuter said:

Assuming Israeli tanks roll into Gaza do we think they will be there for;

2. • Days
     
   • Weeks
     
   • Months
     
   • Years
     
   • Decades
     

Are they going to? It will mean more dead Israelis and Hezbollah entering the fray. Far easier to just go with the carpet bombing approach while sympathy is there.

bombing is far more expensive and they need to be seen to do something

I doubt the yanks would lend them B52s so theycould carpet bomb

surrey_commuter

Jezyboy said:

surrey_commuter said:

Assuming Israeli tanks roll into Gaza do we think they will be there for;


Days
Weeks
Years
Decades

Less than a year more than a week.

I am going with years not decades

not sure where months disappeared tp

rick_chasey

Looks like Israel is blowing the sh!t out of the Gaza strip, "even at the risk of harming the hostages" apparently.

pangolin

rick_chasey said:

Looks like Israel is blowing the sh!t out of the Gaza strip, "even at the risk of harming the hostages" apparently.

Presumably the international community is fine with this

rick_chasey

pangolin said:

rick_chasey said:

Looks like Israel is blowing the sh!t out of the Gaza strip, "even at the risk of harming the hostages" apparently.

Presumably the international community is fine with this

Look it's a sh!tshow all round but if that's where Hamas are hiding what is the international community expecting?

Using human/civilian shields is also a war crime.

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

pangolin said:

rick_chasey said:

Looks like Israel is blowing the sh!t out of the Gaza strip, "even at the risk of harming the hostages" apparently.

Presumably the international community is fine with this

Look it's a sh!tshow all round but if that's where Hamas are hiding what is the international community expecting?

Using human/civilian shields is also a war crime.

A prisoner swap. Kids for kids.

Jezyboy

surrey_commuter said:

Jezyboy said:

surrey_commuter said:

Assuming Israeli tanks roll into Gaza do we think they will be there for;


Days
Weeks
Years
Decades

Less than a year more than a week.

I am going with years not decades

not sure where months disappeared tp

I would assume that if they commit it will more brutal but less drawn out than Ukraine.

I suspect there will be less of the careful targeting of insurgents than in say, Afghanistan and Iraq.

rick_chasey

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

pangolin said:

rick_chasey said:

Looks like Israel is blowing the sh!t out of the Gaza strip, "even at the risk of harming the hostages" apparently.

Presumably the international community is fine with this

Look it's a sh!tshow all round but if that's where Hamas are hiding what is the international community expecting?

Using human/civilian shields is also a war crime.

A prisoner swap. Kids for kids.

That just encourages hostage taking.

TheBigBean

surrey_commuter said:

Jezyboy said:

surrey_commuter said:

Assuming Israeli tanks roll into Gaza do we think they will be there for;


Days
Weeks
Years
Decades

Less than a year more than a week.

I am going with years not decades

not sure where months disappeared tp

I disagree. Nothing to be gained from occupying other than pleasing a few flag wavers. The land is worthless.

Also do you realise that a lot of the troops are reservists? Essentially middle class conscripts. Their deaths wouldn't go down well.

This is why they withdrew from Lebanon.

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

rick_chasey said:

pangolin said:

rick_chasey said:

Looks like Israel is blowing the sh!t out of the Gaza strip, "even at the risk of harming the hostages" apparently.

Presumably the international community is fine with this

Look it's a sh!tshow all round but if that's where Hamas are hiding what is the international community expecting?

Using human/civilian shields is also a war crime.

A prisoner swap. Kids for kids.

That just encourages hostage taking.

Well there's plenty of precedent and it's the reason they took hostages. Plus Israel doesn't need the world looking at its own hostages/prisoners.

rjsterry

TheBigBean said:

In the news today:
- a spot of bother in the Middle East
- Coldplay and ex-manager locked in multi-million pound court battle
- Medway: Christmas lights cancelled by council
- Coin hoard that could be linked to Glen Coe massacre found under fireplace
- Earthquake in Afghanistan

You're supposed to end on the light-hearted one.

veronese68

TheBigBean said:

So about this ULEZ stuff. Apparently, when paying for visitor parking on the street, I'm going to have to pay based on their ULEZ status. It's not something I have much control over. For example, bloke gets sent to fix my washing machine and I need to pay if he turns up in a dirty vehicle.

I don't have a problem with ulez, but that's ridiculous. If it's left parked up for a few days it's not emitting anything.

TheBigBean

veronese68 said:

TheBigBean said:

So about this ULEZ stuff. Apparently, when paying for visitor parking on the street, I'm going to have to pay based on their ULEZ status. It's not something I have much control over. For example, bloke gets sent to fix my washing machine and I need to pay if he turns up in a dirty vehicle.

I don't have a problem with ulez, but that's ridiculous. If it's left parked up for a few days it's not emitting anything.

It's visitor parking so for less than 4 hours. There might be an all day option too. I'm perfectly happy for them to be hit for the ULEZ charge on entry, bit not sure why I need to be hit too when I have no control.

How many people get to tell their visitors what vehicles to drive? Obviously I tell them not to drive, but you can probably guess how successful that is based on a similar thread where cyclists have commented on the subject.

surrey_commuter

TheBigBean said:

surrey_commuter said:

Jezyboy said:

surrey_commuter said:

Assuming Israeli tanks roll into Gaza do we think they will be there for;


Days
Weeks
Years
Decades

Less than a year more than a week.

I am going with years not decades

not sure where months disappeared tp

I disagree. Nothing to be gained from occupying other than pleasing a few flag wavers. The land is worthless.

