The Big 'Let's sell our cars and take buses/ebikes instead' thread (warning: probably very dull)
Comments
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You're equating driving to littering?TheBigBean said:
Just feels weird to me.rick_chasey said:
I like how everyone makes out i'm driving my car the whole time. I regularly don't go near it for a fortnight. It's literally growing moss in the window seals.TheBigBean said:
Whilst I understand the point you have made about the structure of the system, it does feel like you could do a bit more walking the walk.rick_chasey said:
Don't hate the player, hate the gamefocuszing723 said:You should get a fair amount for your Polo, given the strong new and used car market.
That's quite a few taxi trips and hire cars.
My entire point is that the system is *not set up* to avoid using the car.
So, I don't really understand why I would, in this system, avoid using the car?
I have no moral objection to the car. I recognise that the car cannot for reasons repeated ad-nauseum that cars can't be the future for various reasons, so it makes sense to prepare for that future now.
I remember a chap moaning to me in India about the state of India. How dirty it was with rubbish everywhere. He then threw some rubbish out the window. That was the system - it wasn't up to him to clean up the country as he felt someone else should.0 -
Clearly not. It's the 'the problem is too big for me to change on my own so why should I make any effort?' attitude. See also all the bollox about China being a much bigger emitter of CO2 so UK shouldn't bother making any efforts.rick_chasey said:
You're equating driving to littering?TheBigBean said:
Just feels weird to me.rick_chasey said:
I like how everyone makes out i'm driving my car the whole time. I regularly don't go near it for a fortnight. It's literally growing moss in the window seals.TheBigBean said:
Whilst I understand the point you have made about the structure of the system, it does feel like you could do a bit more walking the walk.rick_chasey said:
Don't hate the player, hate the gamefocuszing723 said:You should get a fair amount for your Polo, given the strong new and used car market.
That's quite a few taxi trips and hire cars.
My entire point is that the system is *not set up* to avoid using the car.
So, I don't really understand why I would, in this system, avoid using the car?
I have no moral objection to the car. I recognise that the car cannot for reasons repeated ad-nauseum that cars can't be the future for various reasons, so it makes sense to prepare for that future now.
I remember a chap moaning to me in India about the state of India. How dirty it was with rubbish everywhere. He then threw some rubbish out the window. That was the system - it wasn't up to him to clean up the country as he felt someone else should.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Yes. Trends. People change as they age. Their habits too. Future teenagers will have a low appetite for the car but I wager the current teenager will be driving in 10 years time.rick_chasey said:
Trends my friend, trends.pblakeney said:
The paragraphs that you shared are city centric so I thought I'd show that I am not unsympathetic. The report still appears irrelevant on a countrywide basis. Miles are up.rick_chasey said:
My brain is clearly wired differently as I don't really see what your own experience has anything to do with the above.pblakeney said:Yeah well I drove zero miles when I lived in cities. Maybe I was a trend setter.
I'll pay attention when miles driven drop. Those teenagers will age and drive.
We all understand % changes don't we? Maybe we don't.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
pblakeney said:
Yes. Trends. People change as they age. Their habits too. Future teenagers will have a low appetite for the car but I wager the current teenager will be driving in 10 years time.rick_chasey said:
Trends my friend, trends.pblakeney said:
The paragraphs that you shared are city centric so I thought I'd show that I am not unsympathetic. The report still appears irrelevant on a countrywide basis. Miles are up.rick_chasey said:
My brain is clearly wired differently as I don't really see what your own experience has anything to do with the above.pblakeney said:Yeah well I drove zero miles when I lived in cities. Maybe I was a trend setter.
I'll pay attention when miles driven drop. Those teenagers will age and drive.
We all understand % changes don't we? Maybe we don't.Between 1990 and 2017 the distance driven by teenage drivers in America declined by 35%, and those aged 20-34 by 18%. It is entirely older drivers who account for still increasing traffic, as baby-boomers who grew up with cars do not give them up in retirement.
