S*** Small Races 2023
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Sure, that was the way to play it, but glad that he still couldn't come past.andyp said:
Vingegaard is the race leader so it's accepted that he'll get sat on by the second placed rider if he breaks away.Mad_Malx said:Basque St4: Landa sits on Vinegar's wheel for 20km, but happily Vingegaard still takes it and holds overall.
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Shirley it always looks that way? Take away the top handful then you get the second handful who then look like a class above. The current top tier are (objectively) up there with the all time greats.gsk82 said:The standard of the field excluding the top few riders seems very poor at the moment.
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I think this is true. There is a lot of recency in people's thinking. They talk of the the 'big three' above all others in the classics, but Pidcock won Strade and Van Baarle & Mohoric won MSR & Roubaix last year. Pogacar is something we haven't seen since the 80s at least. He's the only one who has booked his place in my hard to enter Hall of Fame*, but otherwise it's business as usual.Mad_Malx said:
Shirley it always looks that way? Take away the top handful then you get the second handful who then look like a class above. The current top tier are (objectively) up there with the all time greats.gsk82 said:The standard of the field excluding the top few riders seems very poor at the moment.
*From the post Armstrong era only Contador, Froome, Cavendish, Nibali, Valverde, Gilbert, Sagan, Cancellara & Boonen are in.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Landa would lose a one up sprint against himselfMad_Malx said:
Sure, that was the way to play it, but glad that he still couldn't come past.andyp said:
Vingegaard is the race leader so it's accepted that he'll get sat on by the second placed rider if he breaks away.Mad_Malx said:Basque St4: Landa sits on Vinegar's wheel for 20km, but happily Vingegaard still takes it and holds overall.
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Harsh on Lars Bak imo.RichN95. said:
I think this is true. There is a lot of recency in people's thinking. They talk of the the 'big three' above all others in the classics, but Pidcock won Strade and Van Baarle & Mohoric won MSR & Roubaix last year. Pogacar is something we haven't seen since the 80s at least. He's the only one who has booked his place in my hard to enter Hall of Fame*, but otherwise it's business as usual.Mad_Malx said:
Shirley it always looks that way? Take away the top handful then you get the second handful who then look like a class above. The current top tier are (objectively) up there with the all time greats.gsk82 said:The standard of the field excluding the top few riders seems very poor at the moment.
*From the post Armstrong era only Contador, Froome, Cavendish, Nibali, Valverde, Gilbert, Sagan, Cancellara & Boonen are in.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
That's a short listRichN95. said:
Courtesy of @velostatistics on twitter, the ones to better Cav & Valverde are:mididoctors said:
Good shoutDeadCalm said:
Davide Rebellin?RichN95. said:
I genuinely looked at Fleche and missed it. I looked at Valverde, Zoetemelk, Poulidor and BartaliTheBigBean said:
Valverde also matches it with La Flèche Wallonne. He has 15 year gap between 2nd at the worlds and 1st which is probably more notable.RichN95. said:I've mentioned this on twitter - but 16 years between first and last podium for Cav. Can anyone beat that. I looked at the likely suspects and found Zoetemelk at Amstel (15 years) and Poulidor at the Tour (14 years). Maybe Valverde.
Edit: Valverde matches it at the Vuelta
He won san Sebastien back in 97/98 iirc.... God knows when his last podium was
18 years: Pierino Gavazzi at the Trofeo Matteoti 1973-1991
17 years: Davide Rebellin at the GP Prato 1998-2015
17 years: Fausto Coppi at the Coppa Bernocchi 1939-1956
17 years: Aldo Bini at Milano-Torino 1935-1952
"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
LOLNo_Ta_Doctor said:
Harsh on Lars Bak imo.RichN95. said:
I think this is true. There is a lot of recency in people's thinking. They talk of the the 'big three' above all others in the classics, but Pidcock won Strade and Van Baarle & Mohoric won MSR & Roubaix last year. Pogacar is something we haven't seen since the 80s at least. He's the only one who has booked his place in my hard to enter Hall of Fame*, but otherwise it's business as usual.Mad_Malx said:
Shirley it always looks that way? Take away the top handful then you get the second handful who then look like a class above. The current top tier are (objectively) up there with the all time greats.gsk82 said:The standard of the field excluding the top few riders seems very poor at the moment.
*From the post Armstrong era only Contador, Froome, Cavendish, Nibali, Valverde, Gilbert, Sagan, Cancellara & Boonen are in."If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
I think.the field is super stronggsk82 said:The standard of the field excluding the top few riders seems very poor at the moment.
