The Big 'Let's sell our cars and take buses/ebikes instead' thread (warning: probably very dull)

Pross

kingstongraham said:

Pross said:

ugo.santalucia said:

kingstongraham said:

They should speed limit cars - why should any car be able to go over 70mph?

because if you drive in France you can do 80… in Germany there are no limits on some roads, but that seems more their problem that anyone else’s
Limiting to 80 seems a good compromise

They’re making right hand drive cars for the UK market. Altering the software to suit a specific market shouldn’t be too hard.

Also, there are plenty of cars with engines that do over 60mpg that can easily do 120mph plus. The Golf GTD has combined figures over over 67mpg and a top speed over 140mph.

I bet it doesn't get that fuel consumption at that speed.

I don't think anyone claims that, I was just pointing out that fuel efficiency isn't automatically going to limit speed. If you are setting an arbitrary minimum mpg for a vehicle it needs to be using some sort of standard definition which at the momeny seems to generally be the combined cycle. Maybe there's some way the engine management system could actually limit the amount of fuel being used but I could see that causing problems such as suddenly losing power when you need to accelerate.

Pross

ugo.santalucia said:

Pross said:

ugo.santalucia said:

kingstongraham said:

They should speed limit cars - why should any car be able to go over 70mph?

because if you drive in France you can do 80… in Germany there are no limits on some roads, but that seems more their problem that anyone else’s
Limiting to 80 seems a good compromise

They’re making right hand drive cars for the UK market. Altering the software to suit a specific market shouldn’t be too hard.

Also, there are plenty of cars with engines that do over 60mpg that can easily do 120mph plus. The Golf GTD has combined figures over over 67mpg and a top speed over 140mph.

but it is diesel innit… diesel should have been banned ages ago. Or at least restricted to non built up areas.

Well in that case the deciding issue is going to be that there a virtually no petrol cars with a range over the 60mpg you were suggesting and everyone would have to use EVs, hybrids or a Mazda 2 which is the only petrol engined car I can find with economy over 60mpg and that model does 114mph top speed so it still doesn't follow that it would enforce a 70mph limit. EVs and hybrids tend to pretty rapid too.

ugo.santalucia

Pross said:

ugo.santalucia said:

Pross said:

ugo.santalucia said:

kingstongraham said:

They should speed limit cars - why should any car be able to go over 70mph?

because if you drive in France you can do 80… in Germany there are no limits on some roads, but that seems more their problem that anyone else’s
Limiting to 80 seems a good compromise

They’re making right hand drive cars for the UK market. Altering the software to suit a specific market shouldn’t be too hard.

Also, there are plenty of cars with engines that do over 60mpg that can easily do 120mph plus. The Golf GTD has combined figures over over 67mpg and a top speed over 140mph.

but it is diesel innit… diesel should have been banned ages ago. Or at least restricted to non built up areas.

Well in that case the deciding issue is going to be that there a virtually no petrol cars with a range over the 60mpg you were suggesting and everyone would have to use EVs, hybrids or a Mazda 2 which is the only petrol engined car I can find with economy over 60mpg and that model does 114mph top speed so it still doesn't follow that it would enforce a 70mph limit. EVs and hybrids tend to pretty rapid too.

Mine does about 55 real average, so it is not far off and I am sure manufacturers would have reached that figure easily if they were required to do so.
The problem is that they were never required to clean their act in that respect... but now that electric can take over the sportscar market, then there is room to have some really economic petrol cars for the masses

ugo.santalucia

they could in fact, amend their plans and allow the sale of ultra low emission petrol cars beyond 2030whatever…
if they don’t, there will be a large number of people hanging on to their ageing gas guzzlers either because they cannot financially upgrade to electric, or because they do not want to go electric.

briantrumpet

kingstongraham said:

ugo.santalucia said:

kingstongraham said:

They should speed limit cars - why should any car be able to go over 70mph?

because if you drive in France you can do 80… in Germany there are no limits on some roads, but that seems more their problem that anyone else’s
Limiting to 80 seems a good compromise

Maybe we just need loads more average speed cameras.

I'd prefer really good speed cameras.

kingstongraham

briantrumpet said:

kingstongraham said:

ugo.santalucia said:

kingstongraham said:

They should speed limit cars - why should any car be able to go over 70mph?

because if you drive in France you can do 80… in Germany there are no limits on some roads, but that seems more their problem that anyone else’s
Limiting to 80 seems a good compromise

Maybe we just need loads more average speed cameras.

I'd prefer really good speed cameras.