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Is it controversial to say I don't think this is entirely bollox?rjsterry said:
Clearly not. It's the 'the problem is too big for me to change on my own so why should I make any effort?' attitude. See also all the bollox about China being a much bigger emitter of CO2 so UK shouldn't bother making any efforts.rick_chasey said:
You're equating driving to littering?TheBigBean said:
Just feels weird to me.rick_chasey said:
I like how everyone makes out i'm driving my car the whole time. I regularly don't go near it for a fortnight. It's literally growing moss in the window seals.TheBigBean said:
Whilst I understand the point you have made about the structure of the system, it does feel like you could do a bit more walking the walk.rick_chasey said:
Don't hate the player, hate the gamefocuszing723 said:You should get a fair amount for your Polo, given the strong new and used car market.
That's quite a few taxi trips and hire cars.
My entire point is that the system is *not set up* to avoid using the car.
So, I don't really understand why I would, in this system, avoid using the car?
I have no moral objection to the car. I recognise that the car cannot for reasons repeated ad-nauseum that cars can't be the future for various reasons, so it makes sense to prepare for that future now.
I remember a chap moaning to me in India about the state of India. How dirty it was with rubbish everywhere. He then threw some rubbish out the window. That was the system - it wasn't up to him to clean up the country as he felt someone else should.0 -
Yes.kingstongraham said:
Is it controversial to say I don't think this is entirely bollox?rjsterry said:
Clearly not. It's the 'the problem is too big for me to change on my own so why should I make any effort?' attitude. See also all the bollox about China being a much bigger emitter of CO2 so UK shouldn't bother making any efforts.rick_chasey said:
You're equating driving to littering?TheBigBean said:
Just feels weird to me.rick_chasey said:
I like how everyone makes out i'm driving my car the whole time. I regularly don't go near it for a fortnight. It's literally growing moss in the window seals.TheBigBean said:
Whilst I understand the point you have made about the structure of the system, it does feel like you could do a bit more walking the walk.rick_chasey said:
Don't hate the player, hate the gamefocuszing723 said:You should get a fair amount for your Polo, given the strong new and used car market.
That's quite a few taxi trips and hire cars.
My entire point is that the system is *not set up* to avoid using the car.
So, I don't really understand why I would, in this system, avoid using the car?
I have no moral objection to the car. I recognise that the car cannot for reasons repeated ad-nauseum that cars can't be the future for various reasons, so it makes sense to prepare for that future now.
I remember a chap moaning to me in India about the state of India. How dirty it was with rubbish everywhere. He then threw some rubbish out the window. That was the system - it wasn't up to him to clean up the country as he felt someone else should.0 -
kingstongraham said:pblakeney said:
Yes. Trends. People change as they age. Their habits too. Future teenagers will have a low appetite for the car but I wager the current teenager will be driving in 10 years time.rick_chasey said:
Trends my friend, trends.pblakeney said:
The paragraphs that you shared are city centric so I thought I'd show that I am not unsympathetic. The report still appears irrelevant on a countrywide basis. Miles are up.rick_chasey said:
My brain is clearly wired differently as I don't really see what your own experience has anything to do with the above.pblakeney said:Yeah well I drove zero miles when I lived in cities. Maybe I was a trend setter.
I'll pay attention when miles driven drop. Those teenagers will age and drive.
We all understand % changes don't we? Maybe we don't.Between 1990 and 2017 the distance driven by teenage drivers in America declined by 35%, and those aged 20-34 by 18%. It is entirely older drivers who account for still increasing traffic, as baby-boomers who grew up with cars do not give them up in retirement.
I still maintain that today's teenagers are tomorrow's grumpy old gits.
Anecdotally all my grand children are looking forward to getting cars.The above may be fact, or fiction, I may be serious, I may be jesting.
