The Big 'Let's sell our cars and take buses/ebikes instead' thread (warning: probably very dull)

rick_chasey

There are plenty of urban areas where it would make sense to use public transport/cycle, but the services and infrastructure are so useless very few people use them.

That's where the room for change is, and there are a lot of those places. The guy who chose a house half the size of the one he could have had, so he could walk to the train station rather than drive/cycle in, in one of the most unrepresentative towns when it comes to cycling, is not a good example to use!

focuszing723

The way things are going it looks like people will be priced out of new cars.

focuszing723

I keep forgetting though that many cars are leased.

focuszing723

https://www.jato.com/wp-content/uploads/European-new-car-registrations-H1-2022-by-Segment-2048x1052.png
Look at SUVs, crazy really, as efficient as a brick will the added weight.

Stevo_666

focuszing723 said:

The way things are going it looks like people will be priced out of new cars.

EVs certainly aren't cheap.

focuszing723

What the hell happened to the estate car?

Stevo_666

focuszing723 said:

What the hell happened to the estate car?

I've got one.

focuszing723

Stevo_666 said:

focuszing723 said:

The way things are going it looks like people will be priced out of new cars.

EVs certainly aren't cheap.

Yep, slap on an extra 8-10 grand on a general entry car. The cheap electricity benefit isn't there anymore either.

focuszing723

Cars need to be smaller and designed for efficiency. That's one thing with EV's due to range anxiety the importance of efficiency is made more apparent.

You'd have to say with those SUV figures this 'environmental concern' is for others to worry about as long as I've got mine.

focuszing723

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-FYljEmsJQ
This is a funny entertaining video, but shows the difference aerodynamic efficiency makes.

I will harp on about the Aptera later.

focuszing723

Stevo_666 said:

focuszing723 said:

What the hell happened to the estate car?

I've got one.

I think you have fair grounds to be desalinated from a planet destroyer.

City destroyer, Town?

kingstongraham

focuszing723 said:

Cars need to be smaller and designed for efficiency. That's one thing with EV's due to range anxiety the importance of efficiency is made more apparent.

You'd have to say with those SUV figures this 'environmental concern' is for others to worry about as long as I've got mine.

Even if it has a 1.2L engine?

Pross

focuszing723 said:

https://www.jato.com/wp-content/uploads/European-new-car-registrations-H1-2022-by-Segment-2048x1052.png
Look at SUVs, crazy really, as efficient as a brick will the added weight.

SUV covers such a big range in vehicle sizes though. Something like a Qashqai can be as efficient as a Ford Focus whereas a Range Rover won't be. The B and C segments that make up the large chunks on that graph are small and medium size. One of the most popular in the C range is the Mercedes GLA which gets 53.3mpg from a 2 litre diesel against 57.7mpg in the equivalent hatchback version so there is definitely a difference but it isn't huge.

I can never work out if it is customer demand pushing manufacturers towards building SUVs or if the lack of choice in large estate cars for those wanting a bit more space that drives people towards buying an SUV. One of the things putting me off the move towards an EV is the lack of large estate models. It seems to be a choice between saloons with limited load capacity or SUVs (and of them most are style of practicality).

pblakeney

Pross said:

...
I can never work out if it is customer demand pushing manufacturers towards building SUVs or if the lack of choice in large estate cars for those wanting a bit more space that drives people towards buying an SUV...

Most common reason given is the preferred higher position.
IMO a bad decision. Ruins the handling and gives no more space. An estate is better.

davebradswmb

kingstongraham said:

focuszing723 said:

Cars need to be smaller and designed for efficiency. That's one thing with EV's due to range anxiety the importance of efficiency is made more apparent.

You'd have to say with those SUV figures this 'environmental concern' is for others to worry about as long as I've got mine.

Even if it has a 1.2L engine?

An SUV with a 1.2 engine will still be less efficient that a "normal" car of similar interior dimensions with the same engine because it will be heavier and less aerodynamic.

Small engines don't always equate to more efficiency either, especially in the real world. Car makers produce cars with undersized engines because they can often get them to produce better figures in the official tests, but often in the real world drivers will not drive them optimally because they have such little power at low revs.

photonic69

Pross said:

focuszing723 said:

https://www.jato.com/wp-content/uploads/European-new-car-registrations-H1-2022-by-Segment-2048x1052.png
Look at SUVs, crazy really, as efficient as a brick will the added weight.

