S*** Small Races 2023

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  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,706
    Commentary team knew nothing of that section but it allowed Pogacar to put the rest to the sword again.
    Man against boys.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 27,762
    He goes again, really sticking it to the other GC boys.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 27,762
    This is good racing.
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,706
    Constant suggestions that Bahrain should try a tactical move on Pogacar without actually specifying what might work.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,449
    blazing_saddles said:

    Constant suggestions that Bahrain should try a tactical move on Pogacar without actually specifying what might work.

    One of them crashing Pogacar out was the only feasible option.
  • mididoctors
    mididoctors Posts: 18,791
    You have to wear him down ...in a week long race that's unlikely. His team are strong too ...
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 27,762
    Great finish by Magnus Cort - Van Wilder absolutely holding everyone off, celebrates as Cort rides past him.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 27,762
    kingstongraham said:

    Great finish by Magnus Cort - Van Wilder absolutely holding everyone off, celebrates as Cort rides past him.

    Who was the last to do that? van Aert?
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,706
    Horrible climb.
    Sprinter able to beat a bunch of climbers and 85kg trialists able to hang on.

    Pidcock best of Ineos’s poor bunch, after towing everyone up the entire climb.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 27,762
    blazing_saddles said:

    Horrible climb.
    Sprinter able to beat a bunch of climbers and 85kg trialists able to hang on.

    Pidcock best of Ineos’s poor bunch, after towing everyone up the entire climb.

    Yes, it's all very well being impressed by Castroviejo towing everyone up the climb, but if they don't drop Ganna, it's not really worth it.
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 27,762
    edited February 2023
    kingstongraham said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Great finish by Magnus Cort - Van Wilder absolutely holding everyone off, celebrates as Cort rides past him.

    Who was the last to do that? van Aert?
    Answering my own question, last year van Aert passed it on to Bettiol, who passed it on to Philipsen.

  • r0bh
    r0bh Posts: 2,382
    kingstongraham said:

    kingstongraham said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Great finish by Magnus Cort - Van Wilder absolutely holding everyone off, celebrates as Cort rides past him.

    Who was the last to do that? van Aert?
    Answering my own question, last year van Aert passed it on to Bettiol, who passed it on to Philipsen.

    That's a different category I think? Celebrating a win when the actual winner was up the road. Not an early celebration allowing someone else to win
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 27,762
    r0bh said:

    kingstongraham said:

    kingstongraham said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Great finish by Magnus Cort - Van Wilder absolutely holding everyone off, celebrates as Cort rides past him.

    Who was the last to do that? van Aert?
    Answering my own question, last year van Aert passed it on to Bettiol, who passed it on to Philipsen.

    That's a different category I think? Celebrating a win when the actual winner was up the road. Not an early celebration allowing someone else to win
    Maybe van Aert still had it from the Daupine then.
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,449
    r0bh said:

    kingstongraham said:

    kingstongraham said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Great finish by Magnus Cort - Van Wilder absolutely holding everyone off, celebrates as Cort rides past him.

    Who was the last to do that? van Aert?
    Answering my own question, last year van Aert passed it on to Bettiol, who passed it on to Philipsen.

    That's a different category I think? Celebrating a win when the actual winner was up the road. Not an early celebration allowing someone else to win
    Philipsen disagrees:

  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,241
    edited February 2023
    Pross said:

    gsk82 said:

    blazing_saddles said:

    Mas mechanical.
    Pogacar will have a huge gap by the finish.

    Is it ominous he's already riding away or has he not learnt he needs to stop spreading him keep it so thinly if he wants to win the tour?
    I just hope he keeps doing it, I would much rather see a rider trying to win everything they ride than concentrating on the Tour (as a sponsor my views might differ though). For far too long we've had the top riders concentrating on a few races a year at most.

    That's a myth though. Pogacar's predecessors, Contador and Froome usually rode to win all season. Go and have a look at Froome's 2013 season. He was almost unbeaten in stage races til the end of the Tour (came 2nd in TA). In 2015 they were first and second in the very race Pogacar is now winning, duelling on the two queen stages.