I am not sure. You have no chance.Veronese68 wrote:PB is the most sensible person on here.0 -
For emissions that have a global impact what's the point in the UK going overboard to reduce our 1% of global emissions if China doesn't do anything about its 30%? To make us feel better about ourselves?TheBigBean said:
Yes.kingstongraham said:
Is it controversial to say I don't think this is entirely bollox?rjsterry said:
Clearly not. It's the 'the problem is too big for me to change on my own so why should I make any effort?' attitude. See also all the bollox about China being a much bigger emitter of CO2 so UK shouldn't bother making any efforts.rick_chasey said:
You're equating driving to littering?TheBigBean said:
Just feels weird to me.rick_chasey said:
I like how everyone makes out i'm driving my car the whole time. I regularly don't go near it for a fortnight. It's literally growing moss in the window seals.TheBigBean said:
Whilst I understand the point you have made about the structure of the system, it does feel like you could do a bit more walking the walk.rick_chasey said:
Don't hate the player, hate the gamefocuszing723 said:You should get a fair amount for your Polo, given the strong new and used car market.
That's quite a few taxi trips and hire cars.
My entire point is that the system is *not set up* to avoid using the car.
So, I don't really understand why I would, in this system, avoid using the car?
I have no moral objection to the car. I recognise that the car cannot for reasons repeated ad-nauseum that cars can't be the future for various reasons, so it makes sense to prepare for that future now.
I remember a chap moaning to me in India about the state of India. How dirty it was with rubbish everywhere. He then threw some rubbish out the window. That was the system - it wasn't up to him to clean up the country as he felt someone else should.0 -
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For clarity, reduction in energy usage, reduction in locally harmful emissions and having more pleasant places to live are reasons to change behaviour. I just think we're all pissing in the wind regarding CO2.0
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We are in absolutely no danger of 'going overboard'. We can barely bring ourselves to prioritise double glazing over 'heritage issues'. And China is doing something about it's 30%. Which per capita is still well down the table.kingstongraham said:
For emissions that have a global impact what's the point in the UK going overboard to reduce our 1% of global emissions if China doesn't do anything about its 30%? To make us feel better about ourselves?TheBigBean said:
Yes.kingstongraham said:
Is it controversial to say I don't think this is entirely bollox?rjsterry said:
Clearly not. It's the 'the problem is too big for me to change on my own so why should I make any effort?' attitude. See also all the bollox about China being a much bigger emitter of CO2 so UK shouldn't bother making any efforts.rick_chasey said:
You're equating driving to littering?TheBigBean said:
Just feels weird to me.rick_chasey said:
I like how everyone makes out i'm driving my car the whole time. I regularly don't go near it for a fortnight. It's literally growing moss in the window seals.TheBigBean said:
Whilst I understand the point you have made about the structure of the system, it does feel like you could do a bit more walking the walk.rick_chasey said:
Don't hate the player, hate the gamefocuszing723 said:You should get a fair amount for your Polo, given the strong new and used car market.
That's quite a few taxi trips and hire cars.
My entire point is that the system is *not set up* to avoid using the car.
So, I don't really understand why I would, in this system, avoid using the car?
I have no moral objection to the car. I recognise that the car cannot for reasons repeated ad-nauseum that cars can't be the future for various reasons, so it makes sense to prepare for that future now.
I remember a chap moaning to me in India about the state of India. How dirty it was with rubbish everywhere. He then threw some rubbish out the window. That was the system - it wasn't up to him to clean up the country as he felt someone else should.