SUV covers such a big range in vehicle sizes though. Something like a Qashqai can be as efficient as a Ford Focus whereas a Range Rover won't be. The B and C segments that make up the large chunks on that graph are small and medium size. One of the most popular in the C range is the Mercedes GLA which gets 53.3mpg from a 2 litre diesel against 57.7mpg in the equivalent hatchback version so there is definitely a difference but it isn't huge.

I can never work out if it is customer demand pushing manufacturers towards building SUVs or if the lack of choice in large estate cars for those wanting a bit more space that drives people towards buying an SUV. One of the things putting me off the move towards an EV is the lack of large estate models. It seems to be a choice between saloons with limited load capacity or SUVs (and of them most are style of practicality).

Yeah, it's not really about the efficiency and the tailpipe emissions now as things are as good as they get with ICE, but more to do with particulates from tyres and brakes which are both much higher due to the fashion for big wheeled SUVs and the extra braking required for heavier EV s (some have regen braking which mitagates this a bit). All these particulates either go into the air or are washed into stream and rivers via road drainage.

There is no moral reason to buy an SUV.

Stevo_666

pblakeney said:

Pross said:

...
I can never work out if it is customer demand pushing manufacturers towards building SUVs or if the lack of choice in large estate cars for those wanting a bit more space that drives people towards buying an SUV...

Most common reason given is the preferred higher position.
IMO a bad decision. Ruins the handling and gives no more space. An estate is better.

Exactly, that's why I have mine. All the practicality (actually probably more) and better handling and performance than the SUV equivalent.

Stevo_666

focuszing723 said:

Stevo_666 said:

focuszing723 said:

What the hell happened to the estate car?

I've got one.

I think you have fair grounds to be desalinated from a planet destroyer.

City destroyer, Town?

Aww, boo hoo.

rjsterry

🔥Despoiler of Sevenoaks🔥 needs to go on a t-shirt.

Stevo_666

rjsterry said:

🔥Despoiler of Sevenoaks🔥 needs to go on a t-shirt.

A whole town is a bit ambitious, especially when there's competition - there are 2 new car dealers in town, one selling Astons and the other selling Ferraris - I might settle for the village...

Pross

rjsterry said:

🔥Despoiler of Sevenoaks🔥 needs to go on a t-shirt.

Or better still, on a big whale fin on the back of his car.

Pross

Stevo_666 said:

pblakeney said:

Pross said:

...
I can never work out if it is customer demand pushing manufacturers towards building SUVs or if the lack of choice in large estate cars for those wanting a bit more space that drives people towards buying an SUV...

Most common reason given is the preferred higher position.
IMO a bad decision. Ruins the handling and gives no more space. An estate is better.

Exactly, that's why I have mine. All the practicality (actually probably more) and better handling and performance than the SUV equivalent.

My Focus estate was definitely more practical than my Qashqai. The mother-in-law prefers the Qashqai though as it is easier for her to get in and out of with her mobility issues.

If I was buying something new now I'd probably be looking at something like an Ocatvia / Superb (or older 5 series tourer / A6 estate) or going fully practical with one of the various small van based cars which would be the best option with the dog.

Stevo_666

Pross said:

Stevo_666 said:

pblakeney said:

Pross said:

...
I can never work out if it is customer demand pushing manufacturers towards building SUVs or if the lack of choice in large estate cars for those wanting a bit more space that drives people towards buying an SUV...

Most common reason given is the preferred higher position.
IMO a bad decision. Ruins the handling and gives no more space. An estate is better.

Exactly, that's why I have mine. All the practicality (actually probably more) and better handling and performance than the SUV equivalent.

My Focus estate was definitely more practical than my Qashqai. The mother-in-law prefers the Qashqai though as it is easier for her to get in and out of with her mobility issues.

If I was buying something new now I'd probably be looking at something like an Ocatvia / Superb (or older 5 series tourer / A6 estate) or going fully practical with one of the various small van based cars which would be the best option with the dog.

All decent choices.

I get where you're coming from as we have dogs (although we usually use my OHs hatchback and put them on the back seat on towels/blankets). I also like being able to chuck my bike in the back without taking the wheel off.

Think I will hang onto mine for a while...

photonic69

Pross said:

Stevo_666 said:

pblakeney said:

Pross said:

...
I can never work out if it is customer demand pushing manufacturers towards building SUVs or if the lack of choice in large estate cars for those wanting a bit more space that drives people towards buying an SUV...

Most common reason given is the preferred higher position.
IMO a bad decision. Ruins the handling and gives no more space. An estate is better.