"If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
I view it the other way.gsk82 said:The standard of the field excluding the top few riders seems very poor at the moment.
The field is fine, top few are exceptional.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.1 -
pblakeney said:
I view it the other way.gsk82 said:The standard of the field excluding the top few riders seems very poor at the moment.
The field is fine, top few are exceptional.
I think one is exceptional - possibly the Herecles of cycling. Evenepoel is on the way, but he needs to meet Pogacar Highlander style. There can be only one. Maybe MVDP is a third, but he strikes me as someone who is doing this part time. I'm not convinced anyone else is going to do anything above and beyond that will put them in the exceptional Hall of Fame category that I mentioned earlierTwitter: @RichN950 -
A three-time monument winner, with four additional podium finishes, plus Tour and Giro stages and other top tier wins, and you're not convinced. He might not race a lot of days, but the quality of performances is exceptional.RichN95. said:pblakeney said:
I view it the other way.gsk82 said:The standard of the field excluding the top few riders seems very poor at the moment.
The field is fine, top few are exceptional.
I think one is exceptional - possibly the Herecles of cycling. Evenepoel is on the way, but he needs to meet Pogacar Highlander style. There can be only one. Maybe MVDP is a third, but he strikes me as someone who is doing this part time. I'm not convinced anyone else is going to do anything above and beyond that will put them in the exceptional Hall of Fame category that I mentioned earlier0 -
Nibali is a little fortunate to make that company for me. On the surface his palmares is impressive, but he never came close to winning a GT when either Froome or Contador finished the race, which means he's a level below those two. This is especially so when one of his Giri was primarily because his rival crashed while in his Tour win he beat the likes of Pinot and Peraud. The following year, when Froome finished, Nibali was 8 minutes back.RichN95. said:
I think this is true. There is a lot of recency in people's thinking. They talk of the the 'big three' above all others in the classics, but Pidcock won Strade and Van Baarle & Mohoric won MSR & Roubaix last year. Pogacar is something we haven't seen since the 80s at least. He's the only one who has booked his place in my hard to enter Hall of Fame*, but otherwise it's business as usual.Mad_Malx said:
Shirley it always looks that way? Take away the top handful then you get the second handful who then look like a class above. The current top tier are (objectively) up there with the all time greats.gsk82 said:The standard of the field excluding the top few riders seems very poor at the moment.
*From the post Armstrong era only Contador, Froome, Cavendish, Nibali, Valverde, Gilbert, Sagan, Cancellara & Boonen are in.0 -
Nibali will always be close to my heart because he was tactically so smart / aggressive and he raced the classics just as hard.
But ya, pedal by pedal, he was not at the same level as the rest.0 -
What does Van Aert need to do to get onto the list? Surely he only needs to pick up a monument or two? His Tour record is phenomenalWarning No formatter is installed for the format1
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You're not far off describing Simon Gerrans there. VdP will surely win lots more and book his place, but he's got to actually do it.andyp said:
A three-time monument winner, with four additional podium finishes, plus Tour and Giro stages and other top tier wins, and you're not convinced.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Generally I think it's hard to consider a rider 'great' unless they have won the Tour or the WCRR (Cancellara an exception here - as are Kelly & De Vlaeminck from the olden days))No_Ta_Doctor said:What does Van Aert need to do to get onto the list? Surely he only needs to pick up a monument or two? His Tour record is phenomenal
Twitter: @RichN950 -
Phenomonal tour record - really?No_Ta_Doctor said:What does Van Aert need to do to get onto the list? Surely he only needs to pick up a monument or two? His Tour record is phenomenal
A handful of stages is all the record books will show.
Not as good at CX as MvdP.
Not as good at classics and monuments as MvdP either.1 -
He isn’t but he should be.Dorset_Boy said:
Phenomonal tour record - really?No_Ta_Doctor said:What does Van Aert need to do to get onto the list? Surely he only needs to pick up a monument or two? His Tour record is phenomenal
A handful of stages is all the record books will show.
Not as good at CX as MvdP.
Not as good at classics and monuments as MvdP either.Pinno, מלך אידיוט וחרא מכונאי0 -
No rider has ever performed that well in the super domestique role and win that spread of stages across the same tours in my viewing yearsDorset_Boy said:
Phenomonal tour record - really?No_Ta_Doctor said:What does Van Aert need to do to get onto the list? Surely he only needs to pick up a monument or two? His Tour record is phenomenal
A handful of stages is all the record books will show.
Not as good at CX as MvdP.