Given our smaller population and temperate climate we have one of the easiest wins in terms of reductions.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
Easy wins, great. And if they result in something that is useful like reduced energy consumption then double great. But you see the graph, right?rjsterry said:
We are in absolutely no danger of 'going overboard'. We can barely bring ourselves to prioritise double glazing over 'heritage issues'. And China is doing something about it's 30%. Which per capita is still well down the table.kingstongraham said:
For emissions that have a global impact what's the point in the UK going overboard to reduce our 1% of global emissions if China doesn't do anything about its 30%? To make us feel better about ourselves?TheBigBean said:
Yes.kingstongraham said:
Is it controversial to say I don't think this is entirely bollox?rjsterry said:
Clearly not. It's the 'the problem is too big for me to change on my own so why should I make any effort?' attitude. See also all the bollox about China being a much bigger emitter of CO2 so UK shouldn't bother making any efforts.rick_chasey said:
You're equating driving to littering?TheBigBean said:
Just feels weird to me.rick_chasey said:
I like how everyone makes out i'm driving my car the whole time. I regularly don't go near it for a fortnight. It's literally growing moss in the window seals.TheBigBean said:
Whilst I understand the point you have made about the structure of the system, it does feel like you could do a bit more walking the walk.rick_chasey said:
Don't hate the player, hate the gamefocuszing723 said:You should get a fair amount for your Polo, given the strong new and used car market.
That's quite a few taxi trips and hire cars.
My entire point is that the system is *not set up* to avoid using the car.
So, I don't really understand why I would, in this system, avoid using the car?
I have no moral objection to the car. I recognise that the car cannot for reasons repeated ad-nauseum that cars can't be the future for various reasons, so it makes sense to prepare for that future now.
I remember a chap moaning to me in India about the state of India. How dirty it was with rubbish everywhere. He then threw some rubbish out the window. That was the system - it wasn't up to him to clean up the country as he felt someone else should.
Given our smaller population and temperate climate we have one of the easiest wins in terms of reductions.0 -
If you want an SUV just get one, you can still make out you ride a tandem on here.rick_chasey said:
You're equating driving to littering?TheBigBean said:
Just feels weird to me.rick_chasey said:
I like how everyone makes out i'm driving my car the whole time. I regularly don't go near it for a fortnight. It's literally growing moss in the window seals.TheBigBean said:
Whilst I understand the point you have made about the structure of the system, it does feel like you could do a bit more walking the walk.rick_chasey said:
Don't hate the player, hate the gamefocuszing723 said:You should get a fair amount for your Polo, given the strong new and used car market.
That's quite a few taxi trips and hire cars.
My entire point is that the system is *not set up* to avoid using the car.
So, I don't really understand why I would, in this system, avoid using the car?
I have no moral objection to the car. I recognise that the car cannot for reasons repeated ad-nauseum that cars can't be the future for various reasons, so it makes sense to prepare for that future now.
I remember a chap moaning to me in India about the state of India. How dirty it was with rubbish everywhere. He then threw some rubbish out the window. That was the system - it wasn't up to him to clean up the country as he felt someone else should.0 -
I mean surely this sparse car use is, whilst not ideal, a lot closer to the ideal (at least the ideal that you are arguing for)rick_chasey said:
I like how everyone makes out i'm driving my car the whole time. I regularly don't go near it for a fortnight. It's literally growing moss in the window seals.TheBigBean said:
Whilst I understand the point you have made about the structure of the system, it does feel like you could do a bit more walking the walk.rick_chasey said:
Don't hate the player, hate the gamefocuszing723 said:You should get a fair amount for your Polo, given the strong new and used car market.
That's quite a few taxi trips and hire cars.
My entire point is that the system is *not set up* to avoid using the car.
So, I don't really understand why I would, in this system, avoid using the car?
I have no moral objection to the car. I recognise that the car cannot for reasons repeated ad-nauseum be the future for various reasons, so it makes sense to prepare for that future now.
