The Big 'Let's sell our cars and take buses/ebikes instead' thread (warning: probably very dull)
Comments
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If that's the problem, a resident parking scheme does the job.ugo.santalucia said:
me neither, but roadside parking is a problem in less well off areaskingstongraham said:
What problem is that solving? I'm not massively concerned about cars that are parked up on someone's drive and not being driven.ugo.santalucia said:
there is an obvious solution to that, which is to tax very heavily any second car one owns. Household of 2 licences… 3 cars? Tax the third one 10 times over and they will sell it… another no brainerdavebradswmb said:
And that's despite car sales falling from 1.9 million in 1994 to 1.6 million last year. Car sales peaked in 2016 at 2.7 million. The increase in car registrations is due to older cars remaining on the road a lot longer. Old cars are cheap, and many households have several cars. Many of the houses on the road where I live have paved their front gardens and have 2 or 3 cars parked on it, and they still have another car parked on the road/grass verge, and it isn't a particularly affluent area.kingstongraham said:Just looked at the number of vehicles licenced in the UK for 1994 vs 2022.
The number of cars has gone up from 21 million to 35 million.0 -
Light goods vehicles up by 141% in the same period, which is an extra 3 million vehicles on top.0
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but it needs policing… it might end up costing to the council. Besides, getting rid of unnecessary cars is always a good exercise, just like getting rid of any redundant crapkingstongraham said:
If that's the problem, a resident parking scheme does the job.ugo.santalucia said:
me neither, but roadside parking is a problem in less well off areaskingstongraham said:
What problem is that solving? I'm not massively concerned about cars that are parked up on someone's drive and not being driven.ugo.santalucia said:
there is an obvious solution to that, which is to tax very heavily any second car one owns. Household of 2 licences… 3 cars? Tax the third one 10 times over and they will sell it… another no brainerdavebradswmb said:
And that's despite car sales falling from 1.9 million in 1994 to 1.6 million last year. Car sales peaked in 2016 at 2.7 million. The increase in car registrations is due to older cars remaining on the road a lot longer. Old cars are cheap, and many households have several cars. Many of the houses on the road where I live have paved their front gardens and have 2 or 3 cars parked on it, and they still have another car parked on the road/grass verge, and it isn't a particularly affluent area.kingstongraham said:Just looked at the number of vehicles licenced in the UK for 1994 vs 2022.
The number of cars has gone up from 21 million to 35 million.
left the forum March 20230 -
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Since 2000, car registrations have gone up about 18%. Population has risen 19% in the same period, and I bet the rise in over 17s exceeds that by some margin.
Suggests to me that per capita adult car ownership has already peaked.
We just need to stop letting more people into the UK. Which means, of course, stopping all the channel crossings. #torylogic0 -
Furthermore, the road length in Britain has not kept pace with the increase in population, having only risen by 2% since 2000.First.Aspect said:Since 2000, car registrations have gone up about 18%. Population has risen 19% in the same period, and I bet the rise in over 17s exceeds that by some margin.
Suggests to me that per capita adult car ownership has already peaked.
We just need to stop letting more people into the UK. Which means, of course, stopping all the channel crossings. #torylogic
The solution is obviously more roads or deportations.0 -
since we can no longer export pensioners to France and import younger highly educated workers for the EU, I guess the only solution is to close the ports and get those cannons out againFirst.Aspect said:Since 2000, car registrations have gone up about 18%. Population has risen 19% in the same period, and I bet the rise in over 17s exceeds that by some margin.
Suggests to me that per capita adult car ownership has already peaked.
We just need to stop letting more people into the UK. Which means, of course, stopping all the channel crossings. #torylogic
left the forum March 20230 -
One of Rick's concerns seemed to be the space cars take up.kingstongraham said:
What problem is that solving? I'm not massively concerned about cars that are parked up on someone's drive and not being driven.ugo.santalucia said:
there is an obvious solution to that, which is to tax very heavily any second car one owns. Household of 2 licences… 3 cars? Tax the third one 10 times over and they will sell it… another no brainerdavebradswmb said:
And that's despite car sales falling from 1.9 million in 1994 to 1.6 million last year. Car sales peaked in 2016 at 2.7 million. The increase in car registrations is due to older cars remaining on the road a lot longer. Old cars are cheap, and many households have several cars. Many of the houses on the road where I live have paved their front gardens and have 2 or 3 cars parked on it, and they still have another car parked on the road/grass verge, and it isn't a particularly affluent area.kingstongraham said:Just looked at the number of vehicles licenced in the UK for 1994 vs 2022.