Not as good at classics and monuments as MvdP either."If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm0 -
A handful? He's got 9 stage wins. Only two current riders have more than him - both are on Rich's list. I don't remember another rider in my lifetime that's won TT, mountain and sprint stages in the same tour.Dorset_Boy said:
Phenomonal tour record - really?No_Ta_Doctor said:What does Van Aert need to do to get onto the list? Surely he only needs to pick up a monument or two? His Tour record is phenomenal
A handful of stages is all the record books will show.
Not as good at CX as MvdP.
Not as good at classics and monuments as MvdP either.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
The super domestique bit doesn't get him any points in my hall of fame analysis.mididoctors said:
No rider has ever performed that well in the super domestique role and win that spread of stages across the same tours in my viewing yearsDorset_Boy said:
Phenomonal tour record - really?No_Ta_Doctor said:What does Van Aert need to do to get onto the list? Surely he only needs to pick up a monument or two? His Tour record is phenomenal
A handful of stages is all the record books will show.
Not as good at CX as MvdP.
Not as good at classics and monuments as MvdP either.0 -
Quite funny that extreme excellence is the benchmark in S*** Small Races thread 😉The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.1 -
His Tour record is almost as good as Thor Hushovd's. Thor won sprints, a prologue, a mountain stage and a cobble stage. Thor's got one more stage win, one more green jersey and one more TTT win.No_Ta_Doctor said:
A handful? He's got 9 stage wins. Only two current riders have more than him - both are on Rich's list. I don't remember another rider in my lifetime that's won TT, mountain and sprint stages in the same tour.Dorset_Boy said:
Phenomonal tour record - really?No_Ta_Doctor said:What does Van Aert need to do to get onto the list? Surely he only needs to pick up a monument or two? His Tour record is phenomenal
A handful of stages is all the record books will show.
Not as good at CX as MvdP.
Not as good at classics and monuments as MvdP either.Twitter: @RichN950 -
Yes, but it took him 11 tours to get those 10 wins. That's far less impact than 9 wins from 4 tours.RichN95. said:
His Tour record is almost as good as Thor Hushovd's. Thor won sprints, a prologue, a mountain stage and a cobble stage. Thor's got one more stage win, one more green jersey and one more TTT win.No_Ta_Doctor said:
A handful? He's got 9 stage wins. Only two current riders have more than him - both are on Rich's list. I don't remember another rider in my lifetime that's won TT, mountain and sprint stages in the same tour.Dorset_Boy said:
Phenomonal tour record - really?No_Ta_Doctor said:What does Van Aert need to do to get onto the list? Surely he only needs to pick up a monument or two? His Tour record is phenomenal
A handful of stages is all the record books will show.
Not as good at CX as MvdP.
Not as good at classics and monuments as MvdP either.Warning No formatter is installed for the format0 -
WvA’s last Tour was the single most impressive tour I’ve seen ever from a non-GC rider.
Stunning. I don’t know how a rider could have shaped the race anymore without going for yellow.
We do have a problem that there seems to be a steep drop off behind the big guns at the moment - presumably why the big guns can wrestle the races down to man v man so regularly.0 -
Ed Pickering was making this point last week, after Flanders. The second tier favourites knew their only chance to win was to anticipate the action from the big three and get ahead of them in the race. Which many of them did to perfection, getting a 3 minute gap. But ultimately, it didn't matter, because once Pogacar, WvA and MvdP accelerated, they could close the three minutes quite easily on their own.rick_chasey said:WvA’s last Tour was the single most impressive tour I’ve seen ever from a non-GC rider.
Stunning. I don’t know how a rider could have shaped the race anymore without going for yellow.
We do have a problem that there seems to be a steep drop off behind the big guns at the moment - presumably why the big guns can wrestle the races down to man v man so regularly.0 -
I guess that’s why the racing feels old school and non “specialists” like Pog can go out and win Flanders because they’re so far ahead of the rest, the “specialist” advantage is irrelevant.0
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Would a Tour have gained a place for Roglic?RichN95. said:
I think this is true. There is a lot of recency in people's thinking. They talk of the the 'big three' above all others in the classics, but Pidcock won Strade and Van Baarle & Mohoric won MSR & Roubaix last year. Pogacar is something we haven't seen since the 80s at least. He's the only one who has booked his place in my hard to enter Hall of Fame*, but otherwise it's business as usual.Mad_Malx said:
Shirley it always looks that way? Take away the top handful then you get the second handful who then look like a class above. The current top tier are (objectively) up there with the all time greats.gsk82 said:The standard of the field excluding the top few riders seems very poor at the moment.
*From the post Armstrong era only Contador, Froome, Cavendish, Nibali, Valverde, Gilbert, Sagan, Cancellara & Boonen are in.
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