But no, we should use cars less apparently means we should all just give up our cars.0 -
Look at the per capita graph. China is way lower. They just have a lot of people. If they are not to end up with UK levels of per capita emissions - or God help us, US levels - we need to be showing what can be done as quickly as possible. UK is a pretty good country to use as a prototype.kingstongraham said:
Easy wins, great. And if they result in something that is useful like reduced energy consumption then double great. But you see the graph, right?rjsterry said:
We are in absolutely no danger of 'going overboard'. We can barely bring ourselves to prioritise double glazing over 'heritage issues'. And China is doing something about it's 30%. Which per capita is still well down the table.kingstongraham said:
For emissions that have a global impact what's the point in the UK going overboard to reduce our 1% of global emissions if China doesn't do anything about its 30%? To make us feel better about ourselves?TheBigBean said:
Yes.kingstongraham said:
Is it controversial to say I don't think this is entirely bollox?rjsterry said:
Clearly not. It's the 'the problem is too big for me to change on my own so why should I make any effort?' attitude. See also all the bollox about China being a much bigger emitter of CO2 so UK shouldn't bother making any efforts.rick_chasey said:
You're equating driving to littering?TheBigBean said:
Just feels weird to me.rick_chasey said:
I like how everyone makes out i'm driving my car the whole time. I regularly don't go near it for a fortnight. It's literally growing moss in the window seals.TheBigBean said:
Whilst I understand the point you have made about the structure of the system, it does feel like you could do a bit more walking the walk.rick_chasey said:
Don't hate the player, hate the gamefocuszing723 said:You should get a fair amount for your Polo, given the strong new and used car market.
That's quite a few taxi trips and hire cars.
My entire point is that the system is *not set up* to avoid using the car.
So, I don't really understand why I would, in this system, avoid using the car?
I have no moral objection to the car. I recognise that the car cannot for reasons repeated ad-nauseum that cars can't be the future for various reasons, so it makes sense to prepare for that future now.
I remember a chap moaning to me in India about the state of India. How dirty it was with rubbish everywhere. He then threw some rubbish out the window. That was the system - it wasn't up to him to clean up the country as he felt someone else should.
Given our smaller population and temperate climate we have one of the easiest wins in terms of reductions.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
rjsterry said:
Look at the per capita graph. China is way lower. They just have a lot of people. If they are not to end up with UK levels of per capita emissions - or God help us, US levels - we need to be showing what can be done as quickly as possible. UK is a pretty good country to use as a prototype.kingstongraham said:
Easy wins, great. And if they result in something that is useful like reduced energy consumption then double great. But you see the graph, right?rjsterry said:
We are in absolutely no danger of 'going overboard'. We can barely bring ourselves to prioritise double glazing over 'heritage issues'. And China is doing something about it's 30%. Which per capita is still well down the table.kingstongraham said:
For emissions that have a global impact what's the point in the UK going overboard to reduce our 1% of global emissions if China doesn't do anything about its 30%? To make us feel better about ourselves?TheBigBean said:
Yes.kingstongraham said:
Is it controversial to say I don't think this is entirely bollox?rjsterry said:
Clearly not. It's the 'the problem is too big for me to change on my own so why should I make any effort?' attitude. See also all the bollox about China being a much bigger emitter of CO2 so UK shouldn't bother making any efforts.rick_chasey said:
You're equating driving to littering?TheBigBean said:
Just feels weird to me.rick_chasey said:
I like how everyone makes out i'm driving my car the whole time. I regularly don't go near it for a fortnight. It's literally growing moss in the window seals.TheBigBean said:
Whilst I understand the point you have made about the structure of the system, it does feel like you could do a bit more walking the walk.rick_chasey said:
Don't hate the player, hate the gamefocuszing723 said:You should get a fair amount for your Polo, given the strong new and used car market.
That's quite a few taxi trips and hire cars.
My entire point is that the system is *not set up* to avoid using the car.
So, I don't really understand why I would, in this system, avoid using the car?
I have no moral objection to the car. I recognise that the car cannot for reasons repeated ad-nauseum that cars can't be the future for various reasons, so it makes sense to prepare for that future now.
I remember a chap moaning to me in India about the state of India. How dirty it was with rubbish everywhere. He then threw some rubbish out the window. That was the system - it wasn't up to him to clean up the country as he felt someone else should.