Exactly, that's why I have mine. All the practicality (actually probably more) and better handling and performance than the SUV equivalent.

My Focus estate was definitely more practical than my Qashqai. The mother-in-law prefers the Qashqai though as it is easier for her to get in and out of with her mobility issues.

If I was buying something new now I'd probably be looking at something like an Ocatvia / Superb (or older 5 series tourer / A6 estate) or going fully practical with one of the various small van based cars which would be the best option with the dog.

I love my Octavia. Best car I've ever owned.

"The Octavia hatch has a huge 590-litre boot that expands to 1,580 litres with the rear seats folded flat. The estate can handle 610 litres with the seats still in place, but really comes into its own with the 60:40 split rear bench folded flat – suddenly you’re in the removals business, with a remarkable 1,740-litres."

It's a huge boot. Really is.

whyamihere

photonic69 said:

Pross said:

Stevo_666 said:

pblakeney said:

Pross said:

...
I can never work out if it is customer demand pushing manufacturers towards building SUVs or if the lack of choice in large estate cars for those wanting a bit more space that drives people towards buying an SUV...

Most common reason given is the preferred higher position.
IMO a bad decision. Ruins the handling and gives no more space. An estate is better.

Exactly, that's why I have mine. All the practicality (actually probably more) and better handling and performance than the SUV equivalent.

My Focus estate was definitely more practical than my Qashqai. The mother-in-law prefers the Qashqai though as it is easier for her to get in and out of with her mobility issues.

If I was buying something new now I'd probably be looking at something like an Ocatvia / Superb (or older 5 series tourer / A6 estate) or going fully practical with one of the various small van based cars which would be the best option with the dog.

I love my Octavia. Best car I've ever owned.

"The Octavia hatch has a huge 590-litre boot that expands to 1,580 litres with the rear seats folded flat. The estate can handle 610 litres with the seats still in place, but really comes into its own with the 60:40 split rear bench folded flat – suddenly you’re in the removals business, with a remarkable 1,740-litres."

It's a huge boot. Really is.

I also have an Octavia estate and it's brilliant. Quick enough when you want it to be, sips fuel the rest of the time and it can fit a ridiculous amount of stuff in the boot. I bought mine new in 2019 and expect to have it until it dies.

Stevo_666

I wonder how many ebikes have that sort of boot capacity. Or how you could get on a bus carrying close to 2 cubic metres of your stuff.

TheBigBean

Stevo_666 said:

I wonder how many ebikes have that sort of boot capacity. Or how you could get on a bus carrying close to 2 cubic metres of your stuff.

How often do you need 2 cubic metres? We've discussed the Christmas tree purchase and toilet paper - are there other needs?

rjsterry

Stevo_666 said:

I wonder how many ebikes have that sort of boot capacity. Or how you could get on a bus carrying close to 2 cubic metres of your stuff.

I mean there are literally e-bike couriers in town that must be carrying close to 2m3.

https://www.zedify.co.uk/find-us/london/

First.Aspect

TheBigBean said:

Stevo_666 said:

I wonder how many ebikes have that sort of boot capacity. Or how you could get on a bus carrying close to 2 cubic metres of your stuff.

How often do you need 2 cubic metres? We've discussed the Christmas tree purchase and toilet paper - are there other needs?

Taking the Xmas tree to the tip?

whyamihere

TheBigBean said:

Stevo_666 said:

I wonder how many ebikes have that sort of boot capacity. Or how you could get on a bus carrying close to 2 cubic metres of your stuff.

How often do you need 2 cubic metres? We've discussed the Christmas tree purchase and toilet paper - are there other needs?

I pretty well fill mine somewhat regularly. We have a bit of a fixer-upper house, so it's carried at various times several rooms worth of flooring, plumbing supplies, building supplies, large-ish pieces of furniture, tip runs... In addition, multiple bikes on various occasions, and a fair few large child related items which can go in while carrying my wife and child at the same time. I could have hired a van for a lot of these if I had a smaller car/no car or had things delivered, but that's an expensive and inconvenient PITA.

Having said this, I recognise that having my own vehicle capable of doing this is a luxury, one which I probably wouldn't have if I lived in central London/Birmingham/Manchester etc. I also don't really travel at peak times as I mostly WFH, so don't spend much time stuck in traffic. I do walk/cycle to the local shops and use PT when suitable, but I don't see us ever getting to the point of private vehicle ownership not being a desirable thing outside of cities.