Also do you realise that a lot of the troops are reservists? Essentially middle class conscripts. Their deaths wouldn't go down well.

This is why they withdrew from Lebanon.

After 15 years.

Hamas will have been planning for what is coming

briantrumpet

TheBigBean said:

A thread for "half thoughts on the latest crisis", an argument of unknown length or anything else that anyone wants to discuss that doesn't have its own thread*

*The difficult subject of thread compartmentalisation has many grey areas, but be reassured that someone will pop along to argue about it and ultimately set you straight should you err.

Damn you, this is going to be hard for the thread 👮‍♂️ to take issue with.

Actually, good idea. Probably for the same reason.

TheBigBean

surrey_commuter said:

TheBigBean said:

surrey_commuter said:

Jezyboy said:

surrey_commuter said:

Assuming Israeli tanks roll into Gaza do we think they will be there for;


Days
Weeks
Years
Decades

Less than a year more than a week.

I am going with years not decades

not sure where months disappeared tp

I disagree. Nothing to be gained from occupying other than pleasing a few flag wavers. The land is worthless.

Also do you realise that a lot of the troops are reservists? Essentially middle class conscripts. Their deaths wouldn't go down well.

This is why they withdrew from Lebanon.

After 15 years.

Hamas will have been planning for what is coming

I think it was recent enough for Israel to remember. I think it will be more 20 years before the US tries to invade Afghanistan again.

I think I said at the start of the Ukraine war, there are very few successful modern examples of how to occupy a country without removing all the locals. Tibet is one perhaps.

rick_chasey

TheBigBean said:

surrey_commuter said:

TheBigBean said:

surrey_commuter said:

Jezyboy said:

surrey_commuter said:

Assuming Israeli tanks roll into Gaza do we think they will be there for;


Days
Weeks
Years
Decades

Less than a year more than a week.

I am going with years not decades

not sure where months disappeared tp

I disagree. Nothing to be gained from occupying other than pleasing a few flag wavers. The land is worthless.

Also do you realise that a lot of the troops are reservists? Essentially middle class conscripts. Their deaths wouldn't go down well.

This is why they withdrew from Lebanon.

After 15 years.

Hamas will have been planning for what is coming

I think it was recent enough for Israel to remember. I think it will be more 20 years before the US tries to invade Afghanistan again.

I think I said at the start of the Ukraine war, there are very few successful modern examples of how to occupy a country without removing all the locals. Tibet is one perhaps.

Crimea? *runs and hides behind sofa*

veronese68

TheBigBean said:

veronese68 said:

TheBigBean said:

So about this ULEZ stuff. Apparently, when paying for visitor parking on the street, I'm going to have to pay based on their ULEZ status. It's not something I have much control over. For example, bloke gets sent to fix my washing machine and I need to pay if he turns up in a dirty vehicle.

I don't have a problem with ulez, but that's ridiculous. If it's left parked up for a few days it's not emitting anything.

It's visitor parking so for less than 4 hours. There might be an all day option too. I'm perfectly happy for them to be hit for the ULEZ charge on entry, bit not sure why I need to be hit too when I have no control.

Ah, we have options for all day, 6 or 1 hour. So it could be left and have multiple all day permits.
Richmond council were considering charging more for parking permits according to emissions a few years back. So for a colleague that walked or cycled to work would have found it cheaper to start driving had the plan gone ahead. Admittedly not many would fall into similar circumstances.

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

TheBigBean said:

surrey_commuter said:

TheBigBean said:

surrey_commuter said:

Jezyboy said:

surrey_commuter said:

Assuming Israeli tanks roll into Gaza do we think they will be there for;


Days
Weeks
Years
Decades

Less than a year more than a week.

I am going with years not decades

not sure where months disappeared tp

I disagree. Nothing to be gained from occupying other than pleasing a few flag wavers. The land is worthless.

Also do you realise that a lot of the troops are reservists? Essentially middle class conscripts. Their deaths wouldn't go down well.

This is why they withdrew from Lebanon.

After 15 years.

Hamas will have been planning for what is coming

I think it was recent enough for Israel to remember. I think it will be more 20 years before the US tries to invade Afghanistan again.

I think I said at the start of the Ukraine war, there are very few successful modern examples of how to occupy a country without removing all the locals. Tibet is one perhaps.

Crimea? *runs and hides behind sofa*

All the locals were removed and replaced with Russians prior to the break up of the Soviet Union

rick_chasey

A century before….

surrey_commuter

TheBigBean said:

surrey_commuter said:

TheBigBean said:

surrey_commuter said:

Jezyboy said:

surrey_commuter said:

Assuming Israeli tanks roll into Gaza do we think they will be there for;


Days
Weeks
Years
Decades

Less than a year more than a week.

I am going with years not decades

not sure where months disappeared tp

I disagree. Nothing to be gained from occupying other than pleasing a few flag wavers. The land is worthless.

Also do you realise that a lot of the troops are reservists? Essentially middle class conscripts. Their deaths wouldn't go down well.

This is why they withdrew from Lebanon.

After 15 years.

Hamas will have been planning for what is coming

I think it was recent enough for Israel to remember. I think it will be more 20 years before the US tries to invade Afghanistan again.

I think I said at the start of the Ukraine war, there are very few successful modern examples of how to occupy a country without removing all the locals. Tibet is one perhaps.

The problem with history is timeframes.

Yours is a good question, how about Germany or the entire Eastern bloc (is 50 years long enough to be a success?

TheBigBean

rick_chasey said:

A century before….

1944

I don't count taking over and occupying a region mostly made up of your country's nationals as quite the same level of achievement. That's why I assumed you were talking about the time before that.