Given our smaller population and temperate climate we have one of the easiest wins in terms of reductions.
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Amazing what you can do when you export your dirty manufacturing to other countries.1
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Great, so we are now doing a bit better than China. Just the following list to work through before we get to China.kingstongraham said:rjsterry said:
Look at the per capita graph. China is way lower. They just have a lot of people. If they are not to end up with UK levels of per capita emissions - or God help us, US levels - we need to be showing what can be done as quickly as possible. UK is a pretty good country to use as a prototype.kingstongraham said:
Easy wins, great. And if they result in something that is useful like reduced energy consumption then double great. But you see the graph, right?rjsterry said:
We are in absolutely no danger of 'going overboard'. We can barely bring ourselves to prioritise double glazing over 'heritage issues'. And China is doing something about it's 30%. Which per capita is still well down the table.kingstongraham said:
For emissions that have a global impact what's the point in the UK going overboard to reduce our 1% of global emissions if China doesn't do anything about its 30%? To make us feel better about ourselves?TheBigBean said:
Yes.kingstongraham said:
Is it controversial to say I don't think this is entirely bollox?rjsterry said:
Clearly not. It's the 'the problem is too big for me to change on my own so why should I make any effort?' attitude. See also all the bollox about China being a much bigger emitter of CO2 so UK shouldn't bother making any efforts.rick_chasey said:
You're equating driving to littering?TheBigBean said:
Just feels weird to me.rick_chasey said:
I like how everyone makes out i'm driving my car the whole time. I regularly don't go near it for a fortnight. It's literally growing moss in the window seals.TheBigBean said:
Whilst I understand the point you have made about the structure of the system, it does feel like you could do a bit more walking the walk.rick_chasey said:
Don't hate the player, hate the gamefocuszing723 said:You should get a fair amount for your Polo, given the strong new and used car market.
That's quite a few taxi trips and hire cars.
My entire point is that the system is *not set up* to avoid using the car.
So, I don't really understand why I would, in this system, avoid using the car?
I have no moral objection to the car. I recognise that the car cannot for reasons repeated ad-nauseum that cars can't be the future for various reasons, so it makes sense to prepare for that future now.
I remember a chap moaning to me in India about the state of India. How dirty it was with rubbish everywhere. He then threw some rubbish out the window. That was the system - it wasn't up to him to clean up the country as he felt someone else should.
Given our smaller population and temperate climate we have one of the easiest wins in terms of reductions.
New Caledonia
Trinidad and Tobago
Bahrain
Kuwait
United Arab Emirates
Gibraltar
Brunei
Saudi Arabia
Oman
Curacao
Australia
Canada
Kazakhstan
United States
Turkmenistan
Luxembourg
Seychelles
South Korea
Mongolia
Taiwan
Russia
Estonia
Falkland Islands
Singapore
Iceland
Czech Republic
Netherlands
Japan
Greenland
Serbia
Montenegro
Iran1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
In 2010, 1 MW of solar panels cost in the region of £3m. 10 years later just before Covid struck, the price had dropped to less than £200k. That evolution in price happened because wealthier countries agreed a 2020 target and subsidised the deployment of renewable energy on a scale that forced prices down.kingstongraham said:
For emissions that have a global impact what's the point in the UK going overboard to reduce our 1% of global emissions if China doesn't do anything about its 30%? To make us feel better about ourselves?TheBigBean said:
Yes.kingstongraham said:
Is it controversial to say I don't think this is entirely bollox?rjsterry said:
Clearly not. It's the 'the problem is too big for me to change on my own so why should I make any effort?' attitude. See also all the bollox about China being a much bigger emitter of CO2 so UK shouldn't bother making any efforts.rick_chasey said:
You're equating driving to littering?TheBigBean said:
Just feels weird to me.rick_chasey said:
I like how everyone makes out i'm driving my car the whole time. I regularly don't go near it for a fortnight. It's literally growing moss in the window seals.TheBigBean said:
Whilst I understand the point you have made about the structure of the system, it does feel like you could do a bit more walking the walk.rick_chasey said:
Don't hate the player, hate the gamefocuszing723 said:You should get a fair amount for your Polo, given the strong new and used car market.