    Don't fall for this 'new generation' malarky

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONfjCtGmuFk

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6S-vH3H9dic
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,241
    To emphasise my point, Green Mountain at the Tour of Oman ten years and a day apart

    2023



    2013

    Twitter: @RichN95
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 27,762
    Now do october.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,241
    edited February 2023
    kingstongraham said:

    Now do october.


    I will when any of this new generation contest two Grand Tours in year. But to humour you guess who won Lombardia in 2013? Yes, it was Rodriguez. In between he was third at the Tour and fourth at the Vuelta.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,540
    RichN95. said:

    Pross said:

    gsk82 said:

    blazing_saddles said:

    Mas mechanical.
    Pogacar will have a huge gap by the finish.

    Is it ominous he's already riding away or has he not learnt he needs to stop spreading him keep it so thinly if he wants to win the tour?
    I just hope he keeps doing it, I would much rather see a rider trying to win everything they ride than concentrating on the Tour (as a sponsor my views might differ though). For far too long we've had the top riders concentrating on a few races a year at most.

    That's a myth though. Pogacar's predecessors, Contador and Froome usually rode to win all season. Go and have a look at Froome's 2013 season. He was almost unbeaten in stage races til the end of the Tour (came 2nd in TA). In 2015 they were first and second in the very race Pogacar is now winning, duelling on the two queen stages.

    Don't fall for this 'new generation' malarky

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONfjCtGmuFk

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6S-vH3H9dic
    So in 2015 Contador put time into Froome in the mountains in January, but by July was losing lots of time to him in the tour. Feels like Froome wasn't riding at his peak in the early season.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,241
    edited February 2023
    TheBigBean said:



    So in 2015 Contador put time into Froome in the mountains in January, but by July was losing lots of time to him in the tour. Feels like Froome wasn't riding at his peak in the early season.

    Watch both clips. Contador put time into Froome. The very next day Froome put time into him and won the race. Contador went on the win the Giro (then 5th at the Tour), Froome won the Tour. But this was the old generation when the top riders didn't race to win unless it was the big races.

    It's only Pogacar of the GC guys who's doing anything at the moment, but apparently this is a new attitude from the new generation.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,540
    RichN95. said:

    TheBigBean said:



    So in 2015 Contador put time into Froome in the mountains in January, but by July was losing lots of time to him in the tour. Feels like Froome wasn't riding at his peak in the early season.

    Watch both clips. Contador put time into Froome. The very next day Froome put time into him and won the race. Contador went on the win the Giro (then 5th at the Tour), Froome won the Tour. But this was the old generation when the top riders didn't race to win unless it was the big races.

    It's only Pogacar of the GC guys who's doing anything at the moment, but apparently this is a new attitude from the new generation.
    It's mostly a fair comment when you make the comparison against Froome and Contador, but only for stage races. Neither of them contested any classics.

  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,241
    edited February 2023
    TheBigBean said:



    It's mostly a fair comment when you make the comparison against Froome and Contador, but only for stage races. Neither of them contested any classics.

    True, but the original comment that I responded to was that the past generations only did these races for training, which is nonsense. It's a narrative which I frequently hear (in the Cycling Podcast for example). But it's just not true. I also mentioned Nibali and Rodriguez - GT riders with 5 monuments wins and 12 podiums between them.

    Ultimately, I'm fed up with this 'the new generation are breaking the mould' narrative which doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • TheBigBean
    TheBigBean Posts: 21,540
    RichN95. said:

    TheBigBean said:



    It's mostly a fair comment when you make the comparison against Froome and Contador, but only for stage races. Neither of them contested any classics.