The number of cars has gone up from 21 million to 35 million.0 -
Traffic is a geometrical problem.Pross said:
One of Rick's concerns seemed to be the space cars take up.kingstongraham said:
What problem is that solving? I'm not massively concerned about cars that are parked up on someone's drive and not being driven.ugo.santalucia said:
there is an obvious solution to that, which is to tax very heavily any second car one owns. Household of 2 licences… 3 cars? Tax the third one 10 times over and they will sell it… another no brainerdavebradswmb said:
And that's despite car sales falling from 1.9 million in 1994 to 1.6 million last year. Car sales peaked in 2016 at 2.7 million. The increase in car registrations is due to older cars remaining on the road a lot longer. Old cars are cheap, and many households have several cars. Many of the houses on the road where I live have paved their front gardens and have 2 or 3 cars parked on it, and they still have another car parked on the road/grass verge, and it isn't a particularly affluent area.kingstongraham said:Just looked at the number of vehicles licenced in the UK for 1994 vs 2022.
The number of cars has gone up from 21 million to 35 million.0 -
kingstongraham said:
Furthermore, the road length in Britain has not kept pace with the increase in population, having only risen by 2% since 2000.First.Aspect said:Since 2000, car registrations have gone up about 18%. Population has risen 19% in the same period, and I bet the rise in over 17s exceeds that by some margin.
Suggests to me that per capita adult car ownership has already peaked.
We just need to stop letting more people into the UK. Which means, of course, stopping all the channel crossings. #torylogic
The solution is obviously more roads or deportations.
I propose that an increase in road length in Britain is achieved by building the land out from Lands End and John O Groats to enable longer roads. This will of course mean and extra day or two for LEJOGers. Best get your rides in soon. But hey if it's anything like HS2 by the time it's built we'll all be dead or too old to ride.Sometimes. Maybe. Possibly.
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I was always intrigued by the number of
carstrucks there are in Canadian towns that have no road access. It was practically compulsory to have one if there was as much as 1km of roads in totals. Some people even had them in places with no roads at all - presumably to shuffle things around their own yards.0 -
You ought to be. Waste of real estate. We all have to live further out from places we want to be, or we can't have the greenery we want.kingstongraham said:
What problem is that solving? I'm not massively concerned about cars that are parked up on someone's drive and not being driven.ugo.santalucia said:
there is an obvious solution to that, which is to tax very heavily any second car one owns. Household of 2 licences… 3 cars? Tax the third one 10 times over and they will sell it… another no brainerdavebradswmb said:
And that's despite car sales falling from 1.9 million in 1994 to 1.6 million last year. Car sales peaked in 2016 at 2.7 million. The increase in car registrations is due to older cars remaining on the road a lot longer. Old cars are cheap, and many households have several cars. Many of the houses on the road where I live have paved their front gardens and have 2 or 3 cars parked on it, and they still have another car parked on the road/grass verge, and it isn't a particularly affluent area.kingstongraham said:Just looked at the number of vehicles licenced in the UK for 1994 vs 2022.
The number of cars has gone up from 21 million to 35 million.
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I have no idea what that means and have worked 30 odd years in a highway and traffic environment.rick_chasey said:
Traffic is a geometrical problem.Pross said:
One of Rick's concerns seemed to be the space cars take up.kingstongraham said:
What problem is that solving? I'm not massively concerned about cars that are parked up on someone's drive and not being driven.ugo.santalucia said:
there is an obvious solution to that, which is to tax very heavily any second car one owns. Household of 2 licences… 3 cars? Tax the third one 10 times over and they will sell it… another no brainerdavebradswmb said:
And that's despite car sales falling from 1.9 million in 1994 to 1.6 million last year. Car sales peaked in 2016 at 2.7 million. The increase in car registrations is due to older cars remaining on the road a lot longer. Old cars are cheap, and many households have several cars. Many of the houses on the road where I live have paved their front gardens and have 2 or 3 cars parked on it, and they still have another car parked on the road/grass verge, and it isn't a particularly affluent area.kingstongraham said:Just looked at the number of vehicles licenced in the UK for 1994 vs 2022.
The number of cars has gone up from 21 million to 35 million.0 -
What proportion of the area of the UK land mass is taken up by cars?rick_chasey said:
Traffic is a geometrical problem.Pross said:
One of Rick's concerns seemed to be the space cars take up.kingstongraham said:
What problem is that solving? I'm not massively concerned about cars that are parked up on someone's drive and not being driven.ugo.santalucia said:
there is an obvious solution to that, which is to tax very heavily any second car one owns. Household of 2 licences… 3 cars? Tax the third one 10 times over and they will sell it… another no brainerdavebradswmb said:
And that's despite car sales falling from 1.9 million in 1994 to 1.6 million last year. Car sales peaked in 2016 at 2.7 million. The increase in car registrations is due to older cars remaining on the road a lot longer. Old cars are cheap, and many households have several cars. Many of the houses on the road where I live have paved their front gardens and have 2 or 3 cars parked on it, and they still have another car parked on the road/grass verge, and it isn't a particularly affluent area.kingstongraham said:Just looked at the number of vehicles licenced in the UK for 1994 vs 2022.