That's quite a few taxi trips and hire cars.
My entire point is that the system is *not set up* to avoid using the car.
So, I don't really understand why I would, in this system, avoid using the car?
I have no moral objection to the car. I recognise that the car cannot for reasons repeated ad-nauseum that cars can't be the future for various reasons, so it makes sense to prepare for that future now.
I remember a chap moaning to me in India about the state of India. How dirty it was with rubbish everywhere. He then threw some rubbish out the window. That was the system - it wasn't up to him to clean up the country as he felt someone else should.
Now when any country in the world looks at building a power station, solar power is likely to be one of the cheapest ways of doing it on a per MWh basis. For example, there is just no point in a country like Zambia doing anything else.
The story is the same for wind. Offshore wind is likely to be the cheapest way to generate electricity in the UK. Just think about what has been achieved in the last 10 years. Who would have thought that wind turbines the height of the Eifel tower could successfully be built at sea and 100 miles out? Another technology that can be deployed around the world.
To achieve net zero there are many more pieces of the puzzle that need to be solved. There are no gas power stations with carbon capture. It's theoretically possible to build them, but someone needs to do it. There are no massive long term storage facilities such as compressed air or hyrdogen. Again, they are theoretically possible, but someone needs to do it.
Similarly, battery technology, in particular sodium batteries, needs to evolve.
We've also had the efuel discussion on here recently. Another technology that may be successful.
Which countries are best placed to lead the way with all these technologies which will then be available to the rest of the world?
Furthermore, China has the most renewable energy in the world, but even if China insisted on using coal forever, they would likely face carbon border taxes, so it would not be economic for them to continue to do so.
All of which is why it is not helpful to worry about old tech being used in less developed countries.
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My entire point is the system needs to change. I can’t build new railroads or magic up bus stops or well thought out bike lanes.rjsterry said:
Clearly not. It's the 'the problem is too big for me to change on my own so why should I make any effort?' attitude. See also all the bollox about China being a much bigger emitter of CO2 so UK shouldn't bother making any efforts.rick_chasey said:
You're equating driving to littering?TheBigBean said:
Just feels weird to me.rick_chasey said:
I like how everyone makes out i'm driving my car the whole time. I regularly don't go near it for a fortnight. It's literally growing moss in the window seals.TheBigBean said:
Whilst I understand the point you have made about the structure of the system, it does feel like you could do a bit more walking the walk.rick_chasey said:
Don't hate the player, hate the gamefocuszing723 said:You should get a fair amount for your Polo, given the strong new and used car market.
That's quite a few taxi trips and hire cars.
My entire point is that the system is *not set up* to avoid using the car.
So, I don't really understand why I would, in this system, avoid using the car?
I have no moral objection to the car. I recognise that the car cannot for reasons repeated ad-nauseum that cars can't be the future for various reasons, so it makes sense to prepare for that future now.
I remember a chap moaning to me in India about the state of India. How dirty it was with rubbish everywhere. He then threw some rubbish out the window. That was the system - it wasn't up to him to clean up the country as he felt someone else should.
How can I use a non-existent facilities to wean myself off the remainder of my car travel?
I already use my bike for all but the longest journeys, and I already commute by train. What am I supposed to be doing in order for my argument to be more credible?
The entire point that even *I* use a car from time to time - that’s how car centric the system is.