    True, but the original comment that I responded to was that the past generations only did these races for training, which is nonsense. It's a narrative which I frequently hear (in the Cycling Podcast for example). But it's just not true. I also mentioned Nibali and Rodriguez - GT riders with 5 monuments wins and 12 podiums between them.
    There's also Valverde, but one of the things I liked about Contador, Froome, Valverde and Nibali (less so) was that they raced all season. Froome made the Vuelta interesting for several years. Therefore, there must be lots of other riders who didn't for them to stand out as the exceptions. But you are right, Pogacar is not the first.
  • RichN95.
    RichN95. Posts: 27,241
    edited February 2023
    TheBigBean said:



    There's also Valverde, but one of the things I liked about Contador, Froome, Valverde and Nibali (less so) was that they raced all season. Froome made the Vuelta interesting for several years. Therefore, there must be lots of other riders who didn't for them to stand out as the exceptions. But you are right, Pogacar is not the first.


    Basically this comes down to by belief that while the media are falling over themselves to exult the new generation, they are actually not noticing that maybe the greatest generation in the history of cycling, those born 1980-1985 have almost disappeared. And the idea that this new generation are riding in a different way, they're not, it's not really any different.

    For example, for the media narrative (I wish no ill on Cillian, he seems nice)


    Twitter: @RichN95
  • andyp
    andyp Posts: 10,449
    Top level bike racers in wanting to race their bike shocker.

    I think there is a tendency amongst journalists, and people more generally, to accept what they saw when they were growing up as the norm. In the peak doping years - so 1990 through to 2006 - the top riders generally weren't competitive in early spring, especially those aiming for the Tour. This is a generalisation of course, as I'm sure anyone can find an example of a Tour winning doing well in an early season race, but there was definitely a pattern, presumably because their doping patterns dictated a slow build up to a high peak.

    In the 1970s and 80s and before that (although I'm too young to know), the big names generally raced all year round as they do now, so that era of Indurain and Armstrong was the anomaly, not the norm.
  • mrb123
    mrb123 Posts: 4,787
    What website/app to people use to keep up to date with all these smaller races?
  • Dorset_Boy
    Dorset_Boy Posts: 7,395
    mrb123 said:

    What website/app to people use to keep up to date with all these smaller races?

    This one! :D
  • rick_chasey
    rick_chasey Posts: 75,661
    edited February 2023
    RichN95. said:

    Pross said:

    gsk82 said:

    blazing_saddles said:

    Mas mechanical.
    Pogacar will have a huge gap by the finish.

    Is it ominous he's already riding away or has he not learnt he needs to stop spreading him keep it so thinly if he wants to win the tour?
    I just hope he keeps doing it, I would much rather see a rider trying to win everything they ride than concentrating on the Tour (as a sponsor my views might differ though). For far too long we've had the top riders concentrating on a few races a year at most.

    That's a myth though. Pogacar's predecessors, Contador and Froome usually rode to win all season. Go and have a look at Froome's 2013 season. He was almost unbeaten in stage races til the end of the Tour (came 2nd in TA). In 2015 they were first and second in the very race Pogacar is now winning, duelling on the two queen stages.

    Don't fall for this 'new generation' malarky

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONfjCtGmuFk

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6S-vH3H9dic
    Never pass up an opportunity to big up your boy, Rich ;)
    _
  • wakemalcolm
    wakemalcolm Posts: 825
    I think there's some subtle differences here:

    Froome was effectively sitting an entrance exam for leadership of the Sky tour team. He had no option other than to gun it from the start. Probably explains why he didn't ride the Vuelta that year and his season pretty much ended after July.

    The Froomigation MO was very different to the current Pogcineration. Yes, he won plenty of GCs but he didn't win that many stages.

    It's interesting to look back at how dominant he was though.
    ================================
    Cake is just weakness entering the body
  • kingstongraham
    kingstongraham Posts: 27,762
    RichN95. said:

    kingstongraham said:

    Now do october.


    I will when any of this new generation contest two Grand Tours in year. But to humour you guess who won Lombardia in 2013? Yes, it was Rodriguez. In between he was third at the Tour and fourth at the Vuelta.
    I am not sure that season screams dominance through the whole year by any one rider then.

    It's interesting that the current crop have decided that two GTs aren't worth it if there's a chance of a late season one day race, it's true.

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