Loads of both then. Fine with me. Put them all over everywhere.

mully79

Swapping my 150hp 2.0 litre diesel for a 154hp 1.4 litre petrol hybrid.

Just can’t believe how much power they can get of little petrol engines these days.

webboo

I swopped my 2 litre turbo diesel for a 1.6 eco diesel. I can accelerate faster on my bike. I can’t remember the last time I dared to overtake on a single carriageway road.

kingstongraham

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/features/love-cars-britain-has-declared-war-motorists-time-admit-defeat/

Cars have long been Britain’s apex predator, with the rest of our world submitting meekly to the whims and wants of the automobile. Whole cities have been carved up to better suit the needs of motor vehicles and their users; we accept the pollution, the noise and the thousands of deaths and serious injuries that take place each year on UK roads as a justified expense – the quid pro quo for a convenient mode of transport.

As mere pedestrians, we’ve seemingly accepted our place in the pecking order. The car has not only a weight advantage in any straight fight with a passer-by, but also a de facto moral authority. People must wait for permission to enter the street – a green light, sometimes with a countdown showing how many seconds you are allowed to spend there – lest we impede the flow of traffic. Anyone who steps off the pavement only has themselves to blame for momentarily forgetting their place.

It makes sense to me that the pecking order is changing, that the world is opening up to different, better ways of getting around. LTNs are a blunt instrument, but maybe there’s something in it. Cycle lanes are often put in the wrong place, but wouldn’t it be nice if more people could ride their bikes to school or work without risking being run over?

Pross

I agree with much of that but the last sentence has a touch of irony considering a large part of the rest of it is bemoaning pedestrians having to know their place. Creating more segregation just reinforces that 'right' to a particular space. I do think (high quality) cycle lanes are a good thing, especially linking major urban areas, but to make a real difference you probably need to move the focus to motor vehicles being the intruder in a space.

kingstongraham

Pross said:

I agree with much of that but the last sentence has a touch of irony considering a large part of the rest of it is bemoaning pedestrians having to know their place. Creating more segregation just reinforces that 'right' to a particular space. I do think (high quality) cycle lanes are a good thing, especially linking major urban areas, but to make a real difference you probably need to move the focus to motor vehicles being the intruder in a space.

It's a weird article - really tries to tread a fine line between what he's been briefed to write and what he seems to think.

lower speed limits in built-up areas reduce pedestrian deaths and injuries, especially among children, while only adding one minute per mile to car journey times. But my views are rarely shared by the driver directly behind me if and when I abide by the law in 20mph zones.

I enjoy riding my bicycle in LTNs, and in due course I hope more of the world will resemble these predominantly car-free enclaves

Stevo_666

More bad news for car haters.
https://ft.com/content/23e1fb1c-c34a-4aaa-adc6-e71853befb36

Well done to some of our European friends.

kingstongraham

Stevo_666 said:

More bad news for car haters.
https://ft.com/content/23e1fb1c-c34a-4aaa-adc6-e71853befb36

Well done to some of our European friends.

If you like it there so much etc

Stevo_666

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

More bad news for car haters.
https://ft.com/content/23e1fb1c-c34a-4aaa-adc6-e71853befb36

Well done to some of our European friends.

If you like it there so much etc

Not the point, is it.

And the backlash may spread.

rjsterry

No idea what it says as even the headline is behind the paywall.

rick_chasey

rjsterry said:

No idea what it says as even the headline is behind the paywall.

Germany & Italy are rowing back on part of their ambition to ban combustion engines in private cars.

kingstongraham

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

More bad news for car haters.
https://ft.com/content/23e1fb1c-c34a-4aaa-adc6-e71853befb36

Well done to some of our European friends.

If you like it there so much etc

Not the point, is it.

And the backlash may spread.

Brexit bonus.

Stevo_666

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

More bad news for car haters.
https://ft.com/content/23e1fb1c-c34a-4aaa-adc6-e71853befb36

Well done to some of our European friends.

If you like it there so much etc

Not the point, is it.

And the backlash may spread.

Brexit bonus.

We're quite capable of independently implementing a backlash of our own. Although if we are to keep close to the EU as many want, it might be a good idea to align where possible, no?

kingstongraham

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

More bad news for car haters.
https://ft.com/content/23e1fb1c-c34a-4aaa-adc6-e71853befb36

Well done to some of our European friends.

If you like it there so much etc

Not the point, is it.

And the backlash may spread.

Brexit bonus.

We're quite capable of independently implementing a backlash of our own. Although if we are to keep close to the EU as many want, it might be a good idea to align where possible, no?