I have literally chosen to live in s smaller house than I’d like so that I can walk to the train station!0 -
You were the one who told me to go look at it. Just did what I was asked and you're still not happy.rjsterry said:
Great, so we are now doing a bit better than China. Just the following list to work through before we get to China.kingstongraham said:rjsterry said:
Look at the per capita graph. China is way lower. They just have a lot of people. If they are not to end up with UK levels of per capita emissions - or God help us, US levels - we need to be showing what can be done as quickly as possible. UK is a pretty good country to use as a prototype.kingstongraham said:
Easy wins, great. And if they result in something that is useful like reduced energy consumption then double great. But you see the graph, right?rjsterry said:
We are in absolutely no danger of 'going overboard'. We can barely bring ourselves to prioritise double glazing over 'heritage issues'. And China is doing something about it's 30%. Which per capita is still well down the table.kingstongraham said:
For emissions that have a global impact what's the point in the UK going overboard to reduce our 1% of global emissions if China doesn't do anything about its 30%? To make us feel better about ourselves?TheBigBean said:
Yes.kingstongraham said:
Is it controversial to say I don't think this is entirely bollox?rjsterry said:
Clearly not. It's the 'the problem is too big for me to change on my own so why should I make any effort?' attitude. See also all the bollox about China being a much bigger emitter of CO2 so UK shouldn't bother making any efforts.rick_chasey said:
You're equating driving to littering?TheBigBean said:
Just feels weird to me.rick_chasey said:
I like how everyone makes out i'm driving my car the whole time. I regularly don't go near it for a fortnight. It's literally growing moss in the window seals.TheBigBean said:
Whilst I understand the point you have made about the structure of the system, it does feel like you could do a bit more walking the walk.rick_chasey said:
Don't hate the player, hate the gamefocuszing723 said:You should get a fair amount for your Polo, given the strong new and used car market.
That's quite a few taxi trips and hire cars.
My entire point is that the system is *not set up* to avoid using the car.
So, I don't really understand why I would, in this system, avoid using the car?
I have no moral objection to the car. I recognise that the car cannot for reasons repeated ad-nauseum that cars can't be the future for various reasons, so it makes sense to prepare for that future now.
I remember a chap moaning to me in India about the state of India. How dirty it was with rubbish everywhere. He then threw some rubbish out the window. That was the system - it wasn't up to him to clean up the country as he felt someone else should.
Given our smaller population and temperate climate we have one of the easiest wins in terms of reductions.
New Caledonia
Trinidad and Tobago
Bahrain
Kuwait
United Arab Emirates
Gibraltar
Brunei
Saudi Arabia
Oman
Curacao
Australia
Canada
Kazakhstan
United States
Turkmenistan
Luxembourg
Seychelles
South Korea
Mongolia
Taiwan
Russia
Estonia
Falkland Islands
Singapore
Iceland
Czech Republic
Netherlands
Japan
Greenland
Serbia
Montenegro
Iran
Your list does kind of reinforce my thinking.0 -
You could use a taxi and hire a car for long trip. There is an alternative for you.0
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You remind me of King Charles. Doesn't walk the walk.0
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who?focuszing723 said:You remind me of Prince Charles. Doesn't walk the walk.
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That’s too expensive!focuszing723 said:You could use a taxi and hire a car for long trip. There is an alternative for you.
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If I didn't have dogs, I'd probably just use a car share scheme rather than owning.0
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Yep, I forgot he's been upgraded.kingstongraham said:
who?focuszing723 said:You remind me of Prince Charles. Doesn't walk the walk.
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Surely you'd get a fair chunk for you're car then there are the costs of keeping it on the road. You've already said you don't use it much.rick_chasey said:
That’s too expensive!focuszing723 said:You could use a taxi and hire a car for long trip. There is an alternative for you.
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Not sure you quite appreciate how expensive taxis & rentals are nowadays.focuszing723 said:
Surely you'd get a fair chunk for you're car then there are the costs of keeping it on the road. You've already said you don't use it much.rick_chasey said:
That’s too expensive!focuszing723 said:You could use a taxi and hire a car for long trip. There is an alternative for you.
I know a millionaire who does that. Alas, that’s not me.0