The number of cars has gone up from 21 million to 35 million.
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I mean, we all know and understand this image;First.Aspect said:
What proportion of the area of the UK land mass is taken up by cars?rick_chasey said:
Traffic is a geometrical problem.Pross said:
One of Rick's concerns seemed to be the space cars take up.kingstongraham said:
What problem is that solving? I'm not massively concerned about cars that are parked up on someone's drive and not being driven.ugo.santalucia said:
there is an obvious solution to that, which is to tax very heavily any second car one owns. Household of 2 licences… 3 cars? Tax the third one 10 times over and they will sell it… another no brainerdavebradswmb said:
And that's despite car sales falling from 1.9 million in 1994 to 1.6 million last year. Car sales peaked in 2016 at 2.7 million. The increase in car registrations is due to older cars remaining on the road a lot longer. Old cars are cheap, and many households have several cars. Many of the houses on the road where I live have paved their front gardens and have 2 or 3 cars parked on it, and they still have another car parked on the road/grass verge, and it isn't a particularly affluent area.kingstongraham said:Just looked at the number of vehicles licenced in the UK for 1994 vs 2022.
The number of cars has gone up from 21 million to 35 million.
Traffic is a problem about space and the shape and size of how we get around.
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If that's what people want to use their property for, it's not my concern. I think it's weird they wouldn't rather have a garden or a basketball hoop, but not my problem.rick_chasey said:
You ought to be. Waste of real estate. We all have to live further out from places we want to be, or we can't have the greenery we want.kingstongraham said:
What problem is that solving? I'm not massively concerned about cars that are parked up on someone's drive and not being driven.ugo.santalucia said:
there is an obvious solution to that, which is to tax very heavily any second car one owns. Household of 2 licences… 3 cars? Tax the third one 10 times over and they will sell it… another no brainerdavebradswmb said:
And that's despite car sales falling from 1.9 million in 1994 to 1.6 million last year. Car sales peaked in 2016 at 2.7 million. The increase in car registrations is due to older cars remaining on the road a lot longer. Old cars are cheap, and many households have several cars. Many of the houses on the road where I live have paved their front gardens and have 2 or 3 cars parked on it, and they still have another car parked on the road/grass verge, and it isn't a particularly affluent area.kingstongraham said:Just looked at the number of vehicles licenced in the UK for 1994 vs 2022.
The number of cars has gone up from 21 million to 35 million.
If it's on the road, then it starts to become my problem.0 -
Ricktopia, with green spaces.
No thanks.
The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.1 -
Congestion on roads is caused by junctions not lack of road space. Away from junction the thing that causes a delay is some sort of obstruction along the lines of a collision or breakdown.0
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That's where we're all headed, right? That is where all the trends point to. So you've got to build something around that, rather than just decry that you don't like it and pretend it's not happening already.pblakeney said:Ricktopia, with green spaces.
No thanks.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/trend-deck-2021-urbanisation/trend-deck-2021-urbanisation
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Or cars parked on the road making it too narrow for two modern cars to pass each other.Pross said:Congestion on roads is caused by junctions not lack of road space. Away from junction the thing that causes a delay is some sort of obstruction along the lines of a collision or breakdown.
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Or a school.kingstongraham said:
Or cars parked on the road making it too narrow for two modern cars to pass each other.Pross said:Congestion on roads is caused by junctions not lack of road space. Away from junction the thing that causes a delay is some sort of obstruction along the lines of a collision or breakdown.
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Calling rjs to the thread - we need someone qualifies to explain why building up isn't more resource efficient. RC won't believe anyone else.rick_chasey said:
That's where we're all headed, right? That is where all the trends point to. So you've got to build something around that, rather than just decry that you don't like it and pretend it's not happening already.pblakeney said:Ricktopia, with green spaces.
No thanks.0 -
No, seriously? Are cars really wider than people? So glad you explained that for us.rick_chasey said:
I mean, we all know and understand this image;First.Aspect said:
What proportion of the area of the UK land mass is taken up by cars?rick_chasey said:
Traffic is a geometrical problem.Pross said:
One of Rick's concerns seemed to be the space cars take up.kingstongraham said:
What problem is that solving? I'm not massively concerned about cars that are parked up on someone's drive and not being driven.ugo.santalucia said:
there is an obvious solution to that, which is to tax very heavily any second car one owns. Household of 2 licences… 3 cars? Tax the third one 10 times over and they will sell it… another no brainerdavebradswmb said:
And that's despite car sales falling from 1.9 million in 1994 to 1.6 million last year. Car sales peaked in 2016 at 2.7 million. The increase in car registrations is due to older cars remaining on the road a lot longer. Old cars are cheap, and many households have several cars. Many of the houses on the road where I live have paved their front gardens and have 2 or 3 cars parked on it, and they still have another car parked on the road/grass verge, and it isn't a particularly affluent area.kingstongraham said:Just looked at the number of vehicles licenced in the UK for 1994 vs 2022.