I'd be all in on that - happy to commit to that opinion across all areas?

Stevo_666

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

kingstongraham said:

Stevo_666 said:

More bad news for car haters.
https://ft.com/content/23e1fb1c-c34a-4aaa-adc6-e71853befb36

Well done to some of our European friends.

If you like it there so much etc

Not the point, is it.

And the backlash may spread.

Brexit bonus.

We're quite capable of independently implementing a backlash of our own. Although if we are to keep close to the EU as many want, it might be a good idea to align where possible, no?

I'd be all in on that - happy to commit to that opinion across all areas?

Only on a case by case basis for me - this one makes sense if we can keep on enjoying proper cars.

rjsterry

ICE enthusiasts be like

Stevo_666

I'm not sure that EV enthusiasts exist as there's not much to get enthused about, but I guess the equivalent would be

ugo.santalucia

Stevo_666 said:

I'm not sure that EV enthusiasts exist as there's not much to get enthused about, but I guess the equivalent would be

EVs have in principle better performance than thermic engines. The acceleration is superior and the torque is immense.
I guess with some decent software you can waste some battery to replicate your favourite engine tune and vibrations...

Stevo_666

ugo.santalucia said:

Stevo_666 said:

I'm not sure that EV enthusiasts exist as there's not much to get enthused about, but I guess the equivalent would be

EVs have in principle better performance than thermic engines. The acceleration is superior and the torque is immense.
I guess with some decent software you can waste some battery to replicate your favourite engine tune and vibrations...

They make no proper noise and have no soul. And they are very heavy so their handling, braking and dynamics are inferior.

briantrumpet

Stevo_666 said:

ugo.santalucia said:

Stevo_666 said:

I'm not sure that EV enthusiasts exist as there's not much to get enthused about, but I guess the equivalent would be

EVs have in principle better performance than thermic engines. The acceleration is superior and the torque is immense.
I guess with some decent software you can waste some battery to replicate your favourite engine tune and vibrations...

They make no proper noise and have no soul. And they are very heavy so their handling, braking and dynamics are inferior.

Actually, these might be a bit heavier than you're used to, but they make a proper noise and you can take them on roads (see RJS). I reckon this one would be one of the nippier ones, being relatively small and stripped down.

kingstongraham

Stevo_666 said:

ugo.santalucia said:

Stevo_666 said:

I'm not sure that EV enthusiasts exist as there's not much to get enthused about, but I guess the equivalent would be

EVs have in principle better performance than thermic engines. The acceleration is superior and the torque is immense.
I guess with some decent software you can waste some battery to replicate your favourite engine tune and vibrations...

They make no proper noise and have no soul. And they are very heavy so their handling, braking and dynamics are inferior.

I hate to break it to you but your car has no soul either. It's all within you.

Stevo_666

EVs are based on technology that was invented in the 19th century

masjer

^Those batteries won't get you very far and are single use disposable. Lithium-ion batteries were invented in 2004, so a modern invention compared to the internal combustion engine (1860s).

photonic69

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

ugo.santalucia said:

Stevo_666 said:

I'm not sure that EV enthusiasts exist as there's not much to get enthused about, but I guess the equivalent would be

EVs have in principle better performance than thermic engines. The acceleration is superior and the torque is immense.
I guess with some decent software you can waste some battery to replicate your favourite engine tune and vibrations...

They make no proper noise and have no soul. And they are very heavy so their handling, braking and dynamics are inferior.

Actually, these might be a bit heavier than you're used to, but they make a proper noise and you can take them on roads (see RJS). I reckon this one would be one of the nippier ones, being relatively small and stripped down.

I believe that is an External Combustion Engine?

briantrumpet

photonic69 said:

briantrumpet said:

Stevo_666 said:

ugo.santalucia said:

Stevo_666 said:

I'm not sure that EV enthusiasts exist as there's not much to get enthused about, but I guess the equivalent would be

EVs have in principle better performance than thermic engines. The acceleration is superior and the torque is immense.
I guess with some decent software you can waste some battery to replicate your favourite engine tune and vibrations...

They make no proper noise and have no soul. And they are very heavy so their handling, braking and dynamics are inferior.

Actually, these might be a bit heavier than you're used to, but they make a proper noise and you can take them on roads (see RJS). I reckon this one would be one of the nippier ones, being relatively small and stripped down.

I believe that is an External Combustion Engine?

Even more noise, and full of character than an internal one. Even better, they are exempt from 'road tax'. Not sure if they are Ulez-compliant though.