The number of cars has gone up from 21 million to 35 million.
Traffic is a problem about space and the shape and size of how we get around.0 -
I mean, it is literally more land efficient, for starters. Is Los Angeles your ideal city or something?First.Aspect said:
Calling rjs to the thread - we need someone qualifies to explain why building up isn't more resource efficient. RC won't believe anyone else.rick_chasey said:
That's where we're all headed, right? That is where all the trends point to. So you've got to build something around that, rather than just decry that you don't like it and pretend it's not happening already.pblakeney said:Ricktopia, with green spaces.
No thanks.0 -
To an extent, that would come down to an obstruction. Although you can also argue it keeps vehicle speeds low in an urban environment. The bigger problem is that many drivers feel causing such inconvenience to motorists is a bad thing and it is better to park partially, or even fully, on the footway instead even when this often still means two cars can't pass.kingstongraham said:
Or cars parked on the road making it too narrow for two modern cars to pass each other.Pross said:Congestion on roads is caused by junctions not lack of road space. Away from junction the thing that causes a delay is some sort of obstruction along the lines of a collision or breakdown.
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You will get "phantom" james, i.e. jams of no particular cause, once you reach a critical mass of cars.Pross said:Congestion on roads is caused by junctions not lack of road space. Away from junction the thing that causes a delay is some sort of obstruction along the lines of a collision or breakdown.
https://news.mit.edu/2009/traffic-0609
I guess I was the only one here who watched the Royal Society Christmas lectures on geometry and traffic then.0 -
It is not an obstruction in the manner of a collision or breakdown, it is just the way urban roads work.Pross said:
To an extent, that would come down to an obstruction. Although you can also argue it keeps vehicle speeds low in an urban environment. The bigger problem is that many drivers feel causing such inconvenience to motorists is a bad thing and it is better to park partially, or even fully, on the footway instead even when this often still means two cars can't pass.kingstongraham said:
Or cars parked on the road making it too narrow for two modern cars to pass each other.Pross said:Congestion on roads is caused by junctions not lack of road space. Away from junction the thing that causes a delay is some sort of obstruction along the lines of a collision or breakdown.
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Pedestrians are able to pass each other at "junctions" without so much of a delay though.Pross said:Congestion on roads is caused by junctions not lack of road space. Away from junction the thing that causes a delay is some sort of obstruction along the lines of a collision or breakdown.
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To have your car parked on your drive, the house/street needs to have been designed less densely than otherwise to accommodate the space for the cars, thus being space inefficient. That all adds up.kingstongraham said:
It is not an obstruction in the manner of a collision or breakdown, it is just the way urban roads work.Pross said:
To an extent, that would come down to an obstruction. Although you can also argue it keeps vehicle speeds low in an urban environment. The bigger problem is that many drivers feel causing such inconvenience to motorists is a bad thing and it is better to park partially, or even fully, on the footway instead even when this often still means two cars can't pass.kingstongraham said:
Or cars parked on the road making it too narrow for two modern cars to pass each other.Pross said:Congestion on roads is caused by junctions not lack of road space. Away from junction the thing that causes a delay is some sort of obstruction along the lines of a collision or breakdown.
Clearly you can have a basement garage for example, but then again, that's a flat or a house that otherwise is given away to vehicles.
Space is a premium where a lot of people live and it will continue to become more sought after as the urbanisation continues.0 -
Here is a simple Google search for you.rick_chasey said:
I mean, it is literally more land efficient, for starters. Is Los Angeles your ideal city or something?First.Aspect said:
Calling rjs to the thread - we need someone qualifies to explain why building up isn't more resource efficient. RC won't believe anyone else.rick_chasey said:
That's where we're all headed, right? That is where all the trends point to. So you've got to build something around that, rather than just decry that you don't like it and pretend it's not happening already.pblakeney said:Ricktopia, with green spaces.
No thanks.
Once you've run out of energy to rubbish the articles (I estimate about half way down page 3), get back to me.
https://www.google.com/search?q=are+skyscrapers+more+space+efficient&oq=are+skyscrapers+more+space+efficient&aqs=chrome..69i57j0i546l3j0i30i546.25774j0j4&client=ms-android-ee-uk-revc&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-80
